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  • #101
  • Dec 19, 2017 6:11am Dec 19, 2017 6:11am
Current situation on running TS Order 3
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 91 KB

Clearly I have decided to let the trades run on ... at this stage at least.

The chart above shows the GBPAUD pending short trade.

It is not far from being triggered and if it triggers then I'll also let it run.

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #102
  • Dec 19, 2017 9:03am Dec 19, 2017 9:03am
TS Order 9 [TS Order 3 (^2)]

Pairs = 3*9 = 27

TS1 AUDCAD + AUDJPY = CADJPY
TS2 AUDNZD + AUDUSD = NZDUSD
TS3 AUDCHF + AUDUSD = USDCHF
TS4 EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS5 EURJPY + AUDJPY = EURAUD
TS6 EURUSD + USDCHF = EURCHF
TS7 GBPUSD + AUDUSD = GBPAUD
TS8 GBPCAD + GBPJPY = CADJPY
TS9 GBPCHF + GBPNZD = NZDCHF

Combinations = ? (that should provide plenty of variety)

Scenario 1
TS1 AUDCAD + AUDJPY = CADJPY
TS2 AUDNZD + AUDUSD = NZDUSD
TS3 AUDCHF + AUDUSD = USDCHF
TS4 EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS5 EURJPY + AUDJPY = EURAUD
TS6 EURUSD + USDCHF = EURCHF
TS7 GBPUSD + AUDUSD = GBPAUD
TS8 GBPCAD + GBPJPY = CADJPY
TS9 GBPCHF + GBPNZD = NZDCHF


Scenario 2
TS1 AUDCAD + AUDJPY = CADJPY
TS2 AUDNZD + AUDUSD = NZDUSD
TS3 AUDCHF + AUDUSD = USDCHF
TS4 EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS5 EURJPY + AUDJPY = EURAUD
TS6 EURUSD + USDCHF = EURCHF
TS7 GBPUSD + AUDUSD = GBPAUD
TS8 GBPCAD + GBPJPY = CADJPY
TS9 GBPCHF + GBPNZD = NZDCHF

Scenario 3
TS1 AUDCAD + AUDJPY = CADJPY
TS2 AUDNZD + AUDUSD = NZDUSD
TS3 AUDCHF + AUDUSD = USDCHF
TS4 EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS5 EURJPY + AUDJPY = EURAUD
TS6 EURUSD + USDCHF = EURCHF
TS7 GBPUSD + AUDUSD = GBPAUD
TS8 GBPCAD + GBPJPY = CADJPY
TS9 GBPCHF + GBPNZD = NZDCHF

I'm sure you all get the point by now and therefore there should be no need to produce all the other combinations.

Design a scenario to your own personal liking based on an inner TS strategy.

Winners Versus Losers Table

Loser (L) = -1%
Winner (W) = +4%

27 L + 0 W = 27*(-1%) + 0*(+4%) = -27%
26 L + 1 W = 26*(-1%) + 1*(+4%) = -22%
25 L + 2 W = 25*(-1%) + 2*(+4%) = -17%
24 L + 3 W = 24*(-1%) + 3*(+4%) = -12%
23 L + 4 W = 23*(-1%) + 4*(+4%) = -7%
22 L + 5 W = 22*(-1%) + 5*(+4%) = -2%
21 L + 6 W = 21*(-1%) + 6*(+4%) = +3%
20 L + 7 W = 20*(-1%) + 7*(+4%) = +8%
19 L + 8 W = 19*(-1%) + 8*(+4%) = +13%
18 L + 9 W = 18*(-1%) + 9*(+4%) = +18%
17 L + 10 W =17*(-1%) + 10*(+4%) = +23%
16 L + 11 W = 16*(-1%) + 11*(+4%) = +28%
15 L + 12W = 15*(-1%) + 12*(+4%) = +33%
14 L + 13 W = 14*(-1%) + 13*(+4%) = +38%
13 L + 14 W = 13*(-1%) + 14*(+4%) = +43%
12 L + 15W = 12*(-1%) + 15*(+4%) = +48%
11 L + 16 W = 11*(-1%) + 16*(+4%) = +53%
10 L + 17 W = 10*(-1%) + 17*(+4%) = +58%
9 L + 18 W = 9*(-1%) + 18*(+4%) = +63%
8 L + 19 W = 8*(-1%) + 19*(+4%) = +68%
7 L + 20W = 7*(-1%) + 20*(+4%) = +73%
6 L + 21W = 6*(-1%) +21*(+4%) = +78%
5 L +22 W = 5*(-1%) +22*(+4%) = +83%
4 L +23 W = 4*(-1%) + 23*(+4%) = +88%
3 L +24 W = 3*(-1%) + 24*(+4%) = +93%
2 L +25 W = 2*(-1%) +25*(+4%) = +98%
1 L +26 W = 1*(-1%) +26*(+4%) = +103%
0 L + 27 W = 0*(-1%) + 27*(+4%) = +108%

