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Institutional Equivalent Education?

  • #641
  • Jun 25, 2018 6:31am Jun 25, 2018 6:31am
Sam is a good trader, he taught me the ‘Sammy ‘ Oil Inventories Trade, and whenever we compare entries he always seems to have a better one than me – sometimes even better than Ray’s. I know that Sam trades multi-unit, multi-target on the Futures markets, mainly Bonds and Oil and I had seen him in my Forex Factory thread when I was posting things. So I asked for feedback on my documents.
I have corrected some typos in the following:

(04:02 am) Ian Foster: Only Scalpers need a 'Perfect Entry' and even they really need to use Multi-unit and Multi-Target in order to make it work properly.

(04:17 am) Sam D.: Agree on that, Ian. If your account is too small to trade more than just 1 futures contract then just don't do it. Trade CFDs or spot forex instead. [Here Captain Obvious speaking!] If you trade multiple lots/contracts always have a first target close by in. Like on oil 10 ticks or on Bonds 3-4 ticks and have your stop to BE then. Put your ego aside thinking 'I have to be right'. And be patient and alert when you are in a trade. When you are in a trade and your first target is NOT met yet but you see the value shifting then just close the trade or bump up your SL to BE. I will do the last option.
(05:23 am) Sam Van Doorn: Ian, about the document. I trust you about all the numbers you mentioned are correct. To me the important things in trading is
1. Just push the f*cking button and
2. Be disciplined in what you do. Don't make exceptions for your ego.
I always have the first targets really close to the entry. I never set goals for the day like having a pip/tick target or percentage target.
I never get when people saying I have reached my daily target and stop trading for that day/week. First that's not 'professional' and second when you are in a good flow try to stay in it. Sometimes you have some of these days that whatever you do it is profitable. So you must be really STUPID to stop then. Also setting a daily target can make you see opportunities that really are not. Besides that the stress it will give you.
Also besides the targets close by I will always take profits at levels, like SR levels, wholesale levels. I will never look at percentages win/loss but that's personal.
(05:24 am) Sam D.: I also don't want to know how much I am in profit or loss at the moment. That will be psychologically too much info for me and will influence my decisions.

(05:52 am) Ian Foster: @Sam: Thanks. Yes we are very different regarding watching %win and current P&L. Though I don't pay much attention to current P&L, just in which direction it is going. But for my style I need the win% to tell me how well in tune I am with the markets.. If it tells me that I am not much in tune, then I will start to only take the better scoring (higher quality) trades, or reduce the risk by reducing the number of levels used for potential entries.
However I didn't mention any of that stuff in the documents, but more in the other chat. So it seems you agree with the concept of the Inst Style Trade Mgmt document, but didn't check the numbers. Not surprising that you didn't check the numbers since the concept is what matters and the numbers are just a theoretical example.

Note that Sam mentioned multiple targets, but not multiple entries. So he probably doesn’t need to use multiple entry levels because his one-time multi-unit entries are so good in the first place.
I am not that good a trader and in any case suffer from the reduced accuracy of the Spot and CFD markets, so I make up for that by using multiple entry levels.
  • #642
  • Jun 25, 2018 4:34pm Jun 25, 2018 4:34pm
Interesting,how this trade evolved.Here's my 2 cents. I trade only GBPJPY.
5 min TF. SL max 30 pips.Take profit from 30 pis up.
Sometimes I close loosing trade with 10-20 pips loss.Sometimes I take 10-20 pips profit.All depends on price action.No indicator just Heikin Ashi candels and 5 and 21 EMA.
As a money management. With 1000$ you can trade 3% risk per trade,it's 30$,with 30 pips stoploss it's 1$ per pip.
With minimum 600 pips monthly you can do 600$ profit from 1000$.
With 5000$ you can risk 150$ per trade 150/30SL = 5$ per pip.Do your math. eg last month was 23 winnig trades 12 loosing,Pips earned - 1080. Some day I got 30 pips,some day more,some day lost.
Remember never experienced 10 loosing trades.Not all lost trades were 30 pips each.Some of them are less.Higher loss -55 pips,Higher earner 150 pips.NO higher loss then 30 pips per trade.
No all winning trades were 30 pips.Few of them less and some of them more,even 100 and 150 pips.
No trades are kept overnight.I don;t trade asia session.It's me sleeping time.I usually wake up 3 hrs before London open and start looking for opportunities on 5 min TF.
Sometimes I make 30 pips before Frankfurt open.
Please spare me talks about being millionaire in 2 years.I do not trade those excel nonsense's. I don't do compounding. I'm trading small account ti make monthly living. It is not for everybody.Lot of monitor time is required.I do not raise stake per pips yet.I got my plane I made from experience and I'm trying to follow it. When I feel comfortable with larger stake per pip,I'll rise my capital and risk per trade.Always 3%. Do your math and backtest. Rinse,wash repeat.
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't,you're right. H.F.
  • #643
  • Jun 26, 2018 7:21am Jun 26, 2018 7:21am
Quoting ianf0ster
sam is a good trader, he taught me the ‘sammy ‘ oil inventories trade, and whenever we compare entries he always seems to have a better one than me – sometimes even better than ray’s. I know that sam trades multi-unit, multi-target on the futures markets, mainly bonds and oil and i had seen him in my forex factory thread when i was posting things. So i asked for feedback on my documents. I have corrected some typos in the following: (04:02 am) ian foster: Only scalpers need a 'perfect entry' and even they really need to use multi-unit and multi-target...
hello ianfoster can i talk with yu in private message ?
  • #644
  • Jun 26, 2018 7:23am Jun 26, 2018 7:23am
Quoting Simply-Me
Lot of monitor time is required.
Simply-me, I agree on most you wrote. Except the 'lot of monitor time' part. If you know how the institutions trade and where they trade and you do your work every day you can guesstimate where and when to trade. Unless you scalp the markets of course. But from what I read you are definitely not a scalper :-D

