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  • #21
  • Dec 14, 2017 7:32am Dec 14, 2017 7:32am
Quoting hibra68
{quote} hi mastermind, tnx for the system. i have a couple of questions, first 15 min mml octaves are around 20pips generally, dont you think the sl will be hit too frequently? second, do you open same lotsize for all pairs in the same ts set? the reason i ask is because of different pip values for dif pairs.
From a probability perspective a smaller stop is more likely to get hit than a much wider stop.

However, we only seek a very low strike rate to be profitable.

Using a 4 to 1 Reward to Risk ratio we only need to win 2 trades out of every 9 to be profitable.

Thats only being right 22.2% of the time !

And wrong 77.8% of the time !

5/9 winners will yield a 16% gain.

Ofcourse I could keep spitting out numbers and ratios and probabilities for a very long time.

What I will say though is that this approach can be very easily adapted to the higher TFs such as H1, H4, D1 and beyond.

However, for Order 3 TS's on higher TFs it requires deeper pockets in general partly due to bigger stops involved.

In Post 1 I outlined the formula for calculating the lot sizes.

Yes they will be different for different base currencies due a different pip value even if the octave gap is identical.

Then ofcourse lot sizes will clearly be different when octave gaps are different.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #22
  • Dec 14, 2017 8:16am Dec 14, 2017 8:16am
Order 3 Setup

Our example TS of Order 3 is as follows:
Order 3

TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD


So our pairs are simply:

Pair 1 = AUDNZD
Octave gap is 15.3

Pair 2 = AUDJPY
Octave gap is 19.5 pips

Pair 3 = NZDJPY
Octave gap is 9.8 pips

Pair 4 = EURUSD
Octave gap is 15.3 pips

Pair 5 = GBPUSD
Octave gap is 15.3 pips

Pair 6 = EURGBP
Octave gap is 7.6 pips

Pair 7 = AUDCAD
Octave gap is 30.5 pips

Pair 8 = GBPCAD
Octave gap is 30.5 pips

Pair 9 = GBPAUD
Octave gap is 61 pips

The octave gap is shown on each chart.

The octave gap value will be the desired SL in pips.

Applying the Lot size formula (Excel is useful here) determine the lot size for each of the 9 pairs.

Do not assume that the same Octave gap will produce the same lot size ... it will not if the pip value is different.

The pip value can be determined by using the indicator and inputting Lot size = 1.0 and pips = 1 for each of the 9 pairs.

Make use of the instrument changer to expedite the process by simply clicking on the appropriate tab for a desired pair.

Masterrmind..............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #23
  • Dec 14, 2017 8:21am Dec 14, 2017 8:21am
I'll wait now until some capable trader posts the correct lot sizes.

There will be 9 lot sizes, one for each pair.

Then the next step "Setting up the entries", can be outlined.

The octave gaps can ocassionally vary between brokers.

So I would suggest that traders use the data provided by their own brokers.

ps. Some capable trader please calculate the lot sizes for a balance of either 1000, 5000 or 10 000 and post it to the thread.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #24
  • Dec 14, 2017 8:31am Dec 14, 2017 8:31am
I'll be back tomorrow to check on progress.

Time to rest I'm afraid.

Good trading,

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #25
  • Dec 14, 2017 5:52pm Dec 14, 2017 5:52pm
Using Baby Pips position size calculator and Account Currency as USD $10,000:

AUDNZD (using NZDUSD Bid price = 0.69815) : 0.9362 Lots or... 0.94 Lots
AUDJPY (using USDJPY Ask price = 112.386) : 0.5763 Lots or... 0.58 Lots

I could keep going but you get the idea...
  • #26
  • Dec 14, 2017 5:56pm Dec 14, 2017 5:56pm
...using your rule of 1% risk, that is
  • #27
  • Dec 14, 2017 6:04pm Dec 14, 2017 6:04pm
Lot Size Formula

Lot Size of Pair = $Risk per Trade / [Octave Gap*Pair pip value per lot]

$Risk per Trade is obtained from taking the assigned Risk% of the Account Balance

