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Drawdown: how does it affect your trading and account

  • #61
  • Aug 28, 2017 8:35pm Aug 28, 2017 8:35pm
Quoting GEfx
{quote} I'm not sure that is relevant. I trade with 5 accounts, and can trade up to 15 standard lots in each, but that doesn't take away from the fact that a large dd is to be avoided if you want to efficiently use your margin accounts. For new traders and for experienced traders, you must contain your accounts' exposure to risk. Job 1 for any trader is risk management and risk assessment. You have 2 choices: take a small loss and re-examine the structure and TA of the market to see if you can flip, or take large dd and run the risk that you'll...
you to mate glad for your input new traders will see the light
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #62
  • Aug 29, 2017 1:09am Aug 29, 2017 1:09am
Quoting GEfx
{quote} I'm not sure that is relevant. I trade with 5 accounts, and can trade up to 15 standard lots in each, but that doesn't take away from the fact that a large dd is to be avoided if you want to efficiently use your margin accounts. For new traders and for experienced traders, you must contain your accounts' exposure to risk. Job 1 for any trader is risk management and risk assessment. You have 2 choices: take a small loss and re-examine the structure and TA of the market to see if you can flip, or take large dd and run the risk that you'll...

The voice of reason! Probably mistake number one is poor money management.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #63
  • Aug 29, 2017 5:11am Aug 29, 2017 5:11am
Quoting Aussi
{quote} i have to agree with regarding people falling for the scams that the industry put out there , i went to a seminar 18 years ago on how to be a better trader half way through the seminar the penny dropped THEY GOING TO SELL SOFTWARE , I GOT UP AND WALKED OUT , and i also have to agree it is for some to learn the hard way costing them money ,

Yes software vending, is rife, but worse I think are the so called mentors or gurus, self proclaimed experts with claims of many years experience and knowing some special secrets, bla bla bla, a very personal confidence trick, I have yet to find a mentor who is prepared to publish his trading results in a way that can be checked independently, the reason of course if that is if you are profitable at trading, why would you bother with mentoring? The old adage "Those who can do; Those who can't teach" seems particularly relevant in this space.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #64
  • Aug 29, 2017 5:26am Aug 29, 2017 5:26am
Quoting GuyBaker
{quote} Yes software vending, is rife, but worse I think are the so called mentors or gurus, self proclaimed experts with claims of many years experience and knowing some special secrets, bla bla bla, a very personal confidence trick, I have yet to find a mentor who is prepared to publish his trading results in a way that can be checked independently, the reason of course if that is if you are profitable at trading, why would you bother with mentoring? The old adage "Those who can do; Those who can't teach" seems particularly relevant in this space....
i have no special secrets what i know i learned , i did years and years ago publish my trades but it got to a stage where people sending mail after mail asking for trades , i learnt the hard way so i removed my trade , i was also on etoro years and years ago i also gave that up because one bad trade and the abuse was never ending even when i had large profits i still mentor a few people in Brisbane and Melbourne , but now retired and my hobby is gold prospecting and trading and will be out in the morning at ARARAT national park in victoria 1 hour from where i live
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #65
  • Aug 29, 2017 5:31am Aug 29, 2017 5:31am
Quoting Aussi
{quote} i have no special secrets what i know i learned , i did years and years ago publish my trades but it got to a stage where people sending mail after mail asking for trades , i learnt the hard way so i removed my trade , i was also on etoro years and years ago i also gave that up because one bad trade and the abuse was never ending even when i had large profits i still mentor a few people in Brisbane and Melbourne , but now retired and my hobby is gold prospecting and trading and will be out in the morning at ARARAT national park in victoria...
It's an amazing life when you crack it, all of my stuff is automatic, I literally just monitor the results with daily configuration, which takes about 5 mins. I'll give advice to anybody who asks without of course disclosing my set up details, I never charge for mentorship, but I do have some friends and family following my trading signals, I autotrade their accounts for them, in some cases I do take a profit share. All of my trading stats are open to anyone who asks for them, even my broker statement, I feel strongly that understanding it is possible to crack this business is very important to would-be traders.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #66
  • Aug 29, 2017 5:36am Aug 29, 2017 5:36am
Quoting GuyBaker
{quote} It's an amazing life when you crack it, all of my stuff is automatic, I literally just monitor the results with daily configuration, which takes about 5 mins. I'll give advice to anybody who asks without of course disclosing my set up details, I never charge for mentorship, but I do have some friends and family following my trading signals, I autotrade their accounts for them, in some cases I do take a profit share. All of my trading stats are open to anyone who asks for them, even my broker statement, I feel strongly that understanding...
seems you had a great learning curve well done
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #67
  • Aug 29, 2017 5:48am Aug 29, 2017 5:48am
The highest DD with a following come back I had, was around -85%. Not a nice experience.

