My way to highway

Only a quick note:
My being sick took a worse turn, and had to spend most of today in a local hospital.
Was told I should feel better in 5 days.
I think it won't be that long; hope I can continue the writing before. Maybe Sunday.
Thanks for all who read the past 3 posts as they were intended. Promise the rest will come, soon I am well enough.

Happy trading

Get well soon!!

Good effort but same result as everyone else. We get so caught up on how long one lasted instead of what they earned. Profit farmer failed and it is much easier to blame one one's emotions compared to their lack of skill or knowledge of how the market works.

Only the fittest survive ..

You entitled your opinion.
But probably expressing it in the wrong place?
Either case, if you feel you can't learn from this thread anything that useful for you, encourage you to look some where you can?!

PS. Approx 450 days.
PPS. There was reference about other accounts.
PPPS. There is a standing request to not polite this journal with BS.
PPPPS. Profitfarmer is not done!

Although Profit Farmer doesn't need any defending I would like to make few things clear for those who think his successful run is just like anyone who failed. May be it is may be not only time will show that. Trading is part of my life too and I have been through some of his experienceS as well. Non the less I am following his thread because there is more to learn, more to share. Everybody fails at some point, hedge funds , banks, any money manager basically. On average 15 to 20% of hedge funds world wide fails in their very first year of operation. And those who are successfull making 0.75 to 3 % on average per month. They are equiped with the most sophisticaed softwares, hiring top quants , matematicians and shapest guys on the block. Yet they fail as well. I am telling all this so you can understand the incredible task he has achieved as a retail trader for a start. He has inspired and motivated many not by his performance alone but with guts to show the difficult path he choose. It also doesn't matter if he fails or not just like "the others" you refer. But if you read from the very beginning of his thread or his other posts you can guess he will get back on his feet and show us the what makes a person successful; courage, determination, hard work. And we will keep on reading that gold edition of thread. If anyone who have guts to prove that they are great traders shall come up with proofs. Even so, it wouldn't give you the right to criticise negatively. If Profit Farmer is just like any other I wouldn't follow his thread. If you really believe he is lacking on skills or knowledge then I am afraid you have to check where you stand too.

Regards,

And I bet he thinks 15 months of consistent growth (maybe one or two month of minor DD in between) is somehow a lucky streak, that's one hell of a long luck ! and a consistent one never heard of luck being consistent and dependable , if there is such thing wouldn't be all want that with an insurance under a term that it'll produce consistent result for the next 1 year where we can do whatever we want, gamble away all our accounts sounds absurd and too good to be true ? because it is!

Come on we've all been here for a little while and we know how hard it is to produce consistent result for a period of 3 months let alone 15months and we all know without a proper skill/knowledge/mindset it is impossible to do that. I don't see any luck in PF's performance and the recent event as he explained in his earlier post was due to human error, it can happen to any successful trader - if and when it gets out of control any successful trader can fall under his own trap. The biggest enemy is within us - fear/greed/hope.

part 3. /2
money as motivation but in a different way

last time i wrote about different motivating options, and trying to find some self fulfillment in the otherwise monotone trading days.
it is just in most of our nature, trying to find interactions, connections, targets to achieve, status to achieve, respect to earn, or some like minded friends to find, etc.
however, have to face it, trading is a lone activity by large.
and beyond general ideas, sometimes for the better, perhaps.
i may, as a scalper be interested reading the analysis of a good swing trader, but ultimately it may just mess with my mind, as i am more focused what will happen in the next hour, than in the next 3 days. a scalper can change the trading direction 3-6-10 times on a pair within that 3 days!!
thus both can be successful, but paying too much attention to others may mess with the mindset, leads to overthinking, and can cause mistakes.

the same applies to the status aspect, with or without wanting, it brings in attention, expectations ( and sometimes the wrong kind). look, even this journal can divide ppl, i can very clearly see that when in some drawdown/hardship/loss suddenly ppl who were asking for help, looking for answers, or getting hopeful to learn something do a 180 degree turn and drop reading it like hot potato even as if everything would be lost.
yet others see it as it ever was, a journal, to motivate, share thoughts, and plenty valid points that wont be changed by one crazy moment when i lost my mind partly, for various reasons.
imagine if it would be a system thread, or a commercial thread, how things would be then!!
it both saddens and amazes the same time. but it doesnt give motivating.

