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  • #21
  • May 15, 2018 8:50pm May 15, 2018 8:50pm
Quoting lddd
Hey there, i would like to hear your comments on this. After some years of trading and trying to get an edge i more more believe its nothing for me. So i really asked my self if there are any existing strategies (most likely complete automated approach) can be trusted and constantly generating a 5-10% percentage return per month? Is this even possible at low/moderate risk? Meaning not having a multi million dollar account size? I would like to find a solution i could simply adapt to, maybe copy trades from the system to my own account and forget...
the RIGHT education (4 year degree)
- Technical Analysis
Institution Accumulation Process (liquidity providers)
Rules of an auction (liquidity)
- Fundamental Analysis
What Drives your market/s

Real Time Exprience (2 years minimum)
this is where you need to find out who you are
you need to put the above together.
you will learn WHEN to trade when NOT to trade and HOW you want to trade

Trading is very hard but very possible. It is extremely profitable. There is no middle ground. Winning sometimes Losing sometimes means you dont have a clue. I would suggest you are good with IT programming or be willjng to spend money on this setting up programs you will need to suit YOUR needs.

that is the funny thing about this game. Everyone is different but there are many ways to manage risk.
The game is the same there is ONLY one correct way to trade S thats whats happening in a literal sense but million ways to take advantage (risk)

You either make millions or nothing much/hobby

Other tips?
Price indicators (stochs gann macd bollingr etc) MOVE BECAUSE OF price.
PRICE moves because of institutional liquidity.
Sure use some
price indicators as training wheels keep you level sometimes but they also hinderence perspective greatly.

Good luck. Find an educator whom talks of insto liquidity, marlet makers, large specs. Anyone talking of indicators or how easy it is. Just dont fall for it.
  • #22
  • May 15, 2018 8:52pm May 15, 2018 8:52pm
Ps. Once you master that with full time trading expect returns between 20%-50% consistently every month and thats with only 1% risk. Rich. Very Rich
  • #23
  • Edited 9:50pm May 15, 2018 8:57pm | Edited 9:50pm
What's really needed? A simple, functional strategy consistently implemented with ice-cold patience.

Trade safe and prosper.

KP

Quoting lddd
Hey there, i would like to hear your comments on this. After some years of trading and trying to get an edge i more more believe its nothing for me. So i really asked my self if there are any existing strategies (most likely complete automated approach) can be trusted and constantly generating a 5-10% percentage return per month? Is this even possible at low/moderate risk? Meaning not having a multi million dollar account size? I would like to find a solution i could simply adapt to, maybe copy trades from the system to my own account and forget...
Do your homework, follow the footprints of smart money
  • #24
  • May 15, 2018 9:10pm May 15, 2018 9:10pm
Quoting KeenPips
What's really needed? A simple, functional strategy implemented with iced-cold patience and consistently. Trade safe and prosper. KP {quote}
A few words, but so true, very well said
  • #25
  • May 15, 2018 9:14pm May 15, 2018 9:14pm
Quoting MLeslie
Ps. Once you master that with full time trading expect returns between 20%-50% consistently every month and thats with only 1% risk. Rich. Very Rich
Correct me if im wrong. But no trader with a decent track record so far have made even half that figure? Let alone with that level of risk... Not saying its impossible, but its highly improbable...
I look for value wherever it can be found
  • #26
  • May 15, 2018 9:27pm May 15, 2018 9:27pm
Quoting synicz
{quote} Correct me if im wrong. But no trader with a decent track record so far have made even half that figure? Let alone with that level of risk... Not saying its impossible, but its highly improbable...
Correct.

How many traders do the required work?

How many traders trly understand institutional liquidity? And how to take advantage of it day in day out. The When why and how?

How many traders making these returns consistently would brag about it? They don't need to sell anything and in most cases couldn't anyway. Make no mistake forex/equities/bonds all interconnected illumanti shit. Seriously. It's how the richest in the world stay Rich control the world. People who work for a bank think they have a clue cause they were a trader or quant but there is much more to it than that. Many pieces to be put together. But if youre Smart dedicated and find some good education on a few topics and then put it together, well we as the retailer have a great advantage in day trading. And you'll smash it. I believe personally 90% lose it all eventually but there would be a good 10% making consistent profits
Risk manager is key. You could even forego some elements IF you have great risk management.
  • #27
  • May 15, 2018 9:37pm May 15, 2018 9:37pm
Thanks mate. Stay green!