But if you are happy with your results then who are we to tell you otherwise.
We can only tell you that institutions have totally different views how to trade.
  • #645
  • Jun 26, 2018 7:34am Jun 26, 2018 7:34am
Maybe on email if possible or skype?
  • #646
  • Jun 26, 2018 7:55am Jun 26, 2018 7:55am
Quoting Simply-Me
Interesting,how this trade evolved.Here's my 2 cents. I trade only GBPJPY. 5 min TF. SL max 30 pips.Take profit from 30 pis up. Sometimes I close loosing trade with 10-20 pips loss.Sometimes I take 10-20 pips profit.All depends on price action.No indicator just Heikin Ashi candels and 5 and 21 EMA. As a money management. With 1000$ you can trade 3% risk per trade,it's 30$,with 30 pips stoploss it's 1$ per pip. With minimum 600 pips monthly you can do 600$ profit from 1000$. With 5000$ you can risk 150$ per trade 150/30SL = 5$ per pip.Do your math....
Is there a point in this post?
Are you suggesting that you trade Institutional style, or that you've had institutional training?
  • #647
  • Jun 26, 2018 8:02am Jun 26, 2018 8:02am
Here is a follow-on document to my 'Institutional Style Trade Management for retail traders'.
It is about compounding an account, however this isn't what Institutions do, because mostly they are already so big that
they can't compound and still get their size on. Instead they just tout their expertise and pull in more funds from investors (on which they charge 2 and 20). That is 2% of funds under management plus 20% of any profit made..

Attached File(s)
File Type: doc The 8th Wonder of the World.doc   110 KB | 387 downloads
  • #648
  • Jun 27, 2018 2:17am Jun 27, 2018 2:17am
Quoting ianf0ster
{quote} Is there a point in this post? Are you suggesting that you trade Institutional style, or that you've had institutional training?
I apologize my friend.I was reading your thread and preparing to post somewhere else and by mistake I posted it here.My bad .
If you want me I will delete my post.
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't,you're right. H.F.
  • #649
  • Jun 27, 2018 4:29am Jun 27, 2018 4:29am
Quoting Simply-Me
{quote} I apologize my friend.I was reading your thread and preparing to post somewhere else and by mistake I posted it here.My bad . If you want me I will delete my post.
It can stay, no problem. I just like to keep the thread 'on-subject' otherwise there can be anarchy - LOL !
  • #650
  • Jun 27, 2018 5:02am Jun 27, 2018 5:02am
Quoting samidy
{quote} Endykone, it is not 'difficult' but it is very labor intensive. You have to do your work before you start trading every day. A lot of traders have the wrong mindset. They think they can trade profitable just by jumping behind their screen(s) without preperation. If you are willing to do that then you have to subscribe because this course will open your eyes how 'the big banks' trade(more or less). Then you are not 'trading in the shadow of the smart money' but WITH the smart money.
helllo samy can yu explain me a simple way to analyse volume correctly in relation with the price movement ?i m still looking for some money to suscribe to the sharp edge program so from now i watched the free session on prop trader blog the theorical course on ray private website ,Any advice from will be good because i m a beginner ,i really want to learn ray course .MAYBE IF IT SI POSSIBLE I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO YU BY EMAIL OR SKYPE :
  • #651
  • Jun 27, 2018 11:40am Jun 27, 2018 11:40am
The EIA Oil Inventories money making machine rolls on - again!

