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Metaquotes Will No Longer Sell its MT4 Trading Platform

  • #101
  • Jan 14, 2018 3:09pm Jan 14, 2018 3:09pm
Quoting Pip-Miner
https://brokeree.com/solutions/mt4-v...dealer-plugin/ virtual broker , very worrying for traders with some of the configurations allowable like the Execution rules open for corruption or manipulation by brokers. {image}
I just sent them a hate mail.
i lose money for a living
  • #102
  • Jan 14, 2018 3:20pm Jan 14, 2018 3:20pm
Quoting AndrewBa-
{quote} Hi tylerbose, may I ask you: What are the possibilites for brokers to trade against you?! Or anyone know in which way they are doing so?!
A broker can legally be your counterpart (market maker) even the "regulated" ones. In that case they will profit from your loss and lose if you're profitable.
This result in a conflict of interest, a broker can use some tools (plugins) to make you unprofitable (slippage, spread widening, sl/tp and pending orders not being triggered when they should) some very shady broker can go as far as call you a cheater and say that you abused their system in some way in order to cancel your profits.

Nasty stuff, man.
i lose money for a living
  • #103
  • Jan 14, 2018 3:47pm Jan 14, 2018 3:47pm
Quoting 2dollardog
{quote} I agree with you, but they do try to manipulate FX. I agree that brokers are the biggest problem. edited: added https://tinyurl.com/ybuz8w4w
big banks do that. not brokers.
if I had early data on my desk tbh I would do d same
http://www.businessinsider.com/ons-t...17-6?r=UK&IR=T

https://www.ft.com/content/9776a710-...a-096d89bd2173

but in d end FX can not be fully manipulated. brokers best way of doing it price spikes determined to only mean broker data feed to take stops. this can be mainly happen w scam brokers where u shouldnt work with.
WaBaS Where are Buyers and Sellers
  • #104
  • Jan 14, 2018 3:55pm Jan 14, 2018 3:55pm
Quoting Pip-Miner
{quote} I'm Not defending brokers. I believe you do get put on the a book if your profile is up to standard. You are a low risk trader , have over a certain amount of money in your account (over 10k ) and are a profitable trader ... Some of us are profitable ..

If you are really good as a retail trader, the cheating by retail brokers doesn't stop and will take place on a different level: your a-book trades will be copied internally AND sold as a signal without you ever knowing it. They will make money on your trading again.

And once your signal gets a very large following, it will be used to trade against by the retail aggregator, smart money / algos as they then know the position / weak hand of a large crowd who overleverage your 'conservative low risk' trading....

And the circle repeats itself.
  • #105
  • Jan 14, 2018 3:58pm Jan 14, 2018 3:58pm
Quoting Traditio
{quote} If you are really good as a retail trader, the cheating by retail brokers doesn't stop and will take place on a different level: your a-book trades will be copied internally AND sold as a signal without you ever knowing it. They will make money on your trading again. And once your signal gets a very large following, it will be used to trade against by the retail aggregator, smart money / algos as they then know the position / weak hand of a large crowd who overleverage your 'conservative low risk' trading.... And the circle repeats itself....
I think you can demonstrate this affirmation, dont you?
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #106
  • Jan 14, 2018 3:59pm Jan 14, 2018 3:59pm
Quoting tylerbose
{quote} I just sent them a hate mail.
in terms of VDP credit goes to "Boston Technologies". its d creator
WaBaS Where are Buyers and Sellers
  • #107
  • Jan 14, 2018 4:06pm Jan 14, 2018 4:06pm
Quoting Traditio
{quote} If you are really good as a retail trader, the cheating by retail brokers doesn't stop and will take place on a different level: your a-book trades will be copied internally AND sold as a signal without you ever knowing it. They will make money on your trading again. And once your signal gets a very large following, it will be used to trade against by the retail aggregator, smart money / algos as they then know the position / weak hand of a large crowd who overleverage your 'conservative low risk' trading.... And the circle repeats itself....
By the way, even NDD brokers do this, not only market making desks. MT4 allows extremely easy copying. Can be done by an employee under a fake ID on the many social trading platforms.


I am surprised how un-informed so many traders are. I was absent here for a few years.


Retail FX is a goldmine for the insiders / smart money. On many levels.

.
  • #108
  • Jan 14, 2018 4:15pm Jan 14, 2018 4:15pm
Quoting braintheboss
{quote} I think you can demonstrate this affirmation, dont you?
I was a fund trader and prop trader in a top tier bank till very recently.

One has to know what goes on.

