Institutional Equivalent Education?

Almost certainly the last open webinar that Ray does this year:

FINAL LIVE Institutional Market Insight Session with Ray Sunday August 12th at 7:00 PM EASTERN
LOGIN: http://compassfx.webinato.com/sharpedge (Password: focus)
(No Registration Required to Attend This LIVE Event)

I have been very busy recently, having far too much to do:
A). Studying Ray's new Course
B). Looking into what changes I need to make to my trading since the ESMA changes came in.
C). Important social commitments (a longstanding friend of over 40 yrs attempted suicide).
D). Adding, welcoming and answering questions from new students of Ray who made the sensible decision to joining the 'Self Help Group' I run for Ray's students.

But today I had some time to start catching up with my emails and came across this article (emailed with 6 other useless ones by Boris Schlossberg):
https://www.collaborativefund.com/blog/real-world-vs-book-knowledge/

I found it good in that it provides reasons for what I empirically know to be true - that Ray teaches a whole host of trading/economic subjects 'better in regard students being able to profit from them' than do the original academic sources.

Many of Ray's students ask about the best books on various subjects he covers, but apart from satisfying curiosity and knowledge for its own sake, they are better off just spending more time reviewing recordings of Ray's course sessions on things like 'Macro Economics, Central Bank Policy, Market Profile, Volume Analysis, Price Action, News Sentiment, Order Flow, and the business models of Market Makers and institutional traders and Investors.

Another email from Boris Schlossberg and an interesting admission.
Reading another recent email from Boris Schlossberg, I see that his students aren't so different from Ray's (except they are learning from the wrong guy).

******************************************************************************************************************He says: ".........................................So why do I tell you this story in a trading column? Because dieting and trading share very similar results -- 90% of people who try either activity fail. Indeed, the behavioral literature for both can be copied almost verbatim. So how did I become part of the 10% that succeed? I didn’t follow a “strategy”. I didn’t practice “discipline”. I didn’t “sacrifice” anything. I basically stumbled into success like almost all successful people do. The point is that there is no formula for succeeding that works for everyone. There are a million unique formulas that work for someone. You just need to know who you are and you need to be open to where the possibilities may lead.

I spend most of my time developing systems for traders, but almost no ones in my group follows my rules. Indeed the most successful traders make my strategies their own -- and I in turn often borrow ideas from them. That is the true lesson of my weight loss journey. Success is simply a process of discovery which is a fancy way of saying, feel free to stumble all you want."

*****************************************************************************************************************

To me, it appears that Boris is actually doing a con job on his students - he promotes the idea that he can give them exact rules which will work for them. And then those that survive for long enough realise that they have to develop their own style, market etc.

It is much more honest to say up front that the student has to pick and adapt from the knowledge provided in the first place.
But of course unlike Ray, Boris doesn't (probably can't) provide all the knowledge his students might need in order to develop their own styles and markets.

I just came across an interesting article which suggests that meaningless rituals can increase self discipline/control - at least when applied to slimming.

https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/07/11/performing-meaningless-rituals-boosts-our-self-control-through-making-us-feel-more-self-disciplined/

If such a ritual could boost self discipline in trading, it would be a huge help to many, including me.

An email I got today:

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Hi Ian

As you know I am back.

I left to follow Eusebio thinking that, as a top class trader, his system must be the best.

Well, I was wrong. I was already with the best, Ray, but I couldn't handle the fire hydrant. I seem to be doing better now and it appears Ray is teaching better as well. The second time round is always easier as well because some of the knowledge is recognizable.

Anyway, with that as an introduction, what I am asking you is this: I am anticipating trading the EU and possibly the GU as well.

As a vastly underfunded trader, and now with some familiarity with Ninja in demo, what would you suggest was the info I should trade with as a minimum.

I am proposing to use Ninja as the data and overlay sources by continuing to renew every 2 weeks so it remains free and trade with my live Dukascopy account.

Or would you suggest I get David's software and pay for Sierra so that I have the best support for accurate entries? Clearly the cost of Sierra is not really that much and may not be worth the hassle of regularly renewing Ninja. If you suggest going with Sierra, is there a cheaper than $24 a month plus data?

