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Can YOU make money as a professional trader - Redux

  • #61
  • May 21, 2018 9:22am May 21, 2018 9:22am
Quoting Rennaissance
{quote} The desire for constant action irrespective of underlying conditions is the cause of many losses among speculators. Basically everything works some of the time, you cannot make money consistently with a strategy trading in all market conditions. If you don't know how to analyse the condition of the market, forget about being a consistent winner. Your strategy will be on and off.
Very good post.
Ecclesiastes 1:9
  • #62
  • May 21, 2018 9:29am May 21, 2018 9:29am
Quoting tincog
Great post, this is exactly what I have in mind. Been demo trading for some time now and been reading a lot. With proper psychology, money management and discipline I honestly feel that one should be able to make money in the fx market. But, often you read that people losing money. My take on this; a. YES You can REALLY make money if we target 1 to 2% growth weekly. compounding this is big b. Even if you have a good strategy, the broker doesn't let you make money beyond a certain successful period. This is my suspicion only I have a strong feeling...
Check around internet for brokers if you suspect your broker will not pay when you withdraw. I have only had one issue withdrawing and that was when broker went bankrupt.

Most brokers are market makers as they take the other side of your trade and bundle with other small players if it's balanced. If out of balance, they offset their position to the other side when too many small players on one side.
Ecclesiastes 1:9
  • #63
  • May 21, 2018 12:31pm May 21, 2018 12:31pm
Quoting aaven
{quote} Chake, "On the other hand, there are some very advanced algorithms in the market if you ask me, and it could be that when you start to make some money you will be spotted and reverse engineered in such a way that these algorithms take away your edge. (algorithms or advanced AI) I have seen a succesfull edge disappear 6 months after i started trading it, but that was in a tiny market." Could you please elaborate more on your experience when you get the time.
Well to start off i'm speculating, no proof whatsoever.
But what i saw was, i was making consistant profit for 6 months on a heavy tested and time invested strategy and all of a sudden it stopped, one losing day after another.
I agree with Renaissance, most strategy's will be on and off, but with this one i had the same experience a few years before, same thing, it worked for a couple months and then it just switched off, one loss day after another. Sure strategy's work and then they don't but it was years between with complete different macro economics, different months off the year... etc...
It makes one think..
Thats one of the reasons why i have switched to a bigger market where i would not stick out if i make some cash
Persistence will get it. Consistency will keep it.
  • #64
  • May 22, 2018 4:49am May 22, 2018 4:49am
Quoting Rennaissance
{quote} The desire for constant action irrespective of underlying conditions is the cause of many losses among speculators. Basically everything works some of the time, you cannot make money consistently with a strategy trading in all market conditions. If you don't know how to analyse the condition of the market, forget about being a consistent winner. Your strategy will be on and off.
Thanks Rennaissance for the inputs...
  • #65
  • May 22, 2018 4:50am May 22, 2018 4:50am
Quoting Chake
{quote} Well to start off i'm speculating, no proof whatsoever. But what i saw was, i was making consistant profit for 6 months on a heavy tested and time invested strategy and all of a sudden it stopped, one losing day after another. I agree with Renaissance, most strategy's will be on and off, but with this one i had the same experience a few years before, same thing, it worked for a couple months and then it just switched off, one loss day after another. Sure strategy's work and then they don't but it was years between with complete different...
Thanks Chake for sharing your experience...

A follow up question, in which market you were previously trading?
  • #66
  • May 22, 2018 10:18am May 22, 2018 10:18am
Quoting aaven
{quote} Thanks Chake for sharing your experience... A follow up question, in which market you were previously trading?
Futures, FTI (Dutch AEX Index future)
Persistence will get it. Consistency will keep it.
  • #67
  • May 22, 2018 7:39pm May 22, 2018 7:39pm
Quoting newbegger
{quote} Check around internet for brokers if you suspect your broker will not pay when you withdraw. I have only had one issue withdrawing and that was when broker went bankrupt. Most brokers are market makers as they take the other side of your trade and bundle with other small players if it's balanced. If out of balance, they offset their position to the other side when too many small players on one side.
Thanks newbegger for the experience note.
I stopped reading reviews because almost ALL the brokers have negative reviews when it comes to withdrawals. I realized that most of it is peoples fault who enter the market without much experience. Natural tendency.. only when something goes wrong you take the abusive side. On the other side, if you look around the fx forums most of the users are with over 2+ old or many with 10+ years.. so, it cant be that bad when you see users who are holding onto the market if it is that bad. So, IMO reviews should be read with that note in mind.

The reason for my skepticism is all the brokers' provide very high leverage and let you play. If someone is very good and starts making big money then that not in their interest. This is the thought that keeps punching me.

otherwise, I don't see a reason why you cant make money with fx market... how much is another question that keeps haunting me.
A new journey in life ...
  • #68
  • May 22, 2018 7:41pm May 22, 2018 7:41pm
Quoting Chake
{quote} Futures, FTI (Dutch AEX Index future)
Chake thanks for that note. I was of the opinion that futures is a better market to play with in case of fx is too hard to digest.