Here is the Sammy trade - though is is still quite early, so there is still time for more.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: OI-Sammy-Trade-27June2018.png Size: 51 KB


This chart is of the WTI Oil CFD (it is set to UK time) and depending upon where you put your Stop Loss and whether you took TP1 and SL to BE at +10 ticks etc. you've had either 1 or 2 or perhaps even 3 trades (I would've had 2 longs but as usual was unable to trade the Sammy because of domestic duties).

When I get the chance to trade the Sammy, then I set my %risk up to 3% which is higher than the 2% I use for the Equity Index Volume Cycle trading, but less than I use on News Trading in general, which itself is less than I use on my style trading of first 30 minutes or so of the EIA Oil Inventories.
So I would have traded a single entry level each time consisting of 3 notional units each risking 1% of my account. At +10 ticks I would have exited my 1st unit an set SL on the remainder to BE+1.
My SL would have been 1 tick above the Sell order so the size would be 22 ticks including spread. and I would have made +10 ticks on the 1st unit and +1 ticks on the remaining 2 units = so 1% x 12/22 = +0.6% profit on the first trade.

On the second trade I would have been underwater for less than 5 minutes, but it wouldn't have taken out my SL on the initial 5 min candle, so I would have reached TP1 (+10 ticks) and TP2 (at 1 tick below the prior swing High) for 33 ticks. It is then almost certain that I would have done a final exit at 72.99 for +49 ticks on the 3rd unit. So a total of 10+33+49 = 82 ticks of profit or 1% x 82/22 = +3.7% on the 2nd trade.

So a total of +4.3% on the whole Sammy trade so far.

My actual trading for the first 30min of the Oil Inventories yielded rather more:
(11:09 am) Francisco C...: @Ian... Could you post here your Inventory levels please? Sir! and do not copy @Sam ones!

(11:13 am) Ian Foster: The levels for the CFD are 72.27 to 72.46. Thus for the OI 30min Sammy trade 72.26 is a sell and 72.47 is a buy - but I won't be trading it because of household committments.

(11:18 am) Ian Foster: On the OI today 1 made +8.5% , 15 trade parts with 3 losers. For the day I made a total of +9.2 % , 50 trade parts, 8 losses : so 84% winners for a satisfactory day



  • #652
  • Jun 29, 2018 11:27am Jun 29, 2018 11:27am
Some people asked about my trading performance for today and this week, after recording a +19% week last week.

In the following posts from Ray's room I have edited out the typos and protected Stefan's identity, but otherwise this is an accurate record. Note that the Timestamps are in EST:

(10:48 am) Ian Foster: Equities are giving me nothing. I'm calling it a day unless something really compelling turns up. Current performance is: Daily profit 6.4%, 54 trade parts, 15 losers so a 72% win rate, which I think is OK in the circumstances.

(10:50 am) Ian Foster: The problem is that I traded quite poorly at first and even had a whole losing trade

(11:02 am) Ian Foster: OK my figures for the week are : Profit +32%, ( to be precise 32.046%) , 240 trade parts, 52 losers including 2 whole trade losses (which is a BAD week for that), but the win rate is respectable at 78%

(11:04 am) Ian Foster: I am starting to get into (Mr Carlsberg's) territory, except he does it in a day - LOL !

(11:03 am) Stefan F….: Ian what is your risk per trade?

(11:13 am) Ian Foster: @Stefan: It varies. On the Volume cycle trades which are nearly all DAX30 CFD and S&P500 CFD my max risk is around 2% per whole trade, for my rare 'Sammy' trades (Oil Inv 30min) it is around 3%, With my Currency News trades it is around 4% and with my Oil Inventories first 30min (spike) trades it is around 5%. They are done this way because of my trading record on them. I risk most on the trade types I have the best record on. The risk on the 'Sammy Trades would almost certainly be higher - if only I had done a larger number of them, in fact it would probably be higher than for my other Oil Inventories trades.

**********************************************************************************************************************************************

I know that this idea of risking more on the least risky trades is heresy to some trading gurus. But most of them probably can't distinguish between different trade types, or if the can they don't bother keeping records.
The original idea of linking the risk to the expectancy (or the %win rate) come from the world of gambling and is known as the Kelly Criteria. However a trader would be crazy to use the actual risk values that the actual Kelly Criteria gives.
So I just use the principle behind it and adjust the risk to meet my own trading comfort zone.
  • #653
  • Jun 30, 2018 5:17am Jun 30, 2018 5:17am
People ask because it's insane
19% isn't real.

You and every other retailer can't make 19% every week.

