The Philosopical Approach to Trading

Quoting yuna

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Hello traders(cultivators of virtue)

I've learnt a lot from this forum and i would say this is a great forum with a wealth of knowledge and wisdom and a willingness to share by traders. Now it's my turn to contribute to the community

I wanted to get away from trading for a while to get some "balance" and during my "getaway from trading period", something came to my mind automatically, and from there i gain some kind of "realization" However i've only a vague idea of this and wasn't really sure if i can convey it properly.

Nevertheless i'll try my best and present it to u all, keep in mind that, i'll bring u all go round and round jumping from topic to topic.Anyway u'll see the link because the world is linked and intertwined.

During my getaway, i cant totally get trading off my mind, so i focus on other things, eg martial arts. And u guess wat? Even in martial arts i also see trading, i relate martial arts to trading. Luckily it's a healthy link and not like being blinded by trading(in a sense tt being clouded). i think i cant completely get trading away from my mind.

So how do i relate martial art to trading?? At the basic level u go to school, choose a type of study that u prefer. then ur master will impart his skills in tt field of study to u. den ur master will tell u this famous saying: Martial art is not all about fighting only, it's an art, and it teaches not only fighting but discipline" (this is true if u ask any martial artist sure they are told by their master b4) oh man.. discipline..

What many martial artist fail to realise is that study(form)/kicks /punches etc impose limitations on u. yeah, kicks and punches are your weapon, but the problem is u are taught how to kick and punch in a rigid/fixed way. this act as a limitation and restrict u from the feel of the rythm. it prevents u from getting into the "zone" because u are taught to kick/punch and react in a certain way.if "certain" exist in martial arts, it will not be called an art. in other words, it obstructs u to be "free". it stops u from the "way"/"dao" At the higher level, u will forget all form/system and dance with the rythym. in the state of mind of quietness(not tt kind of total quiet) u'll not be thinking and u jus blend into the flow and react to ur opponent and u are dancing with the rhythym.u are jus like water and u are now "free"/"harmonious" and u'll be in the "zone" if one were to attain this stage and state of mind, he'll be on autopilot and act like a killing machine.
In reference to this , students are taught predefined methods first, before their creativity sets in, just like you need to know why certain techniques are design this way before you can add your own understanding to it.

The above paragraph is not totally i say, it was said by Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee also says, u have to be water, water has no memory(form), it jus flows and blends into anything. After all what is martial art? what is a duel? Martial art is an art and a fight is nothing but jus a dance ,a dance into the rhythym and flow..This is the dao/way of martial arts..
I am thinking trade with the trend ?

Now doesnt this ring a bell? it began to dawn to me tt trading is also an art. trading is definitely not science, because if it was science den no one will be working already.u jus need the formulae and facts and u'll get it right. and the statistic will be reversed such tt 95% are winners and the 5% losers are those who failed science in secondary school. In general terms, trading can be a bit of math in a sense tt technical analysis, but TA works in an assumption of the past affect the future. it links to me about fortune telling. the chinese fortune teller believe tt ur birth date and time can be used to predict ur future. yea it may be true to an extend, but the fortune teller forgets tt the will of a person can change it's destiny. another example is the experience u obtained in life and the way u are brought up/environment (past) affect the way u grow and the person u'll be (future) but again it's ur will tt determines what kind of person/who u wan to be. So the market will also move at its will.
The 95/5 ratio applies across many industry. TA is maths, actually so is the art part of trading. I dont quite understand the last few sentence, are you saying history repeats itself ? In ur understanding, care to explain more ?

Back to our topic, form/weapon(TA) impose limitations on us, and restrict us from the "truth". it teaches us a fixed way of perceiving the price. and it clouds our judgement, preventing us from seeing the "truth" and feeling the rythym. it's an irony tt TA is to help us to see the truth, but it not only never help us see the truth, it brings us further away from the truth. jus like sometimes the more u wan to find something(truth), the further u get away from it. For example in the sky there appears a cloud in a form of dragon, the observer says tt's a dragon, and tt a dragon in the sky signals a storm is approaching. the observer says so only because he was learned,because he noes what a dragon looks like. However it was jus a white piece of cotton(cloud) it is not a dragon. if u ask a child what was tt the child will say it's a cloud because children are simple and dunno wat a dragon is. so, using TA, it obstructs the flow of energy(price) into u because u are learned how to see it. now, there's no such thing as "how" to see it. u simply jus see it. Using TA, it teaches u to see the price in a "fixed" way, eg u have ur lines, trendlines Channels, fibo etc, u will tend to want to see the price in your way of perceiving it, hence u r biased and u do not uphold the law of unbiasness, which in turn stops the flow of energy(price/reality) into u.
True


So just like Bruce Lee said, we have to forget, and be like water, water has no memory(form), it jus flows and blends into anything. But note tt the "forget" does not mean tt kind of total forget, "detach" is a better word for it. we'll still be using TA but we are not biased and we are not stubborn on our analysis. just like Bruce Lee says to forget all form but he is still doing punches and kicks in a harmonious way.

