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  • #61
  • Dec 17, 2017 6:42pm Dec 17, 2017 6:42pm
Quoting Platanero
Currently in play as of 4:48PM MST for testing purposes Small live sub-account - Oanda USA Triangulated Set of order 1 M15 charts Acct Balance $400.00 Risk Per Trade 0.1% Risk Per Trade in $ 0.40 EURUSD - Long @ 1.17432 Octave Gap 15.3 Pip Value $10 Lot Size 0.001743 or 174 units SL 22.95 TP 91.8 GBPUSD - Long @ 1.33187 Octave Gap 30.5 Pip Value $10 Lot Size 0.000874 or 87 units SL 45.75 TP 183 EURGBP - Short @ 0.88169 Octave Gap 15.3 Pip Value $13.32 Lot Size 0.0013085 or 130 units SL 22.95 TP 91.8 Note: 0.01 lot = 1000 Units Lets see how long...
Nice work.

I'll be looking to enter a setup today as well but perhaps a little later on.

I will be using the TS Order 3 example posted above.

Charts will be posted near the time of expected entry including any adjustments required for lot sizes in the event that octave gaps have changed.

Both at market and pending orders will be posted to the thread including the terminal screenshot for all 9 entries.

Lets see how your TS cycle unfolds and no holding you back my friend straight in with a live account..

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #62
  • Dec 18, 2017 12:49am Dec 18, 2017 12:49am
Quoting Masterrmind
Fully worked Triangulated Set Order 3 TS Order 3 contains 9 pairs Account Balance = 10 000 Trader assigned risk per trade = 1% = 1/100*10 000 = 100 Total trades = 9 Total Risk per TS Order 3 = 9*(-1%) = -9% Total potential profit per TS Order 3 = 9*(+4%) = +36% If left hand pairs are long then right hand cross must be short ! If right hand cross is long then left hand pairs must be short ! Triangulated Set Order 3 Scenario 1 TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD Scenario 2 TS 1 = AUDNZD +...
From Post 53 I listed the following 6 TS Order 3 scenarios:

Triangulated Set Order 3

Scenario 1
TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD

Scenario 2
TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD

Scenario 3
TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD

Scenario 4
TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD

Scenario 5 (same as Scenario 3 but not 1 trader spotted it ... )
TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD

Scenario 5
TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD

Then I asked the following questions to which I got no response !

Note 1: Are there any missing combinations in the scenarios above ?
Note 2: Which scenario would you choose to trade and why ?

Note 1 ANSWER

Yes there are more combinations based on 3^2-1 there should be 8 scenarios in total.

Scenario 6
TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD

Scenario 7
TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD

Scenario 8
TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD

I will wait for a trader to attempt to answer the question in Note 2.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #63
  • Dec 18, 2017 1:02am Dec 18, 2017 1:02am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} From Post 53 I listed the following 6 TS Order 3 scenarios: Triangulated Set Order 3 Scenario 1 TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD Scenario 2 TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD Scenario 3 TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD Scenario 4 TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD Scenario 5 (same as Scenario 3...
Who can tell me how many combinations there are in a TS Order 5 ?

What about TS Order 7 and TS Order 9 ... how many combinations in these Orders ?

Now you can see that the simple little Triangulated Sets can start to become complicated and complex rather quickly.
And we haven't even started to look at deeper strategies yet !

In a TS Order 3 we have seen that there are 8 combinations (are there ??) so not only can a trader pick 3 different TS's (each has 3 pairs right!) from a large group of possibles but then they can also arrange the directions (long or short) 8 different ways.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #64
  • Dec 18, 2017 1:41am Dec 18, 2017 1:41am
TS Order 3
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 143 KB

TS 1 (AN, AJ, NJ) far left side vertical formation.

TS 2 (EU, GU, EG) is central.

TS 3 (AC, GC, GA) far right side vertical formation.

Being a Monday the action can be slower than other days but this PA today is currently not very exciting for opening trades.

When I do enter the trades I will simply apply Scenario 1 which is as follows:

Scenario 1
TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD

This means I will simply trade long all the blue colored pairs and short for the others.

No thinking has gone into this TS Order 3 setup I'm simply going to trade the first scenario on the list.

Plenty of discussion will follow including an analysis of the trade outcomes (good or bad).

Then the next TS Order 3 (if the market does not completely go flat !) will have plenty more thinking hoing into it.

I could trade both TS Order 3 setups on separate trading accounts with the same broker and same start balance but not at this early learning phase as it might cause some confusion and I'm trying to avoid that as much as possible.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #65
  • Dec 18, 2017 2:01am Dec 18, 2017 2:01am
Quoting Masterrmind
TS Order 3 {image} TS 1 (AN, AJ, NJ) far left side vertical formation. TS 2 (EU, GU, EG) is central. TS 3 (AC, GC, GA) far right side vertical formation. Being a Monday the action can be slower than other days but this PA today is currently not very exciting for opening trades. When I do enter the trades I will simply apply Scenario 1 which is as follows: Scenario 1 TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD This means I will simply trade long all the blue colored pairs and short for the others....
TS Order 3 (almost random approach)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Check the stops and the TPs to ensure 4 to 1 R:r is maintained throughout.

