My way to highway

What is your argument for this that the system is not working when he obviously states that he basically "lost his mind" a.k.a. emotions took over a.k.a. human error? Just wondering. It's not like he uses an EA that stopped working nor indicators that for some reason stopped working?

i believe that post834 was a reference to a previous one? some comments about open trades/current drawdown.
the TE is removed bcos the account doesnt exist anymore, and i dont mean equity wise, but physically. it could stay linked, but would never update anymore.
a statement of what happened does the job.
there was previous drawdowns, and nothing was hidden, you can refer back to febr28-marc2...back to back.
if you read carefully there was references about the why not exit, and in a need for prevention from the trader from himself. ( as well as not personal accounts where such was not the case).
i never said to show in the journal something that would change the trading world completely, it isnt the only thread one need to succeed.
it is a journal with its good and bad. shows what is possible, with the right focus, and what is possible with the wrong focus.
as for the views celebration, take it with a hint of irony, lot shorter running and lot shittier threads can amass millions of views in a month or two.

respectfully,
you never had a long hard look of what the main system is.
but let me clue you in: EQUITY SL.
if you are a fund manager as you claim to be, i am sure you are very familiar with the concept.
my failure: ignored this little two word thingy on my personal account ( not others).
the needed improvement: put more distance between trader and system.
work being done on that end my side.

as for the market manipulation,
it is nothing new, was and will be there.
your videos are not useful ( or should i say useless) for the simple reason that they dont offer a solution. in fact you offer as much credibility as any blank new member: zero. no one seen you trade live. a good handful seen me, after all running a TE shows for good and bad.
until you don't offer a solution side to the market manipulation, it is nothing but fancy theory video.
btw, scalping is very much about profiting this market manipulation. and may sound little strange from me, now, but something i am pretty good about.
(easy to let a single, one time human error blind one to the facts, but that scalping statement about me is -i know-correct!).

if you post here, pls only do a link to your post where the video is, and if you do post multiple time, use merger function to organize them into one after.
that way this thread will look more organized, less polluted.
that done, you are as welcome to post as any, as long as not get too far from the truth, and facts.

No need to justify anything, what's done is done and I was only looking back with criticism, yes, but a constructive one, at least I hope. I'm not better than you and I have learnt things by following your journal so I think it's the minimum to express my honest thinking because maybe, with luck, you will get something out of it.

hahahaha.
the man without experience is making commercial in any place.

babe, you wrote me in private PM total bullshit what any beginner already know, it was fun to see you was only a experience faker.
you have not one account that is running some years, because you killed account after account with your bullshit trading method. after you killed your money (and maybe money of your friends) you now start this bullshit with teaching to steal later money from people for selling you shit garbage to idiots , who cant see all you do is bullshit beginner level without content.

and for your fraud and scam plan you want to be celebrated?
you are such a thief in reality, trying as failed trader to get money from other for what you dont know, thats for sure.
you even write many many many small comments in your thread, so you have many thousands replies in your thread, and later celebrate your thread is so super running and dont mention that most of the replies is only you writing bullshit over bullshit.
you are really one of the most stupid scammer who tried bring in his lost money from trading by cheating the people in this forum.

Fractalfreak, don't get me started on your market manipulation crap!

let me put it in one word, price is all that matters. Nobody gives a philosophical shit and analysis paralysis on why the price went to where it went.

All market forces exhibits their effect on the price.

when the price goes up by 100 pips; don't think about why it went there; but rather think about how to ride it and take some $$ home.

anybody who places an order to buy or sell; is going to affect the price; so in your logic; all traders are manipulators.

Hi profit farmer,

apart from the main reason, namely your human error, (Equity SL not respected), and the consequent account blown, can you tell us if your recent move from your former office in the countryside to the new one in town has played a role in committing this mistake ?

Environment where we trade is an important factor, as an advantage you named a better internet connection, but probably where you are now there also many more distractions preventing 100% focus or it simply takes time to get used to the new arrangement.
I'm asking this because I'm going to change my trading office and therefore I'm too evaluating the pros/cons.

Last but not least, I think you are a great trader and from your trading style I borrowed a new idea that I'm currently trading in a profitable way.