I am always impressed with the way you support us so you must be a good father OR we are your children instead.

I look forward to your reply, Ian.
************************************************************************************************************************************

And my reply:

Hi XXXXXX,
I didn't get on well with 'The MAX', but that was mainly due to my lack of confidence in indicators, however I did manually test it and it was working quite well so I still suggest it for people who are 'indicator junkies'. However it is mainly a trend following system which may not be appropriate for certain Sessions in certain Markets.

It is really impossible for me to know which resources you need without knowing both your trading style and the total time and time of day that you are available to trade.
I don't know what is available in standard Ninja, but from what Ray has been showing and from what Dxxx Axxx has been showing in the group Skype, it seems that various forms of Cumulative Delta are available if your Data Source includes sufficient information.

The smaller the timeframe you are using to trade and the more 'scalpy' your style, then the more OrderFlow is important because you need the best possible entries. The larger your timeframe and the larger the swings you are trading, then in general the less important OrderFlow is , because your Stop Losses will be larger and so the need for accuracy is reduced.

From my notes I believe that you are based in Australia and so may well be trading the Asian Session (of which I have zero experience). However what I do know is that the Volume on the G/U will be particularly low during Asian, and thus not good for any Order Flow studies - which includes Cumulative Delta as well as David Tough's OFten indicators.

I am assuming that you are trading in the SpotFX Markets, but if you are trading the Currency futures, then the same applies to both the 6B and the 6E during the Asian session.
In general (if spreads are reasonably low) it is much easier to be able to fund an account big enough to trade the SpotFX than it is to trade the currency Futures, because there are Mini, Micro and even Nano accounts available ( = U$D1.0, U$D0.1, U$D0.01 per (4 digit)pip on E/U and G/U). Compared to the so called mini and micro Currency Futures which are US$D5.0 and U$D1.0 per 4 digit pip and have lower liquidity (sometimes very low) than the full sized contracts.

About Sierra: if you are trading the SpotFX and CFD markets then then required data is bundled in for free (a feed from FXCM which has enough detail to allow use of 'Footprint charts', Cumulative Delta and David's OFten indicators) - though with less accuracy than is available during on the Futures data feed during the US session (Futures data feeds don't provide any advantage in accuracy than that FXCM data feed during times of lower volume for the Futures, meaning outside of the US Session).

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Ian

A Supplementary email to the one posted above:

*****************************************************************************************************************You're right. I was not specific enough in terms of my trading style and sessions.
Yes, I am in Perth, Western Australia.
I prefer trading short term, virtually scalping, though not per its strict definition. Therefore, it seems David's OFten indicators would support me well.
I trade the full London session.
Do you think a Trader should trade the full session or set a target and stop trading each day as soon as this is achieved?
A sort of side question is; do you understand how Cumulative Deltas work yourself? I am starting to get a feel of them but even the definition I am struggling with. Is there some explanation that might be simpler than the way Ray puts it? Ray does have a tendency to assume somewhat more than minimal knowledge even in this classroom setting. He also assumes that once a class has been done, we have all studied it, know it and why the hell aren't we trading it the next day?

One of the benefits of trading on a non-futures platform is definitely the ability to trade down to nano accounts and to compound exactly rather than by whole numbers. So, yes, Dukascopy is on the spot markets.
Does this additional information enable you to be able to answer my original questions, Ian?
****************************************************************************************************************

