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Plan the Trade

  • #4,561
  • Feb 8, 2018 10:01am Feb 8, 2018 10:01am
Now as far as live or sim. Honestly I think it really doesn't matter if someone is trading live or sim. As long as you treat it the same, and are gaining experience and confidence and continue to improve, then you are doing great. It takes time. And in trading we are always striving to get better, even if we are trading live. The learning never ends and the battle to improve continues forever. Trading in sim is extremely important, and I think there is absolutely no shame in trading in sim, no matter how long it takes for someone to go live. And it is a different amount of time for all. Patience, I have learned is the most important thing for me when it comes to trading. Patience in many ways. We need to be patient to let the trades set up, to let the trades work out, to let our winners run, but also in going live. (I am also learning that patience may be the most important thing in life as well.) No one should ever feel pressure to go live, be patient, in reality all we have is time. So what is my answer to the live/sim question? Honestly it is none of you business. With that being said, I really don't mind you asking. I am mostly SIM. I have been trying to transition to live for a while now, but it seems something always comes up. Unexpected events that keep me from trading for a while, or I make a small change in my trading, or the market starts trading erratically. But all this comes with trading, and we deal with it. I do take some trades live. I have found though that it is very difficult for me to change from sim to live during a trading session, so I try to trade live 1 day a week for now, then back to sim to continue to gain confidence. I am not in a huge hurry, as I am confident it will happen, and the longer I wait the more my confidence grows. It did not trade live at all this week with the increase in vol and volatility in the market. I hope to get back on track next week.
  • #4,562
  • Feb 8, 2018 10:10am Feb 8, 2018 10:10am
Quoting dave347
Now as far as live or sim. Honestly I think it really doesn't matter if someone is trading live or sim. As long as you treat it the same, and are gaining experience and confidence and continue to improve, then you are doing great. It takes time. And in trading we are always striving to get better, even if we are trading live. The learning never ends and the battle to improve continues forever. Trading in sim is extremely important, and I think there is absolutely no shame in trading in sim, no matter how long it takes for someone to go live. And...
you are correct dave this is a marathon not a sprint. Only trade live when the plan of attack is in place as well as trade and money management
  • #4,563
  • Feb 8, 2018 10:26am Feb 8, 2018 10:26am
Quoting angus
{quote} It's actually quite simple and quick: Open a Standard Account at FXCM. (Mini accounts don't work, but you can fund a standard account with only $50.00 even though they say you can't.) Fill in this Letter Of Direction available from Sierra and they will link your account to your platform. See this: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.ph...ding.php#Setup Takes about three days in total.

Thanks for this Angus, do they charge comms as well as spreads?
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  • #4,564
  • Feb 8, 2018 10:37am Feb 8, 2018 10:37am
Quoting The Cableguy
{quote} Thanks for this Angus, do they charge comms as well as spreads?
Anytime. No, FXCM only charges commission on FX not CFD's and their spreads aren't too bad either, about 0.6 to 0.9 points on the Dax which is not much worse than the FDAX futures contract which drifts between one and three ticks most of the time - 0.5 to1.5 points. The spreads do sometimes widen dramatically, up to about 12 points, but then anyone who has traded the FDAX Futures contract knows that sometimes that contract's spread goes crazy as well.
  • #4,565
  • Feb 8, 2018 10:43am Feb 8, 2018 10:43am
Quoting dave347
Now as far as live or sim. Honestly I think it really doesn't matter if someone is trading live or sim...
Exactly Dave,

Some people will make the switch more easily than others. It takes an age to get to the stage of consistency - when you can adapt to each and every environment that the market throws at you and make that change effortlessly. We all want the market to just repeat the last set-up identically, but that is where experience is the only answer. The longer that you study and practice the more you remember, the more it becomes a force of habit.

I like to think of it as learning to drive, eg... to begin with, you have to concentrate on everything that you are doing... eventually through practice you sometimes even arrive at your destination and think, hell, i must have been daydreaming... did i stop at that junction back there and look to see if anything was coming? I must have... but it is just second nature, you don't have to even think about anymore. Well, you get my point.