Require 6 winners out of 27 trades to be net positive which is only a 22.2% strike rate.

Account Balance = US$50 000
Risk per trade = 1% = 1/100*50 000 = 500
SL = -1% per trade
TP = +4% per trade
Max Loss = 27*(-1%) = -27%
Max Gain = 27*(+4%) = +108%

Risking up to 27% on a TS Order 9 setup is not very wise even if the chances of obtaining -27% are almost 0.

What if:
Risk per trade = 0.2% =0.2/100*50 000 = 100
SL = -0.2% per trade
TP = +0.8% per trade
Max Loss = 27*(-0.2%) = -5.4%
Max Gain = 27*(+0.8%) = +21.6%

Risking up to 5.4% on a TS Order 9 setup might suit more traders however I would recommend comparing this to a TS Order 3.

A TS Order 3 applies the risk across 9 pairs and only 2 winners are needed to be in the money.
A TS Order 9 applies the risk across 27 pairs but you need 6 winners to be in the money.

Consider account balance requirements for both options.
A well funded account may not necessarily mean that an Order 9 needs to be traded.

Trader choice !

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #103
  • Dec 19, 2017 9:15am Dec 19, 2017 9:15am
The current trades in the TS Order 3 setup will again run on.

Back tomorrow.

Good trading,

Masterrmind.........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #104
  • Dec 19, 2017 11:13am Dec 19, 2017 11:13am
Quoting Masterrmind
The current trades in the TS Order 3 setup will again run on. Back tomorrow. Good trading, Masterrmind.........
I think this is basically random trading. so if you have almost 0 chance of losing all 27 trades you also have 0 chance of winning all 27. Which means if you lose 6 trades in a row you could win 6 in a row. there is no edge.
The best thing about this system is 4 to 1 rr. I used mm lines for direction and 4 to 1 rr tp and it worked better than random ts.
  • #105
  • Dec 19, 2017 4:12pm Dec 19, 2017 4:12pm
Hi Mastermind

Please explain How this trade performed ?
The picture show 4 orders touch MML lines triggered
so 4 orders continue run without close manually or Close order manually opposite order triggered ?
We need wait until SL TP hit (4xorder)? ( Octave gap is 1X 15.3 for SL and Octave gap is 4X15.3 for TP)