Another thing to take note of is the above sentence tt was mentioned b4 "After all what is martial art? what is a duel? Martial art is an art and a fight is nothing but jus a dance ,a dance into the rhythm and flow.This is the dao/way of martial arts.." So what is trading? it is an art and trading is nothing but a dance too, a dance into the rhythm and harmonizing with the flow(momentum/trend/rhythym). Trading is just like living, afterall what is living, what is life? life is an art of harmony and harmonizing with the universe. just like when the sun rises we wake up and the sunsets(i mean at night) we retire, we are in harmony with the universe. i see a lot of "life" in trading also. ups and downs movement in the market are just like ups and down in life. Market is not predictable just like life is never predictable, u'll never know what happens tomorrow. in an uptrend, price does not move fully in one direction, within the uptrend there's up and down movement, just like life there's white in black and black in white, never a full black or white. there's also no smooth sailing forever in life, we may be smooth sailing for some time, then we meet our problems and we are stuck, but we learn from our setbacks and experience then we obtained our breakthrough of our obstacle and proceed further in life. that's why a trend does not last forever, it consolidates and gather more energy to go further, and when it obtains it's breakthrough/breakout, the trend resumes.

Hence, we should not treat trading as a means of making money only. we should treat it like an art(which it actually is an art IMO) and pursue to seek harmony with the universe(market). And taking trading as an art, we cultivate our virtues eg patience, discipline, perseverance, faith, honesty, unbiasness, tranquility state of mind(calm) etc etc to seek harmony. Most new traders(including me) perceive trading as a medium to create wealth. but that was a mistake at the very beginning, with the wrong perception we are unlikely to succeed. After my "realization", i realised trading is actually a medium for cultivation, to cultivate virtues to seek harmony in life and (obtain sainthood, LOL just kidding), but i think u get the idea. because when u seek harmony in trading equates to seeking harmony in life. u'll find tt ur character/personality grows, ur wealth grows, luck flows into u, and ur friends grows because i believe one who is in harmony has a high level of energy(lifeforce) and u'll tend to attract many ppl.
I find it hard to place money in secondary importance in trading. However trading do seek out the worst in people sometimes, thus we learn from there
Just like Bruce Lee, do u think he cares for the fame and money? no, he does it because he sees it as an art and tries to seek harmony, and through martial art he has found his meaning in life and cultivated virtues and obtained harmony in martial art which in turn obtain harmony in life.Money and fame are jus secondary to him, the primary was the Art. IMO i believe this is the main reason why 95% of the ppl fail in trading. In the first place we are very wrong at the beginning in a sense tt our perception of trading is wrong. And secondly, out of 100 people, how many do u think had cultivated all the virtues and obtained harmony? 5? i'm not saying everyone have bad character and has no virtues, but we are human beings and tt human beings means we are not perfect and need cultivation. And worse is we have the opposite of the virtues like impatience, undisciplined, undetermined, dishonesty etc etc. that's why i really feel that being a trader is jus like learning to be a zen master. we need to cultivate virtues and uphold/learn the dao/way of living/trading. i also believe tt those who have succeeded in trading have gd character/virtues etc, if not in the first place they will not have succeeded.
Applicable to most things you do, passion...
B4 i come to an end, i would hope tt traders who approach trading as a medium to wealth can sit down and really think about it, i sincerely hope tt we can take a philosophical approach to trading and we can grow not only our wealth, but grow our personality/character, virtues, wisdom and seek harmony in life. Through trading in a philosophical approach, we not only become richer but become a better person, selfless, a wiser person, more charamaristic, more happy, more fufilled, luckier person, and maybe spiritual(for those who wanna seek afterlife)

Also i have a question for experienced traders especially those who have succeeded,

1) does my thinking/perception make sense? or am i in my own world of storytelling which does not make sense and any link to the realworld? LOL
somewhat makes sense, however many succeddful people i know are geeks percieved to b living in their own world.
2) do u all take the same approach/perception as me for trading and eventually find success?
Mine is different, i see it as a game, i improve on it the way i improve my scores in computer games..

Lastly, all comments and opinions by any trader are welcomed!

Happy trading/cultivating,
sincerely wishing success for everyone

Regards

Yuna

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Quoting yuna

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So how do i relate martial art to trading?? At the basic level u go to school, choose a type of study that u prefer. then ur master will impart his skills in tt field of study to u. den ur master will tell u this famous saying: Martial art is not all about fighting only, it's an art, and it teaches not only fighting but discipline" (this is true if u ask any martial artist sure they are told by their master b4) oh man.. discipline..

it exists in every kind of practice.