If you are really good as a retail trader and do not want to be b-booked, use at least 2 different brokers to run the same book, so that they can not know what you are doing. (or use an exchange, but your trades will still end up at an aggregator who will take the other side)

This will avoid being a and b booked.
  • #109
  • Jan 14, 2018 4:20pm Jan 14, 2018 4:20pm
Quoting Traditio
{quote} I was a fund trader and prop trader in a top tier bank till very recently. One has to know what goes on. If you are really good as a retail trader and do not want to be b-booked, use at least 2 different brokers to run the same book, so that they can not know what you are doing. (or use an exchange, but your trades will still end up at an aggregator who will take the other side) This will avoid being a and b booked.
I'm guessing I don't understand, because I'm wondering how they wouldn't know when you are still connected to the broker (assuming mt4).

Would you mind cluing me in to what I'm missing?

Thank you kindly for your input, btw
  • #110
  • Jan 14, 2018 4:38pm Jan 14, 2018 4:38pm
Quoting 2dollardog
{quote} I'm guessing I don't understand, because I'm wondering how they wouldn't know when you are still connected to the broker (assuming mt4). Would you mind cluing me in to what I'm missing? Thank you kindly for your input, btw
Hard to explain in 2 minutes. There are different ways of b-booking. As a group (all clients: aggregate positions which are not hedged internally by opposing trades need to be hedged and kept in warehouse or hedged) or as individuals : some clients are individually statistically 'profiled', and when a pattern of consistent results (good and bad) shows, the house will use that 'info' to trade / hedge / warehouse the general risk. If the house itself doesn't do that, the retail aggregator will still do it.

Re being connected with the broker.... remember, you are never anonymous and your positions are always known. Even if you use always the same single ECN Broker. Even malicious employees can trade what they see...

I simply don't care what the broker does with my trades, as I spread the strategy over different brokers. It nets itself out. If they flush me out at one broker, it helps the other side with the other broker and vice versa.
  • #111
  • Jan 14, 2018 4:41pm Jan 14, 2018 4:41pm
Quoting mr.brown
{quote} if u stay away from scam brokers where u can get some clue here at FF n at FPA, u can trade safely. if u hit a scam broker there is no way out. forget d funds. My way of choosing decent broker is reading negative reviews of it. that will give right clue about broker. by reading those, u can really understand if d trader or d broker is scam. hope this helps

This is what I did. I spend weeks researching the complaints, legitimate reviews and SEC filings on US brokers. Eventually, I see a big pattern and learn how that brokers likes to make money. Then, I can choose which scandal is more appropriate within my risk parameters.

Tedious work, but worth it.
  • #112
  • Jan 14, 2018 4:49pm Jan 14, 2018 4:49pm
Quoting Traditio
{quote} Hard to explain in 2 minutes. There are different ways of b-booking. As a group (all clients: aggregate positions which are not hedged internally by opposing trades need to be hedged and kept in warehouse or hedged) or as individuals : some clients are individually statistically 'profiled', and when a pattern of consistent results (good and bad) shows, the house will use that 'info' to trade / hedge / warehouse the general risk. If the house itself doesn't do that, the retail aggregator will still do it. Re being connected with the broker.......


Thank you for trying to clarify. I looked up a-booking and b-booking and understand this now.

I didn't know what to expect so in the beginning I began practicing my trades on backtesting and via demo with a natural 10 pip slippage. Cuts out a lot of good scalp trades, but by now I am anticipatory.

I designed my trading path like a business and included diversification among brokers along the way depending upon account size as well as a periodic extraction of profits to minimize exposure to broker failings (MY gawd, look at FXCM in the US).

As far as I can tell, the best option for using bucket shops is to pick one that is already fat and happy, stay under the radar and put the profits under the mattress as fast as possible. ha
  • #113
  • Jan 14, 2018 4:59pm Jan 14, 2018 4:59pm
Quoting 2dollardog
{quote} This is what I did. I spend weeks researching the complaints, legitimate reviews and SEC filings on US brokers. Eventually, I see a big pattern and learn how that brokers likes to make money. Then, I can choose which scandal is more appropriate within my risk parameters. Tedious work, but worth it.
Yes, it is all part of becoming a skilled trader: due diligence on all levels. selecting brokers, and all sorts of 'operational' processes.

Stick with very well regulated brokers in the best jurisdictions, FCA regulated by preference. Abuse still happens there too but it gets very risky for them to cheat, but there are always backdoors for them.

Btw, I' d be also very careful trusting review sites, there are a lot of shills. But also inexperienced traders who screwed up themselves but still blame others.

I've seen review sites who just like to attract traffic but are really poor quality, poor vetting, poor checking of stories etc

Best is to just do your own due diligence and don't take shortcuts. I donot compromise on anything.
  • #114
  • Jan 14, 2018 5:12pm Jan 14, 2018 5:12pm
Quoting Traditio
{quote} Hard to explain in 2 minutes. There are different ways of b-booking. As a group (all clients: aggregate positions which are not hedged internally by opposing trades need to be hedged and kept in warehouse or hedged) or as individuals : some clients are individually statistically 'profiled', and when a pattern of consistent results (good and bad) shows, the house will use that 'info' to trade / hedge / warehouse the general risk. If the house itself doesn't do that, the retail aggregator will still do it. Re being connected with the broker.......
Thanks for sharing....