I have, in my recent researches, daily DD of 30-70%, followed by 50% (or more) returns, on a 10k demo accounts. That DD is way out of my comfort zone and would not trade it anywhere else, but in a live cent only.

My understanding of a controlled risk is to have profits at least twice as high the DD (or higher than x2).

I will gladly risk 10k account. Taking 100% risk, if the max DD is around 15-20% and return is 30-40%. Would not think twice.

Funk all money management rules! If the DD can be controlled around 15-20% max for double the profit - I am jumping with both leds!:-)
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #68
  • Aug 29, 2017 6:04am Aug 29, 2017 6:04am
Quoting Aussi
{quote} i have no special secrets what i know i learned , i did years and years ago publish my trades but it got to a stage where people sending mail after mail asking for trades , i learnt the hard way so i removed my trade , i was also on etoro years and years ago i also gave that up because one bad trade and the abuse was never ending even when i had large profits i still mentor a few people in Brisbane and Melbourne , but now retired and my hobby is gold prospecting and trading and will be out in the morning at ARARAT national park in victoria...
Gold prospecting Aussi....now you're talking my language. Not much pickings up here in Queensland even for the best that Minelab has to offer :-)
  • #69
  • Aug 29, 2017 6:21am Aug 29, 2017 6:21am
Quoting MoneyZilla
The highest DD with a following come back I had, was around -85%. Not a nice experience. I have, in my recent researches, daily DD of 30-70%, followed by 50% (or more) returns, on a 10k demo accounts. That DD is way out of my comfort zone and would not trade it anywhere else, but in a live cent only. My understanding of a controlled risk is to have profits at least twice as high the DD (or higher than x2). I will gladly risk 10k account. Taking 100% risk, if the max DD is around 15-20% and return is 30-40%. Would not think twice. Funk all money...
i believe that expectation is realistic, i try to aim for 2-3x profit vs. max DD%...finding this measure better than having a fixed monthly % target.

the tricky part is, where to draw that line of acceptable maximum drawdown
my experience, that even a better established system can once in a while -for whatever reason- produce numbers outside from the usual.
thus if the allowed drawdown is 20%, it might happen that some sudden move cause it to jump as far as 30%, and risk tolerance has to be ultimately prepared for a worst case scenario, not only best and worse.

that said, i think if you are disciplined you shouldnt have neither problems for trading that produce 2x DD% for profit return. And i dont think you would even need anything near the 100% exposure to get those numbers.

if you into jumping, jump to my TE, it is not running for years, but should be long enough history to support my words.
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #70
  • Aug 29, 2017 7:10am Aug 29, 2017 7:10am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} And i dont think you would even need anything near the 100% exposure to get those numbers. if you into jumping, jump to my TE, it is not running for years, but should be long enough history to support my words.
Jumped in your TE. Great numbers in there! -5% of a DD only! This is superb performance!

I think to get 30-40% in return, if not daily, at least bi-daily, it takes almost 100% of the account margin. The trick is to control the DD. Learning that part now...

No rich, if cannot make high, unnaturally high returns.

I want shamelessly rich, dude.

Sooner, the better!
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #71
  • Aug 29, 2017 7:52am Aug 29, 2017 7:52am
Quoting MoneyZilla
{quote} Jumped in your TE. Great numbers in there! -5% of a DD only! This is superb performance! I think to get 30-40% in return, if not daily, at least bi-daily, it takes almost 100% of the account margin. The trick is to control the DD. Learning that part now... No rich, if cannot make high, unnaturally high returns. I want shamelessly rich, dude. Sooner, the better!
silly me i thought for a moment, for that 30-40% return you meant monthly...my TE could be scaled to that, with risk corresponding, and still holding the 2x DD= return principle most case.
but daily?
you can make it on demo, and be the demo dollar millionaire few can dream about
on live?
do, or die keep tryin'?
honestly, if you have 200$ risk capital, and the chance is to 1 to 10.000 to make it, maybe just better to collect up 5000x200$ and trade at once than gamble away 10.000x 200$ margined to the hilt in hope this is the one that will make it.
i am sure you have heard about compounding, and seen enough excel tables to know that while things not always happen overnight, they can indeed in turn end you up in the shamelessly rich category if you can stick to what you are doing.
but admit, it wont be the sooner, and even the later is a maybe LOL

how many lottery ticket an average player buys in a lifetime, and how much he/she wins for to show, on average?
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #72
  • Aug 29, 2017 8:28am Aug 29, 2017 8:28am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} you can make it on demo, and be the demo dollar millionaire few can dream about on live? do, or die keep tryin'? honestly, if you have 200$ risk capital, and the chance is to 1 to 10.000 to make it...
No-no-no!

This is something else, mate. Does not work this way. I have posted some recent failures of mine. Not proud of. Very risky. However, they can all pass in a cent without any worries.

