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The next step after reaching broker lot size limit

  • #21
  • Nov 22, 2017 5:01pm Nov 22, 2017 5:01pm
Quoting stoxos
{quote} To answer to your question you should or "must" go towards Prime Broker solutions. Like Currenex, BaxterFx, HotSpot, Lmax , maybe EBS or reuters fxall. Those ECNs have that deep liquidity you need. But they need a high amount of capital (something i think you already have if you have hit the limit).
I've had a look at some of those suggestions and I don't think I'm anywhere near as big as you need to be to use them.

They talk of you needing to be a regulated financial institution, insurance company, pension fund etc.

Some of them even mention nmeeding a balance sheet of €20m.
  • #22
  • Nov 22, 2017 5:13pm Nov 22, 2017 5:13pm
Quoting BigOldFella
{quote} I've had a look at some of those suggestions and I don't think I'm anywhere near as big as you need to be to use them. They talk of you needing to be a regulated financial institution, insurance company, pension fund etc. Some of them even mention nmeeding a balance sheet of €20m.
no, not this much, take a look at some. lmax, baxter .... are much less then 20 m.
  • #23
  • Nov 22, 2017 5:26pm Nov 22, 2017 5:26pm
Signals come in to an email address which is being monitored by the app.

Once a signal it received the program converts the signal into a small text file which then gets read by an EA and the EA places the trade.

Occasionally another email is sent to update the trade i.e. change the SL or TP or cancel if it's not been filled.

I think my OP might have confused some, I'm not trading 1000 lots. the question should have been worded "if I get to 1000 lots".

The problem I've got is that I size the trades very aggressively. Currently about 26.2% of my account balance per trade is risked. The lot size is based on account balance and success rate of the last 40 trades. It ranges from 25% up to just under 30%.

I have some big losses but over the 2 years I've been live I'm running at about a 65% success rate. I'll be honest, it's not the smoothest equity curve.

If I trade over 100 lots I lose the leverage I need to be able to size aggressively.

But as was mentioned earlier if I use one master account trading 50 lots and a slave (or eventually multiples) trading 50 lots then I get round that problem...I think???

Do the slave accounts have to be in different names? I will investigate.
  • #24
  • Nov 22, 2017 5:55pm Nov 22, 2017 5:55pm
Quoting BigOldFella
Signals come in to an email address which is being monitored by the app. Once a signal it received the program converts the signal into a small text file which then gets read by an EA and the EA places the trade. Occasionally another email is sent to update the trade i.e. change the SL or TP or cancel if it's not been filled. I think my OP might have confused some, I'm not trading 1000 lots. the question should have been worded "if I get to 1000 lots". The problem I've got is that I size the trades very aggressively. Currently about 26.2% of my...
very easy way to start with very little knowledge needed for programming:
use volume not trade:
you receive your entry level price!
then you set you entry area (specify some parameters with positive and negative slippage from entry price from mail - ok maybe postive slippage is useless to set because alway fine, sonly use negative slippage, so your area is small to one side and compelte other side) and set your amount you want to trade and your max amount per order.
then let your expert buy inside this area until your complete wanted amount is filled or the trade is closed by mail or TP.


easy way, never ever any problem with amounts.
  • #25
  • Nov 22, 2017 6:55pm Nov 22, 2017 6:55pm
You can deal directly with banks and trade their derivatives, in particular knock-outs which have different leverage, move 1:1 with the underlying and have no time decay.
Banks will fill multiple 10.000.000 units nearly instantly, either via OTC or through an exchange.
There won't be even a problem dealing with 100.000.000$ in cash.

I think that was the next step you were talking about. LOL
  • #26
  • Nov 22, 2017 10:18pm Nov 22, 2017 10:18pm
Quoting BigOldFella
{quote} No, I don't know what a PB is but I have £1.4m in my account.
No, you don't.
  • #27
  • Nov 23, 2017 1:14am Nov 23, 2017 1:14am
Quoting Whikka
{quote} No, you don't.
LOL.
  • #28
  • Edited 3:29am Nov 23, 2017 3:01am | Edited 3:29am
Quoting BigOldFella
{quote} ... is but I have £1.4m in my account.
If you really have this much in your account and want to trade more size, just get a proper broker. When you write >1000 lot, do you mean mini or full size, becasue full size = $100m position size (medium large for a regular bank trader); mini would be $10m (very small) ?