Due to pending orders on many trades there is no immediate guarantee that these trades will trigger today.

If price is close enough to an MML line then I enter at market otherwise its a pending order.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #66
  • Dec 18, 2017 2:08am Dec 18, 2017 2:08am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} TS Order 3 (almost random approach) {image} Check the stops and the TPs to ensure 4 to 1 R:r is maintained throughout. Due to pending orders on many trades there is no immediate guarantee that these trades will trigger today. If price is close enough to an MML line then I enter at market otherwise its a pending order. Masterrmind.............
Simply checked all trade stops by mousing over the SL lines.

Adjusted the stops on 2 trades as they were marginally over the 1% assigned limit (or $100 in the case of this account balance).

Masterrmind..............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #67
  • Dec 18, 2017 2:18am Dec 18, 2017 2:18am
cannot work, you need larger stop loss for this method, min 20 pips
  • #68
  • Edited 3:35am Dec 18, 2017 3:19am | Edited 3:35am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} TS Order 3 (almost random approach) {image} Check the stops and the TPs to ensure 4 to 1 R:r is maintained throughout. Due to pending orders on many trades there is no immediate guarantee that these trades will trigger today. If price is close enough to an MML line then I enter at market otherwise its a pending order. Masterrmind.............
That can create an unbalance hedge because you can overlap some Order groups partially making the max risk bigger than theorical. I think that problem is the difficult part of manage this MM. You can take different approaches but I'm not sure if one its enough for cover all possibilities. Maybe depending how many groups have their pairs opened and if they are profitable or not you have use a fixed approach like your pending orders or one more flexible. Im thinking group all partial Order groups in one and work like normal Order group with all his pairs opened
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #69
  • Dec 18, 2017 3:36am Dec 18, 2017 3:36am
Quoting Fernand
cannot work, you need larger stop loss for this method, min 20 pips
Perhaps you would be so kind as to elaborate as to exactly why it "cannot work".

Saying that the stops need to be a minimum of 20 pips does not really tell me anything.

The first TS Order 3 is simply an example and as posted above I mentioned that it was an almost random type approach since all I did was start trading Scenario 1 which has 6 pairs running long and 3 pairs short.

Lets wait until this first one completes and then as I also stated above I'll make plenty of comments about it.

Masterrmind...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #70
  • Dec 18, 2017 4:29am Dec 18, 2017 4:29am
Quoting braintheboss
{quote} That can create an unbalance hedge because you can overlap some Order groups partially making the max risk bigger than theorical. I think that problem is the difficult part of manage this MM. You can take different approaches but I'm not sure if one its enough for cover all possibilities. Maybe depending how many groups have their pairs opened and if they are profitable or not you have use a fixed approach like your pending orders or one more flexible. Im thinking group all partial Order groups in one and work like normal Order group with...
Correct !

The first TS Order 3 is to create some discussion.

I certainly did not say it would be a good example, nor did I say it would be bad.

It is simply 1 example of many.

There are many different approaches but there are also some that are generally far better than others.

Its great to start talking about the good, the bad, and the ugly about such a 'non-thinking' type TS entry.

Remember though that all that is needed to be a successful cycle of TS's in this Order 3 is to have only 2 winning trades.

So as soon as 2 trades out of 9 close in profit, I can if I wish simply close out all remaining trades and move onto the next.

I can look at all 8 scenarios for this TS Order 3 (with its TS pairings) which I might do very soon and suggest which ones I would favor over others and the reasons why.

The current demo account will be the forward test for a few different ones including a different choice of pairs as well.

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #71
  • Dec 18, 2017 4:32am Dec 18, 2017 4:32am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Triangulated Set Order 3 TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD The Lot sizes are calculated as follows: Pair 1 = AUDNZD Octave gap is 15.3 Pip Value is 7.02 Lot Size = 100/[15.3*7.02] = 0.93 lots Pair 2 = AUDJPY Octave gap is 19.5 pips Pip Value is 8.91 Lot Size = 100/[19.5*8.91] = 0.57 lots Pair 3 = NZDJPY Octave gap is 9.8 pips Pip Value is 8.91 Lot Size = 100/[9.8*8.91] = 1.14 lots Pair 4 = EURUSD Octave gap is 15.3 pips Pip Value is 10 Lot Size = 100/[15.3*10] = 0.65 lots Pair...
Hi Masterrmind,

Pair 6 = EURGBP
Octave gap is 7.6 pips
Pip Value is 13.33
Lot Size = 100/[7.6*13.33] = 0.98 lots

I can not get the Pip val 13, my calcul is 11.3 ... need help to find my error, thank you
  • #72
  • Dec 18, 2017 4:35am Dec 18, 2017 4:35am
AUDJPY

Loss Trade

-1%
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 79 KB

EURGBP

Loss Trade

-1%
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot2.png Size: 77 KB

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #73
  • Dec 18, 2017 4:49am Dec 18, 2017 4:49am
GBPUSD

Loss Trade

-1%
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 78 KB

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #74
  • Dec 18, 2017 4:55am Dec 18, 2017 4:55am
Quoting togerhard
{quote} Hi Masterrmind, Pair 6 = EURGBP Octave gap is 7.6 pips Pip Value is 13.33 Lot Size = 100/[7.6*13.33] = 0.98 lots I can not get the Pip val 13, my calcul is 11.3 ... need help to find my error, thank you
Here you go my friend.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Note that the pip value formula also depends on the exchange rate so it does vary a little over a short period of time.