And my reply:
Hi xxxx,
By 'the full London Session' I presume you mean 8hrs from the London open to the London Close.
This is not quite the optimum time to trade E/U and G/U, because it means you will miss the start of those moves which begin around the FrankFurt Open.
Other Australian based traders who trade in London (such as Nessy) usually only trade until the London/European lunch time, but they start before the FFO
so they have done all their analysis and are ready for any early moves (for example there is often Euro news at 08:00 London Time).
Ray says that you usually find Trending moves in the European morning, which then turn more to Ranging moves in the afternoon and US morning, when Ray tends to just scalp on the currencies. So the best time depends upon which type of price action you prefer.
Certainly from your description of your trading style, Sierra Service Package 5 with David's OFten indicators would seem to be a good fit.
But having said that, many people did fine before the OFten suite was available.
I certainly understand how Cumulative Deltas are calculated, though I never got a good handle on how I could use them to trade. But Ray's recent lessons on them has rekindled my interest in them. And I have seen a few people teach Cumulative Delta, but they didn't know how the Institutions and Market Makers actually trade - so rather like all those Liquidity Heatmap sellers, they got several things completely wrong. So I say there is probably no better teacher of Cum Deltas than Ray.
Ray expects his students can completely absorb one day's classes and use them to mark-up charts and to demo-trade the next day - BUT YOU SHOULD NOT EXPECT THAT!
Let's put it this way: I can't do it that fast and I have spent over 4yrs solidly in Ray's room. The best I can do is to be able to apply an occasional new thing into my own trading plan for just my style and just my markets! I think the best way to approach it is to try to absorb a little of everything as Ray teaches the class and make notes as to which things seem worth further study (for your style and your markets). Then after the course, go back to the recordings of the things you noted and then focus on learning those (again just for your style and your markets). Only add in other things when you have got the initial stuff in 'muscle memory'.

I hope that helps,
Ian

While Ray's 'Sharp Edge' course is now nearing its end, there are still some good and even dirt cheap courses to be held in the next few weeks - just that they are not as comprehensive or 'institutional level'.

I was impressed by the latest MAX webinar promoting their courses.
It is no secret that I am a big fan of their courses and of their lead instructor (who himself regularly attends Ray's courses).
But please note that taking a MAX course doesn't give you access to what Ray teaches!


Here is the link to the recording of that webinar (held yesterday):

Inserted Video

Even if you have no intention of attending a training course it is worth listening to the latter part of this video for the Q&A.
There are very wise answers to questions about: Choosing the best training for you , Consistency, Global Macro events, Timeframes, Indicators and much more.

They have got a special offer on for the MAX ETF-Primer course which can be used to see if their trading and teaching style works for you!

Attached Image (click to enlarge)

Some people think that trading is easy/simple.
Others think that it should be easy/simple. Well in my opinion once you know how to trade and then choose a trading style which matches you personality, time availability, skills and resources; then it can be simple - but it is never easy (not if you are trading your own money)!

Here is a list of the Focus/classroom sessions that Ray has covered so fat in his 'Sharp Edge' institutional level trading course (and there are still 9 days left):

Sharp Edge Class Day 1

08-13-18 Turkey Event - Understanding Market Drivers and Events

08-13-18 Libor Fix - EURO Dollar Correlation

08-13-18 Order Flow Class 1 - Structure of Market Place - Supply/Demand Process - Increase/Decrease

08-13-18 Order Flow Class 2 - Absorption Process - Auction Process - Trade into Absorption

Sharp Edge Class Day 2

08-14-18 Statistical Arbitrage

08-14-18 Fair Value

08-14-18 ROB (Refreshed Order Book)

08-14-18 EUR - Daily Chart – Accumulation/Distribution - Profile - Volume

08-14-18 Order Flow Class 1 - Profile Levels - Rotation - Aggressive vs Defensive - Quality Spreads - Auctions

08-14-18 Order Flow Class 2 - Institutional Capping Exercise Process - Finding Liquidity

08-14-18 Order Flow Class 3 - Liquidity Exercise - L2 - Targets - Daily Charts - Exhaustion

Sharp Edge Class Day 3

08-15-18 Crude Oil - Inventory Report Session

08-15-18 TED Spread - Equities - Risk

08-15-18 Hedgers - Puts/Calls - Gold - Risk

Sharp Edge Class Day 4

08-16-18 Calendars

08-16-18 Reading Reports - Profile Structure

08-16-18 Order Flow Class 1 - Market Structure & Volume Process

08-16-18 Order Flow Class 2 - Stopping Volume

08-16-18 Order Flow Class 3 - Trades - Fade – Stop & Test - "BSG" - Wobble - Spring/Pullback

