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Institutional Equivalent Education?

  • #501
  • Apr 8, 2018 8:19am Apr 8, 2018 8:19am
@Samson85
The only person who really taught me about trading is Ray de Medici (or whatever his name is - it really doesn't matter!). I started investing back in 1969, but only started trading in 2006. I then spent over 7 years paying tens of thousands of GBP for education that was at best half truths which were only half understood by the 'educator'. Then I found Ray and in less than 10 minutes I knew he was different - he explains both the HOW and the WHY of trading so many different styles and markets. There is no requirement for 'faith', there is never something that 'you just have to accept', everything he says makes sense once you understand the underlying trading business models of the participants.

I would also like to point out that those results of Jarrat Davis whilst spectacular for a Hedge Fund, are really not that special compared to Ray de Medici's prop trading desk. However since they are hired by the big Institutions I don't think that anybody outside of the industry can see their results.

As Copi88 says, Ray's retail reputation as an educator is not helped by his association with CompassFX even though they are one of the better companies in their field.
Ray is extremely hard to sell to retail traders because they are almost all in one of 2 states of mind:
1. They are still hopeful and naive, so they still believe it is possible to make lots of money with no/little work!
2. They are cynical and probably bitter at being conned so much in the past that they can't believe in Ray despite their head telling them that he is the real thing. A top Quant/Strategist/trader who is STILL working for the top institutions.

Thus almost all retail traders find Ray's approach to be 'too much hard work' or they just can't justify paying out for yet another course - in case it doesn't work out.
There are no certainties in trading, not everybody can do it, many have huge trading psychology problems which they can't even recognise until they have no excuses left!
However if a trader is passionate about trading and wants to have the best Institutional training adapted for the retail environment, then there is no alternative but to take a 'full' course from Ray - not just the 3 day intro course he did last year.

He is going to be teaching a new course in a few weeks, if you are a decently capitalised retail trader then get yourself the 'earlybird' deal from CompassFX and that way get both the course and some additional weeks of training.
  • #502
  • Apr 8, 2018 8:35am Apr 8, 2018 8:35am
Ray does have his own website, but doesn't seem to be promoting it.
It currently seems to be just an addition to his live trading/education room through CompassFX:

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  • #503
  • Apr 8, 2018 9:17am Apr 8, 2018 9:17am
Quoting ianf0ster
@Samson85 The only person who really taught me about trading is Ray de Medici (or whatever his name is - it really doesn't matter!). I started investing back in 1969, but only started trading in 2006. I then spent over 7 years paying tens of thousands of GBP for education that was at best half truths which were only half understood by the 'educator'. Then I found Ray and in less than 10 minutes I knew he was different - he explains both the HOW and the WHY of trading so many different styles and markets. There is no requirement for 'faith', there...
Hmmm I believe what you're saying regarding ray as his course sounds like it requires effort just like Jarratt's one does.

Those who believe that trading can be done purely using a chart are naive or plain lucky.

We need to know what exactly moves markets and why. That's why Jarratt's course is best suitable for retail traders wanting to trade intraday.

Anton kreil also seems very good but that requires alot of data and research to swing trade. His team is full of experts so you can't deny their teachings.

The rest of the courses that I have seen for example like 'learn to Trade' are a load of garbage and there to rip you off.

I can't imagine paying for a course and not seeing a return.
  • #504
  • Apr 8, 2018 4:38pm Apr 8, 2018 4:38pm
Many thanks IanF0ster and Copi88 for your contributions to this thread - I have found them tremendously helpful. Having listened to one of Ray's webinars, I can see that it is exactly what I need! Two questions:

1. You mention that Ray is going to be teaching a new course in a few weeks but there is no advert for this on CompassFx. Therefore, how would I register for this course?

2. Would Ray's subscription service on smartalpha.global be intelligible to someone who had not attended his full course?

Many thanks in advance for any help you can provide and best wishes!
  • #505
  • Apr 8, 2018 8:04pm Apr 8, 2018 8:04pm
Are any of these Instituional educators day traders?

