Institutional Equivalent Education?

I got a PM asking about how to get on Ray's course.:

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From: nttfx Subject: Ray's Course
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Hi ianF0ster,

Can u share on how to get to REay's course?
Thanks.
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If you have read so little of this thread that you don't know how to find details, then perhaps you should first look at whether the course is right for you.

Take a look at the videos here: https://www.compassproptraders.com/blog/

It is full-on Institutional style trading and teaching adapted for Retail Traders. It will all be recorded, but will probably last for 4 weeks with around 4hrs (perhaps more) of course sessions 4 days per week. And I strongly recommend that even if you attend the course sessions live, you still go through them again via the recordings. Because much of the content will be completely new to you, or even the opposite of what you have previously been taught. This will allow you to pause the recording so that you can take notes and screenshots. Don't imagine that you won't need to take your own notes.

So ask yourself 1. Do you have enough free time to study?

2. Are you passionate about trading? - If you just see it as a way to make money, then you probably won't do very well. There are easier ways to make money especially when just starting.

3. Ray teaches just about every type on Institutional trading that can be adapted so that us Retail Traders can trade it.
How well do you know yourself? Although the Self Help Group can assist you in finding the right trading style and market(s) for you, Ray puts it all out there and leave it to you to find your own personal trading style and markets. His successful students all trade differently.

4. Apart from the 'Value lines' Ray doesn't have much time for conventional indicators. Though he does use some Order Flow indicators for Scalping. Are you an indicator junkie?
- If so then you will find 'The MAX' courses (Google them) much more suitable for you.

If you are still interested it is best to Skype or email Kim Pingleton : Her Skype is forexkim her email is [email protected] to discuss it .
.

But here is the web page (not yet updated for the forthcoming course) : http://compassfx.com/compass/master-trading-training/

Reply to latest PM from nttfx.
Sorry I can't reply to your PM today except in here. FF only allow 'commercial members' a single PM per day and I used mine replying to your first PM.

Based upon your reply you have almost the ideal background to get the most out of Ray's course.
The earlybird deal is still available, so you get some free weeks in the live room before the class starts plus getting in at the same price as last year's class
(there is talk that the price may go up for this one since it will be bigger and better).

I still think it is best to contact Kim @CompassFX because the details of the new course are not yet finalised. Even the start date, currently expected to be 23rd July, may be dependent upon an Order Flow Indicator packaqe being ready for release (Ray has been testing it and showing us it for a few weeks now and it looks very good).

P.S. 3 other experience traders have joined in the last few months, so have not yet had a live course, but even though they have only had the recorded classes form last year plus the ongoing focus sessions in the live room they are all doing very well indeed both in their new knowledge and in their results.

I don't always do well in my trading. Sometimes I have a crazy day where I find myself ignoring the Longer Term Value and continually fading a trend with inevitable consequences.
Friday was such a day.
Somebody in Ray's room asked how I had done- this is my reply:

You were asking how I was doing today. I had a very bad day losing -15.3% that means that over this week I lost - 0.8%.
Which isn't too bad considering that my balance is actually higher than on Monday morning because my Broker paid last month's spread rebate (which was an addition of 8.7% to my account). (Yes I trade quite a lot 5 days per week and the total spread cost certainly mounts up in a month).
I suppose if you say that this week's trading should be worth 1/4 of a month's spread rebate then I was actually up by over 1% on this week's trading!

What would you say is better fundamental analysis or technical analysis. Also, what course would you recommend for a complete novice? Lastly,I want to know your views on which option is better for quick wealth building, being a business owner or day trading?

Hi XvII,

How interesting that you ask two questions and the honest answer to both of them is the same - 'It all depends!'

To state the obvious: A successful scalper needs Technical Analysis(and really Order Flow too), but can do fine with no Fundamental Analysis.
A Long Term trader/investor needs Fundamental Analysis , but can do fine without Technical Analysis.

A day swing trader really needs both. If they are to do really well at it, though many reasonably successful day swing traders tend to ignore one or other (because they are lazy).

The best course for a complete novice is exactly the same as for somebody who has been around the block a few times and is still struggling. Learn from the best - what is the point in doing anything else? Both the complete novice and the person with lots of (bad) experience will find it difficult but they will have opposing difficulties:

The Novice in learning all this new stuff, but having nothing to un-learn.
The experienced trader in learning quite a lot of new stuff, but worst in having to un-learn so much garbage they have picked up over the years.


