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1% to 3% Per Day? All things are Possible

  • Poll

  • How much percent per day is possible with a good system?
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  • #1
  • First Post: Edited Feb 21, 2022 8:27am Feb 9, 2018 7:39am | Edited Feb 21, 2022 8:27am
Greetings everyone on start up of this trading discussion traders were excited with the mere thought of earning by attractive percentages without thinking about the risk associated with it.

For years of trading one will eventually learn that the risk is most important. All trading systems come with a measure of risk. The levels of knowledge and varying expertise in the financial market here on forex factory, offers the necessary information to make profitable traders.
It is also possible to formulate a system for traders to consistently make 1% to 3% per day and quit for the day without loss on full automation.

Without a losing day or session is the aspect of the equation that requires some work to accomplish.

Please note: There will be losses, however if your system has a recovery mode then this statement will make sense... "without losing days, session, week or month".

For clarification some traders have attested to accomplishing such results here on FF but may not be willing to share their hard work and efforts.

Do you blame them for their decisions, i don't. It takes hard work, discipline and dedication to maintain such success. This is to be considered serious business and others who have worked hard are not willing to just give their years of trial and error to persons who will and may not appreciate their efforts all in a split second.

All are welcomed to share your advice, thoughts, suggestions & recommendations.
Persons who seek to advertise unrelated materials will be dealt with accordingly to the provided measures available here on FF.

 

  1. Just think about 0.2% up to 5% and above percentage gains per trade, per session, per week.
  2. Gaining consistent profits according to your needs, system and experience?
  3. Imagine reducing your risk associated with your trading activities for longterm trading opportunities.
  4. Stop blowing up accounts and jumping from system to system.

What is your take/opinion?

R:R "Percentage Focus"
  • #2
  • Feb 9, 2018 8:13am Feb 9, 2018 8:13am
If someone has something like this on full automation, he wouldnt share it here i guess

Theoretically everything is possible.
If you have lots of money, you can make lots of money without risking so much %

So there is no real need for the big money to reach those numbers.
Those guys are not looking at the gains, they are looking at the risk.
  • #3
  • Edited 8:30am Feb 9, 2018 8:17am | Edited 8:30am
Quoting PrinceJ58
Greetings everyone, with all the systems, knowledge and varying expertise in the financial market here on forex factory, is it possible to formulate a system for the traders here to consistently make 1% to 3% per day and quit for the day without loss on full automation? Share your thoughts, suggestions & recommendations. Just think about 5% to 15% PER WEEK. 20% to 60% for the month. What is your take/opinion?
It's definitely doable if you have the knowledge, the patience, the discipline and the right tools.

In fact, once you understand a few basic rules then it's quite easy to have 10-20-30 days in row with good profit.

The hard part is to sustain these returns for a long time (a few years) in order to take advantage of exponential growth. The main problem is that this type of intraday scalping is very demanding and exhausting mentally and physically. You have to be absolutely glued to the screen for at least a few hours every day. And you have to maintain focus the whole time. After awhile it becomes extremely boring and that's where the bad and stupid mistakes happen. For example you make profit 10 days in row and then lose the profit in 1-2 stupid trades.

One good way to overcome this problem is to trade on and off. Don't trade every day. Or you can trade for a few days then take a few days off. This really makes big difference.
  • #4
  • Feb 9, 2018 8:37am Feb 9, 2018 8:37am
Quoting TheCrusade
If someone has something like this on full automation, he wouldnt share it here i guess Theoretically everything is possible. If you have lots of money, you can make lots of money without risking so much % So there is no real need for the big money to reach those numbers. Those guys are not looking at the gains, they are looking at the risk.

  1. Yes a good friend of mine always mentions the risk indeed
  2. I have a friend who is an institutional/professional trader (a coach for traders world wide) who when he does his trades even if the setup looks good he still brings out his tool to evaluate the risk versus the possible reward.

I was evaluating a system- a dashboard here on FF that deals with strength trade-seems good it looks to take profit of 10% of the atr/adr and the stop loss is 40% of the same. The thing is that the take profit is most times hit before even thinking about a stop-loss. but when the stop-loss is hit, there has to be 4 winning trades in that same session to cover for one loss.