If so, Does this Ray believe Macro Fundamentals are important for day trading?

Our job as a day trader is to find discounts and arbitrages with correlated markets imo. It's a game of liquidity not linear Price Indicators. I get suspect when educators mix macro analysis for day trading.
  • #506
  • Apr 8, 2018 9:18pm Apr 8, 2018 9:18pm
Quoting MLeslie
Are any of these Instituional educators day traders? If so, Does this Ray believe Macro Fundamentals are important for day trading? Our job as a day trader is to find discounts and arbitrages with correlated markets imo. It's a game of liquidity not linear Price Indicators. I get suspect when educators mix macro analysis for day trading.

Not sure about Ray but Jarratt davis is.

He purely fundamental.
  • #507
  • Apr 8, 2018 10:22pm Apr 8, 2018 10:22pm
True he is. Jarratt is a News Event Trader correct?
  • #508
  • Apr 8, 2018 10:46pm Apr 8, 2018 10:46pm
Quoting MLeslie
True he is. Jarratt is a News Event Trader correct?
He is more than just news.

He is sentiment and fundamental.

He trades big risk events.

Not sure if there is a vid on YouTube but he I saw his account when he traded the UK snap election. He made like 50k in a matter of hours.

His course is quite intensive but she shows loads of trade examples that's the key thing and so do his team
  • #509
  • Apr 9, 2018 1:17am Apr 9, 2018 1:17am
Quoting MrOctagon
Many thanks IanF0ster and Copi88 for your contributions to this thread - I have found them tremendously helpful. Having listened to one of Ray's webinars, I can see that it is exactly what I need! Two questions: 1. You mention that Ray is going to be teaching a new course in a few weeks but there is no advert for this on CompassFx. Therefore, how would I register for this course? 2. Would Ray's subscription service on smartalpha.global be intelligible to someone who had not attended his full course? Many thanks in advance for any help you can provide...
1- send me or Ian a pm for the contact details.
2- No you will struggle to understand. In fact I dont think he accepts people who havent completed the course.

Quoting MLeslie
Are any of these Instituional educators day traders? If so, Does this Ray believe Macro Fundamentals are important for day trading? Our job as a day trader is to find discounts and arbitrages with correlated markets imo. It's a game of liquidity not linear Price Indicators. I get suspect when educators mix macro analysis for day trading.
Read my post #496.

Ray teaches you how to build models to identify price discount / arbitrage opportunities.

One thing I didn't mention is a method he teaches which he calls Price Discounting. It is a way to day trade the news / sentiment which is very effective.
Boxing clever since 76.
  • #510
  • Apr 9, 2018 5:25am Apr 9, 2018 5:25am
Many thanks Copi88, I shall certainly contact you about the course. FF says that my PMs "are restricted as per membership status", so I cannot PM at the moment. As soon as I work out how to get the PM privileges, I shall contact you or Ian. Many thanks and best wishes!

Quoting copi88
{quote} 1- send me or Ian a pm for the contact details. 2- No you will struggle to understand. In fact I dont think he accepts people who havent completed the course.
  • #511
  • Apr 10, 2018 3:52am Apr 10, 2018 3:52am
Hi Mr Octagon, If you either Phone or Email Kim@CompassFX she can give you the current known details for Rays upcoming course, The and if you wish she can also get you signed up to the 'earlybird deal' - that price will be the same as for the so-called 14 day course last year ( actually lasted 15 days). We are expecting the new course to be both better and longer so it will probably be a little more expensive when announced . That way you get extra weeks of instruction before the course plus you can also join the free 'self help group' once you have signed the Non-Disclosure Agreement for the course.

Kim will let you know my Skype details - my group uses a group Skype plus an online repository for sharing knowledge and tips on how best to learn trading (from Platforms to trading Psychology).
  • #512
  • Edited 5:03am Apr 10, 2018 4:53am | Edited 5:03am
@MLeslie:
Ray both trades and teaches everything from Orderflow scalping in the Macro Fundamental direction and 3 types of News trading (including how to predict certain news events as +ve or -ve) through to using Weekly charts for long Swing Trading.
He tells you the 'Value lines' to use for many markets (all FX pairs, Equity Indices, Gold.Oil, Bonds) plus how to find your own 'Value Lines' for Markets that he doesn't show.