Please explain how about this 4 orders maintain

Thanks
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #106
  • Dec 19, 2017 4:29pm Dec 19, 2017 4:29pm
Quoting Masterrmind
TS Order 9 [TS Order 3 (^2)] Pairs = 3*9 = 27 TS1 AUDCAD + AUDJPY = CADJPY TS2 AUDNZD + AUDUSD = NZDUSD TS3 AUDCHF + AUDUSD = USDCHF TS4 EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP TS5 EURJPY + AUDJPY = EURAUD TS6 EURUSD + USDCHF = EURCHF TS7 GBPUSD + AUDUSD = GBPAUD TS8 GBPCAD + GBPJPY = CADJPY TS9 GBPCHF + GBPNZD = NZDCHF Combinations = ? (that should provide plenty of variety) Scenario 1 TS1 AUDCAD + AUDJPY = CADJPY TS2 AUDNZD + AUDUSD = NZDUSD TS3 AUDCHF + AUDUSD = USDCHF TS4 EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP TS5 EURJPY + AUDJPY = EURAUD TS6 EURUSD + USDCHF = EURCHF TS7...
As I use dashboards commonly ( 28 pairs ) I can tell you the pairs have a natural compensation behaviour even your strategy works as individual pairs and not as correlation like your strategy. Then with TS looks very had take the worst scenario. Really is easy fit inside a profitable combination by default.

This have a reason when you think pairs never move straight and every wave cycle some pairs compensate partial or fully the losses of others temporally. And from third profitable level ( 9º level ) "19 L + 8 W = 19*(-1%) + 8*(+4%) = +13%" protfis are quite good
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #107
  • Dec 20, 2017 1:10am Dec 20, 2017 1:10am
Quoting hibra68
{quote} I think this is basically random trading. so if you have almost 0 chance of losing all 27 trades you also have 0 chance of winning all 27. Which means if you lose 6 trades in a row you could win 6 in a row. there is no edge. The best thing about this system is 4 to 1 rr. I used mm lines for direction and 4 to 1 rr tp and it worked better than random ts.
The first TS Order 3 was as stated in earlier posts an almost random setup.

I simply chose the 3 by TS's then out of the 8 combinations simply traded the first one.

Look how many pairs were long compared to short ?

To add another level of randomness I will ask a trader to post which scenario 2 to 8 they want me to trade.

The first trader who posts a single number will be the next TS Order 3 that gets traded.

Then I will repeat the request for the next TS Order 3.

Then a discussion of trading results will be outlined.

After this I will choose a TS Order 3 with plenty of thought...trade a few sets and then compare these results to the somewhat random type setups currently being traded.

The strategy is not about winning 27 trades in a row.

In fact even trading a TS Order 3 with 9 entries it is not about having 9 winners.

Rather my M TTT M strategy is all about the minimum number of trades required to achieve a net positive gain whilst maintaining a strict risk management approach.

The MML lines as explained in Post 1 are indeed for forming entry levels stop levels and TP levels.

Masterrmind.......
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #108
  • Dec 20, 2017 2:33am Dec 20, 2017 2:33am
EURUSD

Winning trade

+3.7% ($396.50)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 83 KB

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #109
  • Dec 20, 2017 2:38am Dec 20, 2017 2:38am
AUDNZD

Winning Trade

+4.0% ($395.48)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 80 KB

Masterrmind...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #110
  • Dec 20, 2017 2:40am Dec 20, 2017 2:40am
Quoting best2004
Hi Mastermind Please explain How this trade performed ? The picture show 4 orders touch MML lines triggered so 4 orders continue run without close manually or Close order manually opposite order triggered ? We need wait until SL TP hit (4xorder)? ( Octave gap is 1X 15.3 for SL and Octave gap is 4X15.3 for TP) Please explain how about this 4 orders maintain Thanks {image}
Bro

Please clear my doubt
if 4 order trigger like i show screenshot what i do ? wait until SL TP hit ?
  • #111
  • Dec 20, 2017 2:44am Dec 20, 2017 2:44am
Update on account is as follows:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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6 trades completed ( 3 losers + 3 winners)
2 currently running trades
1 pending order

Masterrmind...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #112
  • Dec 20, 2017 3:37am Dec 20, 2017 3:37am
Quoting best2004
Hi Mastermind Please explain How this trade performed ? The picture show 4 orders touch MML lines triggered so 4 orders continue run without close manually or Close order manually opposite order triggered ? We need wait until SL TP hit (4xorder)? ( Octave gap is 1X 15.3 for SL and Octave gap is 4X15.3 for TP) Please explain how about this 4 orders maintain Thanks {image}
The trader decides on the time of planned entry into the market.