But making it with $200 of capital is absolutely possible and the chances of success are higher than... I do not know... I think higher than 90%. Possible only in cent account, of course. $100,000 USC and I will not worry for anything. That is just $1,000 USD. The daily returns cannot be 30-40%, unfortunately. More like 3-4% instead. The trick is to make it there with 10k account (USC or USD, it does not really matter). Making 3-4k a day is not an issue with 100k account (USC/USD), but that is not the 30-40% daily I DESIRE...
Maadik Hugiis. IQ 69.
  • #73
  • Aug 29, 2017 8:58am Aug 29, 2017 8:58am
Quoting Aussi
{quote} seems you had a great learning curve well done

Thanks, I was slow though, it took me maybe 10 years and loads of losses during that period.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #74
  • Aug 29, 2017 5:26pm Aug 29, 2017 5:26pm
Quoting GuyBaker
{quote} All of my trading stats are open to anyone who asks for them, even my broker statement, I feel strongly that understanding it is possible to crack this business is very important to would-be traders.
Since you would be a very rare and endangered species as a profitable retail trader, I am interested to see if you can show profitablity that goes beyond what can be achieved by luck over a certain time period. Convince me.
  • #75
  • Aug 29, 2017 6:28pm Aug 29, 2017 6:28pm
Quoting Copernicus
{quote} Gold prospecting Aussi....now you're talking my language. Not much pickings up here in Queensland even for the best that Minelab has to offer :-)
hi mate not much here in the golden triangle either mate ,went to a area in Ararat a few weeks ago old diggings and spotted a area near the mines , I AM GOING TO DIG A HOLE NEAR problem we both have is that thousands have been over the same area picking the gold out so not much around the 6 inchs down , so down i go
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  • #76
  • Aug 29, 2017 6:43pm Aug 29, 2017 6:43pm
Quoting Aussi
{quote} hi mate not much here in the golden triangle either mate ,went to a area in Ararat a few weeks ago old diggings and spotted a area near the mines , I AM GOING TO DIG A HOLE NEAR problem we both have is that thousands have been over the same area picking the gold out so not much around the 6 inchs down , so down i go
Yep mate...but with each new technology upgrade of the Minelab series some luck *ugger* picks up a big nugget on old turf that they thought had been fully worked out. I am hoping that one day I will be that lucky *ugger* :-)

Good to hear there is another crazy gold hunter on this forum.
  • #77
  • Aug 29, 2017 6:52pm Aug 29, 2017 6:52pm
Quoting Copernicus
{quote} Yep mate...but with each new technology upgrade of the Minelab series some luck *ugger* picks up a big nugget on old turf that they thought had been fully worked out. I am hoping that one day I will be that lucky *ugger* :-) Good to hear there is another crazy gold hunter on this forum.
i have a makro gold racer 56khzwith big and small coil went out with a friend who had a sdc2300 and a friend who had a gp5000 i found a half grammer they found nothing near st arnard all hype i recon with the minelab, i saw a 4.5 kilo nugget in my local paper he says he found it near bendigo , luck and time mate i enjoy going out so i keep going better get going
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #78
  • Aug 29, 2017 7:14pm Aug 29, 2017 7:14pm
Quoting Aussi
{quote} i have a makro gold racer 56khzwith big and small coil went out with a friend who had a sdc2300 and a friend who had a gp5000 i found a half grammer they found nothing near st arnard all hype i recon with the minelab, i saw a 4.5 kilo nugget in my local paper he says he found it near bendigo , luck and time mate i enjoy going out so i keep going better get going
Here I was thinking I was on top of the world with the GPX5000....and then the **stards* released the GPZ7000 series. I thought I was at Hogwarts with the Nimbus 5000 for a while....but I was wrong.

I was picking up heaps of old buckshot from around the late 19th century with the 5000 at about 2 metres at an old gold mine site on my farm near Cangai in Northern NSW . It's discrimination was awesome. It is a shame the buckshot wasn't Au....otherwise I wouldn't be talking on this forum now. :-)
  • #79
  • Aug 29, 2017 7:53pm Aug 29, 2017 7:53pm
Everyone is different. People who don't stop loss their trades may have their reasons. Well, I'm only being polite. To those people: may DD be with you.

As the successful traders say: Money management is the only holy grail.
  • #80
  • Aug 29, 2017 8:32pm Aug 29, 2017 8:32pm
Quoting Aussi
A valid point of trading accounts is the so called draw down how does it affect your trading and how does it affect your account as a trader .
In essence, successfully managing drawdown is literally the difference between being a successful trader or not. Keeping your trading lot size the same, you could increase the account deposit in order to have a smaller drawdown. The problem with that is, most people don't have a large deposit to work with so you have to work on the trading technique in order to develop a low drawdown system.
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