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Price Action Theory

  • #41
  • Dec 12, 2017 3:41am Dec 12, 2017 3:41am
Amazing Thread....

Dont you think a thread on Price Action theory should be served with only naked chart... and not with these indicators ?
  • #42
  • Dec 12, 2017 3:46am Dec 12, 2017 3:46am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} FU, if you look at that template closely there should be no reason whatever to trade that mess. My template even reminds that the market is ranging. Not only is it ranging but the range is narrow. Study the entire picture if you want to learn. This not beginner stuff.

Sorry the template makes me dizzy just looking at it and yes agree it is a mess and no it's not because I want to learn it's because you made an assertion following the bearish engulf that "they" the bears will want to take out the weekly low and in the next breath talking about how the bulls are fighting back. Just think if you don't qualify what you are talking about and in what context anyone new would likely get burned by your interpretation of events.

Regards

Fu
  • #43
  • Dec 12, 2017 4:54am Dec 12, 2017 4:54am
Quoting EfYou
{quote} Sorry the template makes me dizzy just looking at it and yes agree it is a mess and no it's not because I want to learn it's because you made an assertion following the bearish engulf that "they" the bears will want to take out the weekly low and in the next breath talking about how the bulls are fighting back. Just think if you don't qualify what you are talking about and in what context anyone new would likely get burned by your interpretation of events. Regards Fu
My template is designed SPECIFICALLY to keep newbies away. The sheer amount of information on it will overwhelm them, so I do not worry about them. Price action is about what the trader thinks the bears and bulls will do next. That is what my commentary is about. Looking at potential s/r and watching what price may do around these areas.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #44
  • Dec 12, 2017 5:53am Dec 12, 2017 5:53am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} My template is designed SPECIFICALLY to keep newbies away. The sheer amount of information on it will overwhelm them, so I do not worry about them. Price action is about what the trader thinks the bears and bulls will do next. That is what my commentary is about. Looking at potential s/r and watching what price may do around these areas.
Not very benevolent of you to want to keep newbies away but perhaps you should state that in post 1. The thread title says "Price Action Theory" I'm sure you will agree that will be a magnet for someone new, after all they are likely to be wanting to learn PA and associated theory and that title fits the bill. You have also made reference to kindergarten level trading whatever that means but it might be misconstrued as very basic in the eyes of a new trader.

So who is the thread for ? Following this mixed commentary from bearish to bullish do you anticipate getting to a a point that explains a trade and how your template will get you in to the trade ? Or is your purpose just to say that bar was bullish and this bar is bearish etc, because that is stating the obvious and that commentary is useless to everyone not just newbies. If you think PA is about what the bulls and bears will do next, you are not clear about what "next" means. Next minute, 30 mins, hour, day etc ?

So if I tell you I'm not a noob, will you explain to me what your template is telling you and how you will trade it ?

Regards

FU
  • #45
  • Dec 12, 2017 6:07am Dec 12, 2017 6:07am
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} "The entire point of this thread is to show that indicators can be very useful". But you named the thread "Price Action Theory" ???? I'm not a fan of indicators especially if you have an understanding of price action, So far you present nothing in the way of price action. Indicators are profusely marketed by brokers for a reason. Trading markets have been available to anyone with a few hundred bucks for some time now but most wanna-be traders don't have a clue about trading so they are lured in by brokers hawking myriads of indicators with...
What type of chart do you use?
Bar chart is an indicator
Candle chart is an indicator
Line chart is not. It does not show spikes or react to market noise like bar and candle. It does not know a HH, LH HL or LL
So if you use candle to show price then you are using an indicator. The so called Price Action(PA) is based on the candle body and wick's. Which chart is better in theory?
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  • #46
  • Dec 12, 2017 7:24am Dec 12, 2017 7:24am
Quoting EfYou
{quote} Not very benevolent of you to want to keep newbies away but perhaps you should state that in post 1. The thread title says "Price Action Theory" I'm sure you will agree that will be a magnet for someone new, after all they are likely to be wanting to learn PA and associated theory and that title fits the bill. You have also made reference to kindergarten level trading whatever that means but it might be misconstrued as very basic in the eyes of a new trader. So who is the thread for ? Following this mixed commentary from bearish to bullish...
Of course. I would tell you even if you were a newbie, because occasionally newbies will not look to be spoonfed. This template gives a massive amount of information, so ask a single question, and I will give you a single answer. In the meantime I will share what is on my mind as I look at a market.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #47
  • Dec 12, 2017 7:27am Dec 12, 2017 7:27am
Quoting Tekkies
{quote} What type of chart do you use? Bar chart is an indicator Candle chart is an indicator Line chart is not. It does not show spikes or react to market noise like bar and candle. It does not know a HH, LH HL or LL So if you use candle to show price then you are using an indicator. The so called Price Action(PA) is based on the candle body and wick's. Which chart is better in theory? {image}
Great question, some say that price action cannot be read with indicators. This is categorically false. So I am indicators to read price action. 25 of them. As for which are being better, it depends on the trader. Personally I like looking at the internals of a market when I do TA. Hence the template I put together. Indicators are not bad, traders are.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #48
  • Dec 12, 2017 7:28am Dec 12, 2017 7:28am
Quoting live4x
Amazing Thread.... Dont you think a thread on Price Action theory should be served with only naked chart... and not with these indicators ?
PA theory can be served with as many indicators as you want as long as you know how to use them.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #49
  • Dec 12, 2017 7:51am Dec 12, 2017 7:51am
A few things here.
1. Price has broken that double bottom which was also the previous days low.
2. The bears have firmly reasserted control with monthly, weekly and daily bars all being bearish.
3. A failed hammer three bars ago.
4. Rejection of the long term moving average and of the daily pivot
5. All time frames are bearish in relative strength.
6. Tick volume is above both it's moving average and the prior bars tick volume.
7. Heavy tick volume on this candle