R:R "Percentage Focus"
  • #5
  • Feb 9, 2018 8:43am Feb 9, 2018 8:43am
Interesting system you are describing.
Personally I prefer systems, where the profit would be at least 2x the risk, because you have to calculate the spread and/or commission into the system.

I always feel betrayed, when you make smaller profits, and the broker gets basically 30-50% of it.
  • #6
  • Feb 9, 2018 8:46am Feb 9, 2018 8:46am
Quoting alphaomega
{quote} It's definitely doable if you have the knowledge, the patience, the discipline and the right tools. In fact, once you understand a few basic rules then it's quite easy to have 10-20-30 days in row with good profit. The hard part is to sustain these returns for a long time (a few years) in order to take advantage of exponential growth. The main problem is that this type of intraday scalping is very demanding and exhausting mentally and physically. You have to be absolutely glued to the screen for at least a few hours every day. And you have...

I like the concept. It is possible to do well on one day or a few days, especially when the trades are left to run in profits, especially with the trend and have exponential percentage growth. Sometimes instead of doing 1% to 3% you may end up doing even more and this would validate the break from trading.

As for the time in-front of the screen that is why i was specifying automation and yes trading can become monotonous which is why i would go out and have fun-adventure or watch a movie while i trade. One has to live normal.
When a loophole is identified as long as it is repeatable and can be systematic it can be coded right coders? I think the simpler and clearer the better.

A good note you made was: "Don't trade every day and always take a few days off." Prevention is better than cure. Good thoughts.
R:R "Percentage Focus"
  • #7
  • Feb 9, 2018 8:49am Feb 9, 2018 8:49am
Quoting PrinceJ58
{quote} Yes a good friend of mine always mentions the risk indeed I have a friend who is an institutional/professional trader (a coach for traders world wide) who when he does his trades even if the setup looks good he still brings out his tool to evaluate the risk versus the possible reward. I was evaluating a system- a dashboard here on FF that deals with strength trade-seems good it looks to take profit of 10% of the atr/adr and the stop loss is 40% of the same. The thing is that the take profit is most times hit before even thinking about a...
1st think about risk ?? how much risk you want to take for this ratios /reward/gains what ever you called ..imho and most important your trading /knowledge/system capable to do this?? main focus should be consistency.....
Say something meaningful or Silence!!
  • #8
  • Feb 9, 2018 9:00am Feb 9, 2018 9:00am
Quoting TheCrusade
Interesting system you are describing. Personally I prefer systems, where the profit would be at least 2x the risk, because you have to calculate the spread and/or commission into the system. I always feel betrayed, when you make smaller profits, and the broker gets basically 30-50% of it.
Yes this is true. The settings are customizable to users liking but that was default. There were several things that had to line up before the trade was triggered though.
One thing i saw was that there were many wins but those that loss were bad. The ratio was really off as you say.
I once watched a video by a coder who teaches on youtube mql4 coding, the question was asked to him about win ratio which also covered risk/reward, how many trades a trader had to win to stay in profit. The conclusion was that as long as a system gives more than it losses it can be profitable.

E.g.
Let's say every session there are 10 trades but you are guaranteed to lose 6 times every time you trade.
So long as the 4 winning trades can cover for the 6 losses it should be profitable. I will go into this in more detail when i get the information.
R:R "Percentage Focus"
  • #9
  • Feb 9, 2018 9:13am Feb 9, 2018 9:13am
Quoting classy
{quote} 1st think about risk ?? how much risk you want to take for this ratios /reward/gains what ever you called ..imho and most important your trading /knowledge/system capable to do this?? main focus should be consistency.....
Yes repeatable, consistent and easy to understand.
Take for e.g. Price-action and candle pattern signal- I choose Pinbar: Shooting star, falling star, hammer anyone you want to call it.
Every time-frame from m1 to Monthly gives out 100's of signals simultaneously throughout the day on each asset as a whole. The risk is at the end which is the tail and the profit is always 1:1, 1:2, 1:3 and so on. My E.g. is Gold on the daily chart december 12, 2017. It went on and on. Great trade for the positional trader. The trouble is filtering the signals, whether it is good or bad. Most times the trades would use trend-Moving averages, Pivots, Round numbers, value chart, HH, HL, LL, LH, Support and resistance you name it. But the risk is only great when the entry is 50% of the candle, it does not always happen which means one would have to put a limit order and a stop order at the same time to capture this type of trade.

