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How to properly use indicators

  • #121
  • Nov 15, 2017 2:15am Nov 15, 2017 2:15am
Quoting kprsa
{quote} So I try to share a few things that resonated with me, so whoever picks it up is fine.
Please share more. You are far better person than me. Some readers will start seeing things in your examples.

Not happy they just want the woman naked lying on the bed. Having her oven hot to 180 C. Just ready to bake their cookies... anytime they like. I think a guy has to deserve his/her success by working hard to achieve it... I am helping noone who just want to know how to make 500% per month/year, whatever, without putting his ass in front of the monitor for 16 hrs a day in the comming 2-3 years.
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #122
  • Nov 15, 2017 3:07am Nov 15, 2017 3:07am
Where to buy where to sell ?

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Bottomless wonders spring from simple rules, which are repeated without end
  • #123
  • Nov 15, 2017 3:14am Nov 15, 2017 3:14am
Where to buy where to sell?

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Bottomless wonders spring from simple rules, which are repeated without end
  • #124
  • Nov 15, 2017 3:26am Nov 15, 2017 3:26am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} That is totally correct. Dunno how Doncian channel or BB work, but there is a simple channel Mr. KPRSA had already shown and if you examine it?!? {quote} Yep. {quote} Stupid idea. Will all end up in tears. You have to modify it. The start was great, but this? Hmmmm. You can do better I am sure! Play around with the options. Take a close look at the OCHL prices within the channel? Counter trend trading is cool when it was just a try and then corrected. You will never ever make money in a long run trading against the trend. Period....
Gracias MoneyZilla !! You do not know how Donchian channel and BB works ... is it True ?? I do not know either ... Any way i will try all of them in my free time ... You are right about the trend, as it is said : trend is your friend ! never trade against the trend, except we really know what we are doing (ex. pullback on big TF can be defined as a trend on small TF). And daily Range is also as a concern, before we decide to jump into the market. I think i got the idea you said : where we can place our buy trades inside the channel ..., Thank you for reminding me !
I am failed,but i found 1,000 ways that won't work ...
  • #125
  • Nov 15, 2017 3:38am Nov 15, 2017 3:38am
Quoting despacito7
{quote} Gracias MoneyZilla !! You do not know how Donchian channel and BB works ... is it True ??
No I do not know how they work. But I know how the channel shown by Mr KPRSA works. Therefore I suppose the difference should not be that big, even if I know nothing about these channels.

Quote
And daily Range is also as a concern, before we decide to jump into the market.
It is the TF you choose to trade, as well. It is a little bit more complicated than it sounds, but you can make it. Just start researching. Make channels. Change settings. Look back. Observe. Repeat it many times. You will get there.

Quote
where we can place our buy trades inside the channel
That will become obvious once you start playing with the channels. Keep in mind, the average price is very important. Something the example of Mr KPRSA does not show, but this is more like stage 2 thing...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #126
  • Nov 15, 2017 4:02am Nov 15, 2017 4:02am
Quoting limprobable
Where to buy where to sell ? {image}
What I’d do:
First note that this chart, like any chart conforms to overall “price movement rules”.
Second, I’d consider toning the chart down, for example just using single-colored single-tf bars, or the moving averages as before. I found it useful psychologically, flashy green and red candlestick are there for a reason.
Buy: any place in up channel that originated from a price slingshot (elevated spread, close near top) pointing up, exit at formation of analogous formation in the opposite direction. Sl: below the recent bottom. With a bit of looking at charts it is possible to catch lower tf pullbacks, i.e. bar that made a new high, and then pulled back with not too big spread. Practice makes one better.
Sell: vice versa.
Note that I do not want to sidetrack this thread into outline of my scalping strategy, nor I have the desire to open a new thread etc. This was just an idea that was offered, already off topic since it does not use any indicators apart from the price itself.
Cheers,
k
  • #127
  • Nov 15, 2017 4:06am Nov 15, 2017 4:06am
Quoting limprobable
Where to buy where to sell ? {image}
This channel is pretty good. Like you just nail it.

That is pretty much obvious, when you look at the channel...

Come on mate, it is right there in front of your eyes! If you cant see it now, keep on looking, until you find it.

If you cannot find it, maybe trading the markets is something you should not do, unless you are some kind of a special talent?
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #128
  • Nov 15, 2017 4:15am Nov 15, 2017 4:15am
"How to properly use indicators"

Easy - don't use them.
  • #129
  • Nov 15, 2017 4:31am Nov 15, 2017 4:31am
Quoting GDR3k
"How to properly use indicators" Easy - don't use them.
I still remain dependent on the indicators to make my trades, but my use is as simple as possible.