I want to know your views on which option is better for quick wealth building, being a business owner or day trading?
Neither of those (nor anything else I know of) is a means of quick wealth building. To get wealthy quickly you need a huge amount of luck. You should not buy/start a business relying upon luck, neither should you trade financial instruments or commodities relying upon luck!

I hope that you are having second thoughts.
For either trading (day trading or longer term trading), or for a business you need to have sufficient capital plus a means of living for long enough to make the venture is profitable (if ever).
Almost everybody who starts financial trading is under-capitalised. It is one of the hardest ways to make a living, you should only do it if you are passionate about it.
Ask yourself which would you rather do:
A). Watch an important match of your favourite sports team / attend a concert of your favourite artist?
Or B). Pit your wits, knowledge and skills against some of the most highly paid professionals in the world in a huge puzzle?

Unless the 2nd one of those comes close to the first, then forget about trading.

Best courses: either 'The MAX' a technicals based suite of courses - attend one of their free trading sessions to see if it is 'right for you'.
or 'Sharp Edge Trading' from CompassFX , a complete set of institutional level techniques and resources taught by Ray who is still working as a Quant/Strategist/Trader for a major Japanese institution. Watch some of the videos to which I have posted links and see if you like his approach.

Use Google to find the relevant web sites.

Thank you ianf0ster for your detailed reply. Can I get your option on max system compared to Ray teaching? Which do you view as better. Sorry if I have not worded my question probably, I'm new to this stuff.

Quoting Xvll

Disliked

Thank you ianf0ster for your detailed reply. Can I get your option on max system compared to Ray teaching? Which do you view as better. Sorry if I have not worded my question probably, I'm new to this stuff.

Ignored

Xvll,
I consider both courses to be very good, but they are mostly suited o very different students. That was why I suggested you check out some the the video recordings for each in order to see which one resonates with you the most.
I know people who have experience of both yet some prefer one and the rest prefer the other.
I have no way of knowing into which group you would be, but perhaps your own answer to these questions would help you to decide:

Are you the sort of person who wants to know 'Why/How' something works, not just that it does appear to work, before you will trust that it will work?

Are you happy to follow along with what other people do, or do you prefer to think about things and draw your own conclusions?

In general if you don't care about WHY something works and are happy to just follow the crowd, then you will likely be best suited to 'The MAX'.
If you need the reassurance of knowing WHY something works and are prepared to do your own independent thinking about things (Ray calls it building your own story as to what is happening), then you will likely be best suited to Ray's 'Sharp Edge Trading'.

Here is the latest email from Boris Schlossberg in which, because he doesn't go in for touchy-feely stuff he ignores some of the best points made in the Audio clip:

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Boris Schlossberg:
FOMO.

Fear of Missing Out is the dirtiest four-letter word in the trading language (it’s an acronym actually, but you get the idea)

In a great podcast Dr. Gary Dayton, ( http://traffic.libsyn.com/bettersyst...GaryDayton.mp3 ) who is a practicing psychologist and is also a trader, uses the example of a parade to show how our mind forces us to do things that we would normally never do. Most of us watch happily watch a parade from the sidelines, and while we may enjoy the floats and the marching and may even cheer on the participants, few of us have the temptation to run into the parade and become part of the show. In that situation, our mind is able to make a clear delineation between spectacle and observation -- what Dayton calls mindfulness -- that allows us to keep our distance from the action.

Markets, of course, are different. To trade them we need to be both a spectator and a participant and therein lies the rub. The emotional pull of price action inevitably captures us in its grip and we wind up chasing trades. Who amongst us hasn’t bought the top tick or sold the lowest bar only to see the trade rip our face off? Virtually every massive loss I’ve ever had started out as FOMO which then morphed into “add to the position” play and eventually a painful loss that was much bigger than it needed to be.


Yet, as Dr. Dayton points out the old Nancy Reagan just-say-no-use-your-willpower approach will always fail. No matter how many times we tell ourselves we shouldn’t chase -- we will because our mind is controlled by emotions and suppressing them will never work. I invite you to listen to the full podcast which goes into the neuropsychology of aspects of the human brain and amygdala impact on our actions, but suffice it to say that according to Dr. Dayton the only way we can get better control over FOMO is by practicing what he terms, “mindfulness” which is another way of saying meditation.