So any student who learns and masters what he covers on his course (warning, it is like drinking from a firehose), will know how to trade ANY Market in ANY Timeframe or on a Non-timeframe chart, or even without charts.

It is because Ray gives so very much information that I decided to start a free self help group, so we don't lose anything after the course(s). Most of the best traders out of Ray's students are or have been active members of my group (over 300 with 281 still registered as active).
  • #513
  • Apr 10, 2018 5:23am Apr 10, 2018 5:23am
Quoting ianf0ster
@MLeslie: Ray both trades and teaches everything from Orderflow scalping in the Macro Fundamental direction and 3 types of News trading (including how to predict certain news events as +ve or -ve) through to using Weekly charts for long Swing Trading. He tells you the 'Value lines' to use for many markets (all FX pairs, Equity Indices, Gold.Oil, Bonds) plus how to find your own 'Value Lines' for Markets that he doesn't show. So any student who learns and masters what he covers on his course (warning, it is like drinking from a firehose), will know...

Hmm you are tempting me but I am with Jarratt Davis not sure I have the capacity to take in more right now.

How do his sessions work?
  • #514
  • Edited 9:16am Apr 10, 2018 9:06am | Edited 9:16am
Quoting Samson85
{quote} Hmm you are tempting me but I am with Jarratt Davis not sure I have the capacity to take in more right now. How do his sessions work?
Learning from Ray is (initially at least) more than a full-time job! Because unless you are already familiar with all of the concepts he teaches, it will take much longer your you to assimilate than it does for Ray to teach it. Even for concepts with which the student is familiar, they invariably find that the institutional traders that Ray has taught have a different twist on them, or even take the completely opposite view to that which is taught to retail traders.

I'm not sure what you mean by sessions.

The trading/education room tends to be open 24x7. which gives access to recent 'Focus Session' recordings.
Ray gives commentary during the US morning Session, but he puts up charts and does some commentary/education whenever he is free from his duties for the Japanese Bank he currently work for. This is usually before 07:00 US Eastern Time, but could be as early as 04:35 US Eastern Time. The Bank's trades usually start/end on the main session starts/ends , so overnight trades initiated around the US Session close will probably be closed before/on any UK 04:30 news for example. Since Ray is employed as a 'Quant/Strategist', he passes instructions to the desk traders fro them to carry out (which includes exits). The 'official' start of his US Session Commentary in the webinar room is 08:00 US Eastern Time.

His contract forbids him calling out trade entries and exits as they happen since these would be in conflict with the Bank taking its positions, however he is allowed to give entry and exit areas ahead of time -since these are always subject to any changes in Value/Sentiment/News.

He usually starts his Daily Focus Session at around 11:00 US Eastern Time, this consists of going over particular trades, techniques etc. These Focus sessions are all recorded. They usually last 90 minutes, but are sometimes are longer. If there is an FOMC news event, he may well come back into the room for that.

He will then send out his Tweets from around 19:00 US Eastern to as late as 21:00 and will occasionally do some Tweets during the London and US sessions. To get his Tweets you need to separately subscribe to SmartAlpha.global (after taking one of his courses). He tries to make the Tweets about ideas for the London or US Session Opens, but sometimes things move faster than expected and so for some trades the trade is already over by London Open.

