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vsa with Malcolm

  • #30,781
  • Sep 19, 2017 5:33am Sep 19, 2017 5:33am
This is my hunt result for today.

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we have the setup so we start the hunt.

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After some tests, and AR formation we got an entry so that's kinda of what I am looking to trade today, again that little grey area above price is where the sellers need to show them selfs if no volume comes is this is long trade... loking for 50 pips to collect and move to BE or unless I see weakness coming in the market I may consider partial close and BE sooner. but yet it's expected that this area will attract some selling we will see.
  • #30,782
  • Sep 19, 2017 6:01am Sep 19, 2017 6:01am
Quoting zwara
This is my hunt result for today. {image} we have the setup so we start the hunt. {image} After some tests, and AR formation we got an entry so that's kinda of what I am looking to trade today, again that little grey area above price is where the sellers need to show them selfs if no volume comes is this is long trade... loking for 50 pips to collect and move to BE or unless I see weakness coming in the market I may consider partial close and BE sooner. but yet it's expected that this area will attract some selling we will see.

I see something very similar there and actually gold is also pretty much the same setup. I wouldnt be suprised if the price dropped down to where your SL is, seems like a logical place to stophunt
  • #30,783
  • Sep 19, 2017 6:01am Sep 19, 2017 6:01am
Quoting Vcv13
{quote} so Wyckoff didn't use OHLC bar charts? is it true that terms like upthrust & springs were also coined by Robert Evans?
For the daily charts, he draw candles like this.

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For intraday reading the tape like this.

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I don't know about the history of the terms, but Wyckoff only talkes about only a couple of them, most of them were added later probably. He mentions upthrusts, but not springs. He calls them shakeouts every time (even minor ones), and their appearance is not so fixed. It only means a breakdown of support and the price's inability to hold there and rallying back quickly, and not time based.

This is a big difference, that Wyckoff is not time based, VSA is, because a candle gets a meaning depending on its close. In Wyckoff 1 candle means nothing, it is about buying and selling waves alternating each other, their momentum, volume and length compared to each other.

Other big difference is, that a high volume upmove is not always a sign of weakness, it can be a sign of strength. High volume on upmoves can show SM buying, not invariably selling. Same for a heavy volume downmoves. If you put in a buy at market price for 50000 lots on EU, your order will push the price up. Heavy volume upmove, you are still buying.

This is why I'm saying, trying to mix the two will lead to confusion on some occasions. Better to stick to one, if you do VSA, then read everything with VSA rules.
Price and volume reveals everything. The market moves on supply and demand.
  • #30,784
  • Sep 19, 2017 6:11am Sep 19, 2017 6:11am
Quoting Jesusknows
{quote} I see something very similar there and actually gold is also pretty much the same setup. I wouldnt be suprised if the price dropped down to where your SL is, seems like a logical place to stophunt

yup we will see there's always that possibility but again to move it lower they need to show they will move it proper volume . we never know
  • #30,785
  • Sep 19, 2017 7:17am Sep 19, 2017 7:17am
Quoting Darastonius
{quote} This is a big difference, that Wyckoff is not time based, VSA is, because a candle gets a meaning depending on its close.

But friend, I do remember reading about Wyckoff in his original 1931 course using the HLC bar chart (you call candles) of Newyork times average of 50 stocks to teach the concept of absorption.

many contemporary Wyckoffians do teach the Wyckoff method using OHLC charts. When we compare VSA with Wyckoff of course the methodology is different but VSA is not independent, some parts are missing & some parts are added.

