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modify Mouteki/ Demark _trend _new indicator?

  • #21
  • Oct 5, 2006 7:01pm Oct 5, 2006 7:01pm
Quoting Vince-AC
i just tried new indicator. the old mouteki indicator is using a 4h candle that is just forming as a qualifying 2nd lower candle, whereas this new indicator is using candles that are already formed. rite now it is the usd/jpy 4h chart. which one is correct? check it out
Vince

Thanks for your question. Just a couple of things:

1. When you say the "old mouteki indicator", which indicator do you mean? Do you mean the first version of Demark? Or the indicator actually called "Mouteki"?

2. I have not modified anything in the scripts and calculations of this indicator. It is as it was originally. The only thing I've done was to introduce an alert to it and allow the user to change colors and styles of some of the lines.

3. Where do you get the information about the 2nd qualifying candle? In other words, how do you know it's using the close of the candle rather than a forming candle?

HT
Lighty
"The market will rally from this or lower levels"
  • #22
  • Oct 5, 2006 9:26pm Oct 5, 2006 9:26pm
in post #1, there are two indicators. one is mouteki. when i put your recent one and the mouteki one, on seperate charts with the same pair usd/jpy, the lines were different. your ind was using a completed candle and the mouteki was using the current candle which was still being formed. it just happened to open lower than the previous one, hence it became the 2nd qualifying candle for the most recent low. i just wondered which was the correct way to do it.
  • #23
  • Oct 5, 2006 11:19pm Oct 5, 2006 11:19pm
Quoting Vince-AC
in post #1, there are two indicators. one is mouteki. when i put your recent one and the mouteki one, on seperate charts with the same pair usd/jpy, the lines were different. your ind was using a completed candle and the mouteki was using the current candle which was still being formed. it just happened to open lower than the previous one, hence it became the 2nd qualifying candle for the most recent low. i just wondered which was the correct way to do it.
Vince

Ok, I think I understand.

Firstly, though I wish I could, I can't take credit for the Demark indicator. It's not "mine". Art posted it in this thread and I just added alerts to it. The actual signals (that I added the alerts to) were part of the script in the indicator. With one modification (read below).

Now, to your question.....

Mouteki indicator gives a signal while the breaching candle is still in progress. This means mouteki indicator's arerts are based on price movement and not on candle closing. Mouteki will give you a short signal when the price goes below the lower trendline. Then the price might come back above the line and again go below it. You'll get another alert. You could get a lot of alerts with the mouteki indicator only to find out that in the end the candle has closed way above the lower trendline, the candle turned out to be a spinning top or a long-legged doji and price bounced up again with the original trend ("trend-line reject").

The Demark indicator, as posted originally by Art in the first post of this thread, has mounted-in signals. Originally those signals were written by way of comments (top-left of screen, white writing ending with "GameOver") and by drawing blue and red arrows whenever a breach of a trendline occurs. Those arrows were not introduced by me but rather by the original makers of Demark. However, the original version gave a signal whenever a candle's low would be below a lower trendline or the candle's high would be above the trendline. This is much like the mouteki indicator, although you wouldn't get a signal in Demark until after the candle is closed (whether or not it closes above or below the line). My modification was to add alerts to the signal and also to change the signal so that it occurs when the candle has actually closed below/above the lower/higher trendline. I understand that to be a fundamental rule of the mouteki method (see the "mouteki documentation" thread), although of course I could be wrong.

If you ask which way is better, I'd say it's definitely better to wait for the candle to close. In fact, some people will even wait longer, until the first breaching candle has closed and the next candle has breached the low (or high in upper trendline breaches) of the first candle.

Art has outlined a problem above (see his recent post), saying that the Demark indicator gave him a late signal (ie after the close of the second candle and not the first). I don't know if it only happened once or if it's always doing it. It wasn't intended to it and it didn't do it when I tested it on 1m and 5m. But that's the way the original Demark signal was designed (blue and red arrows being the signals). You can actually open two windows on the same pair; one with original Demark and one with Demark_with_alerts and see if there's a difference in the timing of signals. The only difference should be that in Demark you get an arrow if a candle reaches the trendline with its high/low and in Demark_with_alerts you get a signal when the candle closes above/below the line.