we learn from trials and errors, (and asking the right questions, and sometimes saying the wrong things). it is a process.
in the previous post i was talking about different motivating forces, and how they can turn into equally demotivating when a trader doesnt find the same commitment from student or prop firm, or whatnot, what he was hoping/expecting/giving.

so, what is left then for motivating?

money.
yes, MONEY!
but in a different way!!

in my previous job, at sea, working a lot, i was in quieter moments thought a lot what is there for motivation.
there was 2 things, really.
money and free time ( freedom, if you wish, temporarily from that voluntary slavedom).
most familiar with the idea that money doesnt make one happier.
but does it make all who not having money happy then? not.
so, where is the truth then?
somewhere halfway...money can buy you freedom; freedom to do whatever you like, whenever you like it.
of course there is a basic living cost to cover, it varies for everyone, based on location, family status, etc.
for an example, i feel comfortable enough if i make 2000$ a month.
this can pay the bills, buy the groceries, keep us all comfortable. no restaurant meals every day, no maid, no designer clothes, no private jet...

my last job could do all this, and some more, probably giving me approx 2800$ a month on average. at the cost of approx 2600 work hours a year.
would i be interested enough/motivated enough in that situation to work more for even more money? not really, even that was a stretch. an average person in EU works approx 1600 hours a year.
BUT i could be motivated with more free time ( freedom).
there is 2 ways to go for that.
A. work less hours and make less money: i can get my number of hours lower, but at some point it will endanger my comfortable living threshold.
B. work less and make the same money: great but not likely in the job.

the point.
actually i found more motivation in the free time( freedom) aspect moving into full time trading than the income aspect.

of course, ideally, if rarely, this 2 aspects come hand in hand. i was found myself in that rare lucky situation!

while of the above seem to be sliding off track from money as motivation, i promise it isnt. just think the framework is necessary.
we talked about how not having money doesnt make one happy, and how having money doesnt make one happy per se.
and the middle ground, the importance of it.
know what makes you happy.
usually they arent not that big things that seem to come into mind at first. not those yachts, not those private jets, not even necessarily a ferrari.
of course, when that point comes, nothing wrong if you find that makes you happy.
i am more glad if i have an evening to cook dinner with my family together, than to drive to an expensive restaurant to eat...for some it is the opposite way, and both is fine and well.
important to know what is important to yourself.
then keep a focus on that.

change comes gradually are better sustainable.
in many sports, you can see that. start with simple moves, then gradually as your knowledge grow increase your repertory...push the boundaries of your world some.
even at competition, they dont start with the highest, even if many knows that the final results will be in approx what range. even if high jumpers can do 220cm, they tend to start the competition at 195cm, etc.

with money, it is the same thing.
one can hardly jump realities. we come from somewhere. we have certain life, certain comfort levels, and certain realities in our life.
money is great.
making more and more money is motivation.
but one should always remember that itself having 2x more money doesnt make 2x happier someone.
it is the things, like the freedom to do things, or as actual things, that money can buy can give some purpose for the money.

having 10$ or 20$ in your pocket, makes same little change to your life than having 10k or 20k on your bank account. itself, meaningless.
if my comfortable monthly living is 2000$ per month, making 3000$ or 8000$ a month by itself not make any difference in my life really.
YES, you read it correctly! NOTHING!