Octave Gap is read off the chart for the relative pair

Pair pip value per lot is read off the chart (or via contract specifications) as a value representing 1 pip for a volume of 1 lot

Now there is enough information to complete all the lot sizes over all the required pairs.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #28
  • Dec 14, 2017 6:17pm Dec 14, 2017 6:17pm
Quoting the-game
Using Baby Pips position size calculator and Account Currency as USD $10,000: AUDNZD (using NZDUSD Bid price = 0.69815) : 0.9362 Lots or... 0.94 Lots AUDJPY (using USDJPY Ask price = 112.386) : 0.5763 Lots or... 0.58 Lots I could keep going but you get the idea...
Looks like you are headed in the right direction.

The current exchange rate has plenty to say about it since it changes dynamically when the market is moving except EU which remains at 10.
For the purposes of these initial calculations clearly they would be applied just prior to a planned entry.

It is also wise to monitor the actual SLs of all pairs from time to time to ensure that when mousing over the SL line that every trade is not greater than the assigned risk per pair be it 0.5%, 1% or other value.

If it is greater than the assigned $ amount then the trader has the option to drag the SL so that risk per trade falls within the assigned risk setting.

Setting out the information (and data) in a neat table or logical order is very useful here.

Although calculators are useful and timely it is perhaps better initially to go through the whole process manually.

Applying the right bid or ask and considering if a trade is long or short can also be considered.

However, in this thread I will be simply applying the pip values per pair as per the indicator provided in the zip in post 1.

Most values for 1 pip at 1 lot volume will range somewhere between 5 to 13 so if you get values vastly different to these then do a re-check.

Later today I will provide the calculated values for the Triangulated Set of Order 3 for the pairs given in the posts above.

Masterrmind...........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #29
  • Dec 14, 2017 10:38pm Dec 14, 2017 10:38pm
I think an EA is definetly needed for this system. It would take one too much time to figure out proper SL/TP and direction of trade and etc. The more TS' that you have the more complex and timeconsuming it will get.

The EA could choose the best option for the combination of pairs to be chosen for a given TS set by determining the best level of entry for buy and sell sets. For example if pairs with Euro as base currencies are at -2/8P than it will use Euro base currencies as buys and etc. You could program the EA to choose best option the closer to -2/8 or 2/8 the better for buy/ sell per each pair.
  • #30
  • Dec 15, 2017 6:17am Dec 15, 2017 6:17am
Quoting hibra68
I think an EA is definetly needed for this system. It would take one too much time to figure out proper SL/TP and direction of trade and etc. The more TS' that you have the more complex and timeconsuming it will get. The EA could choose the best option for the combination of pairs to be chosen for a given TS set by determining the best level of entry for buy and sell sets. For example if pairs with Euro as base currencies are at -2/8P than it will use Euro base currencies as buys and etc. You could program the EA to choose best option the closer...
I'd suggest running through the method start to finish in manual mode after which an EA could be considered.

The trading method is not difficult if applied in an almost random walk approach.
In terms of the choice of TS's to trade in your setup a random approach can be used, or only certain base currencies with others or only certain counter currencies with others.

The higher the Order of TS traded the greater the options afforded the trader but the greater the complexity.

What does the individual trader seek ?

I prefer to let the trader decide.

This method can indeed become highly complex and complicated when traded in hedge or other advanced formats.

Especially in dynamic mode when considering floating DD% and the unfolding equity curve and knowing what pairs at what times and what lot sizes need to be applied to stabilize the account.

For this type of purpose an advanced EA would be rather useful.

The good news though is that a trader need not get too advanced in the M TTT M Strategy if they do not wish too.

Why ?

Recall that we only require 2 winners from 9 entries to be profitable when trading a Triangulated Set of Order 3.

Any more than 2 winners from the 9 entries and the account is starting to look really good.

In any case it does not take that long to decide what total risk to apply across the account, then based on the TS Order# the risk per trade, sub in the octave gap, the pip value per lot into the lot size formula for the 9 entries and you are almost done.

Deciding what TS's to trade is at the traders discretion.
The choice can be a detailed exercise itself if you want it to be or it can be a very simple approach.