In the past the courses have usually consisted of 4 education sessions each of 3 to 5 hrs per week starting at 15:00 US Eastern Time (but not on a Wednesday since that is what he laughingly calls his half day - meaning he only works a total of a little over 12 hrs that day). All the course sessions are recorded.
  • #515
  • Apr 10, 2018 9:13am Apr 10, 2018 9:13am
Here is a link to some detail the subjects covered in Ray's course last year: https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...6#post10152506

That post also has details of how to view some of the promotional webinars for that course.
99% of retail traders will learn something valuable if they just watch those webinars.
  • #516
  • Apr 11, 2018 2:54pm Apr 11, 2018 2:54pm
Gosh, how quickly I can screw up hugely. Much of the following stems from me treating my live account money like Demo money whilst in a trade, plus being extremely stubborn and 'marrying trades on occasion'. Here is my Skype conversation from a few minutes ago:

F.C. How was your OIL INVENTORIES TRADING... if any?
Me I made 5 mistakes:
1. Exiting only 80% of my trade ( in profit ) and hanging on with the other 20%
2. Realising I was trading in opposite direction to Ray, but adding to my trade instead of exiting for a small loss (actually a 1% profit overall).
3. Not noticing when ALL my value lines on the 3 min chart went against me. - I was watching the 1 min chart too intently to see it.
4. Not exiting and reversing at the first pullback, instead adding further to my trade.
5. Opting to try to deposit funds when margin put my account -ve. I should have either exited the trades, or added funds earlier.
Price was already showing momentum when I did it.
So by the time I had the funds deposited the Broker had stopped out my trade on Margin as price had already spiked much higher.
And then price dropped quite hard.
So by the time I had returned to the Trading Platform screen, had my trade still been open, my total funds (incld Open Loss & Margin) would have been +ve.

I won't make the excuse that I am unwell and suffering from lack of sleep, because I was fully aware of that before trading and felt I was OK at the time.
  • #517
  • Apr 12, 2018 3:49pm Apr 12, 2018 3:49pm
Hi Ian,

Sorry about your last trade and also for not responding sooner. I hadn't seen your answer to my (sarcastic) last post until now.

Thank you for posting your trading statements. I do appreciate that you did this and congratulate you on your success.
  • #518
  • Apr 15, 2018 4:55pm Apr 15, 2018 4:55pm
Many thanks for your response Ian F. Kim and CompassFx have been very approachable, furnished me with details of the payment link. I need to clarify the exact dates of the full course and check that everything is recorded.

Rays past seminars were excellent. I can now see partly what is going wrong with my trading. Interestingly, I can day trade around car boot sales and be profitable 95 % of the time. I also have two years of an economics degree passed. But was still screwing up online trading. Reason: Firstly following muppets with price derived indicators. Secondly, not having a measure of value independent of price. Thirdly, after dropping the price indicator muppets, following alternative chart pattern/price wave form muppets. Some educators I followed did use vol-by-price profile and volume but combined them with the muppet chart pattern view making their overall analysis poor. Wyckoff method is somewhat better in that it uses price waves together with volume and derives indicators from that - but still nothing like Ray's and probably nowhere near effective. Also, no previous educator I've been with mentions market depth-level 2.

I did notice Ray used a compass Fx indicator to estimate value in one webinar - I hope that is not obligatory to use?

Would be interesting to hear Ray's views on how - if at all - to trade pegged currencies and IPOs.

Overall looks excellent - I'm highly likely to sign up - just need clarification of dates!

Thanks again!

Quoting ianf0ster
Hi Mr Octagon, If you either Phone or Email Kim@CompassFX she can give you the current known details for Rays upcoming course, The and if you wish she can also get you signed up to the 'earlybird deal' - that price will be the same as for the so-called 14 day course last year ( actually lasted 15 days). We are expecting the new course to be both better and longer so it will probably be a little more expensive when announced . That way you get extra weeks of instruction before the course plus you can also join the free 'self help group' once you...
  • #519
  • Apr 17, 2018 8:22am Apr 17, 2018 8:22am
Quoting MrOctagon
I need to clarify the exact dates of the full course and check that everything is recorded. Rays past seminars were excellent. {quote}
There is no news as to the dates for the course yet. But this is a good thing, because it means it is still a few weeks away and so anybody signing up now on the 'EarlyBird' gets full access to last year's course(s) plus access to Ray's live room from the time they sign up until the course finishes!
hat way you get one heck of a head start, which includes the eligabilty to join our (free) Self Help Group for help on : Platforms, Features, free Resources, how to learn this stuff, Trader Psychology, help on how to find the right Market/Timeframe/Style for you.