What is the denominated currency of your trading account? Not US$ I would say.

Octave Gap is 15.3 pips on my broker.

Masterrmind...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #75
  • Dec 18, 2017 5:03am Dec 18, 2017 5:03am
GBPAUD is the only trade not yet to be triggered.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 77 KB

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #76
  • Dec 18, 2017 5:04am Dec 18, 2017 5:04am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Correct ! The first TS Order 3 is to create some discussion. I certainly did not say it would be a good example, nor did I say it would be bad. It is simply 1 example of many. There are many different approaches but there are also some that are generally far better than others. Its great to start talking about the good, the bad, and the ugly about such a 'non-thinking' type TS entry. Remember though that all that is needed to be a successful cycle of TS's in this Order 3 is to have only 2 winning trades. So as soon as 2 trades out of 9 close...
I agree but you know when you trading you never can be sure about in the future you will get a bad row of losses. Then when I think about maximize profits I'm doing thinking in get a good bag for cover the future bad moments more that be rich faster.

Ideal trading is your bad moments never eat fully your last profits doing your long term profits grow over time. Then when you have market in your favor the first thing you try is maximize profits. About group partial opened groups idea is like this...

TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD

We can think a group will need a X candles/time range for decide if its a full or partial pair. You dont want trades in one group are opened with a big time shift because that not only create very unbalance hedge. This affect to future trades opened in that TS because you need all pairs are closed in that TS are closed for open that TS again breaking the natural cycle ( market is a variable time cycle of waves )

Then we set a 4 hours max time since first trade opened in one pair for taking it as full TS

OPENED PAIRS:

TS 1 = AUDNZD ( partial group )
TS 2 = EURUSD, GBPUSD, EURGBP ( full group because all trades opened before 4 hours first pair was opened )
TS 3 = GBPCAD, GBPAUD ( partial group )

As T2 is full you let run it until every pair reach their limits. TS 1/3 can have 2 options:

1) You mix both in one TS ( AUDNZD, GBPCAD, GBPAUD ) and treat them as full group
2) You mix both like above but when group reach sone profit/loss you take individual pair actions.
- In case group is green you close the bad trade letting run profitable pairs.
- In case group is red you can take different approaches. One can be close bad pairs. Other option is close or not depending if new pairs were added and how are performing.

And the last option depends if one partial TS is full over time. Then you can check when a TS is full if have better profit than partial mixed TS for deatach it and take it as normal full TS.

I think that can be the simple base of a dynamic TS selection. More complex selection can be later
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #77
  • Dec 18, 2017 5:05am Dec 18, 2017 5:05am
Other Trades in progress less the 3 losers ofcourse.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 81 KB

Masterrmind...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #78
  • Dec 18, 2017 5:18am Dec 18, 2017 5:18am
Quoting braintheboss
{quote} I agree but you know when you trading you never can be sure about in the future you will get a bad row of losses. Then when I think about maximize profits I'm doing thinking in get a good bag for cover the future bad moments more that be rich faster. Ideal trading is your bad moments never eat fully your last profits doing your long term profits grow over time. Then when you have market in your favor the first thing you try is maximize profits. About group partial opened groups idea is like this... TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY TS 2 =...
This system works because the odds are on our side.

Consider the probability of having all 9 losses in a row !
Now consider the chances that this repeats itself in the very next cycle of TS's.

Then consider the probability of winning 2 trades out of 9 !

Often if you let a trade run on the PA might reverse and you get stopped out unless you close it early.

A more complex or should I say a far more thought out TS Order 3 will have its advantages however, a higher TF works better most of the time !

The more you trade these setups the more interesting they become.

Its an great system but let the examples pave the way.

Over time I'll move towards more thought out TS's but for now lets just show what happens in trading any old setup but always maintaining a 4 to 1 reward to risk ratio and a known %loss per trade.

Thanks for the comments they are appreciated.

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #79
  • Dec 18, 2017 5:20am Dec 18, 2017 5:20am
Anyone notice the mistake in the AJ trade ?

Masterrmind...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #80
  • Dec 18, 2017 5:35am Dec 18, 2017 5:35am
I also have M TTT M Version 2 zip to upload to Post 1.

However, for some unknown reason it keeps giving an error and won't upload.

Anyone know why ?

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
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