Now if you are like me, and meditation is as appealing to you as a root canal, if the thought of contemplating your toothbrush, or thinking about the slickness of the soap as you do the dishes is something you know you will never do, then I have a better idea that may appeal to the trader in you.

I call this trick -- “market mindfulness”. The idea is to imagine the absolute perfect form that your set up should take (see my column from a few weeks ago -- Plato trades FX) and then open up the charts and look for at least 10 or 20 examples of that setup. Not only will this exercise create “mindfulness” because it will force you to focus on what you love, but it will also serve another much more valuable purpose. By looking through 10 or 20 charts of your “perfect” setup every day you will build up the vital psychological distance you need to resist FOMO at every turn.

After all, once you know how a money making setup looks, anything that deviates from that is a lot easier to resist. And looking at the charts in the quiet of your home office is a lot more fun than meditating about your breathing.
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My observations:

1. Will what Boris is suggesting help our trading? - Yes, but it is something that we should already be doing, as Dr. Drayton mentions at the end of the Audio clip.

2. Will Dr. Drayton's 'Mindfullness' techniques work? - Yes, but unless you already have experience of Mindfullness they will take time to put into practice in our daily trading routine.

3. Dr. Drayton incorrectly states that we can only solve the 'Fear' or the 'FOMO' problem internally, since it is generated internally. - That is rubbish! Many traders using Ray's teachings, or those of 'The MAX' know of the huge improvements in both comfort and in trading results that come with trading with a Multi-exit technique. I personally believe that for best results, such a technique needs to be adjusted to the individual trader's personality and trading accuracy rather than using the catch-all generalised methods taught by 'The MAX' or the one that is taught by Ray. But for that a trader needs to both build up trade records and a knowledge of themselves - so it is best to start with an 'off the shelf' method.

I don't get much marketing stuff from 'The MAX' that I find suitable for this thread, but I did get some recently.
First a screenshot showing 'The MAX Standard' course versus 'The MAX ETF-Standard' course. The difference is their Enhanced Trade Format techniques.

http://img-ak.verticalresponse.com/m...20Standard.jpg


The something they got from a relatively new student called Don. Unfortunately Don doesn't say which version of the MAX he is trading, but I suspect it is either the Primer or the Lite.

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This is the first time that I didn't have a single losing day in 6 weeks of trading (mid May to July). I had several losing trades, but never a losing day ! ! My daily minimum target is 0.5% profit of my account total, but have been averaging closer to 1% lately. Most of my trades are under 2 hours, which gives me a good "hourly rate". I would rather make 0.5% in 2 hours, than 1% in 8 hours of trading.
I've had 436 unit trades in the last 3 months, and I'm getting better every week. Soon I'll have to adjust my minimal goal to 1%. (looking forward to it!).
Anyway, I'm very happy with my current setup, and I wanted to thank you for "keeping me in the game" when I was about to give up.Here are some numbers from the MT4 report for the last 30 days: Total Trades: 202
Short Positions (won %): 121 (81.82%) Long Positions (won %): 81 (83.95%)
Profit Trades (% of total): 167 (82.67%) Loss trades (% of total): 35 (17.33%)

Profit Factor: 7.21

Maximal Drawdown: (0.57%) Relative Drawdown: 0.57%
Maximum consecutive wins : 50 consecutive losses : 6
Average consecutive wins: 11 consecutive losses: 2
My goal is to continue increasing my winning rate, increase the profit/loss ratio, and diminish the number of trades (i.e., increase the quality of trades and decrease the quantity).

Cheers,
Don
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Thank you ianf0ster.

my email is { email address deleted by staff } i can help yu just writte me on my email
my skype is: anderson kissi135

As if things weren't bad enough for 'retail' traders in Europe, Boris Schlossberg and Kathy Lien are holding a webinar about how to deal with the ESMA leverage restrictions which come into force on 1st August.

They claim that :
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You will learn:

+ 3 Ways to Make the New Leverage Rules Work for You

+ How to Structure Your Own Leverage

+ The Importance of Proper Risk Control

And most importantly.....