For example, a trader could consider the base and counter currency counts in a TS('s) they plan to trade.

How many AUD as base ?
How many AUD as counter ?

How many CAD as base ?
How many CAD as counter ?

How many GBP as base ?
How many GBP as counter ?

How many NZD as base ?
How many NZD as counter ?

What about when a trader uses CHF ?
What about when a trader uses EUR ?
What about when a trader uses JPY ?
What about when a trader uses SGD ?

As I said the approach can become rather complex rather quickly if you allow it and this is before trading has even started.
Controlling floating DD using base and counter currencies in a dynamic mode is another thing altogether.

I am yet to find an EA or indeed a human to determine the best level for an entry.
Sure they get it right sometimes but most of the time they are far from being right.

The M TTT M Strategy to some extent relies a little bit more on the probability of getting multiple losers and only needing a very poor win loss ratio to be profitable.

Use the weekend to study the material, sort out some TS's and the order you wish to trade and next week unleash it in the market in demo mode.

Good Trading,

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #31
  • Dec 15, 2017 7:23am Dec 15, 2017 7:23am
Win Loss Scenarios

Reward to Risk Ratio fixed at 4 to 1.

Lets assume a trader assigns a risk per trade of 1% for any trade ever taken.

A winning trade (W) = +4%
A losing trade (L) = -1%

Triangulated Set Order 1 (3 Pairs traded)

3 L + 0 W = 3*(-1%) + 0*(+4%) = -3%
2 L + 1 W = 2*(-1%) + 1*(+4%) = +2%
1 L + 2 W = 1*(-1%) + 2*(+4%) = +7%
0 L + 3 W = 0*(-1%) + 3*(+4%) = +12%

Triangulated Set Order 3 (9 Pairs traded)

9 L + 0 W = 9*(-1%) + 0*(+4%) = -9%
8 L + 1 W = 8*(-1%) + 1*(+4%) = -4%
7 L + 2 W = 7*(-1%) + 2*(+4%) = +1%
6 L + 3 W = 6*(-1%) + 3*(+4%) = +6%
5 L + 4 W = 5*(-1%) + 4*(+4%) = +9%
4 L + 5 W = 4*(-1%) + 5*(+4%) = +16%
3 L + 6 W = 3*(-1%) + 6*(+4%) = +21%
2 L + 7 W = 2*(-1%) + 7*(+4%) = +26%
1 L + 8 W = 1*(-1%) + 8*(+4%) = +31%
0 L + 9 W = 0*(-1%) + 9*(+4%) = +36%

Triangulated Set Order 5 (15 Pairs traded)

15 L + 0 W = 15*(-1%) + 0*(+4%) = -15%
14 L + 1 W = 14*(-1%) + 1*(+4%) = -10%
13 L + 2 W = 13*(-1%) + 2*(+4%) = -5%
12 L + 3 W = 12*(-1%) + 3*(+4%) = 0%
11 L + 4 W = 11*(-1%) + 4*(+4%) = +5%
10 L + 5 W = 10*(-1%) + 5*(+4%) = +10%
9 L + 6 W = 9*(-1%) + 6*(+4%) = +15%
8 L + 7 W = 8*(-1%) + 7*(+4%) = +20%
7 L + 8 W = 7*(-1%) + 8*(+4%) = +25%
6 L + 9 W = 6*(-1%) + 9*(+4%) = +30%
5 L + 10 W = 5*(-1%) + 10*(+4%) = +35%
4 L + 11 W = 4*(-1%) + 11*(+4%) = +40%
3 L + 12 W = 3*(-1%) + 12*(+4%) = +45%
2 L + 13 W = 2*(-1%) +13*(+4%) = +50%
1 L + 14 W = 1*(-1%) +14*(+4%) = +55%
0 L + 15 W = 0*(-1%) + 15*(+4%) = +60%

Comments:

Trading TS Order 3
A 1% risk per trade gives a range of -9% to +36%.
If a loss on the setup of -9% is too high then consider reducing the risk per trade to 0.5% then the max loss is -4.5% and a max gain of +18%.