Best regards,
Bubincka

hi bubincka,

a good question. i like it!
also happy you could find some helpful things to yourself in my journal for your trading!

the location change as a physical place and infrastructure had no negative effect on me.
the location, as in being far from family, and some family related issues like the next day birthday of my son and the inevitable long drive ahead etc had some negative effect on me.

the way better internet connection, the option to use aircon, better natural lights and more isolation from noises and distractions are definite positive.
but the more isolation, given the non trading hours of course has adverse effect too, and dont mean the loneliness part only, but generally being completely alone also that removes some framework from the day that the family give to it, ie like a more or less standard dinner time, etc.

of course, unless you move far most of these points should not arise( for me the move was pretty far, if and when the farm sold the family will also move).
i feel that for good trading one needs to feel comfortable, be have a set of familiarity and routine, and of course the right infrastructure to support it.
on top, a healthy dose of confidence, especially when trading results isnt going the very best.
what many takes as a poor way to receiving criticism, i look it as a way to partly shielding myself from the nastier ones, cos letting these things play too much too long on my mind will inevitable has a negative ways to influence me. ( i think more or less extent everyone has this in himself or herself).
a trader's job to keep a neutral mindset that is best to execute his trades.
for example, i dont much look to trading system threads or interactive threads during my trading time. also not interested on larger TF like daily analysis to read from broker, not even trader sentiments and COT data, etc., because i trade M5 chart, and that is where my entries and exits are, and that is where my reality is.

i think if your moving office not breaking up at most part your usual routine, there is a good chance it wont have any adverse effect on you.

happy trading!

I traded when I wasn't feeling well physically and ended the day with bunch of losers but I had to stop myself from damaging myself and my account any further when I knew I was now in the gambling mode and no longer reacting on sign.

I think when you're not 100% physically and that also somehow affects your mental stability and you can easily slip into buy this sell that whatever mode which can be very dangerous if not addressed right then and there before it gets too big and gets out of control.

I'm still in the figuring out process so with lack of knowledge naturally I used to operate on a gamble mode but as I progress I am building a framework and a filter system but from time to time like I said when I'm not feeling well I often feel myself slipping into that whatever mode.

+ for new traders or this may apply to already consistent traders I think preparation is key - when I am prepared on what to expect and different scenarios that can or may play out I do operate within my filter system and can usually "patiently" wait for relevant signs and act based off of the fact but when I am unprepared I become impatient I take on unnecessary trades and eventually turn on the gambling mode.

I think for all us whatever the trigger maybe for the gambling/whatever mode to activate for each one of us when it arise we need to immediately take action and address the root cause if possible so when the same things happens the next time and when you've become impatient or totally numb to losses maybe its a warning sign to let you know that you're going into a danger zone and its time to call off all trading activities.

If you keep hitting more losers than winners for me that's also a sign that I am not following the facts but just simply gambling and trying my luck, so the smart thing to do would be to take a step back analyze the situation and see if I am with the flow. I know its easier said than done. But this is helping me tremendously now that I have addressed the cause for my gamble mode. Its not that easy to halt trading when I am not feeling the tempo but its become much easier than before to stop trading.

That's been my experience. I'm not sure if it'd be any help to anyone

This is a very common phenomenon for traders, after all, we are human and it is very easy to fall into this kind of destructive behavior. If it ever happens, or you do not feel right for trading the markets at any given time, shut the computer and walk away. Once you truly find your rhythm with the markets and yourself, this erratic behaviour will cease to exist. There is absolutely no place for the gambling mentality as a trader, because although every trade we put on has an uncertain outcome, up until that moment when we pull the trigger we are or should be in total control. The preparation has been done, the risk/reward has been assessed, the opportunity has been recognized, and all there is left for us to do is to activate that which we have trained ourselves to do. It is science and must be treated as such, methodically and objectively. If you ever feel yourself mentally and/or physically not up to doing what you need to do on any trading day, walk away, take a break, a sleep, a walk/run or whatever you do to relax, and come back to the markets when you're in the right place. You'll save yourself a lot of money that way.

Absolutely !

I used to think I was wasting time to take a day or two off if I'm not 100% but now that I've experienced enough losers and some really bad days because I insisted on working regardless of the state that I was in I only wish I took the day off altogether.

It's human nature we have to go through the process ourselves to internalize everything. And as I said since I was still relatively new (4 years) I couldn't really differentiate between an opportunity or a gamble because I hadn't developed systematic or like you said scientific ways to approach the market. But I believe and as you said again as we collect more mileage and as we put the everything together there's going to be no space left for gambling it's only calculated risk based off of scientific reasoning.