I've tried countless times without indicators only with PA but I can not find a pattern that I can monetize.
I know it is possible but my intelligence or insight to discover these patterns is small.
Well at least I know my limitations and therefore I always return to my moving average and stochastic
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POW!
  • #130
  • Nov 15, 2017 5:01am Nov 15, 2017 5:01am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote}Yes. It never hurts to go with the flow. Where your trend trade is placed is not really so important. But if you want to get the best seats, take a look in the channel where you can place your buy trades?
A while ago I had a similar idea: Trade in the direction of a repainting indicator ...
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  • #131
  • Nov 15, 2017 5:07am Nov 15, 2017 5:07am
Quoting GDR3k
"How to properly use indicators" Easy - don't use them.
Prize is an indicator, too. Isn't it?!
  • #132
  • Nov 15, 2017 5:17am Nov 15, 2017 5:17am
Quoting AntiCre
{quote} A while ago I had a similar idea: Trade in the direction of a repainting indicator ... {image}
Even that should work imho. The problem here I guess is that there will be a lot of fake signals, particularly when market enters congestion.
I’d suggest a trick (I haven’t tested it, but at least it makes sense): apply the same repainting indicator (perhaps with different parameters) to your equity curve. When the down signal on the equity curve appears, the market has entered congestion and you may want to decrease risk of your trades. Vice versa when you get an up signal on equity curve. You can do a similar thing for trend/countertrend.
Cheers,
k
  • #133
  • Nov 15, 2017 6:18am Nov 15, 2017 6:18am
Quoting kprsa
{quote} Even that should work imho. The problem here I guess is that there will be a lot of fake signals, particularly when market enters congestion. I’d suggest a trick (I haven’t tested it, but at least it makes sense): apply the same repainting indicator (perhaps with different parameters) to your equity curve. When the down signal on the equity curve appears, the market has entered congestion and you may want to decrease risk of your trades. Vice versa when you...
A nice hack. Thanks for the idea!
  • #134
  • Nov 15, 2017 10:19am Nov 15, 2017 10:19am
Quoting AntiCre
{quote} A while ago I had a similar idea: Trade in the direction of a repainting indicator ... {image}
During my pre-MT4 years, I could never understand what a repainting indicator is. Could you please define? Any indicator based on a variable will always paint or change whatever it is measuring right?
Staying in my lane...
  • #135
  • Nov 15, 2017 10:24am Nov 15, 2017 10:24am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} During my pre-MT4 years, I could never understand what a repainting indicator is. Could you please define? Any indicator based on a variable will always paint or change whatever it is measuring right?
In my opinion it is an indicator which removes signals after the closing of the bar where the signal occurs. Thus, the Stochastic is not repainting since once a bar is closed the indicator readings won't change. For instance, put the CycleIdentifier or the ZigZag or ZZ Semafor on a M1 chart with the standard settings and observe it for a hour. It's horribly repainting.
  • #136
  • Nov 15, 2017 11:19pm Nov 15, 2017 11:19pm
Technical Indicators are tools. But without a good understanding of what exactly your “tool” does, you won’t know when or how to use it. Instead, a savy trader knows exactly when and how to use his tools, and when to avoid them completely.
  • #137
  • Nov 16, 2017 12:57am Nov 16, 2017 12:57am
Quoting Butterscotch
Technical Indicators are tools. But without a good understanding of what exactly your “tool” does, you won’t know when or how to use it. Instead, a savy trader knows exactly when and how to use his tools, and when to avoid them completely.
Thanks. Maybe you may shed some light on some tools. I already gave my interpretation on how the stochastics may be used; but (despite 1 or 2 exceptions) I haven't obtained some confirmation or how others would use it or other indicators.
  • #138
  • Nov 16, 2017 2:11am Nov 16, 2017 2:11am
Quoting AntiCre
{quote} In my opinion it is an indicator which removes signals after the closing of the bar where the signal occurs. Thus, the Stochastic is not repainting since once a bar is closed the indicator readings won't change. For instance, put the CycleIdentifier or the ZigZag or ZZ Semafor on a M1 chart with the standard settings and observe it for a hour. It's horribly repainting.
Thanks AntiCre. So based on the core philosophy of "waiting for bar to close" i.e. turning the calculation into a constant for the time duration, would we then not make this a basic property for all OHLC based indicators and declare marshal law on all those who violate this fundamental rule? The calculation variance when new tick/data arrives could be so small for traders to visually catch whether the indicator repaints or not... especially for sub-window based indicators.
Staying in my lane...
  • #139
  • Nov 16, 2017 5:01am Nov 16, 2017 5:01am
Quoting AntiCre
{quote} Thanks. Maybe you may shed some light on some tools. I already gave my interpretation on how the stochastics may be used; but (despite 1 or 2 exceptions) I haven't obtained some confirmation or how others would use it or other indicators.
Hi AntiCre,
Normally we use oscilator to catch entry point by looking at its overbought/oversold state. But some times price will not go directly to other direction, instead .. it will go back to its previous state. i.e. stochastic is defined as a non repainting indicator (it will not change its value after the candle closed), but if we look at it clearly, some times after reaching 100 level (overbought state) it will not go direct to 0 level. In some cases, before it reach 0 level (even before reaching the 50 level), it will go back to 100 level. This can be caused by appearance of a new high of candle, and this make the stochastic looks like a repaint indicator (similar to ZZ indicator). I just think that this can be filtered by using another indicator like MA, because it is the Simple one and commonly used. We know that MA is a lagging indicator, and some trader will not use it for trading by just looking at its crossing (using some MA lines) especially at Big moving market condition. So, may be a Channel on price can be as a help here, we can use 2 or 3 lines of MAs, and at a glance this Channel will look like Envelope ?? Can we use this as a filter to our oscillator to get a better signal ? Any idea to build this MA channel is welcome. Gracias !
I am failed,but i found 1,000 ways that won't work ...
  • #140
  • Nov 16, 2017 5:55am Nov 16, 2017 5:55am
Quoting despacito7
{quote} So, may be a Channel on price can be as a help here, we can use 2 or 3 lines of MAs, and at a glance this Channel will look like Envelope ?? Can we use this as a filter to our oscillator to get a better signal ? Any idea to build this MA channel is welcome. Gracias !
Here is an expert on envelopes. I found it useful to read whatever he wishes to share.
Cheers,
k
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