I'm stumped.
A new journey in life ...
  • #69
  • May 22, 2018 8:01pm May 22, 2018 8:01pm
Quoting newbegger
Greeting fellow traders! I am making second attempt to help the struggling new traders or to help those who have been around and are in the “almost there” category. ...
I haven't even read beyond the first two posts but I just wanted to say that I love your reference to Ecclesiastes 1:9. Thanks for sharing it, especially in this context.
  • #70
  • May 22, 2018 8:28pm May 22, 2018 8:28pm
Quoting newbegger
Is anyone getting an idea what (or better yet "where") the holy grail is?
Just finished reading all of the posts. Are you suggesting that the "holy grail" is to have rules and to follow them?
  • #71
  • May 22, 2018 8:43pm May 22, 2018 8:43pm
Quoting newbegger
Is anyone getting an idea what (or better yet "where") the holy grail is?
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9
A new journey in life ...
  • #72
  • May 23, 2018 3:34am May 23, 2018 3:34am
Quoting tincog
{quote} Chake thanks for that note. I was of the opinion that futures is a better market to play with in case of fx is too hard to digest. I'm stumped.
Hi tincoq,
It could well be.. it certainly is better regulated.
But all i said was that the FTI was a relative small market, there are lot's of bigger futures markets out there (Dax, Dow etc.)
Don't give up, invest small till you have something that is working.
And don't take my word for it, in fact don't take anyone's word, investigate all opinions and make up your own mind.
Persistence will get it. Consistency will keep it.
  • #73
  • May 23, 2018 5:05am May 23, 2018 5:05am
Quoting Chake
{quote} Futures, FTI (Dutch AEX Index future)
Thanks Chake... While it is relatively small, Index future as a standalone does have liquidity. Was your position size on the higher side?
  • #74
  • Edited 12:00pm May 23, 2018 10:24am | Edited 12:00pm
Quoting aaven
{quote} Thanks Chake... While it is relatively small, Index future as a standalone does have liquidity. Was your position size on the higher side?
No, it was not.
My best guess is the system i traded was too systematic, too easy to spot if you know what i mean.
But guys, i think here's where this speculation must end, it's a bit to many guesses and "i think" 's to be constructive.

Don't waste more time then you should on chit chat, get out there and test ideas untill everybody near you looses interest (i know i did LOL)
Then test some years more...
When i started trading everybody in my surrounding was very interested, and a lot of them wanted to know how much money i made (same can be said about a large group of beginning traders here in FF).
But offcourse i soon started to loose money, and then most lost interest.
Years later whenever i told my friends/family about trading, they wondered why i still spend time chasing this dream.
But that only made me more determined, so i got to thank them now i guess
I like to code and test systems, even if it took me many years with nothing to show for it, i think it helps when you have this mindset.
Stay persistent!
Persistence will get it. Consistency will keep it.
  • #75
  • May 23, 2018 12:24pm May 23, 2018 12:24pm
Quoting Chake
{quote} No, it was not. My best guess is the system i traded was too systematic, too easy to spot if you know what i mean. But guys, i think here's where this speculation must end, it's a bit to many guesses and "i think" 's to be constructive. Don't waste more time then you should on chit chat, get out there and test ideas untill everybody near you looses interest (i know i did LOL) Then test some years more... When i started trading everybody in my surrounding was very interested, and a lot of them wanted to know how much money i made (same can...
Great Advice Chake. Thanks for laying out your experience. Appreciated Man...
  • #76
  • May 23, 2018 5:07pm May 23, 2018 5:07pm
Quoting Hambone
{quote} Just finished reading all of the posts. Are you suggesting that the "holy grail" is to have rules and to follow them?
The holy grail is not a magic indicator or even a trading system

It's your brain. Training your thinking to be probability based thinking
Ecclesiastes 1:9
  • #77
  • May 24, 2018 12:14pm May 24, 2018 12:14pm
Rule # 8 To Thine Own Self Be True.

This probably should be rule number 1. If you truly want to make a living trading your own money, you have to be honest with yourself. You have to always be honest about you skills and the trading account size is the reality check on how well you are doing.

At the same time, do not beat yourself up when a trade goes bad. This happens to me all the time, sometimes more than once in a day. Call it inventory shrink, cost of doing business, or whatever makes it sound like a normal expense.

As long as your are not repeating the same mistakes and you have a profitable trading system, you will succeed.
Ecclesiastes 1:9
  • #78
  • May 24, 2018 12:19pm May 24, 2018 12:19pm
There are many ways to skin the cat (Lots of TA strategy) , however, risk management and having a trading plan would help.

If you do not have a trading plan, start having one and you will see the different in your trading outcome
  • #79
  • May 24, 2018 1:40pm May 24, 2018 1:40pm
Quoting srmtj
There are many ways to skin the cat (Lots of TA strategy) , however, risk management and having a trading plan would help. If you do not have a trading plan, start having one and you will see the different in your trading outcome
Friend,

I have trading plans and I tried one by one but they all failed. The problem is, the one who gets good plan, he never shares and never guides.

If I had such a huge initial deposit of 1 Million $ like you, I would rather preferred to go for martingale on all 28 pairs
.................
  • #80
  • May 24, 2018 11:13pm May 24, 2018 11:13pm
Quoting newbegger
Rule # 8 To Thine Own Self Be True. This probably should be rule number 1. If you truly want to make a living trading your own money, you have to be honest with yourself. You have to always be honest about you skills and the trading account size is the reality check on how well you are doing. At the same time, do not beat yourself up when a trade goes bad. This happens to me all the time, sometimes more than once in a day. Call it inventory shrink, cost of doing business, or whatever makes it sound like a normal expense. As long as your are not...
I know this is a tough one. Because we will lie to our spouse, our loved ones, yes even yourself. I remember a trader (gambler) who was losing his house because he was not a trader but a gambler who loved the action. Dude was old and he was putting all his life savings into as flawed trading system (he was a "hold on for dear life" rollover trader looking to pick up a few pennies on the roll rather than trade with a profitable system. He did lose his house and his wife. Fortunate for him, he was old so he did not live long and suffer.

If you are trading for the action, just play on demo. And know if you can wait for the set up, or, if you are just in it for the action.
Ecclesiastes 1:9
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