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  • #61
  • Sep 22, 2017 5:47am Sep 22, 2017 5:47am
Well, whatever you're trading spot, futures, options, etf, cfd... on 60s, 5m, 1h, 1d ; what makes you a trader is that you buy and sell (financials) products.
Gambling is relationed with "game", not financial products.

GuyBaker, I saw you're trading with binary.com, what is the size of your positions? (That question because they have limited me to a ridiculous $3000 daily turnover, without reason, after I was trading $2000 positions.
  • #62
  • Sep 22, 2017 5:54am Sep 22, 2017 5:54am
Quoting faryne
Well, whatever you're trading spot, futures, options, etf, cfd... on 60s, 5m, 1h, 1d ; what makes you a trader is that you buy and sell (financials) products. Gambling is relationed with "game", not financial products. GuyBaker, I saw you're trading with binary.com, what is the size of your positions? (That question because they have limited me to a ridiculous $3000 daily turnover, without reason, after I was trading $2000 positions.
£2150 per contract. Maybe it is a regulatory issue?

That is just not the definition of the word Gamble; posted this elsewhere but for ease here is the definition of the word from dictionay.com :-

gamble
ˈɡamb(ə)l/
verb

  1. 1.
    play games of chance for money; bet.
    "he gambles on football"
    synonyms:bet, wager, place a bet, lay a bet, stake money on something, back the horses, try one's luck on the horses; More

  2. 2.
    take risky action in the hope of a desired result.
    "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
    synonyms:take a chance, take a risk, take a leap in the dark, leave things to chance, speculate, venture, buy a pig in a poke; More

noun

  1. 1.
    an act of gambling.
    "Dad likes a bit of a gamble"
    synonyms:bet, wager, speculation; More
  2. 2.
    a risky action undertaken with the hope of success.
    "we decided to take a gamble and offer him a place on our staff"
    synonyms:risk, chance, hazard, speculation, venture, random shot, leap in the dark;

It is not to do with games per se, it is to do with taking risks, calculated or otherwise.

I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #63
  • Sep 22, 2017 5:57am Sep 22, 2017 5:57am
Quoting redoktober
{quote} No, it's not semantic only , it's just the trader's " forma mentis" that is deeply different from that of a gambler. You try to think of a gambler into a Casino and then think of a Goldman's pro-trader : do they have the same mentality ? Do they behave the same way ? Do they risk in the same way ?
i would like to side with GuyBaker on this one.
the name we attach to it isnt matter.

RedOk, think a trader as instead a casino gambler... rather someone like a pro poker player as trader. ( and not the weekend Vegas crowd)

it is all about the odds, an educated gamble if you wish.
does a pro poker player lose? sure. can even lose to a newbie on the occasion, but the long run chances are he comes out ahead, managing smartly his bet and bankroll
does a pro trader lose? sure. can lose to a newbie on the occasion, but the long run chances are he comes out ahead, thank to complience department managing his bets and bankroll
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #64
  • Sep 22, 2017 6:06am Sep 22, 2017 6:06am
Quoting GuyBaker
It is not to do with games per se, it is to do with taking risks, calculated or otherwise.
What I see:
gamble (v.) (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gamble&allowed_in_frame=0) :"risk something of value on a game of chance ; variant of gamenen "to play, jest, be merry" [1726].
So it is definively linked.

Quoting GuyBaker
£2150 per contract. Maybe it is a regulatory issue?
They don't want to tell me why they put the restriction. So it's obviously a "scamming" way to block me from trading.
  • #65
  • Sep 22, 2017 6:13am Sep 22, 2017 6:13am
Quoting faryne
{quote} What I see: gamble (v.) (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gamble&allowed_in_frame=0) :"risk something of value on a game of chance ; variant of gamenen "to play, jest, be merry" [1726]. So it is definively linked. {quote} They don't want to tell me why they put the restriction. So it's obviously a "scamming" way to block me from trading.

definition 2.

 

  1. 2.
    take risky action in the hope of a desired result.
    "he was gambling on the success of his satellite TV channel"
    synonyms:take a chance, take a risk, take a leap in the dark, leave things to chance, speculate, venture, buy a pig in a poke; More

Look at the synonyms, speculate,venture.

as I said above to gamble does not mean to risk without and advantage, but anyway it doesn't matter what you call it, it's about who has the edge, professional traders trade with an edge so do professional gamblers.

