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Trading "business?" what is your turnover and profit margin?

  • #81
  • Jul 8, 2017 5:28am Jul 8, 2017 5:28am
Quoting GuyBaker
Many of the people on here claim that they treat trading like a business. It is my not secretly help opinion that the majority of "traders" in the retail space are nothing more than gamblers in denial. So in the spirit of altruism by helping a few break their addiction, if this is your business, tell us your turnover and the profit margin on that turnover. I expecting a pretty empty thread, prove me wrong
i have made heaps of money over 20 years plus but what you are asking is called greed ,find a good trader and hang on to his breeches . thats what you trying to do
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #82
  • Jul 8, 2017 5:29am Jul 8, 2017 5:29am
Quoting WolGod
{quote} LOL I know. Its ridiculous. Im not 100% serious. Just saying im here. We'd meet in person Have to ask yourself is 20 days of smashing markets enough proof? Id say yes. You cant fluke intraday markets for more than say 5 sessions. Say a monthly trader smashes it for 2 years its the same as someone smashing it 20 days. Infact with 2 sessions a day could argue a single day for a trader is like 2 periods of trade for other "traders".
if you have 1000-5000 trades in this time, then maybe, but you will not have. so its saying not much.

and again. you told in january same textes. why you tell now you only habe 20 days amshing market? and rest days from january, you would have to show all time from beginning, because you started this january. trying to hide this losing trades?

even the month last year would be good, you told the people you was winning 1000% per year, so show them , you will offer something!!

beeing a poser is difficult or? your own words now killing you!!
  • #83
  • Jul 8, 2017 5:31am Jul 8, 2017 5:31am
Quoting Aussi
{quote} i have made heaps of money over 20 years plus but what you are asking is called greed ,find a good trader and hang on to his breeches . thats what you trying to do

How is what I am asking called "greed"?
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #84
  • Jul 8, 2017 6:24am Jul 8, 2017 6:24am
Quoting GuyBaker
{quote} Excellent.
Cheers
Quoting GuyBaker
{quote} What do you trade?
AUD/CAD only. Primarily because of no sudden moves and the limited historical range. I keep 20% of our capital in trading accounts. Another 20% is in other low to moderate risk investments. The remaining 60% is in bank accounts. I make withdrawals and rebalance once every six months.
Quoting GuyBaker
{quote} Spot Forex?
Just standard OTC Forex.
  • #85
  • Jul 8, 2017 4:58pm Jul 8, 2017 4:58pm
Forex as a business has been amazing for me in last few years, I have managed to make massive returns through it but you need to have ability to manage it through. I have been trading since last 8 years, it’s not something easy but if you are determined then there is huge potential out there. I am currently able to generate around 1-2k per month with 5k investment. So, I am pretty pleased especially since last couple of months.
  • #86
  • Edited 9:37pm Jul 8, 2017 8:59pm | Edited 9:37pm
Quoting Fedricks
Forex as a business has been amazing for me in last few years, I have managed to make massive returns through it but you need to have ability to manage it through. I have been trading since last 8 years, its not something easy but if you are determined then there is huge potential out there. I am currently able to generate around 1-2k per month with 5k investment. So, I am pretty pleased especially since last couple of months.
why not invest 100k and make 10-20k return? after having massive return in last few years it should be better to invest more then only this 5k.
  • #87
  • Jul 8, 2017 9:49pm Jul 8, 2017 9:49pm
Quoting CindyXXXX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L4JnAuW00k{quote} I love it how every else but you instantly becomes an expert in your own personal situation, personality, goals and finances with zero inofrmation but a personal threat and distabilaization to THEIR own personal situation, personality, goals and finances
what will you say with this? you dont know math, did not see what he did wrote "massive returns in last few years", or whats your problem? its a simple question why not investing more with extrem return over few years. sounds a little bit crazy what you write to this, when someone is asking a logic question.

maybe you should really learn basics, or learn reading. dont know to say any more, your video looks same crazy like your content you wrote.
  • #88
  • Edited Jul 9, 2017 9:17am Jul 8, 2017 10:08pm | Edited Jul 9, 2017 9:17am
Quoting CindyXXXX
{quote} play your own game, was my only point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d7Hs1kXBZM
i do, thats useless point.

