Broker Complaints …Get over it! | Page 7 | Forex Factory

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Broker Complaints …Get over it!

  • #121
  • Sep 25, 2006 7:25am Sep 25, 2006 7:25am
Quoting Invictus
I cannot help thinking that there is something inherently (downright fishy) wrong about painting Traders are idiots (You should have known better, you don't know how the markets works, pick another broker, etc.), and painting Brokers as people that "have to make a living, so they do what they do". Brokers are intitled to make a living? Have you people that make this idiotic statement gone nuts?
As I said in my previous comment, forex brokers behave the way equity brokers were like in the 1920's. Only the outrage that happened then finally forced the powers that were to regulate the industry.
Let us hope the same wisdom prevails here.
I know a number of successful retail forex traders. One of the common traits amongst them is that they no longer complain or blame their brokers for their performance.

I also know a number of traders who are, or were, struggling. One of the common traits among them were that the focused on external issues such as their broker's preformance and completely disregarded their own issues.

I'm sorry that sounds fishy or makes me an idiot. I just thought I would share my observations.
  • #122
  • Sep 25, 2006 7:35am Sep 25, 2006 7:35am
Quoting philmcgrew
I know a number of successful retail forex traders. One of the common traits amongst them is that they no longer complain or blame their brokers for their performance.
AMEN!! i can not think of one successful trader who partakes in broker bitching. i cant even think of one experienced trader who does either. broker bitching is strictly for newbies, so to you newbies out there, if you want to sound like a novice, keep on bitching about your broker. but if you want to be successful, do like successful traders do and PLAY THE GAME.

i know i have said this before, as have most of the other experienced traders on this board, so its really surprising to me that the bitching keeps on going, even in this very thread!
Relax and be happy.
  • #123
  • Sep 25, 2006 8:24am Sep 25, 2006 8:24am
Quoting merlin
AMEN!! i can not think of one successful trader who partakes in broker bitching. i cant even think of one experienced trader who does either. broker bitching is strictly for newbies, so to you newbies out there, if you want to sound like a novice, keep on bitching about your broker. but if you want to be successful, do like successful traders do and PLAY THE GAME.

i know i have said this before, as have most of the other experienced traders on this board, so its really surprising to me that the bitching keeps on going, even in this very thread!

I don't complain about my broker but the rep who takes care of my account is a really hot chick.

As for being surprised.....

I've found myself in a similar state of disbelief at times but I'm then reminded that this is simply the way of the 90%er. Just like in life, people focus on the wrong issues, won't take personal responsibility and then continue to struggle.
Secret Identity: Bill Sullivan
  • #124
  • Sep 25, 2006 9:03am Sep 25, 2006 9:03am
Quoting Fishtank
Banks send brokers a set of rules...Brokers give us a "modified" version of those rules to play with. I think Phil is saying "Play by the damn rules", and I think he is right.

The obvious example is spreads during news time. It is very common knowledge that spreads widen in times of volatility. Sure on the brokers home-page in giant flashing letters you can read "fixed spread". Nearly always 50 pages into the user agreement you will read "unable to garauntee spread in times of volatility".

This becomes a rule people...follow it. Crying/revenge trading/broker bashing/smashing your fist into your screen...doesn't change this rule.

Other rules are stopHunting,manual execution,no scalping,un-garaunteed fills,slippage....all rules, all here to stay.

It's very possible to play by the rules and make money so you should get on with it.

Not trying to be negative, or call out anyone in this post, just my point of view... just giving some support to a thread that is a breath of fresh air.
You better have a look at what you are saying here....the above rules that you quote are nothing but white colour crime, plain and simple. Banks send rules to brokers? Rather than making these grandiose statements, take the time to investigate how banks and the interbank market works...I do.

Yes, I have made complaints about brokers. But rather then just venting my anger on this site, I have contacted the CFTC. And guess what? They are agreeing with MY point of view, and have started files about the brokers I have complaint about. I have not closed my accounts with them, in order to keep up with what's happening.

In the meantime, I have returned to trading the interbank market, where there are no worries about plumbers with a crooked hand taking the other side of the trade.

And don't tell me that you can't trade interbank....Brokers that use Currenex, Lavafx etc. have good liquidity and are in effect interbank already. They might add a pip to it, so what. If that is too rich for you, try MBT or IB, ECN's that are close to being interbank. NONE of these brokers will screw you the way Dealing Desk Brokers do....they can't because the banks run the show. The CME and Reuters will be up and running next year for retail traders. Most of these Dealer Desk Brokers will have dissappeared by next year.

The advise you give above is nothing but un-adulterated rubbish, pure and simple. Have you ever wondered why there are so many "Forex Brokers" opening up literally every day? If dealing with crooks suits you, then continiue doing what you are doing. But don't give people that are looking for answers this nonsense about "these are the rules, put up with it". What garbagge. (I'm not even trying to be nice about it).

Dealer Desk Brokers love guys like you....you're the ones that keep them in business.
  • #125
  • Sep 25, 2006 9:35am Sep 25, 2006 9:35am
Quoting Invictus
Yes, I have made complaints about brokers. But rather then just venting my anger on this site, I have contacted the CFTC. And guess what? They are agreeing with MY point of view, and have started files about the brokers I have complaint about. I have not closed my accounts with them, in order to keep up with what's happening.

