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Would you renounce your citizenship to pay less tax?

  • #21
  • Sep 2, 2018 10:14am Sep 2, 2018 10:14am
Quoting richyRich27
You're right. I definitely believe NOBODY will be there to take care of me in my old age...it will be a case of, when you run out of money you die. I dont plan on running out of money. My main trading goal is a couple of million + bank interest anything I make more than that is for hookers and vodka.
Think of it this way; How much money do you need to make to live the rest of your life, the way you want to live, and at the same time take care of the the future of your kids and family? Now, think of that number again, only with no tax on your income... All of a sudden it seems feasible...
  • #22
  • Sep 2, 2018 10:21am Sep 2, 2018 10:21am
Quoting richyRich27
You're right. I definitely believe NOBODY will be there to take care of me in my old age...it will be a case of, when you run out of money you die. I dont plan on running out of money. My main trading goal is a couple of million + bank interest anything I make more than that is for hookers and vodka.
as an oz you dont pay taxes in au if you live outside au
  • #23
  • Sep 2, 2018 10:24am Sep 2, 2018 10:24am
All I know is that there is NO WAY the pension will exist within a decade. If you dont take your future firmly in hand and stop praying the government will help, you will find yourself eating cat food under a bridge somewhere.
  • #24
  • Sep 2, 2018 10:27am Sep 2, 2018 10:27am
Quoting alphadude
{quote} as an oz you dont pay taxes in au if you live outside au
again I dont think thats true mate. Unless you have a new citizenship, you could make your income on mount everest and you are still liable for au taxes
  • #25
  • Sep 2, 2018 10:29am Sep 2, 2018 10:29am
but I could be wrong do you have a link?
  • #26
  • Sep 2, 2018 10:40am Sep 2, 2018 10:40am
As far as I understand the worldwide tax system, and having a few passports myself and having lived and worked >1 year in a handful of countries on different continents, ONLY the USA have taxes based on citizenship, that is if you are a US citizen living abroad, you still pay taxes to the uncle.
Every other country has a tax system based on residence: you pay taxes where you live, whatever your nationality.
So unless you are american, there is no point in giving up your nationality to pay less taxes, just move to another country.

Although having the nationality of the country you are living in usually makes a lot of admin processes easier.... but that is simply a reason to take a new nationality, not give up your original one.

Edit: after a quick research, it seems that Eritrea also have some kind of citizenship-based taxation system.
see: http://www.renunciationguide.com/citizenship-taxation-and-expatriation-background-and-history/citizenship-based-taxation-international-comparison/
  • #27
  • Sep 2, 2018 10:50am Sep 2, 2018 10:50am
Quoting ForeverNewb
As far as I understand the worldwide tax system, and having a few passports myself and having lived and worked >1 year in a handful of countries on different continents, ONLY the USA have taxes based on citizenship, that is if you are a US citizen living abroad, you still pay taxes to the uncle. Every other country has a tax system based on residence: you pay taxes where you live, whatever your nationality. So unless you are american, there is no point in giving up your nationality to pay less taxes, just move to another country. Although having...

Yes, I believe you are correct. So, unless you are a US citizen, all you need to do is relocate permanently to a more sensible tax regime.
  • #28
  • Sep 2, 2018 10:55am Sep 2, 2018 10:55am
Quoting ForeverNewb
As far as I understand the worldwide tax system, and having a few passports myself and having lived and worked >1 year in a handful of countries on different continents, ONLY the USA have taxes based on citizenship, that is if you are a US citizen living abroad, you still pay taxes to the uncle. Every other country has a tax system based on residence: you pay taxes where you live, whatever your nationality. So unless you are american, there is no point in giving up your nationality to pay less taxes, just move to another country. Although having...

well blow me down I have been watching too many american youtubes on this topic. sorry to alphadude and i guess this thread is kinda bogus now except the wiki list of tax countries. Im glad i learned this. thanks.
  • #29
  • Sep 2, 2018 10:57am Sep 2, 2018 10:57am
question, but what if the slippery trader wishes to pay tax in Macau, but spend most of his time in thailand or Bali?
  • #30
  • Sep 2, 2018 11:04am Sep 2, 2018 11:04am
Quoting richyRich27
{quote} well blow me down I have been watching too many american youtubes on this topic. sorry to alphadude and i guess this thread is kinda bogus now except the wiki list of tax countries. Im glad i learned this. thanks.
glad u learned new tax tricks. lots of aussies living in Asia are there for tax purposes
  • #31
  • Edited 11:28am Sep 2, 2018 11:17am | Edited 11:28am
Quote
"
Going overseas
If you remain an Australian resident overseas:

  1. You must lodge an Australian tax return and declare all your foreign employment income, including any exempt income.
  2. You must declare that income even if tax was taken out in the country where you earned it.
  3. You can lodge your return online from overseas.
  4. We recommend you log in to your account and turn off the myGov security code featureExternal Link (https://my.gov.au/mygov/content/html/help.html) before you lose access to your Australian mobile number. If you have access to your number overseas, you can keep this feature turned on.