KP

Quoting dogdays713
{quote} A few words, but so true, very well said
Do your homework, follow the footprints of smart money
  • #28
  • May 15, 2018 10:14pm May 15, 2018 10:14pm
Quoting MLeslie
{quote} Correct. How many traders do the required work? How many traders trly understand institutional liquidity? And how to take advantage of it day in day out. The When why and how? How many traders making these returns consistently would brag about it? They don't need to sell anything and in most cases couldn't anyway. Make no mistake forex/equities/bonds all interconnected illumanti shit. Seriously. It's how the richest in the world stay Rich control the world. People who work for a bank think they have a clue cause they were a trader or quant...
I wont debate with the other points as it is outside my circle of competence. But explicitly claiming gains of 20-50% monthly is rather misleading. And should only be made with clear indisputable evidence.
Otherwise, lots of retails traders will be misled regarding the realistic level of profits. And its not good for the retail community....
I look for value wherever it can be found
  • #29
  • May 15, 2018 11:01pm May 15, 2018 11:01pm
Quoting lddd
Hey there, i would like to hear your comments on this. After some years of trading and trying to get an edge i more more believe its nothing for me. So i really asked my self if there are any existing strategies (most likely complete automated approach) can be trusted and constantly generating a 5-10% percentage return per month? Is this even possible at low/moderate risk? Meaning not having a multi million dollar account size? I would like to find a solution i could simply adapt to, maybe copy trades from the system to my own account and forget...
You're probably right -- you wont find it. Give up now.

But if you can settle for less than five percent monthly, you will find it. The caveat is that you need to have to find one method that makes sense for you. Once you find it, automating is easy.
youtube.com/@jimstradingjournal
  • #30
  • May 16, 2018 7:02am May 16, 2018 7:02am
Quoting synicz
{quote} Correct me if im wrong. But no trader with a decent track record so far have made even half that figure? Let alone with that level of risk... Not saying its impossible, but its highly improbable...
Championship trading.. yes it can be done
  • #31
  • May 16, 2018 7:24am May 16, 2018 7:24am
Quoting havo
{quote} Championship trading.. yes it can be done
Not bad. I took a look at it. 1 year competition...
My counter arguement then would be that 1 year is still not long enough... Besides, it is unclear whether the winners were making it month-after-month. I would venture a guess that their journey weren't consistent on a monthly basis as well...

But it is rather encouraging to see that it is indeed possible to achieve outstanding returns! Just not sure if the performance can be kept up consistently.
I look for value wherever it can be found
  • #32
  • May 16, 2018 7:41am May 16, 2018 7:41am
Quoting lddd
Hey there, i would like to hear your comments on this. After some years of trading and trying to get an edge i more more believe its nothing for me. So i really asked my self if there are any existing strategies (most likely complete automated approach) can be trusted and constantly generating a 5-10% percentage return per month? Is this even possible at low/moderate risk? Meaning not having a multi million dollar account size? I would like to find a solution i could simply adapt to, maybe copy trades from the system to my own account and forget...
Sounds entirely sensible but be careful about copying trades.
Quick rule of thumb - if they use a low-rent broker (eg Alpari.ru) then forget it. No real trader worth their salt would run their account through a metatrader-style bucket shop so it's likely forged.

Look at the largest loss compared to largest win. Should be tilted towards winners. Sharpe 2+. Frequency of trades < 20/day, pref less than 10 otherwise your execution problems will likely outweigh benefits.

Don't know many traders pulling a proper profit who've decided to go the public route, but last time I looked there's clearly a few decent ones out there. Prob. better than banging your head against a brick wall.
  • #33
  • May 16, 2018 8:05am May 16, 2018 8:05am
Quoting synicz
{quote} Not bad. I took a look at it. 1 year competition... My counter arguement then would be that 1 year is still not long enough...
Of course its long enough !! if the "strategy" its not robust you WILL crash and burn loooong before reaching even 6 month trust me, you dont need to stretch it to 1 year



Quoting synicz
{quote}Besides, it is unclear whether the winners were making it month-after-month. I would venture a guess that their journey weren't consistent on a monthly basis as well...
it doesnt matter what happens month after, the "winner" its the one with the biggest account in the end.. AND with the account STILL alive

Quoting synicz
{quote}But it is rather encouraging to see that it is indeed possible to achieve outstanding returns! Just not sure if the performance can be kept up consistently.