Sharp Edge Class Day 5

08-17-18 Intro to Macro Fundamentals 10y/2y

08-17-18 Daily Focus Session 2 - The Art of Order Flow - Structure/Volume - Fade/Momentum

Sharp Edge Class Day 6

08-20-18 Guaranteed Prices - Premiums

08-20-18 Market Delta - Value

08-20-18 Macro Class 1 - News Trades - Price Discounting Process - Structured Plan

08-20-18 Macro Class 2 - Sentiment - Bonds - STIRS

08-20-18 Macro Class 3 - Rate Decisions - Event Horizons

Sharp Edge Class Day 7

08-21-18 Order Flow Review - Levels - Volume - Order

08-21-18 Macro Class 1 - Interest Rates - Curve & Inflation

08-21-18 Macro Class 2 - Shape of the Curve

08-21-18 Macro Class 3 - 30Y - 2Y Bond Yields & Yield Curve Cycle

Sharp Edge Class Day 8

08-22-18 Accumulation Process - Delta Elements

08-22-18 Bonds - Charting Flatteners & Steepeners

Sharp Edge Class Day 9

08-23-18 CME - Block Trades - Oil Process

08-23-18 EUR - Macro - Process/Structure/Narrative

08-23-18 Macro Class 1- Trade Structure Elements - Bankers Margin

08-23-18 Macro Class 2 - Bonds - Break-Even Rate

08-23-18 Macro Class 3 - Risk - Market Modeling - HUA

Sharp Edge Class Day 10

08-24-18 Macro - Interest Rates - Case Study

08-24-18 Macro Review - Dissecting the EUR

08-24-18 Daily Focus Session 3 - Institutional Accumulation/Distribution - Deltas

08-24-18 Daily Focus Session 4 - Spot The Institutional Trade - Deltas

Sharp Edge Class Day 11

08-27-18 Daily Focus Session - Soybeans - Cycles - COT Report - Progress Reports (1 hours 29 mins)

08-27-18 Class 1 - EUR - Macro to Micro - Trade Process - Key Drivers (1 hours 13 mins)

08-27-18 Class 2 - EUR - 10x10 Spread - Order Flow - Finding WOL (1 hours 11 mins)

08-27-18 Class 3 - EUR - Pension Funds (PF) Month End Rebalancing - Key Levels (1 hours 4 mins)

Sharp Edge Class Day 12

08-28-18 Daily Focus Session - EXXON - EURUSD - Finding Bank Delta - OBV - Volume (1 hour)

08-28-18 Class 1 - Equities - Market Structure - Hedging (1 hours 10 mins)

08-28-18 Class 2 - Equities - Rotations - Matrix (1 hours 8 mins)

08-28-18 Class 3 - Equities - Market Internals - TICK - TRIN - ADVDEC - ZScore (1 hours 2 mins)

Sharp Edge Class Day 13

08-29-18 Daily Focus Session - ES Review - Quality Spreads - Trade Elements (59 mins)

08-29-18 OFTen Suite 1 - Technical Session w David (1 hours 6 mins)

08-29-18 OFten Suite 2 - Technical Session (39 mins)

Sharp Edge Class Day 14

08-30-18 Daily Focus Session - EUR - Daily Process - "The Trade Checklist" (1 hours 27 mins)

08-30-18 Class 1 - Crude Oil - The CL Matrix (1 hours 26 mins)

08-30-18 Class 2 - Crude Oil - Drivers of US Oil (35 mins)

08-30-18 Class 3 – Crude Oil - Supply/Demand - Calendar Spreads (1 hours 31 mins)

Sharp Edge Class Day 15

08-31-18 Daily Focus Session - Process/Structure Review - Narrative - Delta/Price Action Analysis (1 hours 21 mins)

I have had another (silly but typical) question asked of me by PM:


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To: ianf0ster | From: X****** | Sent: Sep 10, 2018 12:49pm
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I want to know if it possible to become a millionaire by day trader. I know it might not be realistic but you are the only trader I following and much more knowable then me on this trading. I would love to know your thoughts and opinions about this subject.

************************************************************
My Reply:
I don't think that wanting to make 1 million $ or several million $ is a good reason to trade, or even to set up a business.