GbpJpy gave such a trade today.

  1. H4 last bearish pinbar-Stop order triggered but no limit order- Great reward versus risk looking back.
  2. Daily gave the 50% retrace entry and the stop order but todays ending would tell the tale if target is not met.

R:R "Percentage Focus"
  • #10
  • Feb 9, 2018 9:34am Feb 9, 2018 9:34am
You see we don't need a competition, we just need to either identify the systems or methods that are easy and repeatable to help those who are involved to have one system idea that takes the good of systems and fuse it into one.

Like i know there are great coders here that would code for free any system that is worth their time. The problem i see are too much big dreams, aiming for too high a reward or having too much entries on same signal and in the end not working out on a consistent basis. There a big hedge funds closing down, so losses are inevitable, this is a fact.
The big institutions go in and out. They move the market and shake it, I remember watching a documentary on youtube that showed an institution using labeled machines to send millions of dollars into the market and taking out stops and so on in a couple seconds and the guy gave a warning to say if you are in the market now, i would advise you to come out now, the guy who did it was so confident and his company on screen made millions in that second. Of course they took down the video.
This world of trading conditions is an ever changing trading climate can still be traded. There are loopholes that exist and can be used to benefit retail traders.

My concepts on automation would work better than if done manually. There are many factors that can inhibit the target from being met if done manually-personally.
R:R "Percentage Focus"
  • #11
  • Edited 10:17am Feb 9, 2018 9:49am | Edited 10:17am
Quoting PrinceJ58
What is your take/opinion?
For me, the critical question is this: given the way that the banks/institutions move price around during the day, are these moves large, perceptible and 'clean' enough to be systematically exploited? To whatever extent the trader waits for 'confirmation' during his entry process, he is forfeiting pips (in exchange for what he hopes will be a higher win rate). If he exits using profit targets, then he will be forfeiting pips whenever the move exceeds his target; or if he uses some kind of trailing SL, then he is forfeiting pips during the price retracement to the SL. In other words, whatever approach he uses, he can capture only part of these moves, whatever the extent of his inability to forecast market turning points with perfect accuracy. Those are the considerations for profitable trades. Then he must also calculate how much initial adverse movement he must allow, in order to keep his losses as small as possible, but while nonetheless keeping his initial SL wide enough so that too many potentially profitable trades don't get stopped out prematurely as losses. Then of course there are also costs (spread, slippage etc) which make his wins smaller and his losses bigger. The intraday price moves need to be large, perceptible and 'clean' enough to allow all of these issues to be overcome. And of course we must not forget the psychological element: he must have the confidence necessary to execute his trades with discipline and composure.

Nonetheless, there are positives. The trader can be as selective with his entry setups as he wishes, a big advantage in my opinion. Price frequently moves in a reasonably patterned fashion, especially with the major pairs, if the trader understands orderflow, liquidity, the probable effect of high impact news, and the way that heavyweights tend to operate. So the question comes down to whether the trader has both the technical knowledge and the emotional mettle needed to overcome the issues that I mentioned, to generate a net positive average daily pip count.

If (and only if) this positive expectancy can be achieved, then the percentages merely become a calculation of position size relative to account size (with respect to how much drawdown the trader is willing to accept, according to his risk model; and also how large he can size positions while still retaining the composure needed to execute consistently). Return is also a function of trade frequency, and compounding frequency. As simple math demonstrates, a small return every day can compound to a significant annual return.

The above assumes that understanding heavyweight agendas/manipulation, orderflow/liquidity patterns, etc involves a largely discretionary process. If you're talking about full automation, then the emotional aspects become less significant, but there are other considerations IMHO.