Stop talking shit
  • #654
  • Jun 30, 2018 5:21am Jun 30, 2018 5:21am
It's pretty obvious that this is another retail scam


"Learn institutional trading" LOL

WHAT A JOKE.
Just give it up. Nigerian shit
  • #655
  • Edited 10:51am Jun 30, 2018 10:38am | Edited 10:51am
LOL - must admit "retail scam" I think is a first

Have not seen one person out of the 300 people that are on the Skype group use that term before
  • #656
  • Jun 30, 2018 1:24pm Jun 30, 2018 1:24pm
Quoting Fader123
LOL - must admit "retail scam" I think is a first Have not seen one person out of the 300 people that are on the Skype group use that term before


Hi Fader,
I'm sure that even though you are fairly new to Ray's education, you will agree that it isn't (your normal) 'retail', nor is it a scam.
Also regarding my results and those of others in the group, do they seem suspiciously exceptional considering how much Ray is showing is available practically on a daily basis?

Don't all the recordings linked to from this thread show that Ray is teaching things that you can't (or can't easily) find anywhere else?

MLeslie,
I have actually posted (some) trade details from my Broker account in the past, including showing how a Demo account looks different to a Live one at at my Broker.
The most recent time I posted screenshots of my account was this on 18th May:
Quoting ianf0ster
These are the trade parts in question (plus a few more):
Quoting ianf0ster
https://gyazo.com/991d7a1e72f407c488771e3ccbce9b96 https://gyazo.com/5d56f2a4c939b3325af7ad73e0a6707b https://gyazo.com/0264e7c1822eb4a2b3294f133bc15820 https://gyazo.com/2d5eeda6366a6b9215d04afa48ea7818 https://gyazo.com/ab18c4360b3b14b8969763beadfa84a3



Of course account statements can be faked. So if I was charging any money for running the skype group, or for introducing students to Ray, then it would be only natural to be sceptical. BUT I'M NOT !

I'm just trying to help both others and myself become better traders.
  • #657
  • Jun 30, 2018 4:39pm Jun 30, 2018 4:39pm
Quoting ianf0ster
{quote} Hi Fader, I'm sure that even though you are fairly new to Ray's education, you will agree that it isn't (your normal) 'retail', nor is it a scam. Also regarding my results and those of others in the group, do they seem suspiciously exceptional considering how much Ray is showing is available practically on a daily basis? Don't all the recordings linked to from this thread show that Ray is teaching things that you can't (or can't easily) find anywhere else? MLeslie, I have actually posted (some) trade details from my Broker account in the...
Thanks Ian
I have taken 3 other courses by other ex-institutional traders and Ray is in a different league to them. For me it took about 2-3 months to get it- joined the end of Jan 18. My notes are circa 480 pages long. Are your results typical, well the people that I speak with on skype a fairly regular basis all do well. I have doubled and tripled the two accounts that I have over the last few months. Also I know that Nessy and Jennifer are just brilliant.
I would say that you have to put in the work and stick to a defined process - as you do with your oil inventory trades.
  • #658
  • Jul 1, 2018 6:09am Jul 1, 2018 6:09am
Here is an old post from Samidy about what is in my experience fairly easily achievable [After you have put in the work and learned how to trade your market(s)] at least a few times per month:


Quoting samidy
High percentage gains are nothing special. It totally depends on your stops. If your stops are small enough, a 10% day is more common then 1 or 2% day. For instance if you have a 2% stop on oil and your stop is 8 ticks then if you have 40 ticks profit(not unususal on oil) you have already a 10% profit on your account.
  • #659
  • Jul 1, 2018 6:25am Jul 1, 2018 6:25am
Many of Ray's students have tried courses by people who claimed to be ex-institutional traders. Some of those actually worked for an Institution but in the IT Department, some of them are ex-Order Takers which means they just executed currency exchange Orders for a Bank's commercial clients who might need to pay for goods imported, or pay wages in a foreign subsidiary etc.

It isn't surprising that compared to a Quant/Strategist/Prop Trader like Ray, they have little to offer to Retail traders, since they lack experience of speculative trading.

Quoting Fader123
{quote} Thanks Ian I have taken 3 other courses by other ex-institutional traders and Ray is in a different league to them. For me it took about 2-3 months to get it- joined the end of Jan 18. My notes are circa 480 pages long. Are your results typical, well the people that I speak with on skype a fairly regular basis all do well. I have doubled and tripled the two accounts that I have over the last few months. Also I know that Nessy and Jennifer are just brilliant. I would say that you have to put in the work and...
  • #660
  • Jul 1, 2018 6:28am Jul 1, 2018 6:28am
In fact some of Ray's retail students are themselves ex-institutional trades. I know one who is an ex-institutional Bond trader, who wanted to make some money for himself.
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