Once you are that kind of zone, then it is simply a case of going from 1 contract to 2... to 3 etc
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  • #4,566
  • Feb 8, 2018 10:57am Feb 8, 2018 10:57am
Trading boils down to confidence of ones trading approach. So how does one get that confidence? First you backrest it which isn't hard since no indicators are involved. Then those that have a platform where you can replay you practice putting on those trades. When you have done that and you see the approach works you then demo live and once it becomes obvious and you are profitable in demo then you go live
  • #4,567
  • Feb 8, 2018 11:06am Feb 8, 2018 11:06am
Quoting angus
{quote} Anytime. No, FXCM only charges commission on FX not CFD's and their spreads aren't too bad either, about 0.6 to 0.9 points on the Dax which is not much worse than the FDAX futures contract which drifts between one and three ticks most of the time - 0.5 to1.5 points. The spreads do sometimes widen dramatically, up to about 12 points, but then anyone who has traded the FDAX Futures contract knows that sometimes that contract's spread goes crazy as well.

Ok, i've just had a half hour webchat with an Lmax agent.

They offer a US tech 100 mini, with minimum position of as little as $1 a point, but... they charge $0.32 a side and they have variable spreads, of which i noticed frequently hitting 1.5 points. Now i know it is volatile right now, but that kills it for me. It doesn't matter that it might be 0.5 one second, if it widens the next, you will always have to account for that.

With IG, they have a fixed 1 point spread and no comms to pay, so when you look at the times that the minimum stoploss distance costs you, it probably won't be any worse than losing $0.64 comms + $1 average spread per trade/per $1 position size... That works out way more expensive then AMP or Infinity, just purely the fact that you can use Sierra and trade with small positions.

Swings and roundabouts, i guess, but IG's platform is very good. Just purely the min stop distance that sets them back...
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  • #4,568
  • Feb 8, 2018 11:12am Feb 8, 2018 11:12am
Remember cfd like forex is a made market based on futures price which means spread is not what it appears to be
  • #4,569
  • Feb 8, 2018 11:26am Feb 8, 2018 11:26am
Quoting Divergence
Remember cfd like forex is a made market based on futures price which means spread is not what it appears to be
I don't know what experiences you've had in the FX market but the spreads I see are the spreads I pay, the market makers tend to be the same institutions, sometimes with a scammy broker in between, sometimes with an honest broker in between, just depends who you trade with. FX is no more a scam than any other market, it's probably actually less of a scam because of it's size which means you still do get price discovery, not that that really makes much difference to a daytrader.
  • #4,570
  • Feb 8, 2018 11:33am Feb 8, 2018 11:33am
What I mean Angus is same futures price of Euro is 1.10 the fx brokers (all are market makers) make a market from 1.1011 to 1.1013 so you .5 spread is really more
  • #4,571
  • Feb 8, 2018 11:50am Feb 8, 2018 11:50am
Quoting Divergence
What I mean Angus is same futures price of Euro is 1.10 the fx brokers (all are market makers) make a market from 1.1011 to 1.1013 so you .5 spread is really more
I understand what you mean. It's not worth arguing about it though with you because you're one of the few decent people here who is always willing to help and is not obnoxious or mean!
  • #4,572
  • Feb 8, 2018 11:53am Feb 8, 2018 11:53am
I appreciate that angus we are just discussing all you have to do is look at futures current price and fx cfd brokers price and you will see and know the difference with dax it's usually 7 pts
  • #4,573
  • Edited Feb 9, 2018 1:47am Feb 8, 2018 12:01pm | Edited Feb 9, 2018 1:47am
Quoting angus
{quote} It's actually quite simple and quick: Open a Standard Account at FXCM. (Mini accounts don't work, but you can fund a standard account with only $50.00 even though they say you can't.) Fill in this Letter Of Direction available from Sierra and they will link your account to your platform. See this: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.ph...ding.php#Setup Takes about three days in total.
CG - I'd like to chip in my 2c, as I agree with most of the comments angus is making.

When I cleaned out my account at IB (best broker imho, but no $500 intraday futures margins) to pay legal bills, as a long-time NinjaTrader user I opened an account with their brokerage, giving me a futures account via Mirus Futures (clearing via Dorman, and Ninja later bought Mirus) and an FXCM account for FX & CFDs. Now, I would NEVER have otherwise opened an account with FXCM - a bucket shop as far as I knew - and was surprised Ninja partnered with them. But I discovered things have changed hugely with a few of the FX brokers & FXCM is one of them. Having traded 6E Euro futures a great deal, it used to be that often an identical position in the Euro FX would get stopped to the pip, whereas the exchange-controlled futures contract would not, a clear sign of broker manipulation. It doesn't happen any more with serious brokers (although of course obvious stop areas get tested in all markets) & the FX / CFD equivalent is often cheaper to trade.