[EDIT] Forgot to mention: Of course you must also find a broker who doesn't run VDPs, trade against you or otherwise cheat you, as this will only make the task even more difficult, probably impossibly so.

Just my 2 cents FWIW.
  • #12
  • Feb 9, 2018 10:28am Feb 9, 2018 10:28am
Quoting MTEATrader
{quote} Just replying to your question, my system is 1% to 3% daily without compounding, fully automated, trading 24-7. I'm certain I'm not the only one but others just aren't posting a TE for their own reasons. One thing I know for sure is that you cannot succeed in getting extraordinary results without the help of others. This forum for example is full of invaluable help and information. So keep searching and trying, and you might also obtain results you're happy with.
Thanks for your input, this statement "This forum for example is full of invaluable help and information" is true. I do obtain some results but i'm still having trouble here and there. The systems i have interest in are:

 

  1. Currency strength-But i need some help to figure out which method has better results.
  2. Trend Trading-Needs a recovery method when the trend suddenly changes.
  3. Breakout- Box setup like london and higher timeframe. m15 to daily.
  4. Reversal or Candle pattern- like the pinbar.

Number 2 and 3 lawgirl has something similar, in terms if the approach i take, but her method of using the rsi is see the arrows change at times and that's a concern for me. I use pivots for direction and breakout. For the breakout Box setup is easier to code versus pennants-my point of view. One requires trend lines and the other requires support and resistance of a high and low thats much easier and full automation looks easier.

Reversal pin-bar- sometimes they give good runs and sometimes they don't but i have a few ideas i have been researching that have legs to walk.
Currency strength i have a robot that i found on the mql codebase that measures diff value between currencies. Trades multiple assets from the one chart.
For that one i need someone with that kind of trading experience to look on it to see what are the downfalls for it.
I also liked basket trading the currencies that were trending. So if i got a setup on Gold i would trade the dollar through usdjpy and the relating currencies but news would affect the basket a different times.

R:R "Percentage Focus"
  • #13
  • Edited 12:26pm Feb 9, 2018 10:57am | Edited 12:26pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} For me, the critical question is this: given the way that the banks/institutions move price around during the day, are these moves large, perceptible and 'clean' enough to be systematically exploited? To whatever extent the trader waits for 'confirmation' during his entry process, he is forfeiting pips (in exchange for what he hopes will be a higher win rate). If he exits using profit targets, then he will be forfeiting pips whenever the move exceeds his target; or if he uses some kind of trailing SL, then he is forfeiting pips during the...


Thanks for your time Hanover, there is alot i have agreed on which you have mentioned above, it is greatly appreciated as you have walked on some roads less travelled by many here on FF and some information you always mention are not easily accessible to the wider scope of traders. There are a few things you mentioned that will have me reading again like a post you made, It was filled with similar information that you have posted above and one thing i always notice is that you give factual information. I like reading the postings done by you. A person with your knowledge are few in number.

To answer some of what was mentioned now:
Question about the banks and other institutions, i have few thoughts they use high timeframes daily to monthly, they do positional trades holding for weeks, months. Another focus some have is to cents here and everywhere but so fast and so often that it works out to millions in a short space from different assets classes. Using the imperfections in the market as their loophole.
The other thing is as it relates to news trading- the news feed that is faster is expensive (live) and it requires subscription to get the live release. Where as the typical calendar is painfully delayed for those who are not connected to a live feed. I once used to deposit a small amount and more than double it on volatile nfp releases until they started freezing the account during those times for those market makers-

Some professional traders require research about the markets being traded, deep research as they use both all legs of the market- Technical, fundamental and sentiment. Like having information from reuters, ransquawk and other financial based research agencies. Some of these traders use varying information about the markets like percent change, average net longs and shorts from institutions, headlines and other things, all these things data are required by different market traders weather conditions for commodities traders as a confirmation to enter etc. The list goes on.

