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how to use VSA in forex?

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited 10:04am Feb 2, 2018 9:53am | Edited 10:04am
Hi
I read about VSA trading. Does it work in forex? True volume cannot be known anyway.
How is VSA used to make profits?

Thanks
  • #2
  • Feb 2, 2018 11:51am Feb 2, 2018 11:51am
Quoting waverhythm
Hi I read about VSA trading. Does it work in forex? True volume cannot be known anyway. How is VSA used to make profits? Thanks
You ignore it.
  • #3
  • Feb 2, 2018 10:46pm Feb 2, 2018 10:46pm
Dont listen to this ^^^^^ guy.

You can make money with any shit system, and you can lose money with any great system. Trading comes down to discipline and money management.

If you wanna learn about VSA check this thread out, Im sure you will find more then enough information: https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=540706
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #4
  • Feb 2, 2018 10:56pm Feb 2, 2018 10:56pm
Quoting COGSx86
Dont listen to this ^^^^^ guy. You can make money with any shit system, and you can lose money with any great system. Trading comes down to discipline and money management.
OR maybe she/he should not listen to you?

Question: What winning with a "shit system" has to do with discipline?

Answer: NOTHING

Reason:

a) "Shit system" means it does not provide any advantage over market in longer sample series.
b) You having discipline means you perfectly execute this "shit system", meaning you take perfect entries, perfect exists and manage risk perfectly, according to that "shit system"
c) Since we already know that system is "shit' and by definition will loose in longer sample series (minus cost), YOUR WINNING is only a sign of lucky stroke, meaning your discipline has nothing to do with your winning...

Does it make sense?

If yes, where does it put the rest of your answer is spectrum of reality?
  • #5
  • Feb 2, 2018 11:29pm Feb 2, 2018 11:29pm
Quoting jdieieh
{quote} OR maybe she/he should not listen to you? Question: What winning with a "shit system" has to do with discipline? Answer: NOTHING Reason: a) "Shit system" means it does not provide any advantage over market in longer sample series. b) You having discipline means you perfectly execute this "shit system", meaning you take perfect entries, perfect exists and manage risk perfectly, according to that "shit system" c) Since we already know that system is "shit' and by definition will loose in longer sample series (minus cost), YOUR WINNING is only...
I think he meant to say that all trading systems are shit.
VSA is no better than any other because they are all shit.
Pick your poison.
That's what I say.

not "loose", "lose"
  • #6
  • Feb 2, 2018 11:35pm Feb 2, 2018 11:35pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I think he meant to say that all trading systems are shit. VSA is no better than any other because they are all shit. Pick your poison. That's what I say. not "loose", "lose"
It appears he said as below and I cannot see how his statement could be misinterpreted and and twisted to have other meaning, unless there is strong bias applied

"You can make money with any shit system, and you can lose money with any great system. Trading comes down to discipline and money management. "
  • #7
  • Feb 2, 2018 11:53pm Feb 2, 2018 11:53pm
Quoting jdieieh
{quote} OR maybe she/he should not listen to you? Question: What winning with a "shit system" has to do with discipline? Answer: NOTHING Reason: a) "Shit system" means it does not provide any advantage over market in longer sample series. b) You having discipline means you perfectly execute this "shit system", meaning you take perfect entries, perfect exists and manage risk perfectly, according to that "shit system" c) Since we already know that system is "shit' and by definition will loose in longer sample series (minus cost), YOUR WINNING is only...
Discipline has nothing to do with a shit system, a shit systems is simply shit, hmmmmmm. But does that mean you cannot make money with a shit system?

A system matters not, judge a system by its entries, its exits, its PE, drawdown? Well you should not.

At the end a traders system must follow money management with the focus on discipline, it is the only way to success.
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #8
  • Feb 2, 2018 11:57pm Feb 2, 2018 11:57pm
Quoting COGSx86
{quote} Discipline has nothing to do with a shit system, a shit systems is simply shit, hmmmmmm. But does that mean you cannot make money with a shit system? A system matters not, judge a system by its entries, its exits, its PE, drawdown? Well you should not. At the end a traders system must follow money management with the focus on discipline, it is the only way to success.
Are you telling me, that just because you dont know how to evaluate if a method is profitable or not, you can take even the most obviously NON-profitable method and force it in long term to be profitable purely by execution discipline?

I am sorry, it seems I miss logic in your way of thinking. Anyway, good luck
  • #9
  • Feb 3, 2018 12:12am Feb 3, 2018 12:12am
A NON-profitable method, you should show!
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #10
  • Feb 3, 2018 12:39am Feb 3, 2018 12:39am
Quoting COGSx86
A NON-profitable method, you should show!
Sure, no problem...

System name: Sure Loser
Testing period: 5 years 2012-2016
Testing method: back testing, with quality data and realistic spread and commission (edit: I noticed commission was set to 0, with realistic commission results would be worse)
Starting balance: 1 million
Leverage: 1:1
Trades executed: 29958 (nearly 30 thousand)
Profit/loss $: -980103
Profit/loss %: -98%
Sortino: -0.11

Screenshots below. Perfect, super disciplined execution, the way you will never ever achieve.

You will NOT argue this is a winning system, will you?