If price closes below that double bottom on this candle, I will pull the trigger on the close of the bar. Stop will be at 1811
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If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #50
  • Dec 12, 2017 8:01am Dec 12, 2017 8:01am
Both bull and bear channels have been breached as well.
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If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #51
  • Dec 12, 2017 8:10am Dec 12, 2017 8:10am
Price is approaching a WS38, as well as the prior weekly and current monthly low. This can start a bear flag. There are ways to trade it. Instructions on how to do it are at the Pivot trading thread.
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If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #52
  • Dec 12, 2017 8:16am Dec 12, 2017 8:16am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Of course. I would tell you even if you were a newbie, because occasionally newbies will not look to be spoonfed. This template gives a massive amount of information, so ask a single question, and I will give you a single answer. In the meantime I will share what is on my mind as I look at a market.
I agree many do want to be spoonfed and sadly many lack the ability to recognise the plausibility of the spoon provider.
I don't need to ask a question thank you have committed to something clearer in post 49.

Just think as senior member (not you personally) but there are many who seem to talk a good game without any substance, the system of awarding the RED tag seems to be flawed on this forum in general.

Regards

FU
  • #53
  • Dec 12, 2017 8:30am Dec 12, 2017 8:30am
Quoting EfYou
{quote} I agree many do want to be spoonfed and sadly many lack the ability to recognise the plausibility of the spoon provider. I don't need to ask a question thank you have committed to something clearer in post 49. Just think as senior member (not you personally) but there are many who seem to talk a good game without any substance, the system of awarding the RED tag seems to be flawed on this forum in general. Regards FU
It's true. The Red Flag has some definite drawbacks. I started this thread in the journals section because it will only draw curious people. I could have named it "How to really get rich" or something silly like that. But this really is price action Theory. I know all aspects of price action, and it is never the same way twice, hence it must theory. That is why I name the thread that way. I will not calling things the JMN shadow, or the JMN price cross over. I am here to discuss price action as the technicians did back in the day.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #54
  • Dec 12, 2017 8:35am Dec 12, 2017 8:35am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote}internals of a market
Don't look at the candle, look behind the candle to the reason why the candle is doing what the candle is doing.
No indicator can do that.
24 + candle = 25 indicators on chart would lead to sensory overload. Something like "You look at the forest and missed the tree in front of you"
What you do mention is the use of different templates which change the ruler's of the game for you. One template for that or this.

25 indicator's 25 reason's to trade or not to trade. What happens when it is 12 1/2 both way's.
Which indicator is first among equals?
Would say the naked chart with one indicator = candle is the front runner.

So how does a trader find and apply prices action?
- trend direction
no trend, no trade
- how much volatility
no action, take a hike
- small bar's
go play with toy's
Is price action?
a pattern? = doji, pin bar, head /shoulder, cup and handle, WRB, inside / outside bar,
size of bar / size of wick, support resistance line's, pivot point's not to mention Gann, kegel, renko, harmonic, Elliot waves
every webpage / book has it own version of price action

Comes back to the question what is price action?
internals of a market
To me that is Price Action, short cut to price action is to find out what are the big boy's doing.
- Is the Bank of Japan lower rates
- Is that country going to attack that country
- Will the UN lift the embargo on this country
- Will England walk away from what every they contemplating now
  • #55
  • Dec 12, 2017 9:04am Dec 12, 2017 9:04am
Quoting Tekkies
{quote} Don't look at the candle, look behind the candle to the reason why the candle is doing what the candle is doing. No indicator can do that. 24 + candle = 25 indicators on chart would lead to sensory overload. Something like "You look at the forest and missed the tree in front of you" What you do mention is the use of different templates which change the ruler's of the game for you. One template for that or this. 25 indicator's 25 reason's to trade or not to trade. What happens when it is 12 1/2 both way's. Which indicator is first among equals?...
If you look really really closely Tekkies, every PA book from candles, through Gann, through Wycoff, thru Ickimoku, thru Brooks have a familiar vein. I would also ask you why you think that 25 indicators would give 25 different signals? Then I will give the answer to your 12.5 both ways. If you have not yet figured it out.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #56
  • Dec 12, 2017 12:23pm Dec 12, 2017 12:23pm
I think most understand that there is a difference and a distinction to be made between price bars/candles, objects and indicators. Most reasonable traders do understand that bars/candles are the most fundamentally meaningful representation of price where one is able to see the open, close, high and low in it's most basic form unmolested by any mathematical derivation.