The vast majority of people will never put enough time and effort into either of those unless the actually enjoy the process!

Your question is a poor question because it is so completely open ended. I don't know you at all and even if I knew you quite well, unless I had seen how you trade then I would have no idea if it was possible for you to even be a profitable trader - much less become a millionaire from trading.

But yes of course it is possible for a very few people to make millions of $ by day trading!

See my post about V... H... and her trading, taking a $20K account to 1,264K in just 5 trading months (she made no trades at all in December 2017).

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...2#post10810682

Could I ever attain that level of success - probably not! But it is something that is possible (though unlikely) for any of Ray's 'Sharpe Edge' students.

Regards,
Ian

Just looking at that trading record from V H again, I notice that only once did she have less than 50% winning trades in a day. That was on 18th September 2017 ( only 43% winners) - note that the 29% on 13th September was calculated wrong and so was actually 71%.

This is typical of a Multi-unit style of trading, in fact from what I have seen, she always trades multi unit (as do I) but she accounts for them as separate trades, unlike me - I account for them as trade parts since each only forms a part of the overall trade I took.

I don't know if she monitors her trade win% like I do, but her figures suggest that she is trading just a little better than I am in general.
The big difference comes about because:
A). She managed to execute what we call a 'Moonshot' - I have never had a successful moonshot yet.
B). She had 9 days were she did large numbers of trades (trade parts to me) i.e. doing over 100 'trades, she even did 271 on her last day.
C). On her P&L she had no losing days at all, where I tend to never go more than 2 months without at least 1 big losing day.

Here is a more recent example of a Gold trade that V H did. Though she would count it as 6 trades because in total she traded 6 units:

Although I sometimes learn something new when people strongly disagree with me, it is nice to come across an article which supports my view that psychology is ultimately the most important part of trading:



In the latest email from Boris Schlossberg there was this link: https://www.collaborativefund.com/bl...aled-emotions/
Everything About Investing is Emotional. Always
Two forces control every investment market: 1) money is emotional, 2) most people don’t think they’re emotional.

This week I got an email promoting a 'webinar' (I think it was actually just a repeating recording). And ultimately a course which claimed some decent results and also claimed this person had taught his trading method to about 10,000 students.

This seemed vaguely familiar, so I followed it up and sure enough I had seen it before. However this time I thought I would compare the guru's trading style (Ziad Masri) with that of Ray's student V. H.
Here are the resulting marked up screenshots:
First the naked chart of an unknown market, with no prices or volume (and naturally no Value - since he doesn't use that).
The 2 green horizontal lines denote an area of 'support'.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)

Then showing the guru's opinion of where the average retail trader would have been taught to enter - on the close of a candle 'confirming' the 'support area'.


Then the guru's entry


His entry compared to the RetailEntry


It's a big improvement, isn't it? But it still falls far short of how one of Ray's better students would trade it.
Because they would use Multi-unit, Multi-entry and Multi-exit with dynamic trade Management.

I came to this thread by way of a recommendation from an ex-user (Hanover) that over the past few years I grew to respect a great deal. It's sad that he felt the need to leave but then many do as this place is full of twats that can wear one down.

So from his recommendation I'm certain you're genuine and that you're not trying to flog rubbish. That said I don't understand people like Ray and the ease with which they always appear in their webinars. I have to admit I've never seen the guy trade live and have just watched a few webinars that have been recorded and are obviously done after the fact. The guy talks very convincingly and makes it all sound so obvious that if it really was that easy he'd be the richest person on the planet. That's why, like so many others, I've always been sceptical of those running courses of any sort in forex.
My logic goes like this: here's a guy doing this because it makes him money. Why does he need to make this money as he sounds so clever and talented that all he needs to make surely can be made in the market ? Perhaps he's greedy; or perhaps he has an altruistic attitude and doesn't need the money. Sadly I'm cynical enough not to believe either of those two last statements and always come back to the conclusion that he's doing it cos he just can't make enough using his own vast experience and knowledge. And if that is the case why on earth would I want to give him my hard earned cash to follow a similar trajectory ? My other objection to those flogging courses and webinars and all manner of stuff in forex is that if you have something of value, like a working method, a working indicator, a working anything, why would you let it out into the wild when there's a high probability of it making the market more efficient. And we all know what happens when the market gets to know of something, or method, or process. It eventually gets built into the price and stops working as a predictor.