YES it can be done and there are systems out there consistent enough to do it, the problem its the stupid human behind the screen trying to implement it with no discipline and his little "feelings" and ego getting in the middle lol
  • #34
  • May 16, 2018 8:40am May 16, 2018 8:40am
"There is a time to make money and a time to not lose money." David tepper

focusing on strategy more than the direction

KEEP GOING
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #35
  • May 16, 2018 10:29am May 16, 2018 10:29am
Quoting havo
{quote} Of course its long enough !! if the "strategy" its not robust you WILL crash and burn loooong before reaching even 6 month trust me, you dont need to stretch it to 1 year {quote} it doesnt matter what happens month after, the "winner" its the one with the biggest account in the end.. AND with the account STILL alive {quote} YES it can be done and there are systems out there consistent enough to do it, the problem its the stupid human behind the screen trying to implement it with no discipline and his little "feelings" and ego getting in...
Unfortunately, thats where our opinions differ.

Based on my knowledge of competition strategies, it is not uncommon for traders to go all-in nearing the end of the competition in a last ditch attempt to maximize profits, especially when they are within reach of the top few placings. For every 100%+ gains one sees, you never know how many others bust their accounts attempting this type of move. I would caution using the results of trading competitions as proof of consistent profitability.
No doubt those competing do have some serious trading skills. But you never know the kind of risky manuveurs they undertake during the competition. Which may not be ideal for non-competitive trading.

I would also seriously debate 6 month time horizon as adequate to prove a trader is profitable... In fact, there was a paper I read on day trading which shows that roughly 20% of traders are profitable at any year. But across the 12 year mark, less than 1% of the traders they track are profitable. Okay it may not generalize to everybody as it is focused on day trading stocks... Basically my point is that it would be dangerous to assume a skilled trader/profitable system based simply on 6 months/1 year performance... I really dont know the ideal horizon but my take is that the longer one is profitable, suggests an increasing likelihood that its due more to skill rather than luck.
I look for value wherever it can be found
  • #36
  • May 16, 2018 11:35am May 16, 2018 11:35am
Quoting synicz
{quote} Unfortunately, thats where our opinions differ. Based on my knowledge of competition strategies, it is not uncommon for traders to go all-in nearing the end of the competition in a last ditch attempt to maximize profits, especially when they are within reach of the top few placings. For every 100%+ gains one sees, you never know how many others bust their accounts attempting this type of move. I would caution using the results of trading competitions as proof of consistent profitability. No doubt those competing do have some serious trading...

Is not necessarily time its the amount of trades you take; in 6 month someone can take 20 trades, other one can take 300 easily.. wich one have "skill" if both are "profitable" ?? get my point??

Im aproaching the 900 trades mark in my life as a trader and i NEVER busted an account, my worst performance was breakeven/tiny bit of profit on my early days; and from a few months back to this day my win rate increased so drastically to the point that im risking 20/30% PER trade with no bad side effects..

can you guess how long i have being trading?? =)

In conclusion:

Y E S you can risk a lot and win a lot too consistently in the same market across different conditions
Y E S you need to know what you are doing (Practically no one understand the point of taking a trade)
N O O you dont need YEARS of experience and 3 gazillion trades in other to "be" a pro/guru or whatever

thats why people reject this idea; they dont get it or dont know how to do it.. BUT it doesnt mean it cant be done
  • #37
  • May 16, 2018 7:31pm May 16, 2018 7:31pm
Quoting havo
{quote} Is not necessarily time its the amount of trades you take; in 6 month someone can take 20 trades, other one can take 300 easily.. wich one have "skill" if both are "profitable" ?? get my point?? Im aproaching the 900 trades mark in my life as a trader and i NEVER busted an account, my worst performance was breakeven/tiny bit of profit on my early days; and from a few months back to this day my win rate increased so drastically to the point that im risking 20/30% PER trade with no bad side effects.. can you guess how long i have being trading??...
I do agree about it not just being an artefact of time. But also the number of trades taken.

Im not clear about how your trading abilities related to the topic under debate.

The crux of the problem here is that it is unrealistic for retail traders to expect making 10,20,30% per month on a consistent basis. And i would warn against generalising the performance of a year-long trading competition to life-long trading.
I look for value wherever it can be found
  • #38
  • May 17, 2018 3:04am May 17, 2018 3:04am
Quoting havo
{quote}.. can you guess how long i have being trading?? =)

Arround 2 years ? ( conservative strategy ? ) just a wild guess. Good Post tho.

Regards.
  • #39
  • May 18, 2018 10:00am May 18, 2018 10:00am
Praying, and lots of it!
Trade what you see, not what you think!
  • #40
  • May 18, 2018 3:51pm May 18, 2018 3:51pm
plenty of luck and an edge
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