Having said that, I'm going to sit down tonight and introduce my own "signal function" to Demark, rather than rely on the original one. The function will give you more options. In fact, I plan to make the entire indicator more customizable and also allow it to display past lines and signals for back-testing purposes.
"The market will rally from this or lower levels"
  • #24
  • Oct 5, 2006 11:20pm Oct 5, 2006 11:20pm
Quoting ART_1_
i noticed now 2minutes ago that the alert appeared one candle to late. on the gbp/usd (gmt+3) the candle closed 4 hours ago below the trendline but now 4 hours later on the next candle the alert popped up.

is it just on my side the bug? on eur/chf the same
Art

That's interesting and wasn't intended. Have a look at my post to Vince for comments.

Did it only happen once or is it consistently doing it?

Let me know and I'll look at it tonight.
"The market will rally from this or lower levels"
  • #25
  • Edited 11:48pm Oct 5, 2006 11:37pm | Edited 11:48pm
ok light,
you understood me perfectly. so now i will switch to the demark indicator. i liked the mouteki because it allowed me to qickly put it on diff charts. it made those nice little dotted target lines, horizonal lines, sound aletrs, email alerts, time to end of bar, etc. the only thing i didn't like is that it erased all other objects like some fib lines and labels. i hope your new modification includes all these goodies
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Mouteki.with.timebar.mq4   22 KB | 911 downloads
  • #26
  • Oct 5, 2006 11:59pm Oct 5, 2006 11:59pm
Quoting Vince-AC
ok light,
you understood me perfectly. so now i will switch to the demark indicator. i liked the mouteki because it allowed me to qickly put it on diff charts. it made those nice little dotted target lines, horizonal lines, sound aletrs, email alerts, time to end of bar, etc. the only thing i didn't like is that it erased all other objects like some fib lines and labels. i hope your new modification includes all these goodies
The problem that Art raised with the Mouteki indicator was that it didn't draw trendlines very well. I haven't checked that for myself.

If you like, I'll try to modify mouteki_with_timebar to give signals on bar close rather than on price cross, and it'll still have the other functions it has.

I don't know what Demark was originally intended for. But it does draw a lot of stuff. Just play around with the settings.
"The market will rally from this or lower levels"
  • #27
  • Oct 6, 2006 12:04am Oct 6, 2006 12:04am
Hey gang,

I know most of you use MT but for anyone out there using eSignals you can pick up some Trendlines Automatic from http://www.sr-analyst.com/studies.htm

They work perfect. MT trader you might want to see if they have em for you guys this seams like a case of you get what you pay for...

turbo
  • #28
  • Oct 6, 2006 12:05am Oct 6, 2006 12:05am
Quoting LightKeeper
Vince

Thanks for your question. Just a couple of things:

1. When you say the "old mouteki indicator", which indicator do you mean? Do you mean the first version of Demark? Or the indicator actually called "Mouteki"?

2. I have not modified anything in the scripts and calculations of this indicator. It is as it was originally. The only thing I've done was to introduce an alert to it and allow the user to change colors and styles of some of the lines.

3. Where do you get the information about the 2nd qualifying candle? In other words, how do you know it's using the close of the candle rather than a forming candle?

HT
Lighty
im downloading the ea and i will be using it. but so far, i can only say:

Thanks for the help
Have a good day and a good trade!
  • #29
  • Oct 6, 2006 12:07am Oct 6, 2006 12:07am
that would be great! is there a way to test it to see if it is accurate so as to satisfy art. ps. could you make it stop erasing all the other objects?
  • #30
  • Oct 6, 2006 12:18am Oct 6, 2006 12:18am
Quoting Vince-AC
that would be great! is there a way to test it to see if it is accurate so as to satisfy art. ps. could you make it stop erasing all the other objects?
Hmm....the only way to test it I think would be to include an option to keep old trendlines. I can do that.

As for erasing other objects....Yeah I think can do that.

Ironically, only a week ago I posted a message in the forum asking how to do that and no one really gave me a real answer. But I've worked it out
"The market will rally from this or lower levels"
  • #31
  • Oct 6, 2006 12:21am Oct 6, 2006 12:21am
Quoting turbokaos
Hey gang,

I know most of you use MT but for anyone out there using eSignals you can pick up some Trendlines Automatic from http://www.sr-analyst.com/studies.htm

They work perfect. MT trader you might want to see if they have em for you guys this seams like a case of you get what you pay for...

turbo
Do you think the Demark and Mouteki indicators don't display good trendlines?
"The market will rally from this or lower levels"
  • #32
  • Oct 6, 2006 3:01am Oct 6, 2006 3:01am
hi lightkeeper

i noticed it now again, on IBFX the candle has closed 2 minutes ago and no alarm appeared on gbp/usd and GBP/EUR. the alarm was only for EUR/AUD but it was again the wrong candle. the long signal should be 2 candles back on eur/aud.

i have attached those pics.
Attached Images
  • #33
  • Oct 6, 2006 3:27am Oct 6, 2006 3:27am
Quoting ART_1_
hi lightkeeper

i noticed it now again, on IBFX the candle has closed 2 minutes ago and no alarm appeared on gbp/usd and GBP/EUR. the alarm was only for EUR/AUD but it was again the wrong candle. the long signal should be 2 candles back on eur/aud.

i have attached those pics.
What about the blue arrows? Did they show up at the same time as the alert?

