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Prop firms offering retail traders trading accounts -Risk free

  • #41
  • Aug 25, 2018 3:22pm Aug 25, 2018 3:22pm
Quoting m3rlin
{quote} samuel and co is a scam and you should be ashame, because you are trading from uk, a great country and is very easy to verify a company, so: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08100330/filing-history (governament website if someone wants to check it) now it showing that it has 30000 or more but they have some debt problems about audacity a friend of mine was 2 or 3 yaers ago and she is not happy, it was one guy that used to say he is a ceo or something and a huge trader and teached on a demo account and used to call it...

Companies house means nothing as businesses tell their accountants to put what they want there. If they were a scam their fca regulation would have come down. FCA would have gone through their books.

Anyways I am not here to defend prop firms but to provide options for traders so they don't blow accounts.

Like I said I don't know much about audacity.

Blufx is a simple prop firm to use but I don't like their time restrictions.
  • #42
  • Aug 25, 2018 3:31pm Aug 25, 2018 3:31pm
Quoting Samson85
{quote} Companies house means nothing as businesses tell their accountants to put what they want there. If they were a scam their fca regulation would have come down. FCA would have gone through their books. Anyways I am not here to defend prop firms but to provide options for traders so they don't blow accounts. Like I said I don't know much about audacity. Blufx is a simple prop firm to use but I don't like their time restrictions.
ok mate, take care
Price itself it's an indicator
  • #43
  • Aug 25, 2018 3:34pm Aug 25, 2018 3:34pm
Quoting m3rlin
{quote} ok mate, take care

If you can offer any options then please provide them because their are people losing savings, taking out loans or even losing their houses due to blowing their bank accountants.

I really respect the restriction on leverage but ppl are finding away around by obtaining professional memberships.
  • #44
  • Aug 25, 2018 3:45pm Aug 25, 2018 3:45pm
Quoting Samson85
{quote} If you can offer any options then please provide them because their are people losing savings, taking out loans or even losing their houses due to blowing their bank accountants. I really respect the restriction on leverage but ppl are finding away around by obtaining professional memberships.
sorry, but i can't offer any options because i don't know. i never traded for prop firms.
Price itself it's an indicator
  • #45
  • Aug 25, 2018 11:30pm Aug 25, 2018 11:30pm
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  • #46
  • Aug 25, 2018 11:59pm Aug 25, 2018 11:59pm
Quoting Fisher755
{image}
A good summary of Pharaoh on "prop shops" in general.

A small note to addition:
The payouts usually at/after certain profit targets, or one some serious and more real prop firms ( those where you don't pay monthly fees, and I listed 2 previously here) often quarterly.

To Samson:
Ppl lose money, but when you get a 25k acct with a weekly max loss limit of 1k, and probably 0.5-1 lot max open positions, how is it really different to have 1k personal account and risking it all?
Apart from certain scenarios, in most cases prop doesn't make much sense, especially when monthly upfront fees, and/or pre-paid demo qualifiers included.

I am one with first hand prop experience from multiple prop entities. That should give me some basic understanding, shouldn't it?
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #47
  • Aug 26, 2018 11:50am Aug 26, 2018 11:50am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} A good summary of Pharaoh on "prop shops" in general. A small note to addition: The payouts usually at/after certain profit targets, or one some serious and more real prop firms ( those where you don't pay monthly fees, and I listed 2 previously here) often quarterly. To Samson: Ppl lose money, but when you get a 25k acct with a weekly max loss limit of 1k, and probably 0.5-1 lot max open positions, how is it really different to have 1k personal account and risking it all? Apart from certain scenarios, in most cases prop doesn't make much...

My point is she using a prop firm you cannot lose your own money besides the monthly fee and the payouts are guaranteed with blufx and Samuel and co.
  • #48
  • Aug 26, 2018 1:38pm Aug 26, 2018 1:38pm
Quoting Samson85
{quote} My point is she using a prop firm you cannot lose your own money besides the monthly fee and the payouts are guaranteed with blufx and Samuel and co.
Quick question Samson: do you get any commissions/fees from this advertising? Just to have the full picture of it. Thanks
On ignore list of scammers, deceivers and low IQ individuals. Exclusively
  • #49
  • Aug 26, 2018 1:42pm Aug 26, 2018 1:42pm
Quoting Samson85
{quote} My point is she using a prop firm you cannot lose your own money besides the monthly fee and the payouts are guaranteed with blufx and Samuel and co.
Samson,

i swear i am not here to argue with you here.
you guaranteed to lose the monthly fees with your kind of prop firms. that is 100% certain, and there is a good reason also why it is up front fee!