You might take a look at nadex.com if your strat can work with their contracts it might be a better place for you to trade.

I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #66
  • Sep 22, 2017 6:27am Sep 22, 2017 6:27am
That doesn't matter in the end. I was just thinking move out of trader to gambler because 60s is absurd. Price evolution depends more on volatility than time (BS if you see me ).

I'm already trading with Sprint from IG and a bunch of other brokers. It's too bad from Binary.com because they are the lonewolf with their api.
  • #67
  • Sep 22, 2017 6:34am Sep 22, 2017 6:34am
Quoting faryne
That doesn't matter in the end. I was just thinking move out of trader to gambler because 60s is absurd. Price evolution depends more on volatility than time (BS if you see me ). I'm already trading with Sprint from IG and a bunch of other brokers. It's too bad from Binary.com because they are the lonewolf with their api.

Yeah I use Sprint. Who else do you use? I need API for my system
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #68
  • Sep 22, 2017 7:56am Sep 22, 2017 7:56am
Quoting GuyBaker
{quote} Yeah I use Sprint. Who else do you use? I need API for my system
Are you using binary.com API ? for how long have you been using it? are you aware of any glitches or tricks?
  • #69
  • Sep 22, 2017 7:58am Sep 22, 2017 7:58am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} i would like to side with GuyBaker on this one. the name we attach to it isnt matter. RedOk, think a trader as instead a casino gambler... rather someone like a pro poker player as trader. ( and not the weekend Vegas crowd) it is all about the odds, an educated gamble if you wish. does a pro poker player lose? sure. can even lose to a newbie on the occasion, but the long run chances are he comes out ahead, managing smartly his bet and bankroll does a pro trader lose? sure. can lose to a newbie on the occasion, but the long run chances are...
Oh my God , the legendary trader PF is becoming a gambler , lol ! The World is turning backwards...
  • #70
  • Sep 22, 2017 8:26am Sep 22, 2017 8:26am
Quoting tradista
{quote} Are you using binary.com API ? for how long have you been using it? are you aware of any glitches or tricks?
Yes over a year. It is pretty stable actually. I have a guy in Italy who did the integration for me, if you private message me, I can hook you up
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #71
  • Sep 22, 2017 9:17am Sep 22, 2017 9:17am
Quoting redoktober
{quote} Oh my God , the legendary trader PF is becoming a gambler , lol ! The World is turning backwards...
hehe, legendary? come on!

RedOk,
end of the day a trade is always an educated guess, or gamble if you wish.
the difference is between how you execute it...
just randomly buy sell as a noob, or have a plan for different scenarios, and you manage your bankroll accordingly.

what wont change is the fact you dont know the direction for sure.
you know your bet size/trade size, and you know the payout ratio/ your win at the good outcome, or your max loss, your bet/ or SL at the bad outcome.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #72
  • Sep 22, 2017 9:39am Sep 22, 2017 9:39am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} It's probably because you are milking money and they are forced to trade the other side of your trade in binary options. Do binary options have a liquidity provider that they can offset/hedge your position? Sorry, noob here when it comes to BO. I dont know much about these brokers either. At the end of the day, based on whatever limited material I have read thus far, IF you believe you can predict price direction or generate a strong directional bias, you can 'trade' binary options. If not, this is no different than flipping a coin (i.e....

Agree most traders will not be able to trade these successfully, my system has 12 charts open all the time and it only finds an average if 5 trades per day, I doubt the average manual trader could do that with the accuracy that is require to carve a profit.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #73
  • Edited 10:02am Sep 22, 2017 9:48am | Edited 10:02am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Just saying Guy... such information is important for your readers to understand how you trade. Which 12 charts and on what timeframes, which indicators etc. There is no need to share the specifics but you can most certainly share your 'approach' without sharing details of the edge to have a two way intelligent and meaningful conversation. This thead is under "Trading Discussion" so without it, there won't be much participation. just my 2 cents bro.

Sorry I just do not feel comfortable disclosing further detail about the exact methodology than I have, there is a limit to my altruism Just know it is possible.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #74
  • Sep 22, 2017 10:43am Sep 22, 2017 10:43am
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Sigh.... how is "I monitor charts of EU, GU, Gold, on M30, M15, M5 and M1 timeframes, look for News and use bollinger bands and RSI in my analysis to pick a direction to trade EU contract" sharing details on the "exact methodology" ?