Do you really need to use MT4 : a big limitation, which if you are a programmer should be easy to overcome ?

I'd suggest Interactive Brokers or Barclays. If you need an MT4 bridge, then possibily Dukascopy, using their facility to keep most of your cash at Barclays (if that is still in place). Lastly, Saxo Bank, but only via their Zurich office (Swiss bank protection). All the above will give very good terms for a 1m account (despite what the websites say, these are usually negotiable, although possibly less so with Barclays).

Please write something specific about your method(s).

Edit : essentially, if you're going to place 1m in a brokerage account, you need to see their balance sheet first. Their "Awards" are worth nothing. IB may not offer high leverage, but their balance sheet is far bigger & more solid than most "FX" dealers; only the prime broker banks are (much) larger.
  • #29
  • Nov 23, 2017 3:20am Nov 23, 2017 3:20am
I think the best way after the info you gave us is lmax fully regulated trustworthy and also 10000 Margin which is low. I think you get also API. And since you are coder it would be easy or you trade through their API and leave behind MT4-5.
  • #30
  • Nov 23, 2017 3:49am Nov 23, 2017 3:49am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} you speak about selling own trade signals to others and work as signal service? correct?
Sorry no, I pay for a signal service. They claim 78% success rate but, for me, it is more like 65%.

But when SL=TP then 65% is enough to make profits.
  • #31
  • Nov 23, 2017 3:50am Nov 23, 2017 3:50am
Quoting stoxos
I think the best way after the info you gave us is lmax fully regulated trustworthy and also 10000 Margin which is low. I think you get also API. And since you are coder it would be easy or you trade through their API and leave behind MT4-5.
Yes, LMAX looks good and, as you say they have an API which I can access with C# and .Net which is perfect for me. Thanks.
  • #32
  • Nov 23, 2017 4:02am Nov 23, 2017 4:02am
Quoting JaqenHgar
{quote} If you really have this much in your account and want to trade more size, just get a proper broker. When you write >1000 lot, do you mean mini or full size, becasue full size = $100m position size (medium large for a regular bank trader); mini would be $10m (very small) ? Do you really need to use MT4 : a big limitation, which if you are a programmer should be easy to overcome ? I'd suggest Interactive Brokers or Barclays. If you need an MT4 bridge, then possibily Dukascopy, using their facility to keep most of your cash at Barclays (if...
I don't know what I mean, surely it can't be $100m.

Yesterday I sold 100 lots of USDCAD and after commission the profit was just under £22k. Does that make it mini or full size?

It doesn't look like MT4 is required as a lot of the companies mentioned seem to have APIs.

I'm not sure what you mean about being specific about my methods. The beauty of using a signal service is that I don't need to know the underlying reasons for the trade. It would be nice to understand but it's not required. I know a lot of the trades have the same price, TP and SL. So for example since the start of November there have been 4 trades with the same price, SL and TP (although the TP and SL can be reversed depending if a buy or sell). 3 wins, one loss.
  • #33
  • Edited 5:30am Nov 23, 2017 4:10am | Edited 5:30am
I've just spoken to IC Markets and they say the leverage doesn't change depending on lot size.. So you can trade 0.1 up to 1000 lots and the leverage is still 1:500.

So the error I get when I try to trade 101 lots must be due to something else. The bloke didn't seem to know much about placing trades via and EA so he's going to put me in touch with someone else.
  • #34
  • Nov 23, 2017 6:12am Nov 23, 2017 6:12am
Quoting BigOldFella
{quote} Sorry no, I pay for a signal service. They claim 78% success rate but, for me, it is more like 65%. But when SL=TP then 65% is enough to make profits.
sorry to say that, but with this information the chance that you have 1 million left on your account in one year is much smaller then you have 100k on the end in 1 year. why do you think they use signal service, not because they won so much.

i dont think you have to think about volume problem, you have to think about learning basics to judge the signals very good, thats the most risky part.

