Why don't traders admit that they are not profitable in trading?

It is a widely known fact that most retail traders lose money in trading in the long run.

It seems rare that traders admit they are not making money/losing money or not doing well in trading, including most traders here in F.F.

Ironically, there are quite a few who try to give the general public the impression that they are good at trading, with no verified P&L to show.

For the purpose of the discussion, I will set an example myself. I admit that though I know quite a bit about trading, I do not see myself as a successful trader. I base it on my inability to achieve consistent net profit for at least 6 months in a row. I have lost thousands of dollars over the years. Currently, I only trade for the sake of trading with a fairly small account. I really do like trading. I enjoy creating trading strategies and trying them out and see if I could get them to perform well under various market conditions. I do not care if I can succeed in the long term (being realistic). I trade because I like to trade. And I do pride myself to be able to be honest about my actual trading ability to other people/traders. If people ask me about my trading performance, I would not hesitate to tell the truth.

I know this might be an uncomfortable topic for some traders here. This is just an issue that has been bothering me for quite a while. I am also really curious to hear what people think about this issue.

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Changed the topic title. Sorry for the unintentional confusion caused.

It's a common thing in psychology "denial". Most believe they will eventually become successful in the future and are discounting that future today. I also think most will eventually leave enbittered and will not see their dreams come true. I will also add that looking for consistent profitable traders is like looking for a winning lottery ticket. People quote alot of short term percentages but the longterm success rate is alot lower than these statistics. In the long run may be 1/1000000 makes it, thats why active investing is not recommended and is viewed by many as impossible.

Hi, I think the answer you are looking for is psychology. Most professions require many obstacles to progress such as tests, years of study or other. However, someone wanting to trade currencies on the forex market can open an account and trade on the very same day. So, all a person would need to do is convince themselves they can make money in this industry just by pressing a button to buy or sell.

Now, humans are almost hard wired mentally to not want to lose things. Losing something = Bad to our subconscious. Those that desire to maintain a personal image will avoid disclosing things that will make them seem inferior to fellow humans. I am guessing we each have several personal images to maintain such as "real", "online" and "Public General Everyday". I will not go into detail of how the brain works here, so anyone interested should search on google

There is also a poor understanding by what it means to be "bad" in trading. Some may consider loosing $100, some losing $1,000 or even $10,000's before admitting they can't trade, while to others $1,000 can be a single average stop loss. Some may decide that their loss is a result of gaining experience, like tuition fees. So do they think they are a bad trader if the lost x$'s for learning a lesson from the market? Most likely the answer is no.

Finally, why should someone use their time to write about how "bad" or "unprofitable" trader they are? For those that have come across mindsets for this industry, they will generally not think this way. Also, they are not accountable to random strangers online.

My view: We shouldn't care or we shouldn't seek how profitable someone is when it is not important to us. This takes away from our own focus of ourselves. Who cares is Fred is making $10,000/ month from trading, it doesn't provide you with any benefit, but takes away mental power, energy and may even drive you to make poor choices to be like Fred. Since you are not Fred, you will fail, so don't be like Fred (sorry if anyone is named Fred here).

One catch: Unless, you are to make an arrangement that they will take you under their wing to teach you, for a fee of course, only then it becomes your problem to ask their credential proof of profitability and label them with your bias as not a "Bad" trader and worthy to teach you.

Final final note: People with Genuine Kindness are incredibly hard to come by that may want to share their story no matter how much funds were lost or those that would take you under their wing to guide while being honest about what is achievable.

Hope you find something of value in this post

Kind Regards,
Tzamo

Now, humans are almost hard wired mentally to not want to lose things. Losing something = Bad to our subconscious.

Yet, accepting losses is a requisite to good trading. Trading goes against human nature in many ways, especially on a psychological level.