Trading TS Order 5
A 1% risk per trade gives a range of -15% to +60%.
If a loss on the setup of -15% is too high then consider reducing the risk per trade to 0.5% then the max loss is -7.5% and a max gain of +30%.
If a loss of this magnitude is also too much then apply 0.25% risk per trade then the max loss is -3.75% and a max gain of +15%.

Perhaps TS Order 1 is more suitable afterall there are only 3 trades to manage and the potential full loss at 1% risk per trade is only -3%.

Numbers and statistics will only get you so far.
At the end of the day what really counts is the reality of the trade setup.

It is the traders choice to decide which risk profile they prefer.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #32
  • Dec 15, 2017 8:10am Dec 15, 2017 8:10am
Quoting Masterrmind
Order 3 Setup Our example TS of Order 3 is as follows: Order 3 TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD So our pairs are simply: Pair 1 = AUDNZD Octave gap is 15.3 Pair 2 = AUDJPY Octave gap is 19.5 pips Pair 3 = NZDJPY Octave gap is 9.8 pips Pair 4 = EURUSD Octave gap is 15.3 pips Pair 5 = GBPUSD Octave gap is 15.3 pips Pair 6 = EURGBP Octave gap is 7.6 pips Pair 7 = AUDCAD Octave gap is 30.5 pips Pair 8 = GBPCAD Octave gap is 30.5 pips Pair 9 = GBPAUD Octave gap is 61 pips The octave gap is...
Triangulated Set Order 3

TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY
TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP
TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD

The Lot sizes are calculated as follows:

Pair 1 = AUDNZD
Octave gap is 15.3
Pip Value is 7.02
Lot Size = 100/[15.3*7.02] = 0.93 lots

Pair 2 = AUDJPY
Octave gap is 19.5 pips
Pip Value is 8.91
Lot Size = 100/[19.5*8.91] = 0.57 lots

Pair 3 = NZDJPY
Octave gap is 9.8 pips
Pip Value is 8.91
Lot Size = 100/[9.8*8.91] = 1.14 lots

Pair 4 = EURUSD
Octave gap is 15.3 pips
Pip Value is 10
Lot Size = 100/[15.3*10] = 0.65 lots


Pair 5 = GBPUSD
Octave gap is 15.3 pips
Pip Value is 10
Lot Size = 100/[15.3*10] = 0.65 lots


Pair 6 = EURGBP
Octave gap is 7.6 pips
Pip Value is 13.33
Lot Size = 100/[7.6*13.33] = 0.98 lots


Pair 7 = AUDCAD
Octave gap is 30.5 pips
Pip Value is 7.83
Lot Size = 100/[30.5*7.83] = 0.41 lots

Pair 8 = GBPCAD
Octave gap is 30.5 pips (revised to 61 pips on current chart)
Pip Value is 7.83
Lot Size = 100/[61*7.83] = 0.20 lots

Pair 9 = GBPAUD
Octave gap is 61 pips
Pip Value is 7.67
Lot Size = 100/[61*7.67] = 0.21 lots

Clearly an MT4 indicator could be created to do the lot size calculations based on a few user inputs !

Note that the 3rd decimal place is ignored and rounding is not used since we wish to avoid exceeding our assigned risk limit per pair.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #33
  • Dec 15, 2017 8:17am Dec 15, 2017 8:17am
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Triangulated Set Order 3 TS 1 = AUDNZD + AUDJPY = NZDJPY TS 2 = EURUSD + GBPUSD = EURGBP TS 3 = AUDCAD + GBPCAD = GBPAUD The Lot sizes are calculated as follows: Pair 1 = AUDNZD Octave gap is 15.3 Pip Value is 7.02 Lot Size = 100/[15.3*7.02] = 0.93 lots Pair 2 = AUDJPY Octave gap is 19.5 pips Pip Value is 8.91 Lot Size = 100/[19.5*8.91] = 0.57 lots Pair 3 = NZDJPY Octave gap is 9.8 pips Pip Value is 8.91 Lot Size = 100/[9.8*8.91] = 1.14 lots Pair 4 = EURUSD Octave gap is 15.3 pips Pip Value is 10 Lot Size = 100/[15.3*10] = 0.65 lots Pair...
And yet not one trader could complete this simple task.