But not feeling well physically or mentally ? rest for a day.
And I'm really going to start doing that from now on
And a good night sleep is a must for the amount of concentration and focus that the job requires you to.

Hey PF

Sorry to hear about the loss of the account. I've blown up some big accounts in the past and it is a bitter pill to swallow when it's solely due to momentary loss of self discipline. I'm also going to be trading out of Bangkok next year so this thread is very much of interest. I may have some questions.

I've not fully got up to speed on the thread yet so apologies if this attachment doesn't apply to you, but this might be useful.

You can install this DisciplineTrader EA, ideally on a VPS to avoid tampering with. The EA will close out all open trades once a specified % of equity DD has been hit.

It's not perfect since you can still open fresh trades in anger, although the EA does prevent opening fresh orders in other circumstances (total trades etc). I've not used it for a while so would need a good demo before applying it to live.

I'm actively looking for a better version of this that will disable the ability to open new trades (after % daily account loss reached) and will happily share if I find it. I may even pay a coder to develop it.

Cheers

self discipline is the key

easier said than done , but true

what I can add to your self examination PF , is that you were just about to break out of your HWM for the year and those psychological targets tend to have a negative influence on Traders :

" I am up 49 % , sh*t I wanna be up 50 % so I'll take that one more trade !!!! "

The one more trade which ends up killing the Trader himself , because you lose perspective on the trade and only focus on your * targets *

hi C-12,

thanks, it is a reminder to work harder to fail proof the discipline side.
but i live another day, and once some consolidation and transfers done, back to trading as normal. thai banks are a little slow.

Bkk/Thailand may not be an ideal timezone for trading ( depend what you do, but myself tend to trade mainly London-NY overlap), but it has other perks to make it up.

i have a similar EA ( attached) that was a while back coded for me, should work both as XX equity SL or %DD stop loss.
but bcos the trade copier i was not running this. also it is easy to override.
however, the trade copier software i use has a better solution, slightly, as it would need the copier re-attached to be able to place order, in the event of a stopout.
would be better distancing using it on a VPS, unfortunate, the execution between account is slightly better on local copying, vs remote/VPS.
added advantage also that it is easier to monitor execution, the fills and slippage, as they matter to a higher degree when scalping vs position/swing trading.
of course, the weakness also springs from there, obviously.
that said, for this lesson being both very expensive and fresh, i assume i will do better for the time being in the discipline area ( just as i had the previous 15 months).
just human, and as one, i do make mistakes.

interestingly i was thinking also some ideas to make more safe a stopout scenario, preventing any further order on the account during that day for example, but not yet came across a definite answer.
my best would probably be still that slave with higher % of capital running on a VPS, and i set and forget a password for the account. the downside is not being able to monitor for regular day to day work, and i can for sure tell that VPS doesnt work 100% of the time as it is said or supposed to.
of course, on the other hand it would be enough time to put between destructive mindset and able to execute a new trade just to probably miss that chance or to cool off.
that, if the old fashion discipline would not be enough.
well, something to think while waiting for the banking to be done, lol.

happy weekend!

hi

ok, make something clear, that probably wasnt that clear before unless someone read the journal more carefully.
the main/TE account was without target, from start to end.
it was about 8% up for the year, the last previous HWM being end of Jan, with 4%.
not to mention that due the back-to-back febr28-march2 loss on main, i was actually taking it very slowly to recover.
of course, being realistic, some loss was expected sooner rather than later, cos face it, after 50 consecutive positive trading days ( 2.5 months!) it was statistically likely to have a losing day.
so, it was sort of expected.
what was not expected to throw away the discipline in a crazy moment. i had some personal issues that relate there, of course not mentioning as an excuse, just as facts. it should be a day when i dont trade, or trade very light, as next day ( Friday) had other things to do, and wouldn't trade anyway.
normally i am more careful to enter trades on Friday, cos i dont leave open trades for the weekends.

since i trade multiple accounts ( only refer here to personals), i was not at all in a drawdown.
each and every month during that 15 months were positive, even those that shown up loss on the main/TE account ( febr and march).
although February was as low as 99$ for the whole month, combined performance of the accounts, it was still in green. the rest of the months were all categories better.

but i agree, swinging hard for a target is usually bad for the performance. thus you wont see many 40$ to 15k "challenges" succeed, etc.
i cant go back to change that day. in fact i cant do anything about that day, or that crazy moment, or losing the discipline then.
thus i try to focus on the things where i can still have a chance to make the difference...that is...the things to come, ie the next day, not the last day!
i have lost a skirmish, but the war hasnt been lost!

happy weekend!

sorry if i don't recall exactly and don't know all the details , but what i remember is that the last time i saw your FF TE your equity line looked something like that : that is the HWM i was referring to

but if that's not the case , my bad

Unfortunate I am unable to attach the accounts to show you. Those account numbers not existing anymore.
But admit my memory can be faulty, and there is thus a possibility exist you remember the things better than I do. Both this account, and the combination of the 3 I was referring to ( only this 1 was public, though a second had some performance reference here and there on the journal).