For example : EURUSD versus 6E : 0.1 to 0.3 pip spread in liquid hours with a small commission versus 1 tick spread and slightly larger commission.

As angus writes - and unavailable for US traders - if you want to trade the DAX, the Ger30 CFD is better than the FDXM (mini futures) and even the FDAX, as Ger30 is typically 0.9 spread, no commission (FXCM is better than most here)... oh, and Ger30 trades in smaller increments, another plus point.

FXCM were indeed kicked out of the US just over a year or so ago : I withdrew all my funds immediately, but returned them after a few months. Their service has been good as well. I don't like their own Trading Station platform, but MT4 is available (fine for longer term FX), although I have a free Ninja license (as long as I make plenty of futures trades), which I have used since v2 around the turn of the century !

Edit : the difference between the futures price and the cash FX price is because of the offset in delivery, so when the futures contract rolls, it's 3 months out (depending on market), so the difference is at its biggest, it then converges to very close to the same just prior to expiration.

With CFDs like Ger30 and NAS100 I think it's essentially very similar, as the CFD and the futures are both derived from the untradable cash index (DAX and Nasdaq 100 in this example).

Edit2 : most decent platforms have a BidAsk indicator to show the spread live on your chart : here it is on my NQ chart, it stays fairly constant at 1 tick (yellow line Bid / magenta line Ask, the spread is the difference between the two, although H & I have disagreed on this for years ) :

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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To remember which is which : Ask is Above / Bid is Below
  • #4,574
  • Feb 8, 2018 12:04pm Feb 8, 2018 12:04pm
Harold, if price approaches for example the extreme or POC, do you wait for a poke bar or do you enter the trade immediately at the touch?
  • #4,575
  • Feb 8, 2018 12:04pm Feb 8, 2018 12:04pm
Quoting Divergence
I appreciate that angus we are just discussing all you have to do is look at futures current price and fx cfd brokers price and you will see and know the difference with dax it's usually 7 pts
That is because, if I'm not not mistaken, most CFD brokers use the cash index instead of the futures price. (Dividends and interest create the difference). Going back to your earlier comment about futures versus FX pricing if you open up a DOM window on Sierra for the 6E you will see the bid/ask prices (with a spread) just like FX, but the price is quoted as a last price on your chart instead of a bid price and you tend to be more flexible with your order entry options.
  • #4,576
  • Feb 8, 2018 12:06pm Feb 8, 2018 12:06pm
There's no spread to enter market in futures though the spread is the auction
  • #4,577
  • Feb 8, 2018 12:45pm Feb 8, 2018 12:45pm
Quoting jtrade
{quote} CG - I'd like to chip in my 2c, as I agree with most of the comments angus is making. When I cleaned out my account at IB (best broker imho, but no $500 intraday futures margins) to pay legal bills, as a long-time NinjaTrader user I opened an account with their brokerage, giving me a futures account via Mirus Futures (clearing via Dorman, and Ninja later bought Mirus) and an FXCM account for FX & CFDs. Now, I would NEVER have otherwise opened an account with FXCM - a bucket shop as far as I knew - and was surprised Ninja partnered with them....
Sorry, I didn't see your post before I replied. I was also with Mirus until all that nastiness with Zenfire when Ninja had to buy them.
  • #4,578
  • Feb 8, 2018 12:50pm Feb 8, 2018 12:50pm
Quoting Olarion1975
Harold, if price approaches for example the extreme or POC, do you wait for a poke bar or do you enter the trade immediately at the touch?
I don't take trades just at the level I wait for pattern to develop first. I am a pullback TRADER and I use 2b or 123 breaks followed by a pullback for reversal trades
  • #4,579
  • Feb 8, 2018 1:01pm Feb 8, 2018 1:01pm
Quoting jtrade
{quote} CG - I'd like to chip in my 2c, as I agree with most of the comments angus is making : Ask is Above / Bid is Below
Thanks for that JT & Angus)

I remember FXCM's platform now and i remember why i was using it... it wasn't my own account. Anyway, i absolutely hated it with a passion, but the idea of being able to use Sierra is very appealing.

I intend to contact them tomorrow, because it would be nice to be able to just use Sierra with the volume profiles and not have to worry about anything else.

It's funny how you adapt to different chart styles though. The earlier trade stood out like a sore thumb to me on IG's chart. I suppose that is all relevant to the tick rate that you are watching vs the size of the set-up... still... i do like IG's charts.
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  • #4,580
  • Feb 8, 2018 2:48pm Feb 8, 2018 2:48pm
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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