This one of the central points of the whole thread. If you have a legitimate complaint then go through the proper authorities to ensure that they do not continue to get away with their behavior.

In the meantime, I have returned to trading the interbank market, where there are no worries about plumbers with a crooked hand taking the other side of the trade.

Please explain how you trade the "interbank".

And don't tell me that you can't trade interbank....Brokers that use Currenex, Lavafx etc. have good liquidity and are in effect interbank already. They might add a pip to it, so what. If that is too rich for you, try MBT or IB, ECN's that are close to being interbank. NONE of these brokers will screw you the way Dealing Desk Brokers do....they can't because the banks run the show.

You can't trade interbank. Currenex is a gateway between your broker and their liquidity providers. True interbank trading is where you have a lot of money (a couple million) and you establish a relationship with a bank and then you use currenex as a platform to recive that bank's quotes and to execute trades. You can't just download currenex, see 100's of banks and start trading with them. All brokers have access to currenex or a similar platform, regardless if they have a dealing desk or not. For the vast majority of traders on this forum they do not have the capital to download currenex and establish a trading relationship with a major bank.

The CME and Reuters will be up and running next year for retail traders. Most of these Dealer Desk Brokers will have dissappeared by next year.

Time for you to do a little homework yourself. The CME/Reuters platform is for institutional clients only. I specifically discussed this with them. As institutions, your broker may choose to join this platform but that does not prevent them from widening the spread and continuing to do business as usual.
Phil
  • #126
  • Sep 25, 2006 9:44am Sep 25, 2006 9:44am
Lest I be accussed of being a 'Newbie", I have made complaints about the brokers precisely because I know how the market works, not because I am new to it.
I think that after 15 years of full time trading and numerous wins/failures in the market, I can have an opinion about it. Seems to me that there are a lot of part time traders making "educated" statements on this threat. Nothing wrong with part time traders, I was one of them once. But I wish they would not come across as such "knowing all " traders, when in reality they know little or next to nothing.
  • #127
  • Sep 25, 2006 9:56am Sep 25, 2006 9:56am
well, seeing how you jumped on twinchell about his baby smoking comment without taking a minute to understand the situation, i wouldnt be surprised if you are doing the same with you broker.

there are 3 Market Wizards books full of interviews with successful traders. can you find a reference to broker bitching in any of the three?
Relax and be happy.
  • #128
  • Sep 25, 2006 10:26am Sep 25, 2006 10:26am
Phil,
sorry my friend, you are wrong.
Currenex:
I can name you brokers that have upwards of 30 banks as liquidity providers..i.e. PFG, ADM, etc. Currenex is a matching system BETWEEN BANKS, NOT BROKERS, (That's why they charge commissions) available to anyone with a minimum of $25,000 or $50,000. It depends on the pool you are in. You're right, you can't download Currenex....it's web based. Do your homework. If 30 banks, ABM Amro, ING, Commerzebank etc. that are supplying liquidity in one pool are not enough for you then I don't know what could possibly satisfy you.
I have Currenex, so please don't tell me what it's all about.

Interbank:
Don't tell me I cannot trade interbank.
You may have an account with one Bank, but you do NOT trade with just one bank....it's called Reuters and Bloomberg and Telerate. The Bank you deal with only settles your trades, similar to a broker. At present, and for tax purposes, I do my interbank with european banks. In most cases, the quotes on Reuters are the same as a good Currenex pool, that's one of the reasons I will switch, as I do not need to allocate as many resources (Funds).

CME and Reuters:
The platform is for institutional traders (Called Sponsors, yap, better you do your homework) right now. These "Sponsors" are testing the platform and as more Institutions join and liquidity increases, it will be offered to brokers that will offer it to retail traders next year. IT IS A MATCHING SYSTEM similar to Currenex. The difference will be that the CME will clear all trades, therefore you will have safety of funds. I doubt if any broker will be able to add pips to the quote, as the quotes are coming from the CME. Brokers adding points to the quotes from the CME's electronic system right now would be charged with fraud, that's the reason for commissions.
  • #129
  • Sep 25, 2006 11:03am Sep 25, 2006 11:03am
Quoting merlin
well, seeing how you jumped on twinchell about his baby smoking comment without taking a minute to understand the situation, i wouldnt be surprised if you are doing the same with you broker.

there are 3 Market Wizards books full of interviews with successful traders. can you find a reference to broker bitching in any of the three?
Just to clarify:
NOT A SINGLE TRADER IN MARKETWIZARDS uses a broker in forex. They use the interbank market...If you are going to make a statement like that, make sure you know what you are talking about.
Furthermore, most of these guys have seats on the various exchanges, so there is no need for a broker.
Any more "educated" statements?
  • #130
  • Sep 25, 2006 11:07am Sep 25, 2006 11:07am
Quoting Invictus