Learn How Lower Leverage Can Make You MORE Profitable

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I have registered for this (though I will be too busy trading to attend it). But that way I will get a link to the recording and be able to see what B*S* they are peddling now! - Probably some sort of low leverage scalping.

Why am I sure that they have B*S* to peddle? - Because Leverage is a very good thing when used properly!

Banks make their money on loans, mortgages etc by using enormous leverage.

Just because most of my stock portfolio is in my wife's name I don't qualify under the European rules as being eligible to be considered a 'professional trader'.
So for my most consistent , most profitable trade (the Oil Inventories) my maximum leverage is reduced from 200:1 to just 10:1 . And this is supposed to be 'good for me' - LOL !

The whole ESMA is crazy, because the people it is really designed to protect will just go to an unregulated Broker somewhere were there are still some sharks! So the newbie Forex , CFD and Spreadbet traders who have tiny accounts and thus need huge leverage will be much more at risk than before!

There is a popular misconception that Leverage and Risk are roughly the same thing.

This is not true:

Consider a spot FX trade on GBP/USD of 1 standard Lot (100,000 units) at 1.3100
The Leverage is expressed by means of the Margin the Broker requires from you. So at a leverage of 1:1, the broker would reserve $131,000 from your account.
But the Risk on the trade is expressed by a Stop Loss (in theory it would have to be a guaranteed Stop Loss, since under unusual conditions a market can skip prices in a most dramatic fashion).
For this example I will take the absolute minimum sensible Stop Loss for a currency pair such as the G/U, which is 10 pips.
So the risk on the trade is only $100, yet we had to put up a Margin of $131,000 (meaning that we would need a $131,010 account size in order to open the trade (assuming a 1 pip spread).

Now consider my Oil Inventories trades on which (due to the ESMA) I will soon only have a leverage of 10:1
Oil is roughly $68 per barrel and the CFD is notionally per 100 barrels.
So at a leverage of 1:1 I would need $6,803 in my account to open a single unit trade (since my spread is 3 cents).
Thus with a $10,000 account and the new Max leverage of 10:1, the absolute maximum number of 100 barrel unit trades I could open is 14.
A reasonable Stop Loss on Oil is 15 ticks, so even when leveraged to the hilt I would only be risking $210 on a $10K account!
NOTE: I am NOT saying that a trader should trade news events such as the Oil Inventories with such a small Stop Loss, just what is a reasonable minimum Stop Loss for day trading during normal market conditions.

Wow, Boris and Kathy have a new list of things they are covering in their webinar tomorrow.
These ones are much less interesting, but on the other hand they are not obvious B*S* !

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http://files.constantcontact.com/7bd...2fc1dd9c99.jpg
Dear Ian
Regulators around the world are cutting leverage and its only a matter of time before you're affected.

Don't be caught by surprise and learn how to make money with lower leverage limits.

For years now, traders in Asia had to live with 20:1 (Hong Kong) or 25:1 (Japan) lever and as a group they are traditionally the most profitable forex traders.

In this very special FREE webinar, we'll discuss;

1. ALL of the New Leverage Rules Coming to Europe
2. How HK and Japanese Traders Make Money with Lower Leverage
3. How to Achieve Leverage with No Gearing At All
4. And the Proper Position Sizing for Different Trading Strategies

Join us at 13 GMT on Thursday July 19
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My Observations:
They say that traders in Asia 'as a group' are traditionally the most profitable forex traders.
I say:
A). Losing less money would make them 'the most profitable as a group'! So smaller leverage would work in their favour because they wouldn't be allowed to take a decent sized position and thus when they lose, they lose smaller. - But is this a good thing? Surely we want to make money, not just lose smaller amounts. Unless it is part of a program of continuous improvement, which in this case it is not!

1. No sh1t Sherlock! Of course you need take the 30 seconds to explain the changes- LOL !

2. How they make a pathetic small amount of money? or How they can make as much money as they would if they had access to higher (decent) Leverage?

3. Boris claims to have invented this 'Leverage with no gearing' technique. What it is actually, is just taking more trades per day - LOL !