(looking at it now. gonna forget Demark indicator's built-in signals and add my own from scratch)
"The market will rally from this or lower levels"
  • #34
  • Oct 6, 2006 3:48am Oct 6, 2006 3:48am
Quoting LightKeeper
What about the blue arrows? Did they show up at the same time as the alert?

(looking at it now. gonna forget Demark indicator's built-in signals and add my own from scratch)

i believe that the alert pops up when the arrow appears, i will have a look on the arrow in 5min(fxdd 4hour close).
  • #35
  • Oct 6, 2006 4:04am Oct 6, 2006 4:04am
yes the alert appears when the arrow appears. now there were 2 correct signals and 2 signals where no alert popped up and no arrow(but the mouteki signal was correct.

atacched are 3pics, 2 are correct and one wrong there was also no signal on gbp/chf
Attached Images
  • #36
  • Oct 6, 2006 4:05am Oct 6, 2006 4:05am
Quoting ART_1_
i believe that the alert pops up when the arrow appears, i will have a look on the arrow in 5min(fxdd 4hour close).
hey, thanks for helping.

test it side by side with the original (no alerts) version of Demark that you've posted in your first post here. that's what i'm doing to see if my changes have stuffed it up. so far it doesn't seem so.

also, sorry about this. but i guess that's what happens when you try to do something and share it as soon as possible rather than test it for a week first
"The market will rally from this or lower levels"
  • #37
  • Oct 6, 2006 4:18am Oct 6, 2006 4:18am
Quoting LightKeeper
hey, thanks for helping.

test it side by side with the original (no alerts) version of Demark that you've posted in your first post here. that's what i'm doing to see if my changes have stuffed it up. so far it doesn't seem so.

also, sorry about this. but i guess that's what happens when you try to do something and share it as soon as possible rather than test it for a week first

i have to say thanks for helping to make a good indicator
  • #38
  • Oct 6, 2006 4:40am Oct 6, 2006 4:40am
Quoting ART_1_
yes the alert appears when the arrow appears. now there were 2 correct signals and 2 signals where no alert popped up and no arrow(but the mouteki signal was correct.

atacched are 3pics, 2 are correct and one wrong there was also no signal on gbp/chf
Hey

I've just looked at the screen shots you've posted. I've noticed your fractal arrows are different to mine. Mine are little circles, yours are golden arrows. Are you using the same indicator I've posted?

(note that my screenshot shows the 2 additional features I've just added: time to end of bar and title of indicator but the rest is the same as I've posted before).
Attached Image
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Demark_trend_alert_and_mail.mq4   17 KB | 953 downloads
"The market will rally from this or lower levels"
  • #39
  • Oct 6, 2006 4:55am Oct 6, 2006 4:55am
yes i use the same, i have only enabled the standard mt4 indicator fractals, i like the style of the arrows more
  • #40
  • Oct 6, 2006 4:59am Oct 6, 2006 4:59am
Quoting Vince-AC
ok light,
you understood me perfectly. so now i will switch to the demark indicator. i liked the mouteki because it allowed me to qickly put it on diff charts. it made those nice little dotted target lines, horizonal lines, sound aletrs, email alerts, time to end of bar, etc. the only thing i didn't like is that it erased all other objects like some fib lines and labels. i hope your new modification includes all these goodies
It should not be deleting other objects now. The code for that was already in there by the original programmer but for some reason he/she changed their mind and removed it and put in "DeleteAllObjects". I suspect it's because without using DeleteAllObjects, fractal points (the little silver dots) don't seem to delete properly when you scroll for new data or change to lower timeframes (which often requires MT4 to get new data). I've seen that problem before. Anyway, I've restored the code that does not delete everything and I've made fractal points optional. See what you think of it.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Mouteki[2].with.timebar.mq4   22 KB | 1,083 downloads
"The market will rally from this or lower levels"
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