All entries must be placed as close to the same time as possible however expect a small delay due to manual entry of orders.
Higher TS Orders will take longer to enter via a manual approach but all entries should be set as fast as possible and within 15 minutes.
In a faster moving market the trader needs to be well prepared and organised with the set of trade entries headed to the market.

The planned time of entry into the market could be X-hours before or after any session or at session open times or any other times.

All trades are set either at market or pending orders (Buy Stop, Sell Stop or Buy Limit, Sell Limit).

Post 1 outlines the MML lines that short and long trades are allowed to be entered.

The exception to the rule (guideline) is the single cross or pair on the other side of the equation which can be applied from any MML line.

However, it is preferable that such a trade be made as close as possible to an MML line or set as a pending order at the precise MML line.

I cannot tell you the performance of the trade because there is no way I can know at what time the entry was made or was planned to be made.

A trader can also drop down to an M5 TF and wait for the candle to close in the direction of TP.

A long entry would then be made at the close of preferably the first M5 close (bullish only) above the nearest MML line.

A short entry would then be made at the close of preferably the first M5 close (bearish only) below the nearest MML line.

I hope this answers your question and also offers some additional information regarding trade entries.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #113
  • Dec 20, 2017 3:57am Dec 20, 2017 3:57am
Quoting best2004
{quote} Bro Please clear my doubt if 4 order trigger like i show screenshot what i do ? wait until SL TP hit ?
Once you have all the pairs ready to be sent to the market from your TS Order # setup, all trades must be entered at the same time (whatever time you choose).

Yes once the trade is entered into the market (at market or pending order) then you let it run its course, SL or TP is eventual outcome.

At this early stage of the M TTT M Strategy trades should be allowed to run their course as much as possible.

Later I may introduce additional trade management techniques which relate to the current state of the setup (wins Vs losses etc).

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #114
  • Dec 20, 2017 4:20am Dec 20, 2017 4:20am
Quoting braintheboss
{quote} As I use dashboards commonly ( 28 pairs ) I can tell you the pairs have a natural compensation behaviour even your strategy works as individual pairs and not as correlation like your strategy. Then with TS looks very had take the worst scenario. Really is easy fit inside a profitable combination by default. This have a reason when you think pairs never move straight and every wave cycle some pairs compensate partial or fully the losses of others temporally. And from third profitable level ( 9º level ) "19 L + 8 W = 19*(-1%) + 8*(+4%) = +13%"...
Certain TS Order sizes may on average produce better results than others.

Certain trading systems out there perform very well during periods of highly favorable data but collapse when unfavorable data hits the account.

The "more pairs the better" is NOT necessarily relevant here in fact many times less produces more.

More pairs offers far more flexibility but if all trades have been entered at the same time it is a far different story than starting with a smaller TS Order and building into it as the PA unfolds.

As I've mentioned a few times, what I'm attempting to show initially in this M TTT M Strategy is the power of the MM and a very basic approach, almost a set and forget type approach so that the majority of traders can learn and trade it.

If the thread progresses very well and with great interest then I may outline more of the advanced trade management strategies.

Yet many traders may not ever need to learn this part of the strategy because it can be highly profitable in the very basic approach.

The advanced trade management adds another degree though.

Yes lucky 13 huh !

Masterrmind..............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #115
  • Edited 5:19am Dec 20, 2017 4:42am | Edited 5:19am
I opened TS3 yesterday at London open

EURUSD (S), GBPUSD (S), EURGBP (L)
AUDNZD (S), AUDJPY (L), NZDJPY (L)
AUDCAD (S), EURCAD (S), EURAUD (L)

Used only stop entry orders at closest MML line to desired trade direction.

Now I have 5 losers, 1 pending order did not trigger (canceled it after few hours), 1 TP, 3 trades still running. At this time whole TS3 is breakeven.