"It nets itself out. If they flush me out at one broker, it helps the other side with the other broker and vice versa."....does this mean you go long on one broker and go short on another broker at the same time?
Or send 50% of your trades to one broker and 50% to the second broker?

Trying to understand how you net it out?
Staying in my lane...
  • #115
  • Jan 14, 2018 5:55pm Jan 14, 2018 5:55pm
Quoting Traditio
{quote} If you are really good as a retail trader, the cheating by retail brokers doesn't stop and will take place on a different level: your a-book trades will be copied internally AND sold as a signal without you ever knowing it. They will make money on your trading again. And once your signal gets a very large following, it will be used to trade against by the retail aggregator, smart money / algos as they then know the position / weak hand of a large crowd who overleverage your 'conservative low risk' trading.... And the circle repeats itself....
Im shocked if true..
  • #116
  • Jan 14, 2018 6:27pm Jan 14, 2018 6:27pm
Quoting Traditio
{quote} I was a fund trader and prop trader in a top tier bank till very recently. One has to know what goes on. If you are really good as a retail trader and do not want to be b-booked, use at least 2 different brokers to run the same book, so that they can not know what you are doing. (or use an exchange, but your trades will still end up at an aggregator who will take the other side) This will avoid being a and b booked.
Perhaps, CME EURO futures should be safe as orders are totally anonymous and well regulated.... ?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #117
  • Jan 14, 2018 6:36pm Jan 14, 2018 6:36pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Thanks for sharing.... "It nets itself out. If they flush me out at one broker, it helps the other side with the other broker and vice versa."....does this mean you go long on one broker and go short on another broker at the same time? Or send 50% of your trades to one broker and 50% to the second broker? Trying to understand how you net it out?
I never take the same position with 2 brokers at the same time, only the opposite, to confuse them or at the least, not to give them my trading info. Say I go long with 1 broker same pair, but hedge the risk with the other after a certain profit target is met. If you then change directional view and go short, you close the long position with the first one. That's just one way of doing it. The issue here is you have to monitor the cost of rollovers if you keep the 'imbalance' for too long. There are software apps, even for MT4 I believe (but I don't use them) where you can monitor in real time on 1 GUI the pnl moves and leave the orders for each account with different brokers so as not to have a mismatch or operational hassle.

You could avoid all this hassle of 2 accounts with different brokers by simply using a Prime of Prime broker (POP) who gives you true DMA (Saxo offers this service, but you need a large account 100K plus) and you just have to monitor 1 account then, but they will still see what you are doing.

In the professional world we simply use prime brokers who give us dma, so only the prime broker knows your true position, not any of the other market makers. But if you use 2 prime brokers you can also confuse the PB's so they cannot trade 'off' your positions or use the info in case you don't even trust the prime broker.

You just need to avoid showing your hand to the market basically. If you truly have an edge, you must hide it at all costs as everyone looks for an inefficiency in the market.
  • #118
  • Jan 14, 2018 6:36pm Jan 14, 2018 6:36pm
Quoting Dingoman-two
I Have Pepperstone as Broker, and we had a run in for a number of reasons, and i dumped it all on them in an e-mail (with out predigest of course) and they bent over backwards to help me out, at the end of the day i still dont know if anything has changed, so my question is what would be the best set up i could get from these guy's and how can i verify it, I Trade using a MT4 Program
I don't know what issues you had with Pepperstone, or exactly what you mean by "best setup". I simply ran a couple of small (<10k) standard MT4 accounts -- "standard" is Pepperstone's term for an account where the client pays full spreads but no commissions -- for a few years, and had no obvious problems, except that I've been forced to close them now because I live in New Zealand, and Pepperstone are no longer permitted to operate as a broker for NZ clients.
  • #119
  • Jan 14, 2018 6:41pm Jan 14, 2018 6:41pm
Quoting heispark
{quote} Perhaps, CME EURO futures should be safe as orders are totally anonymous and well regulated.... ?
Yes, I am a big advocate of 1 single central exchange for FX (I think I posted this here a few days ago here), this would instantly eliminate 90 pct of all abuse.

Obviously, the brokers don't like me ...
  • #120
  • Jan 14, 2018 6:54pm Jan 14, 2018 6:54pm
Quoting Pip-Miner
{quote} Im shocked if true..
I know for 100 pct sure this happens, especially offshore, not as a rule but some. And I have been tipped off by 1 ex employee of a UK STP broker who was doing this. Even an STP broker... not just a market maker, had someone in a dark corner doing that. It's very easy and can be done unnoticed and it is hard to prove of course.

And by the way, since we are discussing MT4 , brokers can easily delete trades out of MT4 , from a LIVE server, and hence show distorted track records and sell them as a signal. I know for a fact some dodgy offshore brokers are doing that.
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