Menu
Sister Sites

Options

Bookmark Thread

First Page First Unread Last Page Last Post

Print Thread

Similar Threads

High leverage vs Low leverage 73 replies

High Leverage vs Low Leverage 21 replies

High Leverage vs Low Leverage 20 replies

How many strategies does one need? 71 replies

Need advice, my EA produce $22 Millions in one year? 6 replies

How Many Millions does one need for no leverage.

  • Post #1
  • Quote
  • First Post: Apr 27, 2008 1:40pm Apr 27, 2008 1:40pm
Hi
I'm wondering what you guys think on this topic,

How many millions does one need before they can trade with no leverage, just place trades with a real bank, that way funds are 100% guaranteed etc,
or is there investment banks where there is maybe 2:1 leverage with guarantee of funds.

Does anyone know of banks of hand that are good for the above,
anyone people with knowledge in the above subject, pls chime in with your
experience of knowledge.

Appreciate any help with this.

Regards
Mr Smith
You can always trade with no leverage.

To place trades in the real market (not the market maker stuff) you need an ECN. The requirements are not very high.

Regards - Xaron
Lol, how many millions?

Man, we're talking huge sums here!

Nah, just kidding mate, I'll second what Xaron said.
10k position with no leverage will cost...... 10k
Quoting Mr Smith
Hi I'm wondering what you guys think on this topic, How many millions does one need before they can trade with no leverage, just place trades with a real bank, that way funds are 100% guaranteed etc, or is there investment banks where there is maybe 2:1 leverage with guarantee of funds. Does anyone know of banks of hand that are good for the above, anyone people with knowledge in the above subject, pls chime in with your experience of knowledge. Appreciate any help with this. Regards Mr Smith
i read on citibank website it's possible to have currency accounts but you will need a very huge deposit. if my memory is correct you will need 1 million dollars

i think most biggest banks offer this but most probably a big minimum deposit would be the problem. and you can't trade small price movements because most probably the spread will be hundreds of pips, except if you can negotiate to make them lower the spread for you.

some advice: dont trust unknown and unreputed internet banks who offers this with small deposits. you never know if you can access your money afterwards.
Leverage is an option for retail Forex Traders. Just find an ECN or STP broker and invest more than 10k dollars, then enploy proper risk management system to ensure you do not run out of money. Forex Brokers offer leverage to assist traders or help them succeed if properly applied. I wonder why you are not interested in using leverage in the first place.
Im a newbie and don't know a ton about actual trading, but understand the basics of broker accounts and leverage. IMO, leverage is opportunity. Leverage to me is like building a pool with a couple of guys with a shovel vs a couple of guys with excavators. You can achieve the same success, but it will take you substantially longer without utilizing the "Tool" given to you so to speak. Because it takes a substantial amount of money to MAKE money in the forex market, the broker GIVES you 50:1, 100:1, 200:1 ext leverage to make greater returns.

Another comparison is like buying an investment property for cash vs getting a mortgage. Could you afford to buy the property for cash eventually? Probably, but why not put down a small amount of money down (margin) and get money (leverage) from your bank so you can achieve success much more rapidly?

I kind of understand the logic of not wanting to endure debt/liability, but this is something you will just have to get over... I bought my first 4 rental properties with cash. Years later I said to myself, are you dumb, refinance these properties, get as much cash as you possibly can for them, let the tenants pay the mortgages and THEN some and use the cash to make even MORE money or buy even MORE property.
hi,
you really need to rethink your understand of leverage im afraid. The leverage you are talking about will certainly take you out. again and again and again. A career profitable trader would never ever go anywhere near that sort of leverage, and nor would they advocate it.

As to 'no brainer trades'? Nope.
There will be conditions that by your process will be a higher probability trade, sure. But no brainer?. never.

Leverage equals volatility. And whilst it is true that no volatility equals no profit, it does not therefore carry that volatility equals profit. It just equals volatility.
Quoting mollyellie
hi, you really need to rethink your understand of leverage im afraid. The leverage you are talking about will certainly take you out. again and again and again. A career profitable trader would never ever go anywhere near that sort of leverage, and nor would they advocate it. As to 'no brainer trades'? Nope. There will be conditions that by your process will be a higher probability trade, sure. But no brainer?. never. Leverage equals volatility. And whilst it is true that no volatility equals no profit, it does not therefore carry that volatility...

Are you responding to me?


I know of countless full time traders that are using high leverage honestly. If you are confident in your skill set, why WOULDN'T you take advantage? Having mass amounts of leverage does not mean you have to blow it all on one trade rather gives you the opportunity to get involved in many trades with as small of a stop loss as desired. My example with "no brainer trades" was just that, an example. I was not advising someone brand new to get a 500:1 account and risk it all on one trade.

Just because you have the ability to hold a 500k position doesn't mean you should go all out on a single trade just like going from a $1,500 credit card to a $25,000 credit card doesn't mean you should go on a shopping spree.

If all you have is $5k with no leverage its going to be extremely hard to build your account imo.

Again, im certainly no forex/trading expert, but I am a fairly intelligent businessman and without leverage it will take you substantially longer to achieve success.
hi dbrown518,
yes i was replying to you but im not on top of how to do stuff on this platform. sorry about that

Im not against leverage per se, But high leverage is financial suicide.

Let me try a hypothetical:

say one has 10k in their account.
they like usdjpy
they buy 1m worth of usdjpy (so 100:1).

Usdjpy moves 20 points against and their account is down 20%.
A daily 1std deviation move in usdjpy is about 0.5%. lets call it 50 points

So a move that is nothing more than noise costs 20% of their capital.

If that isnt financial suicide then i dont know what is.
Quoting mollyellie
hi dbrown518, yes i was replying to you but im not on top of how to do stuff on this platform. sorry about that Im not against leverage per se, But high leverage is financial suicide. Let me try a hypothetical: say one has 10k in their account. they like usdjpy they buy 1m worth of usdjpy (so 100:1). Usdjpy moves 20 points against and their account is down 20%. A daily 1std deviation move in usdjpy is about 0.5%. lets call it 50 points So a move that is nothing more than noise costs 20% of their capital. If that isnt financial suicide then i dont...

Lets say someone gets a 150k home equity line of credit, buys ferarri 458 for cash and decides they don't want full coverage insurance and totals the car and still owes the money......... I mean, of course you CAN be stupid, but most people trading aren't idiots.

And to be honest if your not setting proper stop losses for the amount your PREPARED to loose... then you ARE just dumb lol.

Im sorry, but I still don't agree. The more money you have available, the more opportunity you have, both in business, life and trading.

10k at 100:1 leverage could also mean that you could hold 10 positions all with 2-5% risk instead of "throwing it all on black" lol
well it seems we have a difference of opinion,.. thats pretty much what mkts are about i suppose
  • Post #13
  • Quote
  • Last Post: Mar 17, 2018 6:00am Mar 17, 2018 6:00am
Quoting mollyellie
well it seems we have a difference of opinion,.. thats pretty much what mkts are about i suppose
If dbrown518 was talking about 10 trades EACH with 2-5% risk, than there is no point to discuss any further. If he meant total risk on 10 positions 2-5%, than I stand corrected.

My opinion is, yes, one can use high leverage, but only when adding to profitable positions in a strong trend, and after the stops are set firmly in positive. Of course, there is a double-edged sword in this, as if some unexpected deeper corrections occur, your floating profit will be gone.

But then again, to me high leverage is 20, super high 50.
0 traders viewing now