I agree that "when weakness appears it appears on up bars" is definitely NOT Wyckoff. Gavin Holmes teaches that the starting point should be the Yao Ming bars & than we should wait to see if PA breaks out or breaks down of that bar & then enter long/short on subsequent no-demand/supply bars, this again is not a Wyckoff way of lookin at a chart.
The loss was not bad luck. It was bad Analysis - D.Einhorn
  • #30,786
  • Sep 19, 2017 7:27am Sep 19, 2017 7:27am
Quoting malcolmb14
{quote} Great trading! And yes there was selling . Now we have to see today if that selling continues or if we see a continuation of the up moves two huge up days cannot go without being retraced . Vsa and open range have given nice trades on gbp last few days . I will post in my blog the setups over the next day or so .
GU from a Daily perspective could well look to return to 3300 area. This is a nice confluence level where we should expect to see buyers kick back in. Even a return to 3300 - 3225 zone would keep the Daily trend well intact. This zone is the upper half of the Sept 12th Daily bar which was on UHV and is right at the key decision point where the long-standing 2017 high was breached and successfully tested for higher prices.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #30,787
  • Sep 19, 2017 7:38am Sep 19, 2017 7:38am
Quoting pres78
{quote} GU from a Daily perspective could well look to return to 3300 area. This is a nice confluence level where we should expect to see buyers kick back in. Even a return to 3300 - 3225 zone would keep the Daily trend well intact. This zone is the upper half of the Sept 12th Daily bar which was on UHV and is right at the key decision point where the long-standing 2017 high was breached and successfully tested for higher prices.
This is the same as GJ Daily. A return to 4650 - 4520 zone could be expected to gather more longs at another key decision point. Again we took out the 2017 high. We also have a key shared level around 4650. It is the H of the Sept 12th (that date seems familiar) and also the 50% hinge of the UHV - crazier than crazy spread Daily bar from June 24th, 2016...
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #30,788
  • Sep 19, 2017 7:50am Sep 19, 2017 7:50am
Quoting zwara
This is my hunt result for today. {image} we have the setup so we start the hunt. {image} After some tests, and AR formation we got an entry so that's kinda of what I am looking to trade today, again that little grey area above price is where the sellers need to show them selfs if no volume comes is this is long trade... loking for 50 pips to collect and move to BE or unless I see weakness coming in the market I may consider partial close and BE sooner. but yet it's expected that this area will attract some selling we will see.
closed 3/4 of the position and BE the rest 2.5% up in the bank is a good day already maybe just maybe i'll get some more.
  • #30,789
  • Sep 19, 2017 10:52am Sep 19, 2017 10:52am
Quoting zwara
{quote} closed 3/4 of the position and BE the rest 2.5% up in the bank is a good day already maybe just maybe i'll get some more.
Well done.


But how about this 68.52% hehehe

Its GJ and GU since tokyo open. 19th-Sep-2017

But its a small real test account.
Attached Image
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #30,790
  • Sep 19, 2017 10:57am Sep 19, 2017 10:57am
Quoting zwara
This is my hunt result for today. {image} we have the setup so we start the hunt. {image} After some tests, and AR formation we got an entry so that's kinda of what I am looking to trade today, again that little grey area above price is where the sellers need to show them selfs if no volume comes is this is long trade... loking for 50 pips to collect and move to BE or unless I see weakness coming in the market I may consider partial close and BE sooner. but yet it's expected that this area will attract some selling we will see.
When do is an up bar a sign of weakness with excessively high volume?
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #30,791
  • Sep 19, 2017 11:02am Sep 19, 2017 11:02am
Quoting pres78
{quote} This is the same as GJ Daily. A return to 4650 - 4520 zone could be expected to gather more longs at another key decision point. Again we took out the 2017 high. We also have a key shared level around 4650. It is the H of the Sept 12th (that date seems familiar) and also the 50% hinge of the UHV - crazier than crazy spread Daily bar from June 24th, 2016...
Have been buying it since tokyo open M30 and M15.

Now it looks like sell, but not sure, possibly unable to remove the bias from psyche.
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Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #30,792
  • Sep 19, 2017 11:11am Sep 19, 2017 11:11am
Quoting malcolmb14
{quote} Great trading! And yes there was selling . Now we have to see today if that selling continues or if we see a continuation of the up moves two huge up days cannot go without being retraced . Vsa and open range have given nice trades on gbp last few days . I will post in my blog the setups over the next day or so .
Good to see you are back.

Hope things are sorted out at your end.

Leaners like me need you in this thread,
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #30,793
  • Sep 19, 2017 12:18pm Sep 19, 2017 12:18pm
Can you guys please share your method of Trading FOMC,
liek scaling in and scaling out, or scalping whatever you like and pracitce that day
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #30,794
  • Sep 19, 2017 2:01pm Sep 19, 2017 2:01pm
Quoting Darastonius
.... Other big difference is, that a high volume upmove is not always a sign of weakness, it can be a sign of strength. High volume on upmoves can show SM buying, not invariably selling. Same for a heavy volume downmoves. If you put in a buy at market price for 50000 lots on EU, your order will push the price up. Heavy volume upmove, you are still buying. This is why I'm saying, trying to mix the two will lead to confusion on some occasions. Better to stick to one, if you do VSA, then read everything with VSA rules.
This is why I love the notion of "Buying Aggression and Selling Aggression". But I can tell you this; VSA tends to be right more than wrong. Weakness, when it appears, usually appears on UP bars. VSA goes on to say, that if the high volume up bar is pushing through a top to the left, it may be strength (pushing through supply, absorption). And if the bar is in fact strength, it will usually be tested successfully within 1-3 intervals. Is Wyckoff really saying something that different about strength on UP bars?