ONLY IF YOU EXPAND YOUR LIFESTYLE A LITTLE IT MAKES AN ACTUAL DIFFERENCE!
and to do that, one needs a balance.
a balanced way to go, as the most painful thing is to give up things involuntarily in life what one got used to. ( like the bank taking your house away, and you moving to a camper wagon to live...not equal you selling out your house to live in a camper wagon, BY CHOICE!)

i was talking about gradually, and how smaller things can also make an impact.
was talking about a middle ground.

we, as traders, often get too focused about growing the account, on the expense of that balance.
often, finding some sensible, doable shorter term targets, to sort of reward yourself or family for achievements, may be a good way.
money, as motivation, but in a different way.
not only double the account way.
between a 19 yr old Corolla and a Ferrari....there is many steps between those 2 that one can do.
between a trip to the zoo and a trip around the world there is many shorter duration trips to take that still can be considered a big adventure compare to the local zoo.
these X to million$ threads are in ultimates, but often the ultimates are so far fetched the whole big picture path get lost in the everyday process.
i also failed in this part some. ( and i dont mean on the blown account).
but it also reminded me that making 3k or 8k is just feel about the same, surprise surprise, UNLESS part of that extra utilized for something on top of the usual, to enhance or add to the usual everyday life something.

i know, this may be not that straightforward clear post.
but i hope some understands it as is.

happy trading!

100% agree , as with everything in life. There's always the process of diminishing returns.
As you earn more and more money the less and less it improve the quality of your life therefore the less and less time you should be spending earning said money.

some opinions back and forth if Profitfarmer has failed as a trader, or not, could show anything to give motivation to some or not.

some notes that worth to consider ( for the benefit of the new ones, or the ignorants not bother to read the full thread):

i scalp. i dont hold trades. in the 15 months the TE was running, especially 11 months of it, the account is pure scalping.
the results, if random, would be very surprising, and very unlikely distributed.
just purely for the fact that they arent trades that are opened, and if went against then stayed open days or weeks until able to close in a profit.
i did show on many runs that a consistent daily profit is doable, for real. did show it with realistic gains, moderate losses, and on a long stretch of time, over a year.
did show that 30-40-50 winning days can regularly string together. winning days, as in trading days....50 trading days is 2.5 month!! without a single losing day. not once.

i am not infallible to personal problems. but the scalping approach, the equity SL approach, the go for doable realistic profit approach, to aim for profitable days, weeks, months, by fighting a battle one day a time approach....they are all for real, doable, working, and valid ways, not just a theory, an idea or an opinion.
if one really want to find something on this thread, should strongly focus on those things.
(on top there is a lot more first hand info on this thread about the real works of prop trading than i found anywhere on this forum.)

happy trading!

15 months of constant profit only to have his account blown is on sitting says what about whom? Meerly having control isn't enough and we saw that this thread and the re moved TE. Maybe his purpose was to show everyone he could lastforever but how good is it when your followers and yourself burn your accounts. It isn't even to say that profitfarmer has a unique an amazimg system that produces 20% a month to say he can earn back all his losses.
Most of his traders were scalp but that doesn't mean he has a scalping system. Most of trades were taken on whims and it finally caught up to him as it does to most of us. Congrats on having an account which lasted the time it did but to not even have withdrawn even 5% of your profits says much about who you are and your expectations.


I would even go as far to say that youcare to much about how complete strangers view you. Why would you go as far to say that your startup accounts wereblown but the "others werent". Does that bring your margin called accounts back? Is that suppose to get your followers to rrust you again? Take my advice when i say that you should leave these threads alone, redeposit and keep your trades to yourself.

um, it really shows that you never bothered much to read the thread.
if you would, you would not make these crucial mistakes in your posts regarding the thread.
few major points, for a last time ( and i wont correct you again, but just fully ignore to answer since if you continuously show not to bother to read wont deserve answer!)
- the thread started before going full time trader
- it isnt a system thread, there is no followers!!
- there was never a talk to make 20% a months, where the hell you got those numbers??
- the TE is private set now, not much to look at on it.
- while the thread is not a system thread there is plenty evidence and reference to a set of entry criterias along those trades are taken.
- even the non scalping trades tended to last within the day, and since as said about the last 11 months on given account was purely scalping. ( to make that clear, from my mirroring account that only scalping trades had( 10 months): Avg. Trade Length:20m!!)
as for why not always scalping from the start: i was working full time, thus position/swing trade the first 4 months, mainly. similar principle, but H4 based, also had some reference and few trade calls here and there along that line, i am sure some can recall. once full time, and especially due the prop requirements on settling one style, (no style drift) i stayed with scalping, my preference. once again, this was also discussed here, not a new thing to regular readers.
- re: "Congrats on having an account which lasted the time it did but to not even have withdrawn even 5% of your profits says much about who you are and your expectations." making stupid assumptions out of the thin air makes one looks stupid...and i am not sure that is me this case. i dont own this really to anyone, least to you, but sometimes it is important to put things in better order.