This is my cash cow, there is limit to how far I will go in risking it being copied and maybe killing it.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #75
  • Sep 22, 2017 11:39am Sep 22, 2017 11:39am
Quoting GuyBaker
{quote} Yes over a year. It is pretty stable actually. I have a guy in Italy who did the integration for me, if you private message me, I can hook you up
thanks Guy, I'm already working on it, I just wanted to assess how trustworthy it can be.
  • #76
  • Sep 22, 2017 12:10pm Sep 22, 2017 12:10pm
Quoting tradista
{quote} thanks Guy, I'm already working on it, I just wanted to assess how trustworthy it can be.

You need to cope with it dropping the connection sometimes, and they have been known to change the interface without notice, but generally it is reliable
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #77
  • Sep 22, 2017 12:43pm Sep 22, 2017 12:43pm
Quoting GuyBaker
{quote} This is my cash cow, there is limit to how far I will go in risking it being copied and maybe killing it.
okay.. fair enough. Let's try a different approach. Looks like Tradista is also trading BO so maybe we can have some meaningful discussion.

Let's say I have a "Hypothetical System" in Spot FX which generates about 50-80 signals per month on M30 tiemframe. Trades are generated at candle open and closed at candle close with SL set to the range of previous candle + spread. These signals if measured for success at candle close, provides a winrate of 75-80% on average. This works well but messes up with risk:reward ratio so not ideal to limit drawdowns.

If I ask you, how would you guys approach eliminating Stoploss and replace (hedge it with Binary Option with 30 minute expiration ?
Staying in my lane...
  • #78
  • Edited 1:46pm Sep 22, 2017 1:17pm | Edited 1:46pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} okay.. fair enough. Let's try a different approach. Looks like Tradista is also trading BO so maybe we can have some meaningful discussion. Let's say I have a "Hypothetical System" in Spot FX which generates about 50-80 signals per month on M30 tiemframe. Trades are generated at candle open and closed at candle close with SL set to the range of previous candle + spread. These signals if measured for success at candle close, provides a winrate of 75-80% on average. This works well but messes up with risk:reward ratio so not ideal to limit...


Interesting thought..

You could use a higher/lower option that paid if the candle closed against you, you would need to work out the average amount moved against you combined with the loss rate to set the value of the option, this would replace a stop that has to be distant enough for the worst case with a stop of an average value which only triggers at the close of the candle. You would of course have a losing option when you win, so that would need to be factored in also, and you still have a problem with black swan events... Would need to do the math I guess, but my gut feeling is it wont work
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #79
  • Sep 22, 2017 1:57pm Sep 22, 2017 1:57pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Thanks Guy. Objective is to limit drawdown and replace it with paying a "fixed risk premium" per timeframe basket for each currency. Either by timeframe or across the entire portfolio. I will always pay more for this type of "protection" but that's okay as long as downsize risk is FIXED and as long as I am not forced to close my long running portfolio of positions thru weekends. Upside potential will continue to come from my spot fx trades. To me, This is true "hedging" instead of the per pair 'nedging' that folks use in spot fx. EDIT -...

Because your spot position will still be in the red and if that redness is a lot bigger than the average it will kill you.

Another way might be a one touch option, this would give a non slip stop.

But why use spot at all? if you had this system, with 80% win/loss just put it all on a high low option.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #80
  • Sep 22, 2017 2:18pm Sep 22, 2017 2:18pm
Quoting VEEFX
{quote} Good point and I just found this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjzjIOMKYMQ)via google... certainly something to look into. I have spent last 2 years programming my automation so definitely, that's the path I want to continue... handsfree operation ! sorry/ i forgot to mention... winrate varies and is based on all EUR pairs, all GBP pairs, all USD pairs, all JPY pairs etc. it's not for individual pairs. As I said before... I position myself to depict the upcoming (or resuming) currency strength... it's like basket buying dips...
Unless I am misunderstanding, which is eminently possible, don't use spot at all and set high low options for each entry with the value set by the win/loss rate of the given pair, the option contract protects you from all extreme events and you will be dealing with known values always as I am with Orac.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
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