I appreciate the drawing.
As I said in the end of the last post, this is really a secondary matter now. The issue was discussed, and I think time to turn the focus ( or most of it the least) to the things ahead.
The past is an important part, but by all means not the only part of the big picture.

For example for such reasons I never even bother to mention taking some fun trades on a small leftover account, and making +25% in 3 days.
It is higher risk than I ever will trade on a meaningful equity size, it is higher dd% than I ever (again) want to see on a meaningful equity size, and it is a lot less money that would be able to pay for the expenses for 3 days...
Ie. It is totally irrelevant, and thus not mentioned.

Just as it was irrelevant to the case that the blown up account made a lifetime -7.3% loss total. I still look at it as a fully blown up account, not really caring that 18k deposit stands against 17k withdrawals, and thus "only" 1.3k actual loss on that TE acct.

Some facts are more important than others. I feel at this matter HWM, in any relation, is an irrelevant fact. That wasn't any issue that drove me to the wrongdoing.

a few updates

AXI/PSY modified their criteria for aspiring prop traders, making it easier to qualify:
"There has been a revision to one of the inclusion criteria for the AxiSelect incubation program we run together with Axitrader. Traders with $1k in equity, a PsyQuationScore of 75 or more and a track record of 6 months (previously 9 months) or longer will automatically qualify for inclusion and receive immediate capital allocations. There are no interviews or maybes, if you meet the rules stated above and follow the steps on our website you will be running money in our AxiSelect program within 24hrs"

on the personal side,
i have things going forward. with half set up for now, but was able to trade a little during the NFP.
i am looking to complete the remaining things next week, and from mid-month trading will/should be back to normal routine.
to spend some idle time usefully, i was teaching 2 person ( for free of course!) in the meantime. always nice to know some of you.
one Egyptian, one Hungarian. trading is international activity!

so still alive, well, and positive looking forward!!

happy trading!

Dear Journal Readers,

I have also had the opportunity to have a few 1-1 sessions with Profitfarmer and I'd like to share my experiences with the community. I will split my post into four sections, covering A) How we got in touch and what we've talked about during our sessions B) What I've learned and what I found especially useful C) What I believe his aim is with this journal D) My own plans for the future and how I can rely on him.

A) I originally started reading this journal about three weeks ago and was immediately struck by the level of honesty and transparency that Profitfarmer provided. As soon as I reached page 5, I sent him a PM thanking him for sharing all his experiences (the good, the bad and the ugly, as he often puts it), since I believe this level of unbiased information is quite scarce on FF. I also mentioned that I am busily writing down questions and I while I'm sure most of them will get answered as I progress through the journal, would he mind if I asked them at the end. I received a swift and friendly reply to my PM, stating that I can ask question whenever I like, so we exchanged skype usernames and so my sessions began.

I would like to mention here that these session where completely free, but I'll probably say more about this in section C).

During our skype calls we covered various subjects such as trading expectations, prop trading, money and risk management, his trading approach (swing and scalp), and a few stories about his personal life and experiences. Although I thought I only had a few questions written down, it's important to mention that Profitfarmer is a great storyteller. The amount of information he shared and the level of detail he provided to answer each question was quite amazing. After our first 2-3 hour session we had barely covered 15% of all my questions, but he ended the call with a casual "Talk to you tomorrow", so I knew this was the start of a long, but mind opening process for me. Over the next two weeks we talked for many hours pretty much each day and I must admit I received way more than I originally expected.

B) To be honest, what I found most useful was Profitfarmer assisting in putting the pieces together in my mind. As he mentions multiple times in his journal, he doesn't use any top secret strategy or privately developed indicator. His money management approach has been around for decades and I'm sure many of us have heard of people trading for a living, with or without prop deals. What I found really helpful was getting to know Profitfarmer and having him as an inspiration.