P.S. Along with the many great trades shown, I hope people are also enjoying the discussion. Knowing "why" you are buying, "when" you buy is arguable as important as simply knowing "when" to buy.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #30,795
  • Sep 19, 2017 2:21pm Sep 19, 2017 2:21pm
Quoting bluesoul
{quote} When do is an up bar a sign of weakness with excessively high volume?


I judge the weakness/strenght with the reaction of price after a high volume candle ... Normally weakness appears in up markets and vice versa for stranght but , it's not always the case...

I am not always until for reversal trading, today was a continuation of the long established trend, and with a double bottom confirmation of strenght why simple mate , did price revisit the low of the day ? no not really... so the reaction to that level was an up market, price came to test that low twice and got rejected in high volume rejection...


one important concept that people so often get mistaken with is..
1h, 30 min 15 min 1 min they all Say the same thing , the concept that different time frames may be contradicting that's rubbish, if you see weakness on the 1h coming in the 1 min will show confirmation or NOT that it's weakness, 1min charts are just more detailed information of what you see in 1h, in the 1min chart you can pinpoint where the volume really kicked in on the lows of not and this is important information...

I hope it was not much confused.
  • #30,796
  • Sep 19, 2017 3:30pm Sep 19, 2017 3:30pm
Quoting bluesoul
Can you guys please share your method of Trading FOMC, liek scaling in and scaling out, or scalping whatever you like and pracitce that day
Would like to hear some comments about this question as well..
  • #30,797
  • Sep 19, 2017 3:39pm Sep 19, 2017 3:39pm
Quoting zwara
{quote} I judge the weakness/strenght with the reaction of price after a high volume candle ... Normally weakness appears in up markets and vice versa for stranght but , it's not always the case... I am not always until for reversal trading, today was a continuation of the long established trend, and with a double bottom confirmation of strenght why simple mate , did price revisit the low of the day ? no not really... so the reaction to that level was an up market, price came to test that low twice and got rejected in high volume rejection... one...
not confusing at all, very helpful.
Thanks for detailed explanation.

About TF, I found TF sets for VSA, like Weekly, Daily H4. And H1, M30, M15.
M5 and M1 individual bars sometimes confusing but if we look at whole Price action with reference to volume then it makes some sense.

Overall, I remember when I first time saw this thread in 2010, then I occasionally traded in last 7 years, but whenever I traded I remembered one thing that volume generates a reaction.

Last week was the first week in my history of trading that my account remained same, Net PL 0.
This week I am seeing profits.
Still learning bits and experimenting, but VSA rocks.

And help from You, Malcolm, Pres and other traders who share their analysis is highly appreciated.
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #30,798
  • Sep 19, 2017 3:45pm Sep 19, 2017 3:45pm
Quoting odines
{quote} Would like to hear some comments about this question as well..
Would like to hear this as well. Malc had a great post recently on his blog about news trading.

In the past I've found entries right up to an hour before release but when it takes off the spread jumps to insane highs with Oanda. Not sure if there's way around this and using a 50pt stop to accnt for spread during news. I'm a bit new to forex and heard horror stories abt fixed spread brokers not sure if it's true.
  • #30,799
  • Sep 19, 2017 3:54pm Sep 19, 2017 3:54pm
Quoting HiddenGap
{quote} This is why I love the notion of "Buying Aggression and Selling Aggression". But I can tell you this; VSA tends to be right more than wrong. Weakness, when it appears, usually appears on UP bars. VSA goes on to say, that if the high volume up bar is pushing through a top to the left, it may be strength (pushing through supply, absorption). And if the bar is in fact strength, it will usually be tested successfully within 1-3 intervals. Is Wyckoff really saying something that different about strength on UP bars? P.S. Along with the many great...
Offcourse, enjoying Very much.

and particularly these are my favorite moves, buying climax and selling climax. pays big on reversals.
Holy Grail - Patience and Acceptance
  • #30,800
  • Sep 19, 2017 3:59pm Sep 19, 2017 3:59pm
Quoting cdb07d
{quote} Would like to hear this as well. Malc had a great post recently on his blog about news trading. In the past I've found entries right up to an hour before release but when it takes off the spread jumps to insane highs with Oanda. Not sure if there's way around this and using a 50pt stop to accnt for spread during news. I'm a bit new to forex and heard horror stories abt fixed spread brokers not sure if it's true.
Dukascopy has an option to send a market, stop or limit order using a maximum slippage filter I think
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