If your residency status changes, your tax situation will change in a number of ways."

"
If you’ve paid foreign tax on employment income or capital gains in another country, you may be entitled to an Australian foreign income tax offset.
To be entitled to an offset:

  1. You must have actually paid an amount of foreign income tax.
  2. You must include the income or gain on which you paid foreign income tax in your assessable income for Australian income tax purposes."

http://www.renunciationguide.com/citizenship-taxation-and-expatriation-background-and-history/citizenship-based-taxation-international-comparison/

Essentially saying, unless you pay income tax in the other country and is at the same rate as australlia you wont have to pay income tax but you will still have to pay.

Example you earn 100k in some country. In the country you're in the tax rate is 15%, but in Australlia (not sure rate, just an example) its 30%, you would get exempt for 15k and have to pay the other 15k. ITs the same in Canada.


You don't like incorporating, but its one of the best ways to reduce your tax rate, at least in Canada. Register a LLP (limited liability partnership), then start a business in the country your trading is located in, have the LLP purchase the business (simple book keeping stuff). Then just take dividends. Dividends get taxed at a much lower rate.

In Canada their is a number of rules you have to follow but your corporate tax rate is much lower as are most dividend tax rates.
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #32
  • Sep 2, 2018 11:24am Sep 2, 2018 11:24am
Thanks COGS

what really pisses me of is tax is assumed you open some coffee shop or in some way use a countries roads and infrastructure to take money out of the economy.

whereas trading, you do none of that, you need no government services and no money is taken from its economy.

traders should pay like 10% tax max
we dont take money out of the economy pool, we bring money from outside the country into our country, we should be paid by gov to do that not pay tax
  • #33
  • Sep 2, 2018 11:32am Sep 2, 2018 11:32am
...back to exploring citizenship options.
  • #34
  • Sep 2, 2018 11:36am Sep 2, 2018 11:36am
Quoting richyRich27
Thanks COGS what really pisses me of is tax is assumed you open some coffee shop or in some way use a countries roads and infrastructure to take money out of the economy. whereas trading, you do none of that, you need no government services and no money is taken from its economy. traders should pay like 10% tax max we dont take money out of the economy pool, we bring money from outside the country into our country, we should be paid by gov to do that not pay tax

Well you could just move your money around abroad, never report and probably never get caught. Buy real estate or bonds in some country. Have them held in a foreign bank account.

Its not until you bring the money into a country over x amount that it raises alarm bells. In Canada its like this.

Quote
"Reporting entities must report only EFTs of $10,000 or more. They must also report two or more EFTs of less than $10,000 each that are made within 24 consecutive hours by or on behalf of the same individual or entity when they total $10,000 or more, as these are considered to be a single transaction."

Or another way, deposit funds into your trading account using a credit card, any profits you have, transfer back to you're credit card. You will pay a small forex spread (2.5%) but it won't raise any alarms. Just live on debt the rest of your life.
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #35
  • Sep 2, 2018 11:45am Sep 2, 2018 11:45am
as an oz livong overseas and not austraian resident for tax purposes; you do not need to lodge tax returns in australia at all.

also when you decide to return to australia; with your new profit; you can bring it in with no problems and without the need to pay tax on them in au. but be prepared to proove to ato where the money came from if they ask you. i.e. producing broker statement is sufficient. all they want to know is you earnings were legits.

the process is simple. if u dont live in au; u dont pay tax in au
  • #36
  • Sep 2, 2018 11:53am Sep 2, 2018 11:53am
The dividends need to be franked before you can pay yourself, but that sheds some light.

Wearing the share holders hat, receiving dividends you still have tax liabilities.

As for the pea under 3 wallnut shells game, Im not doing that ever. Its my hard earned money, Id rather pay 50% and know its mine than feel like a scammer of my own money. And Id be transferring more than 10k every few days lol Im living large.

I really want to pay tax and feel upright, I just dont think 50% is fair so Im most likely leaving AU
  • #37
  • Sep 2, 2018 11:55am Sep 2, 2018 11:55am
Quoting alphadude
as an oz livong overseas and not austraian resident for tax purposes; you do not need to lodge tax returns in australia at all. also when you decide to return to australia; with your new profit; you can bring it in with no problems and without the need to pay tax on them in au. but be prepared to proove to ato where the money came from if they ask you. i.e. producing broker statement is sufficient. all they want to know is you earnings were legits. the process is simple. if u dont live in au; u dont pay tax in au
can you provide the relevant link mate?
  • #38
  • Sep 2, 2018 11:57am Sep 2, 2018 11:57am
https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/In-detail/Foreign-income-of-Australian-residents/Foreign-income-of-Australian-residents-working-overseas/
  • #39
  • Sep 2, 2018 12:01pm Sep 2, 2018 12:01pm
One of these Libertarian Ideals may suit you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_micronations
  • #40
  • Sep 2, 2018 12:05pm Sep 2, 2018 12:05pm
Quoting SunTrader
https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/In-detail/Foreign-income-of-Australian-residents/Foreign-income-of-Australian-residents-working-overseas/

thanks Sun as expected.
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