As it relates to trailing or percentage trading, i think locking in a percentage is good if one is going to hold the trade. I saw a system that used percentage close, like for instance if your system will give between 1-5% it would aim for the 5% but as it goes towards that target it would lock 3% for e.g. should the profits retrace.

Capturing parts of the moves is the aim, taking a little here and there where we have high probabilities to do so. I will make direct comments to everything you posted below.



To whatever extent the trader waits for 'confirmation' during his entry process, he is forfeiting pips-This is true. (in exchange for what he hopes will be a higher win rate). If he exits using profit targets, then he will be forfeiting pips whenever the move exceeds his target; This is true as well i have this concern- to make profits run and losers go quickly. I also think profit locking at different levels can possibly deal with apart of this concern you stated in my opinion which may cover losses in the long run for several attempts that maybe made along the way. or if he uses some kind of trailing SL, then he is forfeiting pips during the price retracement to the SL. Sounds like a Hedge fund would deal with this scenario. In other words, whatever approach he uses, he can capture only part of these moves True, whatever the extent of his inability to forecast market turning points with perfect accuracy. Those are the considerations for profitable trades. There are some tools and levels i think that might help in this arena, as to how to utilize is what i would love to capture through this medium. Then he must also calculate how much initial adverse movement he must allow , in order to keep his losses as small as possible, but while nonetheless keeping his initial SL wide enough so that too many potentially profitable trades don't get stopped out prematurely as losses.Very important fact.
Then of course there are also costs (spread, slippage etc) which make his wins smaller and his losses bigger. I would treat those as expense to the business venture like an internet bill is apart of the trading expense. The intraday price moves need to be large, perceptible and 'clean' enough to allow all of these issues to be overcome. I think commodities and the gbp pairs may allow for this. And of course we must not forget the psychological element: he must have the confidence necessary to execute his trades with discipline and composure. That is why i mention full automation.

Nonetheless, there are positives. Glad to know. The trader can be as selective with his entry setups as he wishes, a big advantage in my opinion. Yes i think so too. Price frequently moves in a reasonably patterned fashion, especially with the major pairs, if the trader understands "orderflow, liquidity, the probable effect of high impact news, and the way that heavyweights tend to operate"-Theses i will read on more- Any recommendation of source, you could pm me please. So the question comes down to whether the trader has both the technical knowledge and the emotional mettle needed to overcome the issues that I mentioned, to generate a net positive average daily pip count. I will have good trades but sometimes think i can get more out of them and not protect them enough and lose those pips, one friend said he prefers to be in and out rather than leave them on the table.

If (and only if) this positive expectancy can be achieved, then the percentages merely become a calculation of position size relative to account size (with respect to how much drawdown the trader is willing to accept, according to his risk model; and also how large he can size positions while still retaining the composure needed to execute consistently). Return is also a function of trade frequency, and compounding frequency. As simple math demonstrates, a small return every day can compound to a significant annual return. Personally i think my style suits a larger account better than a small one, with limited leverage even down to a 1:10. It is just to get that working for a small account leading into a large one. I love using micro accounts for this purpose.

The above assumes that understanding heavyweight agendas/manipulation, orderflow/liquidity patterns, etc involves a largely discretionary process. If you're talking about full automation, then the emotional aspects become less significant, but there are other considerations IMHO. Very True

[EDIT] Forgot to mention: Of course you must also find a broker who doesn't run VDPs, trade against you or otherwise cheat you, as this will only make the task even more difficult, probably impossibly so. A famous trader from Goldmansachs on youtube mentioned a lot of what you say here and on post you made that i liked. You have good knowledge and exposure. I tend to help others more than i do for myself, sadly, i need to change this.
R:R "Percentage Focus"
  • #14
  • Feb 9, 2018 11:45am Feb 9, 2018 11:45am
Quoting PrinceJ58
Greetings everyone, with all the systems, knowledge and varying expertise in the financial market here on forex factory, is it possible to formulate a system for the traders here to consistently make 1% to 3% per day and quit for the day without loss on full automation? Share your thoughts, suggestions & recommendations. Just think about 5% to 15% PER WEEK. 20% to 60% for the month. What is your take/opinion?