4. Oh really? What makes Boris and Kathy experts in position sizing for different strategies? - Is it their pathetically poor profits? I bet they only cover position sizing for their own very basic strategies and don't deal with Multi-Unit,Multi -entry, Multi-exit flexible 'institutional' trade management strategies such as Ray inspired me to use with a better than 80% win rate!

Here is an article from Lance Beggs of 'Your Trading Coach' about the process of learning to trade (a new market or style) by stages and Continual Improvement. He recommends using particular Trade Journaling Software - I don't use that, just Excel and hand written notes, but you must use something!

Attached File(s)

Lance_Beggs-on_Continual_Improvement_Process.doc   74 KB | 513 downloads

Another interesting post from Lance Beggs: Achieve the Mindset of a Champion in Actionable Steps.

Well I was 100% right with my predictions of the BKForex webinar (almost, since they weren't promoting some new low leveraged scalping EA).
The didn't say how a profitable Asian trader with low Leverage can make more money than that same trader could make with Higher Leverage.
Boris repeatedly spoke about Leverage as Risk.
Then he excused himself by saying that because of the following points Leverage is ultimately Leverage in practice:
1. Unpredictable sh1t happens like terrorism, nuclear war, Swiss National Bank saying one thing and doing another, which means that an ordinary Stop Loss won't trigger - though a Guaranteed Stop Loss should still do so even though your Broker will go belly-up!
2. Traders don't have the discipline to keep to their Stop Loss and will move it wider when it gets close to being hit.
3. Traders are greedy and so use all the leverage available rather than what they had planned to use.

Boris himself is an example against his argument since he claims to actually use less Leverage than his Broker allows (as does every other trader I know of at least until into a no-loss situation).
Naturally Boris ignored the whole 'Multi-unit flexible Trade Management scenario' which is used to such good effect in both Ray's and 'The MAX' teachings.

Here is a screen-shot from the BKForex webinar which shows how mixed up Boris is about Risk and Leverage:

Attachment g

So since Boris claims that Risk isn't size x Stop Loss, but really Max Leverage, how on earth can the 2 sets of figures in the screen-shot above be correct or even compatible with each other?

For Day Trading:
Take a $1K account trading E/U in an account with what will be the new (post ESMA) Max leverage allowed of 1:30.
1% of the account is $10
3 x equity is $3,000 so he is saying not to trade more than 3 Micro Lots and thus assuming E/U is 1.2000 your margin would be $120
40 pip risk x 1 micro Lot = 40 x $0.1 = $4 x number of Micro Lots, or if a 20pip SL then risking $2 x Micro Lots
So to conform to risking 1% of the account this is either 2 Micro Lots with a SL of 40, or 5 Micro Lots with a SL of 20.

So after determining that his size will be 2 or 3 or 5 Micro Lots, what does he consider to be his risk? - $8 to $10 or $3,000 ?
Or maybe $940 since if they can the broker would force a close out your trade before your equity was less than 50% of your Margin Requirement.
Which one of these vastly different numbers does Boris consider to be his Risk ?

For Swing Trading:
Using the same account size and Max Leverage etc.
2% of account is $20. Implying that swing trades are less risky than Day Trades.
1.5 x equity is $1,500 so he is saying not to trade more than 1 Micro Lot and assuming E/U is 1.2000 then your margin would be $40.
Implying that swing trades are more risky than Day Trades.
150 pip risk x 1 micro Lot is 150 x $0.1 = $15 -so you can trade only 1 Micro Lot, or if SL of 70 pips then you can still only trade 2 Micro Lots.

Thus his size will be only 1 Micro Lot - So although he allows for more Risk as a % of account size, he can't actually use it!
But again what does he consider his actual risk to be ? - $15 or $1,500 or $980 Yes $980 because the margin is now only $40 so the 'protection from the Broker closing the trade due to Margin is actually reduced !


Now how about Boris' great idea that you can compensate for lower margin by just taking more trades?
Well I can only see 2 possible ways of doing that:
1. You trade for twice as long per day.
2. You start taking trades which don't meet all your entry criteria.
Do either of those appeal to you?

OK, some people might say that instead of either of the above, you could just trade more markets, but the truth is that nearly all markets are correlated (either +ve or -ve) and so trading 2 markets at the same time you are taking the same basic trade - either doubling your risk, or hedging away your profit!