in regards to the same model, for a quickly died off TST thread i started to go a bit into the math:
https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=11381132#post11381132

as an example,
you need to understand, that if a "prop firm" has 1000$ max loss limit before you are out...if your friend trades with 2000$ own capital ( given a 50% stopout) his risk is max 1000$ the same.
he can choose to protect himself by not holding overnight, most scalpers/short term traders dont hold. that reduce his risk.
on the upside, what he makes on his 2000$ capital is 100% his money.
of course if one cant be reasonable certain he has some fighting chance trading forex, best not to start, own money or prop money, or whatever.
time is precious, and something you cant buy back.
there is also a cost of opportunity lost.
10-25k on a good average 5% return wont pay the food you need, not to mention rent, internet, and that upfront fees...and you actually to collect 50% of it...IF...as even that has conditions....
and he has not to worry about trades being force closed before news, or by mistake holding into the no-trade time of the prop firms.
btw, why do you think they have those rules on these up front fee prop firms, and not at those where they are looking for track record of you?
up front fee "props" happy to cut you out for 'trading rules violation'...an expensive, if a honest mistake by the trader.

i will leave you to it;
i think you made up your own mind what to believe, and not much an openness left to listen to someone who has been trading prop for months.
for a parting word, think again, if you would want to find profitable traders, would you try to do by imposing on them a monthly fee, or by looking for best track records?

happy weekend!
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #50
  • Edited 2:48pm Aug 26, 2018 2:14pm | Edited 2:48pm
Quoting Samson85
{quote} My point is she using a prop firm you cannot lose your own money besides the monthly fee and the payouts are guaranteed with blufx and Samuel and co.
Samson which platform and which broker do traders using Blufx trade on / with ?
  • #51
  • Aug 26, 2018 2:52pm Aug 26, 2018 2:52pm
Quoting MXT
{quote} Samson which platform and which broker do traders using Blufx trade on / with ?
It's on an MT4 and I'm not sure which broker it is
  • #52
  • Aug 26, 2018 2:56pm Aug 26, 2018 2:56pm
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} Samson, i swear i am not here to argue with you here. you guaranteed to lose the monthly fees with your kind of prop firms. that is 100% certain, and there is a good reason also why it is up front fee! in regards to the same model, for a quickly died off TST thread i started to go a bit into the math: https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=11381132#post11381132 as an example, you need to understand, that if a "prop firm" has 1000$ max loss limit before you are out...if your friend trades with 2000$ own capital ( given a...
Not here to argue with you as well

There are people who seem to make it work. It's not nice having restrictions in place but they have to protect themselves as well. I won't use them as I don't like the time rules as I am a fundamental trader and trade based of news etc
  • #53
  • Aug 26, 2018 3:07pm Aug 26, 2018 3:07pm
Quoting MXT
{quote} Samson which platform and which broker do traders using Blufx trade on / with ?
From my research BluFX have recently adopted the MT4 platform, i don't know if this is desktop version or web based, the broker they use is pricemarkets (FCA regulated)
  • #54
  • Aug 26, 2018 3:27pm Aug 26, 2018 3:27pm
Quoting leweg1
{quote} From my research BluFX have recently adopted the MT4 platform, i don't know if this is desktop version or web based, the broker they use is pricemarkets (FCA regulated)
That's correct it's pricemarkets. It's not web-based but you can use it on your phone. It's on an mt4.

The broker I use is cmc markets as it's fast and clean
  • #55
  • Aug 26, 2018 3:28pm Aug 26, 2018 3:28pm
Quoting leweg1
{quote} From my research BluFX have recently adopted the MT4 platform, i don't know if this is desktop version or web based, the broker they use is pricemarkets (FCA regulated)
thanks Leweg
  • #56
  • Aug 26, 2018 3:46pm Aug 26, 2018 3:46pm
Upfront monthly fee = scam. Period. JMHO.
  • #57
  • Aug 26, 2018 4:08pm Aug 26, 2018 4:08pm
Quoting Jairo
Upfront monthly fee = scam. Period. JMHO.
i hear ya man and i understand your concerns like everybody else here , but you need proof for your claims

it may be a scam or it may not be a scam : the only way to really find out is to have direct knowledge of the matter

one way to find out would be to know somebody working at Pricemarkets and check whether the acct provided by blufx is real or demo
  • #58
  • Edited 11:42pm Aug 26, 2018 11:26pm | Edited 11:42pm
Quoting Jairo
Upfront monthly fee = scam. Period. JMHO.
Technically not a scam, but they do obfuscate their business model:

They would like you to believe that they make their money by:

1) finding great traders who don't have capital
2) giving them capital to trade
3) taking a share of the profit.