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Capture.PNG Size: 76 KB


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Capture2.PNG Size: 46 KB
  • #11
  • Feb 3, 2018 1:38am Feb 3, 2018 1:38am
EA? That is why you fail.
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #12
  • Feb 3, 2018 1:46am Feb 3, 2018 1:46am
Quoting COGSx86
EA? That is why you fail.
Oh boy? Do you work for a marketing department? Judging by your responses you have a lot with people who turn a cat around with a stick

1. I dont fail - show me where did you get this conclusion from
2. I provided you an example of a no profitable system executed with 100% perfect discipline

I am sorry, I dont believe you are able to argue logically and therefor there is no point for further discussion. Good luck
  • #13
  • Feb 3, 2018 1:57am Feb 3, 2018 1:57am
What am I marketing?

Whats the logic of the strategy you provided number one?

leverage 1:1 - money management?
Does the EA know when NFP is?
Does the EA monitor Monetary policy statements and decisions ?
Does the EA change its money management rules, as the markets change?
Does the EA know when presidents tweet?
These are money management ways EAs and traders fail, just naming a few. Many more there is.

Showing a trader a VSA thread was all this was about, troll you have become, derailing this thread you have.
Learn, a forex trader must, unlearn and relearn he will.
  • #14
  • Feb 3, 2018 2:05am Feb 3, 2018 2:05am
Quoting jdieieh
{quote} Sure, no problem... System name: Sure Loser Testing period: 5 years 2012-2016 Testing method: back testing, with quality data and realistic spread and commission (edit: I noticed commission was set to 0, with realistic commission results would be worse) Starting balance: 1 million Leverage: 1:1 Trades executed: 29958 (nearly 30 thousand) Profit/loss $: -980103 Profit/loss %: -98% Sortino: -0.11 Screenshots below. Perfect, super disciplined execution, the way you will never ever achieve. You will NOT argue this is a winning system, will you?...
If you switch the buy and sell orders you have a winner.
  • #15
  • Feb 3, 2018 2:07am Feb 3, 2018 2:07am
Quoting COGSx86
What am I marketing? Whats the logic of the strategy you provided number one? leverage 1:1 - money management? Does the EA know when NFP is? Does the EA monitor Monetary policy statements and decisions ? Does the EA change its money management rules, as the markets change? Does the EA know when presidents tweet? These are money management ways EAs and traders fail, just naming a few. Many more there is. Showing a trader a VSA thread was all this was about, troll you have become, derailing this thread you have.
Are you a 12 year old Star Wars nerd?
  • #16
  • Feb 3, 2018 4:02am Feb 3, 2018 4:02am
Quoting COGSx86
{quote} Discipline has nothing to do with a shit system, a shit systems is simply shit, hmmmmmm. But does that mean you cannot make money with a shit system? A system matters not, judge a system by its entries, its exits, its PE, drawdown? Well you should not. At the end a traders system must follow money management with the focus on discipline, it is the only way to success.
You are telling that a lottery player doesn't wins by luck but by the discipline of losing 5 bucks every week in his life until he hit the jackpot some day!
No greed. No fear. Just maths.
  • #17
  • Feb 3, 2018 4:13am Feb 3, 2018 4:13am
FF have a thread VSA (Volume Spread Analysis) vs LRA (Locked-in Range Analysis)

According to this thread VSA works better in the stock market...
  • #18
  • Edited 5:41am Feb 4, 2018 5:14am | Edited 5:41am
Quoting waverhythm
Hi I read about VSA trading. Does it work in forex? True volume cannot be known anyway. How is VSA used to make profits? Thanks
Hi,
why not try to find it out by ourselfs?
At least from what i know , it is not a System at all. It only helps you in chartreading. Understandig how professional Money move the markets.
Knowing this, should help you when it Comes to trade your own system.
I`m also trying to understand VAS and I found this PDF here at FFactory , ist from
TradeGuider the Tom Williams ‐ VSA Principles
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf VSA.pdf   128 KB | 5,015 downloads

It describes 10 Principles of SOW (Signs of Weakness) and 10 of SOS (signs of Strenth)
Maybee we can find some pendig Charts to explain those Principles.
  • #19
  • Feb 4, 2018 5:38am Feb 4, 2018 5:38am
This is a Chart of the 1 SOS Principle from Tom Williams
Attached Image

SOS – Principle 1
Bottom reversal. A wide spread plus down bar closing on the low. The low and the close is lower than the previous four bars. Followed by an up bar on a wide plus spread closing on the highs. This arrives in a variety of versions but basically the first down bar is a shake‐out usually on so called bad news. The second bar is rapidly marked up to lock traders in (if you shorted) or out of the market if you wanted to buy the market. (people hesitate buying because it now appears expensive to the earlier price.
The last red bar on the Chart is a wide spread downbar with low Close
(spread here stands for: the size of the bar from ist high to ist low,
I dont know what a plus down bar is, any help ?)
  • #20
  • Feb 4, 2018 6:04am Feb 4, 2018 6:04am
This Chart could fit to the SOS Principle 2
Attached Image

and the book says:
SOS – Principle 2
Stopping volume. To stop a down move demand has to overcome the supply. The odd way supply and demand is evident here. As a market falls day after day a point will be reached when the herd cannot stand the losses so they all tend to panic at a similar time. If the price levels reached are now attractive to professional money they will step in and start buying. This activity causes a surge in volume as they buy and cover their short positions.
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