Yes the Course sessions will be recorded. Most students need to go thorough them several times because of how comprehensive and how different Ray's teaching is compared with what they are used to. In the past the students who took a course, but didn't join the live room had view only access to the course recordings for at least 2 years after the end of the course.
Also his daily 'Focus Sessions' are also recorded. These are where he presents some learning points based upon recent days trading.

Quoting MrOctagon
I did notice Ray used a compass Fx indicator to estimate value in one webinar - I hope that is not obligatory to use? {quote}
One part of Ray's uniqueness is that he teaches absolutely everything he thinks may be of help to the retail trader. This means that he shows us how to use many 'best of breed' tools - even ones he does not himself need. This can be either/both a benefit and a disadvantage! I think that the indicator(s) you saw were probably for MT4 and were produced to overcome some limitations in MT4 compared with for example Sierra Chart - which is one of Ray's preferred charting platforms.
There are no compulsory tools, it is left to each individual student to decide what to trade and how to trade it (based upon their own personality, resources and time availability.
For example to trade the daily (or bigger) timeframe charts or to trade Weekly or Monthly Options etc, you only need a basic price chart (or no chart at all) plus things like a (free) COT report and a (free) 'value' line chart, but if time of trade is not an issue then entries and exits can be improved by adding in Volume and OrderFlow tool/features.
At the other end of the spectrum, for scalping you need some OrderFlow and Volume tools/features, but not necessarily the COT reports.

Having said all that, Ray seems to be moving towards getting everything he finds useful for Retail trading into Sierra Chart. He is paying one of his students to produce a more advanced OrderFlow package (based on his prior one called OFten) for use exclusively by his students. This is still in the testing phase and may be the reason why there are no Course dates as yet.
This same student (with others) has already produced a 'Value Line' package for use with Sierra Chart.

Quoting MrOctagon
Would be interesting to hear Ray's views on how - if at all - to trade pegged currencies and IPOs. Overall looks excellent - I'm highly likely to sign up - just need clarification of dates! Thanks again! {quote}
I can't provide any comments on this since I don't recall him ever mentioning trading these (unless you count the CHF as a 'pegged currency' - i.e. pegged to the Euro). He has been providing some trading ideas for specific US Stocks.
  • #520
  • Apr 17, 2018 10:41am Apr 17, 2018 10:41am
Hmm. Just one more indicator from Ray and every thing will be fixed hmmm. And I recall some of Rays webinars where the aim was to teach you to trade regardless of trading platform and indicators, so that you could work at any hedge fund or prop firm.

At the interview:
"So can you trade?"
"Yes I can trade provided I've got all the tools by a guy that goes under the name "Ray De Medici."

Have to say I've been enjoying some of Mark Coe's free content on Youtube. Trading "level to level" the old fashioned way.

I remember sitting through one video of Ray explaining the "squeeze trade" where an auction process basically squeezes price from both sides until eventually it explodes through a level. Looks like a doji on H4 or Daily charts. Its a form of volatility breakout and hence why doji's and equal lows and highs are so powerful. I'm just not convinced you need concepts of value or volume to trade. But maybe Ray was having a bad night, because I wanted slash my wrists afterwards it was so convoluted and agonising. Maybe he was getting distracted by some of the comments in chat, which he should have ignored till later in the session. But its basic support and resistance. "but but support and resistance doesn't work" Well yes it does. You just seem to be wanting absolute certainty in every trade, and regardless of the number of indicators and education you are never going to get that. Perhaps trade with less size?

How many hours do you practise in front of a screen, trading either on a demo, or by winding back the charts on MT4 strategy tester? I think trading is a bit like golf. Its OK knowing the theory but you will always be practising your swing.

That would be my course if I did one. A lab full of PC's where everyone was trading a demo. Not technical analysis, fibonacci, and gartley patterns, but trading. Buying low and selling high and vice versa.

I think all the above is great if you want a career as a quant or a technical analysis. But not as a trader.
I feel some hobbyist analyst fantasies are being fuelled here and there isn't much value in that.

Anyway good luck with it all!
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