Now ianf0ster I'm sure similar thoughts must have crossed your mind yet you still took the plunge and have spent money with Ray. Perhaps you can tell me why he isn't as rich as Croesus and why he does these webinars ? Your comments would be most useful. Thanks.

i totally agree with your thoughts!

Doc, how is Ian going to convince you of something when you dont trust the opinion of someone you know and respect a great deal?
What does it matter why he teaches and if he is rich or not? I can give you satisfactory answers to both those questions but at the end of the day they are irrelevant.

What is relevant is that he does teach and what he teaches will change just about everything you know about the market. I have been with Ray two years now. Go with Davids opinion and I guarantee you that you will stop wasting your time looking for answers in this forum.

I know there are a few (very few) people who fin this thread, or find Ray's Sharp-Edge course without already having much experience in trading. For them the education section of Babypips ( www.Babypips.com) is a good resource, however like all retail trading education it isn't all good or useful.
So I wrote a document about which parts of it were good preparation for Ray's Sharp-Edge course. Note that the Babypips website has had a 'new look' since then, but I think that the documentation is still the same.

Attached File(s)

Absolute Beginners-The Basics of Trading.doc   167 KB | 298 downloads

dr_who,
I think that although Copi88 has given a very good reply, I may be able to add a little more:

1). Why does it always seem easy when educators show trading examples? - Well there are 2 reasons and they apply to completely different kinds of educator :
A). There are those who may or not be frauds, but use 'cherry picked' examples - often the same example over and over again (sometimes their promotional webinar is just a recording from several years ago) - LOL !
B). There are those like Ray who always pick something current/very recent as an example and it seems easy because they know how to trade (their method/system) through long experience - in Ray's case he has lived and breathed the markets for over 30yrs and has a failed marriage as a consequence.

2). Why aren't traders the richest people n the planet? - Well some of them are - LOL! I have no idea how rich Ray is, but he says that several traders he taught (in his 'real job') make much more than he does. This is because i). Some trade for themselves rather than an institution ii). Others are employed by institutions as traders (Ray is employed as a Quant/Strategist which he finds much more interesting/satisfying), but the best Traders are paid much more than the best Quants.



Amazingly, Ray is like a genuine $500 note lying on the pavement day after day. Most people don't believe it is real, so it stays there ignored day after day. So Ray doesn't make any meaningful money out of teaching because the courses are so far apart and the numbers of new students are so low. Fortunately Ray gets great personal satisfaction out of teaching us, especially when his students make real progress. But in any case, greed can be ruled out, because he teaches for waaayy more hours than he need do just for the course and the room. Last year's 10-Day course actually lasted an 4 days of new teaching plus an extra day of wrap-up. That was the course that 'Hanover' was on. This year the course has been extended for an extra week. Neither of those were at any extra cost to the students. He puts in a 10 to 12hr day for the Japanese Bank and then does an extra 8 to 10hrs per day for us retail students, usually getting 3 to 4hrs sleep! - Does that seem like greed to you?

I see you in this thread all the time. You also contacted me with questions about Ray's course.
You are very sceptical(which is understandable) about it and you always agree with persons who are trying to talk trash about this course.

I don't understand. If you are so convinced about that this is/will be a course that is worthless why are you still here and want more videos about Ray's course?

For me it looks like in the back of your mind you know you have to take this course because it is the real deal but you don't have the money for it.

Don't look at the amount of money. See it as an investment in yourself!

Here is a good article about Knowledge versus Skill.

http://awealthofcommonsense.com/2018/09/knowledge-vs-skill/

These days most knowledge is relatively easy to find (just ask Google).
So conventional knowledge on its own gives you no/little edge without having the rarer skill in using that knowledge.

Even students of Ray, who have been given rare institutional trading knowledge, need to practice and become skilled in using it.