Very interesting idea to explore, thank you for it, but would like to hear more about better pair selection and MM after entries.


btw I selected totally random pairs, just did position size calculations. And one small notice: EURAUD gap was like ~15 pips at moment of entry and that is too small stop for volatile pair, hit my SL by a pip and shot to TP
  • #116
  • Dec 20, 2017 5:13am Dec 20, 2017 5:13am
Quoting AndyU
I opened TS3 yesterday at London open EURUSD (S), GBPUSD (S), EURGBP (L) AUDNZD (S), AUDJPY (L), NZDJPY (L) AUDCAD (S), EURCAD (S), EURAUD (L) Used only stop entry orders at closest MML line to desired trade direction. Now I have 5 losers, 1 pending order did not trigger (canceled it after few hours), 1 TP, 3 trades still running. At this time whole TS3 is breakeven. Very interesting idea to explore, thank you for it, but would like to hear more about better pair selection and MM after entries.
Now its only the basis but I think you have many implementations as colors. Then it will depend of trader
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #117
  • Dec 20, 2017 5:16am Dec 20, 2017 5:16am
Quoting AndyU
I opened TS3 yesterday at London open EURUSD (S), GBPUSD (S), EURGBP (L) AUDNZD (S), AUDJPY (L), NZDJPY (L) AUDCAD (S), EURCAD (S), EURAUD (L) Used only stop entry orders at closest MML line to desired trade direction. Now I have 5 losers, 1 pending order did not trigger (canceled it after few hours), 1 TP, 3 trades still running. At this time whole TS3 is breakeven. Very interesting idea to explore, thank you for it, but would like to hear more about better pair selection and MM after entries.
Although it is your choice to cancel a pending order.

In your case I would have allowed the pending order to remain active because you have had 5 losers and only 1 winner with 3 trades still running.

Why not give the TS setup a bit more of a chance and allow the pending order time to trigger.

If I were you I would reapply the pending order with the original settings and simply let it sit.

Once you know you have enough winners to be net positive then this is the time you should delete out the pending order and not before.

Perhaps I will add this to the guidelines in Post 1.

Thank you for sharing but please provide a few charts if you can ... it makes for easier discussion.

Masterrmind..............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #118
  • Dec 20, 2017 5:21am Dec 20, 2017 5:21am
Quoting braintheboss
{quote} Now its only the basis but I think you have many implementations as colors. Then it will depend of trader
Exactly right !

For a TS Order 3 which trades 9 pairs there are 8 combinations of the pair ordering (long short per each TS side etc).

So depending on the trader he/she might choose any one of these 8 combinations as a setup.

Later I will start to outline some thought out combinations that I would trade.

But not just yet since I want to show several (almost random type setups in the first place).

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #119
  • Dec 20, 2017 5:39am Dec 20, 2017 5:39am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Exactly right ! For a TS Order 3 which trades 9 pairs there are 8 combinations of the pair ordering (long short per each TS side etc). So depending on the trader he/she might choose any one of these 8 combinations as a setup. Later I will start to outline some thought out combinations that I would trade. But not just yet since I want to show several (almost random type setups in the first place). Masterrmind.............
I think is not much relevant what TS you will use. Anyway in your TE you dont open all TS pairs at same time ( you use pending orders ) but in your last posts you talked about open all pairs in one TS at same time.

Personally I like more not open all pairs at same time but I think you should limit how long a pending trade is waiting because you have GBPAUD 2 days without open creating an unbalanced TS and breaking the main rule about TS need always 3 pairs working
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #120
  • Dec 20, 2017 5:49am Dec 20, 2017 5:49am
EURUSD, short, SL
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GBPUSD, short, SL (by a pip)

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EURGBP, long, still going

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AUDNZD, canceled this order (notice how spread saved me from bad trade)

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AUDJPY, long, TP

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NZDJPY, long, SL

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AUDCAD, short, still going (made a mistake entering position size, so corrected it, that's why it shows 2 trades)

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EURCAD, short, SL

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EURAUD, long, SL by a pip, octave gap was ~15pip at the moment and that was clearly too tight for this pair. Now it shows 30 pips
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