It's one thing knowing that professional traders exist (who trades for a living), but actually spending time with one gives you a very different perspective. Beginner traders tend over complicate things and modify their approach whenever they loose. This is an instinctive reaction to try to minimise risk and negative emotions. It's also difficult as a newbie trader, since learning to trade on your own isn't like learning something in school. Their isn't a teacher who tells you "This is how you solve a quadratic equation" and you're done. Here there are many solutions to an equation with even more teachers and the worst part is that some (if not most) solutions just won't work for you. Then you have to tackle the question of can you trust your teacher. It might be that I'm just too sceptical of people, but in my experience, 98% of teacher are just after your money and don't truly want to help you.

Based on the above it's really hard to find and stick to an approach mostly because of the lack of trust. You simply don't know if this method will work long term and therefore most people just try something else. I have spent a few years in that hamster wheel and having the opportunity to talk to a professional trader (with a verified track record) gives me the confidence to stick to the approach and trust that it has a positive expectancy in the long term.

C) In total I've probably spent about thirty to forty hours talking to Profitfarmer over skype and he hasn't charged a penny for it. The only thing he asked in return was that I share my honest and uncensored opinion in the journal so that others may learn from my experiences. I honestly believe that his motivation behind these sessions and with this journal isn't financial at all, but instead to serve and a positive example versus the 98% of "teachers", a.k.a. the scammers.

If you want to treat trading as a business, you have to have realistic expectations. Doubling an account in a month isn't sustainable long term. Turning 100$ into a million isn't something a professional trader would do. A Pro might turn 100k into 10M, but even that would probably take them more than a decade. Don't take anyone seriously with an account of a few hundred dollars. When the world's top managers only have an annual average return of 20-25%/year (but over a 40+ year career), then how serious do you think the "Doubled my account in a month" guys are? Profitfarmer shoots for 2-10%/month, giving him 25+%/year. This is higher the top managers, but that because his account is much smaller than theirs. Once you get to the billions, leverage and scalability become more of an issue, so overall I've believe his expectations are realistic and sustainable.

For me, this journal has served as a light, a beacon of hope in a forum of pitch black darkness. It shows what can be realistically achieved and tries to battle those, who want to sell fake dreams with catchy thread titles. It isn't many hundreds of pages long either, therefore it's easily readable and I'd recommend anyone who is serious about trading to do so.

D) It's important to mention that in the first few weeks of our sessions, we covered all subject from a theoretical standpoint, but I'm sure most of you have experienced that applying theory in practice isn't always that easy. Last week Profitfarmer and I had a few live sessions together and that is where my jaw really dropped.

It's one thing knowing a few rules of thumb, but having the experience to know how each currency specifically reacts to certain news reports is a whole new level. Let's take a random example: imagine if you knew the price action for seven out of ten NFPs, with only the initial direction being the variable. Since Profitfarmer trades a mean reversion strategy, he tends to fade a news spike, but knowing upfront with a high probability what shape a certain currency's spike will have gives you a huge edge when it comes to timing your entries. Will it shoot up, then come back down immediately? Will it shoot up, then continue in the direction slowly, before turning around? Will it shoot up, pullback and then try again, forming a double top before dropping? Profitfarmer knows each currency's usual reaction based on his years of experience and therefore has a huge edge while trading.

In the future I hope to have as many sessions with him as possible, since these minor details can only be learned through live experiences. So far he hasn't once mentioned that I'm taking up too much of his time, so I hope he doesn't mind mentoring me going forward. He has been truly honest and remarkably friendly with me and it has been an amazing experience to learn so much from him.

I hope others will be as lucky as I have, but step 1 is to read the journal

Cheers,
Peter

i'll only quote this to summarize coz it's the best part

in FF the list is full of people chasing unrealistic returns

Thank you Peter for the review!
I have had a good time too, and glad if the journal and the one on one time was helpful to you in many areas.
Peter doesn't mention he has a bachelor degree in Economics, but I think I was able to show where the difference between education and theory vs hands on practice based learning is.

While the thread isn't busy, and I am posting less often, I like to reiterate that
- the ideas in the journal are good, valid, and worth to try to incorporate many of them
- I may mentor sometimes, on case by case bases, and for free. But if I do, I expect commitment: time and open mindset!

And of course, just if some wonders.
I am still alive, and still trading full time, for a living.

Happy trading!