Pure price action is understood by most as the raw movement of bars/candles. The movement occurs at a bar/candle level, a minor structural level and a major structural level. To me price action theory would involve a discussion where one would be able to clearly articulate what is happening with price at a bar level, minor structural level and major structural level without using indicators as is traditionally understood by most. Once you can describe and understand price in this way then you will be way ahead of indicator dependent traders.

In addition objects such as lines, rectangles, triangles and similar are used by traders to highlight interesting candles/bars or structures.

To place price bars/candles and objects in the same category as indicators is an overgeneralization. Sure you can do it if you want to but I think you are fooling yourself if you do. In addition to refuse to acknowledge the distinction is denial and will not serve you well in trading.
  • #57
  • Dec 12, 2017 1:01pm Dec 12, 2017 1:01pm
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Following is a discussion of price action.

1 and 2 are relative swings. (swings are the most basic price structure and understanding them is really the path to understanding price)
3 is an unconfirmed swing because price does not go on to make a higher high after. This failure is important.
4 is outside gap bar and WRB that closes above several previous smaller bars. It establishes the buy line.
5 is where buyers defended positions. Many would call this support.
6 is a WRB gap that decisively closes below the buy line.
7 is where price retested the now broken buy line. Some might call this support turned resistance.
  • #58
  • Edited 1:33pm Dec 12, 2017 1:08pm | Edited 1:33pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} If you look really really closely Tekkies, every PA book from candles, through Gann, through Wycoff, thru Ickimoku, thru Brooks have a familiar vein. I would also ask you why you think that 25 indicators would give 25 different signals? Then I will give the answer to your 12.5 both ways. If you have not yet figured it out.
This stage of the game I know figurative speaking
"do not put you hand on a hot stove you will burn your hand"
Me = Why will I burn my hand? and put my hand on the stove to find out if there is any value to that warning
So that vain is above my pay grade.

As to 25 indie's with 25 signals I can only go to what I know.
That will be time frames - H1 to MN. (Many month's ago you gave sound advice concerning M1 - M30 which payed off. thanks again jmn)
How many time's are those time frame's in agreement. Almost always at first glance, yet there are suitable difference. Each chart is in a new trend, bar, according to his time frame. H1 3 hours before H4, H4 20 hours before D1 D1 4 days before W1 and W1 3 week's before MN. They are in the same direction yet they are not.
Applicable to 25 indie's - maybe.
Indie's they agree and also disagree. Each get different information from the same chart. Some use volume (CCI), other use price of xx bar / x (MA)
other use HL/ LL over xx bars (S/R) combination (Bollinger Bands). Besides that is the lagging / repaint factor (old cleshay - where price has been)

Indicator's can only aid you, whether it is one indie or 25. You as the trader must pull the trigger or plug on a trade
(Old news to old trader's)

What is price action? (google: About 46 400 000 results ) Most say it is "Price action is the movement of a security's price..........." Pardon the word "Bullshit"
It is the description of Price Action not what is price action.
or
This is price action and show a indicator which is a candle bar. Then use pin bar's as the de factor trading method. Again Bxxxxsxxt"
that is trading candle patterns
or
(sorry david / jmn) pivot point's Again Bxxxxsxxt
that is using old values where price have been and has reacted to some physiological barrier
or (pun not intended)
BigE with TMS / TDI Again Bxxxxsxxt
that is relaying on a cross between two MA with applied price action that is S/R and candle pattern
or ...............
or ...............

All PA system use a method that is derived from price action. Better: a form of price action but not the "real" price action.

Hope it make senses.
What is Price Action?
Simple: The reaction of a trader on the movement of price.

edit: Old advice from a old trader
Is it going up (long) or coming down (short)... that's the direction to trade.
  • #59
  • Dec 12, 2017 4:42pm Dec 12, 2017 4:42pm
As expected, a bear flag. There is an opportunity to add to positions after that hammer fails. The market is going into the Asian session. We are only looking for shorts.
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If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #60
  • Dec 12, 2017 4:47pm Dec 12, 2017 4:47pm
Quoting Winston Reed
I think most understand that there is a difference and a distinction to be made between price bars/candles, objects and indicators. Most reasonable traders do understand that bars/candles are the most fundamentally meaningful representation of price where one is able to see the open, close, high and low in it's most basic form unmolested by any mathematical derivation. Pure price action is understood by most as the raw movement of bars/candles. The movement occurs at a bar/candle level, a minor structural level and a major structural level. To me...
If you believe it is denial then that is your belief. My thoughts are an open book on this thread. I have placed a trade and told myself what I think price action will do. Traders do not trade price, they trade other traders, and themselves. I will maintain that any use of an illustration to represent price other than the tape itself is an indicator, and all technicians use indicators. Thanks for stopping by, the discussion is stimulating, and opposing views can only help.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
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