Back to our topic, form/weapon(TA) impose limitations on us, and restrict us from the "truth". it teaches us a fixed way of perceiving the price. and it clouds our judgement, preventing us from seeing the "truth" and feeling the rythym. it's an irony tt TA is to help us to see the truth, but it not only never help us see the truth, it brings us further away from the truth. jus like sometimes the more u wan to find something(truth), the further u get away from it. For example in the sky there appears a cloud in a form of dragon, the observer says tt's a dragon, and tt a dragon in the sky signals a storm is approaching. the observer says so only because he was learned,because he noes what a dragon looks like. However it was jus a white piece of cotton(cloud) it is not a dragon. if u ask a child what was tt the child will say it's a cloud because children are simple and dunno wat a dragon is. so, using TA, it obstructs the flow of energy(price) into u because u are learned how to see it. now, there's no such thing as "how" to see it. u simply jus see it. Using TA, it teaches u to see the price in a "fixed" way, eg u have ur lines, trendlines Channels, fibo etc, u will tend to want to see the price in your way of perceiving it, hence u r biased and u do not uphold the law of unbiasness, which in turn stops the flow of energy(price/reality) into u.

Without a bias, decisions can't be made.
Assesment of the situation is important for spotting weaknesses.

Then there comes the variations of TA.
- First we have the prices, flowing in waves or what not
- Then we have the indicators assesing the price flow.
- We then add lines to determine points.

What does this all makes up? An Analysis? I leave it up to you to decide.
In reality we're simply trading the prices...where each merchant bargains for a good deal for himself.

So just like Bruce Lee said, we have to forget, and be like water, water has no memory(form), it jus flows and blends into anything. But note tt the "forget" does not mean tt kind of total forget, "detach" is a better word for it. we'll still be using TA but we are not biased and we are not stubborn on our analysis. just like Bruce Lee says to forget all form but he is still doing punches and kicks in a harmonious way.

Then what will become of you?
The water still has character, the path it flows are clearly defined. Its neccesary that you foresee and perceive whats ahead in order to arrive at a collected decision or are we just "arbitarily flowing"?

Another thing to take note of is the above sentence tt was mentioned b4 "After all what is martial art? what is a duel? Martial art is an art and a fight is nothing but jus a dance ,a dance into the rhythm and flow.This is the dao/way of martial arts.." So what is trading? it is an art and trading is nothing but a dance too, a dance into the rhythm and harmonizing with the flow(momentum/trend/rhythym). Trading is just like living, afterall what is living, what is life? life is an art of harmony and harmonizing with the universe. just like when the sun rises we wake up and the sunsets(i mean at night) we retire, we are in harmony with the universe. i see a lot of "life" in trading also. ups and downs movement in the market are just like ups and down in life. Market is not predictable just like life is never predictable, u'll never know what happens tomorrow. in an uptrend, price does not move fully in one direction, within the uptrend there's up and down movement, just like life there's white in black and black in white, never a full black or white. there's also no smooth sailing forever in life, we may be smooth sailing for some time, then we meet our problems and we are stuck, but we learn from our setbacks and experience then we obtained our breakthrough of our obstacle and proceed further in life. that's why a trend does not last forever, it consolidates and gather more energy to go further, and when it obtains it's breakthrough/breakout, the trend resumes.

and in the end thats what defines our characters, you need to have a form, and that form will need various assistance for it to perform tasks.

Water will not flow if there is not gravity and angle. Waves will not form if there is no moon. All these factors conform to give water its essence.

Thus i believe you still need to have a bias, it personfies your existence.

Hence, we should not treat trading as a means of making money only. we should treat it like an art(which it actually is an art IMO) and pursue to seek harmony with the universe(market). And taking trading as an art, we cultivate our virtues eg patience, discipline, perseverance, faith, honesty, unbiasness, tranquility state of mind(calm) etc etc to seek harmony. Most new traders(including me) perceive trading as a medium to create wealth. but that was a mistake at the very beginning, with the wrong perception we are unlikely to succeed. After my "realization", i realised trading is actually a medium for cultivation, to cultivate virtues to seek harmony in life and (obtain sainthood, LOL just kidding), but i think u get the idea. because when u seek harmony in trading equates to seeking harmony in life. u'll find tt ur character/personality grows, ur wealth grows, luck flows into u, and ur friends grows because i believe one who is in harmony has a high level of energy(lifeforce) and u'll tend to attract many ppl.

Nature has its ways of doing things. To each his own. Like someone used to say, "The money makes you right."