The reality is that they want the trader to lose and their rules are designed to facilitate losing. They will make their money by:

1) Collecting monthly fees regardless of whether the trader wins or loses.

If you think about it:

1) They advertise as looking for great traders. Why would a great trader not have capital to trade? I'm expected to believe that all the great traders are broke, wtf!!! It's exactly the same wtf I have as the one where Commercial Member is selling their 100% perfect ea because they're broke too. Everyone Commercial is a fantastic trader, and a master fucking ea programmer, but what the fuck, they're all destitute as well. Come on man, it's so lame it's not even funny any more. No, prop firms are not looking for great traders, they're looking for ANY traders, preferably losing traders. They won't get great traders, because great traders won't need the captital. Great traders already have capital, and they won't be interested in trading any amount of prop capital with such a ridiculous profit share arrangement and monthly fee agreement.

2) Why are there rules such as no trades over the weekend and no trades between certain times. These are designed to make the trader lose. What, did forex magically stop being 24/5 now. As pf mentioned the rules are designed to make the trader break them, therefore breaking the contract and losing further money. As for weekend gap bullshit, great traders don't leverage so high that a weekend gap is dangerous. Actually I have trades open over most weekends for the last ten years, no problem for me.

3) High minimum profit per month rule, combined with low maximum drawdown rule. Nobody can reliably make 5% per month every month with maximum 10% drawdown. You want to make minimum 5% per month for years, then expect to see 20% or higher drawdown somewhere within 3 years. EDIT : For the record, drawdown is the ratio between equity and balance.

4) Why are you required to use their account platform? Perhaps it's because there is no real money being traded? Maybe it's because it allows further price manipulation to skew the trader further towards losing?

5) What are the specifications of a great trader. The ability to trade, right? Why isn't the prop firm interested in the traders history then? Nope, they're just interested in them monthly fees. Wonder why that is?

Prop firm, sounds so professional. Nope, just a legitimate way to make any trader (profitable or not) bleed out slowly with monthly fees.
  • #59
  • Aug 27, 2018 1:05am Aug 27, 2018 1:05am
Quoting kenshin
{quote} Technically not a scam, but they do obfuscate their business model: They would like you to believe that they make their money by: 1) finding great traders who don't have capital 2) giving them capital to trade 3) taking a share of the profit. The reality is that they want the trader to lose and their rules are designed to facilitate losing. They will make their money by: 1) Collecting monthly fees regardless of whether the trader wins or loses. If you think about it: 1) They advertise as looking for great traders. Why would a great trader...

Hmmm not all great traders have loads of capital. I am sure most people would rather trade other peoples money to become wealthy as opposed to risking their own. A great trader could have $3000 dollars in their account and have started with $30 dollars. Turning $30 to $3000 is great but growing it to 100,000 Will take a very long time.

The reason why they don't want you holding trades over the weekend is that a currency pair or even the market could crash. Stop losses can be broken when the market opens and that is a fact unless your broker provides guaranteed stop losses.

Lol you use their platform so you don't run away with their capital. Why on earth would they send money to random brokers.

Lol none of them said make 5% a month. It all depends on the individual how much you make.

This video below shows that the majority of prop firms even ones where you sit in their office will charge you a fee:

https://youtu.be/naJqQYDQqYc
  • #60
  • Aug 27, 2018 2:30am Aug 27, 2018 2:30am
Quoting kenshin
{quote} Technically not a scam, but they do obfuscate their business model: They would like you to believe that they make their money by: 1) finding great traders who don't have capital 2) giving them capital to trade 3) taking a share of the profit. The reality is that they want the trader to lose and their rules are designed to facilitate losing. They will make their money by: 1) Collecting monthly fees regardless of whether the trader wins or loses. If you think about it: 1) They advertise as looking for great traders. Why would a great trader...
You have said it much better than I ever could.
This was the same guy that advocated trading based on funnymental. Ofc he is no scammers so what is he really? Potential hucksters or grifters? Hehe
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