but its your risk and so your problem. if i would use signal service, i would think about the biggest problem, how to get back 1 million lost in 1 year.
  • #35
  • Nov 23, 2017 6:14am Nov 23, 2017 6:14am
Quoting BigOldFella
I've just spoken to IC Markets and they say the leverage doesn't change depending on lot size.. So you can trade 0.1 up to 1000 lots and the leverage is still 1:500. So the error I get when I try to trade 101 lots must be due to something else. The bloke didn't seem to know much about placing trades via and EA so he's going to put me in touch with someone else.
are you really a programmer? or do you use the programm from others for this? you can see the error code by trying to place the trade, and by this you see what to change and what happened.
  • #36
  • Nov 23, 2017 6:35am Nov 23, 2017 6:35am
Quoting BigOldFella
{quote} I don't know what I mean, surely it can't be $100m. Yesterday I sold 100 lots of USDCAD and after commission the profit was just under £22k. Does that make it mini or full size?
Minilot is $10k / $1 pip (USD pairs), so 1,000 x $10k = $10,000,000 = $10m / $1,000 pip;

Full size lot = $100k / $10 pip (USD pairs), so 1,000 x $100k = $100m / $10,000 pip.

Quoting BigOldFella
Yesterday I sold 100 lots of USDCAD and after commission the profit was just under £22k. Does that make it mini or full size?
How many pips did the trade make, if you made £22k & sold 100 full size lots, then you made about 35 pips ? (Somebody else might want to check that calculation !). In other words you went short $10 million Loonies (but from what else you've written, I'm thinking you didn't know that and maybe were all the better off for it... !!!)...

Quoting BigOldFella
I'm not sure what you mean about being specific about my methods. The beauty of using a signal service is that I don't need to know the underlying reasons for the trade.
Which signal service are you using, please ?
  • #37
  • Nov 23, 2017 7:02am Nov 23, 2017 7:02am
Quoting BigOldFella
After successfully turning a small sum of money into a substantial amount I've hit the lot size limit for IC Markets. To keep on increasing my equity I need to be able to trade >1000 lots. Where do I go from here?
Wow, Just when you think that you have heard it all...
  • #38
  • Nov 23, 2017 7:29am Nov 23, 2017 7:29am
Quoting JaqenHgar
{quote} How many pips did the trade make, if you made £22k & sold 100 full size lots, then you made about 35 pips ? (Somebody else might want to check that calculation !).
Yes, 37.5 pips.

Quoting JaqenHgar
{quote} In other words you went short $10 million Loonies (but from what else you've written, I'm thinking you didn't know that and maybe were all the better off for it... !!!)... {quote} Which signal service are you using, please ?
My original experience of forex was spread betting where the "lot size" is simply the £/pip you win/lose if you bet £100/pip and it moves 37.5 pips then you win £3750. The calculation to work out the lot size is a lot more complicated in trading than it is in spread betting.

Quoting JaqenHgar
{quote} Which signal service are you using, please ?
Sorry, I can't say.

I continue to spread bet with two other signal providers - Sharktips and Faraday Research. Both are very good and offer similar returns (60%+).
  • #39
  • Nov 23, 2017 7:53am Nov 23, 2017 7:53am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} are you really a programmer? or do you use the programm from others for this? you can see the error code by trying to place the trade, and by this you see what to change and what happened.
I'm the programmer, been a programmer since 1982.

As soon as I go over 100 lots the error is 134 Not enough money. I'd been told by someone on another website forum (or may have been this one - can't remember) that the leverage was tiered. So I was assuming that over 100 lots my leverage had been reduced.

Someone with a bigger brain than mine will be able to work out what the leverage would have to be to generate "insufficient funds" when placing a 100 lot trade. Would it be as low as 1:10?
  • #40
  • Nov 23, 2017 8:01am Nov 23, 2017 8:01am
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} sorry to say that, but with this information the chance that you have 1 million left on your account in one year is much smaller then you have 100k on the end in 1 year. why do you think they use signal service, not because they won so much. i dont think you have to think about volume problem, you have to think about learning basics to judge the signals very good, thats the most risky part. but its your risk and so your problem. if i would use signal service, i would think about the biggest problem, how to get back 1 million lost in 1 year....
Yes, I know what you mean.

The original account was funded with £12k and once I got to £24k I withdrew the original £12k so everything in the account now is pure profit so it it went back down to zero I wouldn't be too bothered. I wouldn't be happy but it wouldn't be the end of the world. I've made other withdrawls too.

Up until using the signal service I had tried for many years to make a profit but had no success. Best I could do would be to break even for a while but then I would start to lose.
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