Goodness me traders !

Additional information will be posted over the weekend.

Next week I will trade a Triangulated Set Order 3 on the demo account.

Be aware that the market is likely to fade off in terms of volatility over the coming days and weeks so careful if you tarde it live.

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #34
  • Dec 15, 2017 8:26am Dec 15, 2017 8:26am
Quoting Masterrmind
Win Loss Scenarios Reward to Risk Ratio fixed at 4 to 1. Lets assume a trader assigns a risk per trade of 1% for any trade ever taken. A winning trade (W) = +4% A losing trade (L) = -1% Triangulated Set Order 1 (3 Pairs traded) 3 L + 0 W = 3*(-1%) + 0*(+4%) = -3% 2 L + 1 W = 2*(-1%) + 1*(+4%) = +2% 1 L + 2 W = 1*(-1%) + 2*(+4%) = +7% 0 L + 3 W = 0*(-1%) + 3*(+4%) = +12% Triangulated Set Order 3 (9 Pairs traded) 9 L + 0 W = 9*(-1%) + 0*(+4%) = -9% 8 L + 1 W = 8*(-1%) + 1*(+4%) = -4% 7 L + 2 W = 7*(-1%) + 2*(+4%) = +1% 6 L + 3 W = 6*(-1%) + 3*(+4%)...
I like this part of strategy. Reading the thread I understand is not relevant what pairs you use in every TS so what TS you will use in a TS Order and what relationship have between them. I'm not sure about this yet
Try don't lose pants never...
  • #35
  • Dec 15, 2017 11:38am Dec 15, 2017 11:38am
Quoting Masterrmind
Win Loss Scenarios Reward to Risk Ratio fixed at 4 to 1. Lets assume a trader assigns a risk per trade of 1% for any trade ever taken. A winning trade (W) = +4% A losing trade (L) = -1% Triangulated Set Order 1 (3 Pairs traded) 3 L + 0 W = 3*(-1%) + 0*(+4%) = -3% 2 L + 1 W = 2*(-1%) + 1*(+4%) = +2% 1 L + 2 W = 1*(-1%) + 2*(+4%) = +7% 0 L + 3 W = 0*(-1%) + 3*(+4%) = +12% Triangulated Set Order 3 (9 Pairs traded) 9 L + 0 W = 9*(-1%) + 0*(+4%) = -9% 8 L + 1 W = 8*(-1%) + 1*(+4%) = -4% 7 L + 2 W = 7*(-1%) + 2*(+4%) = +1% 6 L + 3 W = 6*(-1%) + 3*(+4%)...
you can have an EA tp after the whole ts reaches a certain % profit.
  • #36
  • Dec 15, 2017 9:04pm Dec 15, 2017 9:04pm
Quoting braintheboss
{quote} I like this part of strategy. Reading the thread I understand is not relevant what pairs you use in every TS so what TS you will use in a TS Order and what relationship have between them. I'm not sure about this yet
I'm attempting to introduce the M TTT M Strategy in its most basic form so that traders can understand the method.

Then once they show that they have the basics then I will accelerate the learning curve for those interested.

Traders are free to trade the method in its most basic form or move onto more advanced formats (yes it can become incredibly complex).

By this I mean that deeper thinking can be applied in trading the method.

For example,

1. Bias is long AUD (major turning point, sentiment, fundamentals, other technicals or expectations etc) so I'll go long 2 pairs and short the cross.
2. Since I'm now long AU I might use TS's that are correlated a certain way over a certain TF based on my expectation for time in trade.
3. Now I'll consider the impact of trading the other currencies that currently make up the TS in the AUD setup
4. A trader might start with a TS Order 3 but have prepared a possible extention to a TS Order 5 by adding in TS#4 and TS#5 for certain events.
5. A trader may wish to design 2 by TS Order 3 setups with Ts A Order 3 triggered before TS B Order 3 (risk clearly factored in ofcourse)
6. Many more scanarios can be examined and some become rather complex rather quickly.