Interbank:
Don't tell me I cannot trade interbank.
You may have an account with one Bank, but you do NOT trade with just one bank....it's called Reuters and Bloomberg and Telerate. The Bank you deal with only settles your trades, similar to a broker. At present, and for tax purposes, I do my interbank with european banks. In most cases, the quotes on Reuters are the same as a good Currenex pool, that's one of the reasons I will switch, as I do not need to allocate as many resources (Funds).
Why don't you tell us who your broker is and how you use Currenex and how we can all trade through the interbank like you. I think that would be beneficial to all of us to see how a real full time trader does business.
  • #131
  • Sep 25, 2006 12:01pm Sep 25, 2006 12:01pm
Invictus, i dont want to argue with you on this issue. maybe i went a little far with the baby smoking comment

lets stop this aurgument dead in its tracks. youve stated your position and phil and i have stated ours. thanks for your comments, it brings another view and that is always healthy.
Relax and be happy.
  • #132
  • Sep 25, 2006 12:09pm Sep 25, 2006 12:09pm
Quoting Invictus
Just to clarify:
NOT A SINGLE TRADER IN MARKETWIZARDS uses a broker in forex. They use the interbank market...If you are going to make a statement like that, make sure you know what you are talking about.
Furthermore, most of these guys have seats on the various exchanges, so there is no need for a broker.
Any more "educated" statements?
there is only one forex trader in all the books, bruce kovner, and he trades through various banks (banks ARE the interbank market) usually through his personal broker. when i refer to "broker" i am talking not just about forex brokers, but all brokers. i see the same kind of complaints from all markets so i lump it all together.
Relax and be happy.
  • #133
  • Sep 25, 2006 5:54pm Sep 25, 2006 5:54pm
meh Invictus,

Banks give brokers rules is a generalization...it's not a post about HOW the market works, it's a post about how traders should react and deal with it.

Everything you say has changed nothing about the fact that complaining about how the market operates TODAY, does a trader no good.

In my opinion of course.
  • #134
  • Sep 28, 2006 2:49pm Sep 28, 2006 2:49pm
PHIL: Have enjoyed your thread immensely, in spite of the intermittent acrimony. Question for you: any idea when you're going to write about:
"2. Fib numbers don't work
3. Pivots don't work
4. EMAs do not act as support."

----- Should be an interesting "rant"

Billyjim
  • #135
  • Sep 28, 2006 2:53pm Sep 28, 2006 2:53pm
Quoting billyjim
PHIL: Have enjoyed your thread immensely, in spite of the intermittent acrimony. Question for you: any idea when you're going to write about:
"2. Fib numbers don't work
3. Pivots don't work
4. EMAs do not act as support."

----- Should be an interesting "rant"

Billyjim
That's funny. I really do believe all of those statements to be true. I just have to be in a foul mood to start a good rant, not to mention be prepared for all the love I will get in return.
  • #136
  • Sep 28, 2006 3:04pm Sep 28, 2006 3:04pm
Quoting philmcgrew
That's funny. I really do believe all of those statements to be true. I just have to be in a foul mood to start a good rant, not to mention be prepared for all the love I will get in return.
I have to ask Phil. What do you think works??
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #137
  • Sep 28, 2006 3:08pm Sep 28, 2006 3:08pm
Quoting philmcgrew
That's funny. I really do believe all of those statements to be true. I just have to be in a foul mood to start a good rant, not to mention be prepared for all the love I will get in return.
Phil: if all it takes to get you going is to turbolate you into a foul mood, here it is: "You're a no-account; you are a broker in disguise; you are ignorant; you are uneducated; you probably are making some kind of money stirring up all these kind-hearted thread contributers, all of whom KNOW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, your innermost motives for writing what you do. In addition you are one of those smug Amarricans who lord it over the rest of the world. Get real, will you!!"

Billyjim
  • #138
  • Sep 28, 2006 3:10pm Sep 28, 2006 3:10pm
Quoting FXopportunist
I have to ask Phil. What do you think works??
Trading with the trend: buying dips in an uptrend and selling rallies in a downtrend.

If there is no trend the pick your ranges and only trade from extremes (overbought/oversold) as measured by any number of osciallators.

Candle formations used in conjunction with overbought and oversold conditions.

Regular and Hidden Divergence with more hidden divergence because it is a setup which allows one to trade with the trend.

Breakouts are amazing in the Forex market. No one talks about them but they perform better in Forex than any market I have ever traded.

Phil
  • #139
  • Sep 28, 2006 3:13pm Sep 28, 2006 3:13pm
Quoting billyjim
Phil: if all it takes to get you going is to turbolate you into a foul mood, here it is: "You're a no-account; you are a broker in disguise; you are ignorant; you are uneducated; you probably are making some kind of money stirring up all these kind-hearted thread contributers, all of whom KNOW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, your innermost motives for writing what you do. In addition you are one of those smug Amarricans who lord it over the rest of the world. Get real, will you!!"

Billyjim
Why you little #($*%( !!! That was hilarious. I'll write something on why I think fib numbers are total crap.
  • #140
  • Sep 28, 2006 3:18pm Sep 28, 2006 3:18pm
...... If you don't get that Fib article out post haste, in desperation I will overdose on something -- and YOU will feel guilty the rest of your life.

Billyjim
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