Hi prince

If you wan to be successful in this game.Forget everything you have learnt from FF and start new.See only the bulls and bear fighting.only this can help you in the long run atleast 10 years.You need these many years to be consistently successful. Do not follow any system or indicator.

And about 1-3% its possible when your account is small.When your account grows to a large number.its very difficult to see you losing so much dollar when taking a loser.So you will reduce your exposure,You will start risking less as the account grows.
Avoid what is Strong,Strike at what is Weak
  • #15
  • Feb 9, 2018 12:38pm Feb 9, 2018 12:38pm
Quoting magentfx
{quote} Hi prince If you wan to be successful in this game.Forget everything you have learnt from FF and start new.See only the bulls and bear fighting.only this can help you in the long run atleast 10 years.You need these many years to be consistently successful. Do not follow any system or indicator. And about 1-3% its possible when your account is small.When your account grows to a large number.its very difficult to see you losing so much dollar when taking a loser.So you will reduce your exposure,You will start risking less as the account grows....

I have to be careful how i respond to each comment and some i may not respond to. As it relates to the percentage comment i agree, but look on Warren Buffett, Mark Zuckerberg, and Jeff Bezos—lost billions in a matter of hours, based on what the report said, saying that this is at least on paper. That is just a percentage of their portfolio a small amount.

I am open to suggestions and recommendations, my inbox has space if you cannot mention here publicly, but doing it publicly would help those who come along. Thanks for your time.
R:R "Percentage Focus"
  • #16
  • Feb 9, 2018 12:50pm Feb 9, 2018 12:50pm
With regard to the Risk part, I wouldn't recommend trading the same system on related pairs, unless you spread the system predefined risk on those pairs.
No guts, no glory
  • #17
  • Feb 9, 2018 1:08pm Feb 9, 2018 1:08pm
Quoting PrinceJ58
Greetings everyone, with all the systems, knowledge and varying expertise in the financial market here on forex factory, is it possible to formulate a system for the traders here to consistently make 1% to 3% per day and quit for the day without loss on full automation? Share your thoughts, suggestions & recommendations. Just think about 5% to 15% PER WEEK. 20% to 60% for the month. What is your take/opinion?
Those excel spreadsheets are intoxicating aren't they?

I would not put target on what you can make. I would take whatever the market gives you and after you take your profit, then you can calculate what rate of return would have been.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #18
  • Feb 9, 2018 1:15pm Feb 9, 2018 1:15pm
Quoting PrinceJ58
{quote} I have a friend who is an institutional/professional trader (a coach for traders world wide)....
I can see where this is going.

anyway; 1% a day consistently is not doable in my opinion.

If you want to achieve 1% a day on average (or 220% a year); then you have to aim for 2% a day in order to achieve 1% in real life trading.

that is still too high; because you will have to take too much risk to achieve that.

0.5% a day is perhaps more realistic target
  • #19
  • Feb 9, 2018 1:21pm Feb 9, 2018 1:21pm
Quoting alphadude
{quote} I can see where this is going. anyway; 1% a day consistently is not doable in my opinion. If you want to achieve 1% a day on average (or 220% a year); then you have to aim for 2% a day in order to achieve 1% in real life trading. that is still too high; because you will have to take too much risk to achieve that. 0.5% a day is perhaps more realistic target
1% not but 1/2% daily doable

ok
WaBaS Where are Buyers and Sellers
  • #20
  • Feb 9, 2018 1:24pm Feb 9, 2018 1:24pm
Quoting PrinceJ58
Greetings everyone, with all the systems, knowledge and varying expertise in the financial market here on forex factory, is it possible to formulate a system for the traders here to consistently make 1% to 3% per day and quit for the day without loss on full automation? Share your thoughts, suggestions & recommendations. Just think about 5% to 15% PER WEEK. 20% to 60% for the month. What is your take/opinion?
in terms of thinking when I think/dream, I dream 25% daily or sometimes more. hate limiting thoughts
WaBaS Where are Buyers and Sellers
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