I am more than willing to discuss simple random TS's of any reasonable Order.

Initially I'll only discuss the M15 approach to avoid confusion but later I'll take the lid off the higher TFs (H1, H4, D1 etc).

Not all complex TS's will suit all traders hence the reason why I'm starting with a basic TS design almost random in nature.

Its then up to the trader to decide if they are happy to focus on say a TS Order 1 trading only 3 pairs or to progress to an Order 3 or above.

Hedging of TS's is also an interesting area of discussion.

Plenty more to come in the M TTT M Strategy.

Note that this time of the year is good for discussions since the market becomes less active leading up to the end of the year.

I'll still trade TS's though but only on the demo account and I would suggest other traders do the same.

Come mid January 2018 there will be plenty of opportunities to trade multiple TS's.

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #37
  • Dec 15, 2017 9:24pm Dec 15, 2017 9:24pm
Quoting hibra68
{quote} you can have an EA tp after the whole ts reaches a certain % profit.
Yes an EA or script that closes out some or all of your trades at a pre-determined Gain in Equity ($ or %) can be used if that's what you want to do.

However, by doing this you are effectively scalping the market for perhaps smaller gains depending on what level of gain you set in the EA/script.

If you go through the manual part and design a TS of say Order 3 with 9 pairs then you will know in advance what gain follows after X_winners.

In fact it is the same gain in equity for any TS Order 3 so the pairs traded are irrelevant to a point.

A TS Order 3 in its rawest form stands to lose as much as 9% of the account or gain up to 36% (if 1% risk/trade is used on a 4 to 1 R:r ratio).

So assuming you have all the trades in the TS (assuming an Order 3) set with their correct stops and TPs then you could set a %gain in Equity close.

But what value would you apply to the Equity gain closure ? 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% etc

Then I'd be asking you why this value ?

Why not just let the trades run their course ?

The trader has the final say on the matter but I'd tend to be more focussed on what I stand to lose on a TS setup rather than what I might win.

Food for thought.

Masterrmind.............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #38
  • Dec 15, 2017 9:38pm Dec 15, 2017 9:38pm
I hope several traders have gone through the 'fun' part of determining the appropriate lot size of a given pair in a TS setup.

An alert trader would have already realized that the variables that make up the lor size formula could easily be coded into an indicator to make life simpler.

Once trades are entered the trader makes a final mouse over of the SL lines on the chart to ensure risk per trade is <= assigned risk.

If any trader/coder wants to create such an indicator then by all means but only post mq4 file to the thread unless you PM it to me first and then I'll post an ex4 to the thread.

This is so I can check the code before adding it to the M TTT M system.

Failing that I may add in some additional code to a current indicator so that the lot sizes are visible for any account balance and any user defined risk per trade or indeed even a total risk per TS setup can be used.

Masterrmind............
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #39
  • Dec 15, 2017 9:53pm Dec 15, 2017 9:53pm
Quoting Masterrmind
{quote} Yes an EA or script that closes out some or all of your trades at a pre-determined Gain in Equity ($ or %) can be used if that's what you want to do. However, by doing this you are effectively scalping the market for perhaps smaller gains depending on what level of gain you set in the EA/script. If you go through the manual part and design a TS of say Order 3 with 9 pairs then you will know in advance what gain follows after X_winners. In fact it is the same gain in equity for any TS Order 3 so the pairs traded are irrelevant to a point....
If you ultimately will lose 9% than you might want to set tp at 18%
  • #40
  • Dec 15, 2017 10:05pm Dec 15, 2017 10:05pm
You might also want to think about how many currencies your are going long and short.

You should not go long for example AUD too many times because if AUD fails to go long you will be losing on all pairs that are long AUD.

So for example TS sets use AUD for 1 set NZD for the other and GBP for the third.


Also I tried TS of 3 which included 9 pairs. But I made sure all the long trades were close to -2/8 and the short trades were close to 2/8 .

4 trades ended up with SL , 4 ended up with TP and I closed the last trade at profit because its friday. So great result so far.
But I must stress I picked my sets according to where the price was in relation to the octaves.
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