it was, is, and will be a journal!
it was never about the money, but to share what can be possible to someone, if put the right mindset behind things, and also what can happen if one lose that focus, even for a short time.
it is a journey, mine.
can find motivation in it, can find it useless.
neither is a must.
but either way, i wont tolerate comments that based on facts from thin air, and trying to attack the core of the journal without bothering to read it.
if anything, my PM was never locked, and did always answered them.
completely useless to continuously go off topic on things like my financial situation on this account, or another.

happy trading!

PS:
since this was added later to a previous post:
"I would even go as far to say that youcare to much about how complete strangers view you. Why would you go as far to say that your startup accounts wereblown but the "others werent". Does that bring your margin called accounts back? Is that suppose to get your followers to rrust you again? Take my advice when i say that you should leave these threads alone, redeposit and keep your trades to yourself."

man, you are annoying! LOL
for a final time ( and joke over, it is a FINAL time!) asking, read the thread, or find a playground better suits your ignorance!
the reference was to prop accounts, accounts i was trading. there was plenty reference about those in the journal, and maybe it would come across to you as something new, many who interested to read the journal were interested in the prop trading side.
i am not too interested really in your readers, never even asked how your accounts ( happen to be same age as mine, if you would show full history) would look like without that custom start date. it is not my interest, nor my business.
thus one final time a statement: this is a journal, a journal thread. my journal. my trading life. my choices how much i share from it. there is no obligation, no system to follow, only some principles, views on trading, experiences i have been thru waking this path, some goods and some bads. life as is.
not for everyone, and probably not for you.
i can accept this thread isnt for you.
can you accept it too, and move on on your own?

Hello profitfarmer, at one point in your thread you offered to teach some people for free ( alphadude was one if my memory is still good) please make this offer available again

i had offered, actually multiple points. (and correct on 'alphadude', although he had pretty much all what he needs.)
the last was time was end of last month.
the last trader failed to commit the time, approx 4 x1.5 hours...my only request. rather a disappointment.
especially as he asked me in PM.

Honestly, there is no need to read through 74 pages of a thread when the end result is you losing not only your following but your account. I would like to thank you for proving my point about ypu caring more about what strangers think about then earning money be cause of that long essay which you wrote that supports my claim. Thhanks for p osting the snap of the picture which shows you have withdrawn but over a year and you only profitted 1100usd? Is that something to write home about?
You are corr ect about tbis being a trading jour nal but what were you planning to teach? Clearly it was your system. I am not trolling but just being brutally honest about what has happened here. If you had a trading system instead of a heads or tails mentality then you wouldnt have to come up with so many excuses and you wouldn't hVe to guide your past performance. I can also tell you that no one cares about your experience unless you arewinnning.

Doj't worry... No one will be pm'img you anymore.

Suddenly your half russian english is perfect-grammar english? Weird...

Iggy of all the guys here on FF you have just chosen the wrong one to criticize

PF is one of the most transparent , honest and trustworthy with a REAL TE going on for almost 17 moths , while most TEs here on FF don't last longer than 3 months

he's one of the few guys who actually admits having made a mistake , not photoshopping his TEs like others do

Just keep on trading your system on your thread for 17 months like PF has done and let's see if you will get Kudos if your system makes big money

but do not come over here to attack PF

Agreed: I have this saying "no good deed goes unpunished" I wish it was not true ...... PF was doing a good deed and went the extra mile showed his hand when almost everyone else plays with a concealed hand and he deserves encouragement and commendation but gets ? discouragement ? why? because no good deed goes unpunished it seems....and behind the scenes PF has been helpful with PMs spending time helping others that is largely unseen but has helped me for one and many others I am sure.
All the best and thank you PF you and people like you are the unheralded and often unthanked back bone of FF

Iggy is a one month special , I really can't see it lasting very long before he blows it up and moves thst custom date again.