Those that desire to maintain a personal image will avoid disclosing things that will make them seem inferior to fellow humans. I am guessing we each have several personal images to maintain such as "real", "online" and "Public General Everyday". I will not go into detail of how the brain works here, so anyone interested should search on google

Just a simple example, when a trader is asked, 'Are you profitable in trading currently?'
How should the trader respond? Of course the trader has the right not to answer the question. I would have preferred the trader answered honestly, without the need to go into details.
But what does it says here? The person who is asking about it will not be able to know for sure whether the trader is a profitable or a losing trader. If that trader is at the same time giving advice and teaching strategies on trading, but could not even confess his performance level in trading. What does it say about the trader?

This applies especially in trading forums. It is important to know whether a trader giving advice and teaching strategies is trading profitably.

A lot of traders has the misconception that if they tell the truth about their trading performance it would make look bad / silly. I strongly feel that truth and honesty is way more important than one's ego / 'face'. Truth and honesty is what is seriously lacking in the trading industry, ranging from retail up to teaching gurus level.

My most important point ->

A losing trader does not equate to a bad trader. It's just a simple fact that trading is extremely difficult. There is nothing to be ashamed of to confess that one is not making money from trading. Like come on, 95% of all retail traders are also going through similar thing.

A losing trader can know a lot about trading, and has tons of experience to share. He knows what to do and what 'not to do' in trading.
The reasons he or she is not making money might be because of simply consecutive wrong predictions about the next market movement (leading to bad entries, missing trades), and not getting net profit due to poor R:R; not because he is bad at trading.


There is also a poor understanding by what it means to be "bad" in trading.

A bad trader is a trader who
- trades with emotion
- trades like gambling
- never try to improve or learn from mistakes
- trades big
- martingale
- let losses run into huge losses
- take profit way too early

I do not see myself as a successful trader. However I do not see myself as a bad trader either, as I always do my best to practise good trading habits, like risk managing, position sizing.

Know the distinction between a bad trader and a losing trader.

A losing trader can also be a good trader

A losing trader who is a good trader is totally qualified to give basic general advice and teach strategies to learning traders.



Finally, why should someone use their time to write about how "bad" or "unprofitable" trader they are? For those that have come across mindsets for this industry, they will generally not think this way. Also, they are not accountable to random strangers online.

My view: We shouldn't care or we shouldn't seek how profitable someone is when it is not important to us.

I have already explain bad and unprofitable are not the same thing.

Reread the earlier parts.

I feel more comfortable conversing with people/traders who are open about their performance and have nothing to hide, irl and online.

I guess I'm a loser by your definition - 6+ months of profitable returns in a row. I'm working on my fifth this month. We'll see if I make it to be a successful trader by the end of Summer. I don't mind being a loser when my NAV is greater than my initial trading capital and YTD return is also positive.

To prove a trader is successful, all he needs to do is post up the details of his strategy. This would allow anyone in doubt to prove it for themselves.

I don't know about others but I can actually tell whether a particular trader is truly successful or not just by checking at his live trade calls complete with fixed TP and SL. No TE or PL statements is necessary.

Hehe

There is no argument on the fact that majority of the traders are losers in the market and they are trying to hide this fact. I personally think that experts and successful forex traders are now expressing their ideas and success stories in this forex forum so that naïve traders can get an idea of the basic forex trading. Sometimes, it may happen that unsuccessful traders don’t share their views out of hesitation.

On the other hand, I see pro traders like to work silently even, they don’t share their profit on social media.

i admit . But today im getting somewhere to be profitable. currently losing some small $$ (consider fee ) i will not give up. MM is hard one. I believe that Higher timeframe is more easy to understand, just be patient and be ready for the real crs bulldozer to follow the trend. I CAN READ THE MARKET ALREADY, mostly!!

Fantastic post on a forum.




We don't like losing , there is hope , we may turn around the corner into profitable trading.We carry on in denial.The man who invented the light bulb failed 1,000 times.

With manual trading people believe systems will make you successful , so they are looking for another system , another indicator , price action or EA.

Elder released this after selling his books.

I have already given my reasons somewhere in my earlier post. Pls search for it if you really wish to know the reason. How did u see my post when you had ignored me..

Cheers be nice and happy trading.

GS

But buddy you have already ask me 3 times!!
And I had politely told you twice and now you are on it again...

How can we stay engaged when I am on your ignore list?