Boris Schlossberg agrees with me about the dangers of being in 2 or more trades at the same time (see the end of the prior post).
Here is his latest email:

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Dear Ian
The Absolutely Foolproof, Failsafe NYC Subway Trade
Presently, everybody hates the New York City subway.
The system is slow, overcrowded, rife with delays and costs about $200 per month to ride.
The single most popular connection between Brooklyn and Manhattan is being shut down for repairs for possibly years to come and the city has no solid plans for an alternative. In the summer the platforms are 120F during the day and in the winter they can be 20F at the night.
The Mayor hates the Governor, the Governor hates the Mayor and everyone in New York hates them both pining for the golden days of Mike Bloomberg who somehow without any monetary authority over the system (the subway is run by the state in New York) managed to clean it up and bring it kicking and screaming into the 21st century by actually installing electronic train arrival boards at every platform. That was the last innovation the system has seen this century.
The subway is such a sore subject with New Yorkers, that Miranda from Sex in the City is running for Governor of the State on this one issue alone, and while she is far behind Governor Cuomo right now, all it would take is one system-wide outage that lasts more than a day to kick his privileged ass out the door.

Still, despite all its shortcomings, the New York subway is a marvel of engineering. After London, it is the second oldest subway in the world with rail capacity that is greater than all the other subway systems in the US combined. Every day it moves more than 4 million people from point A to point B for a total annual ridership of more than a billion rides! That is a truly astounding achievement made more remarkable by the fact that amidst all that 24/7 movement of trains and people the system has had very few collisions in its history of operation.
(The one recent exception was the collision of two work trains that injured a subway worker last year -- an exception that proves the rule, as you will soon see)
How does the New York subway avoid train collisions?
Simple. It has an ironclad rule that no train can leave the station until the train ahead of it has left the station ahead.
In other words, the NYC subway never puts itself into a situation where a train is traveling towards a station that may already have a train parked in it. This simple but very effective risk management technique has probably saved more lives than any other rule in the history of the system.

I was thinking about the New York subway the other day as I was heading back to my desk to trade the US session. It has a lot to teach us about failsafe methods in day trading.
How many times have you found yourself in a position of being long EURUSD long GBPUSD long AUDUSD and short USDJPY all at the same time? While you may think that you are holding four separate positions you are in fact just holding one. In reality, you are short the dollar at four times your trading size.
It’s a hidden risk that few traders appreciate until it suddenly bites them in the ass. If the dollar suddenly strengthens you are stopped out not just once, but four times. The risk is even more magnified if you are also trading crosses that are all highly correlated. Of course, the setup can also go your way. If the dollar weakens all four positions will likely hit take profit.
However, in day trading where most profitable systems trade with a negative risk-reward payoff such a setup usually produces a wildly negative payoff in the long run.
But what if we took a page out of the NYC subway playbook?
What if we traded only one position at a time.
What if we didn’t take any trades until the first trade resolved in a profit or loss?
We would certainly miss some opportunities (probably less than you think) but on the other hand, we would have ironclad risk control on our account.
We would trade sequentially rather than contemporaneously and would be far less vulnerable to an adverse move.
Imagine the impact of a news bomb on your wrong-way perfectly correlated four contemporaneous positions that blow through all your stops and possibly even triggers a margin call. That is not a good place to be!

I fully understand that this one-train/one-trade structure may be a bit extreme for some of you.
Perhaps you may want to loosen your rules to a maximum of two trades at a time or even three.
Regardless of what you choose, we all have a lot to learn about risk control from the world’s least lovable but most active subway system.

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Ray will be doing a webinar tonight (tomorrow for some) at 19:00 Eastern Time (New York time) = midnight London time.

The only details I have are:

LIVE Institutional Market Insight Session with Ray Tuesday July 31st at 7:00 PM EASTERN
“Stop Making Mistakes”...know the markets you are trading, know what drives your market.
LOGIN: http://compassfx.webinato.com/sharpedge (Password: focus)
(No Registration Required to Attend This LIVE Event).


These are always recorded and so if you can't make it at that time, then you should be able to use the same details later in order to get into that Webinata room then look for a folder symbol at bottom right of screen and click on that to see all the recordings. There are several ones from last year in there.

Click on the one you want to open and then click on 'open in separate browser window.