Also i have a question for experienced traders especially those who have succeeded,

im not sure if i fit the bill but nevertheless allow me to put forth a point or two

1) does my thinking/perception make sense? or am i in my own world of storytelling which does not make sense and any link to the realworld? LOL

i believe you are still new? correct me if i am wrong but i do have these ideas too (well not like yours but something of that sort). when i started out. Lets just say that we'll 'grow' out of it and still be happily trading.

2) do u all take the same approach/perception as me for trading and eventually find success?

Oppurtunity creates a bias. You wanna be right until you're proven wrong. .

Lastly, all comments and opinions by any trader are welcomed!

Happy trading/cultivating,
sincerely wishing success for everyone

Regards

Yuna

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Quoting aiyahmarklah

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Hi Yuna the length of thoughts you go into as a newbie is impressive. Develope your strengths and eliminate your weaknesses. Be steadfast to your method but be open to new ideas. Reap the pips thats what matters most.

Thank you for sharing

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Quote

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In reference to this , students are taught predefined methods first, before their creativity sets in, just like you need to know why certain techniques are design this way before you can add your own understanding to it.

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I am thinking trade with the trend ?

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Mine is different, i see it as a game, i improve on it the way i improve my scores in computer games..

Quoting Umairs2004

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Hi
Yuna you seem's young but you have a very good sense of depth in your word's... Ofcourse your perception make's a very good sence...
Thank's for your time and good thinking...
I really Like your thinking Approach...

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Quoting fising

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hI Yuna nice explain... I really Like your thinking Approach...

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Quoting aediaz1

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When you say you couldn't stop thinking forex and started to see everything as it, thats a sign of dedication and spending the right amount of time on fx, IMO.

You can make many correlation to trading; if you don't learn how to defense yourself, only kick and punch its like learning to execute orders without right stop loss. Sure you could last some rounds but in the end you will fail.

Keep up your good work, Yuna, you are improving every day

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Quoting jest1081

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Dear Yuna,

best regard
jest

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Then what will become of you?
The water still has character, the path it flows are clearly defined. Its neccesary that you foresee and perceive whats ahead in order to arrive at a collected decision or are we just "arbitarily flowing"?

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i believe you are still new? correct me if i am wrong but i do have these ideas too (well not like yours but something of that sort). when i started out. Lets just say that we'll 'grow' out of it and still be happily trading.

Quoting aiyahmarklah

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Wah Jest you sound so "cheem" too...

Maybe I lack a little "cheemness" in my trading.

Yuna is from the island of laksa and chicken rice too, KNS he is quite good for a beginner lor.

When trading gets the better of an individual, it does change a person's perspective somewhat. During my career, I used to be a "do first results later" type of person, not that bad. However when I started trading financial markets, I became a "whats the risk/reward first" type.

The principles may be different but the goal is the same.
It is interesting to note that many successful traders are historians, theologians, philosophers. Having second thoughts of going to business school....

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Quoting yuna

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Thanks for your kind words, haha young is one thing, ur environment and experience in life is another. i dun think i'm tt young anymore, maybe physically young but heart old alr, LOL. I like ur signature Umairs.

Yuna

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Quoting yuna

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Hey Mark, thanks for visiting, yea, i'll keep an open mind and continue learning/exploring and will always do.



Ya lo, tt's y i say at the basic level. but most students gets stuck at this stage and they dwell into this too much.



yes, but to be more precise i see it as going with the flow, eg it does not have to be in the main trend could be minor trend, major retracement or minor retracement or intra day trend, whatever. in short we've to be in the rythym in a sense tt what's happening now, and in simple terms means follow the market/movement



no, i'm saying history not nessecary always repeat itself. i'm using the fortune teller story to bring out tt there's no guarantee tt past determines the future. and also bring out the limitations of TA and tt nothing is certain.



u're right also, we should be serious yet not be too attached. this applies to any aspect in life i believe.

Yuna

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Quoting Dcb

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Yuna,
I enjoyed reading your thoughts. I think you are right on target. I prepare by prayer, and quieting my spirit before I start looking at the market I watch the changing of price as it is the heart of the market. When it accelerates, it is like it is getting excited in anticipation of starting its race to the goal. Happy trading

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Quoting yuna

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Hello traders(cultivators of virtue) I've learnt a lot from this forum and i would say this is a great forum with a wealth of knowledge and wisdom and a willingness to share by traders. Now it's my turn to contribute to the community *********

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Quoting yuna

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Hello traders(cultivators of virtue) I've learnt a lot from this forum and i would say this is a great forum with a wealth of knowledge and wisdom and a willingness to share by traders. Now it's my turn to contribute to the community I wanted to get away from trading for a while to get some "balance" and during my "getaway from trading period", something came to my mind automatically, and from there i gain some kind of "realization" However i've only a vague idea of this and wasn't really sure if i can convey it properly. Nevertheless i'll...

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