your text is still useless, because you did not recognize i did ask a simple logic question.

then i could also ask. why you did not ask this logic question too? why you tell me i should not ask someone questions, why you dont let me play own game and let me ask this, why you want try to avoid that someone using questions,.....

maybe you can see that what you write is complete useless (no questions doing, only own business doing, this you tell in forum?? really??? ) and with 100% no content after this.

i asked him because i was interesting to know why he was using still this little amount after many good high return years. but this you could see easy too without someone need to tell you in details.

by the way: your videos are so useless, you should really hold to your own words: concentrate your lost energy in trading , if you trade like you write and send videos you will need all your time to improve. shall i send now each posting from me to you with one video too, that dont have any content in it what helps?
  • #89
  • Jul 9, 2017 2:02am Jul 9, 2017 2:02am
Quoting Fedricks
Forex as a business has been amazing for me in last few years, I have managed to make massive returns through it but you need to have ability to manage it through. I have been trading since last 8 years, its not something easy but if you are determined then there is huge potential out there. I am currently able to generate around 1-2k per month with 5k investment. So, I am pretty pleased especially since last couple of months.
20-40% per month sounds unsustainable to me. For your strategy going back 1000 or more setups, what is your maximum draw-down from any given peek ? What percentage of your account are you risking on each trade?
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #90
  • Jul 9, 2017 2:07am Jul 9, 2017 2:07am
Quoting CindyXXXX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L4JnAuW00k{quote} I love it how every else but you instantly becomes an expert in your own personal situation, personality, goals and finances with zero inofrmation but a personal threat and distabilaization to THEIR own personal situation, personality, goals and finances

The point of this thread is to quiz people about their method, many people are living in denial. If we can't answer basic questions about our trading method how confident should we be about it continuing to work?
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #91
  • Jul 9, 2017 2:17am Jul 9, 2017 2:17am
Quoting kenshin
Here's a quick rundown of my last 12 months. Compounded return is approx 60% and it's an average year for me. Some years I get more, others less. At the moment I have 3.7% of my balance tied up in current trades. This is on a six figure live account spread over multiple brokers. I make enough for my family (wife, daughter, and myself) to live comfortably with no other work commitments. My system is my own creation and is entirely automated. It averages around 6 trades a day, with an average holding period of 20 hours per trade. Profit factor is...

I also trade fully automatically. Have three servers in the city of London. Which brokers do you trade with?
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #92
  • Edited 3:08am Jul 9, 2017 2:29am | Edited 3:08am
Quoting newbegger
{quote} My point is turnover and profit margin are not enough to trade for a living without the time factor and trade size. If I only trade 2 times a year on a 10,000 account, not likely that trading can be my only source of income no matter how high my margin is unless I live in 3rd world country.

yeah and showing your turnover (annual is of course assumed as that is standard practice) and profit margin would exactly show your income... This thread is about answering questions about your method and looking inward at yourself and your knowledge, I have two objectives, firstly help those who are living in denial, secondly, maybe just maybe find some real traders I could relate to and share ideas with or even swap signals with.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #93
  • Jul 9, 2017 3:34am Jul 9, 2017 3:34am
Quoting GuyBaker
{quote} I also trade fully automatically. Have three servers in the city of London. Which brokers do you trade with?
I am using GlobalPrime, Pepperstone, and AxiTrader. I'm using one server which is located in New York.
  • #94
  • Edited 3:59am Jul 9, 2017 3:42am | Edited 3:59am
Quoting kenshin
{quote} I am using GlobalPrime, Pepperstone, and AxiTrader. I'm using one server which is located in New York.
I am testing an OTC Forex system for the EUR/USD, please find attached, my simulated results since 2003.

It is running live now, with extremely small money, I will see how it runs for probably a year before risking real capital on it, I like the idea of having multiple systems trading completely different algorithms, my thoughts are that way there will be very little co-variance between the two systems and it should be possible to increase ones overall return by trading multiple systems essentially on the same capital.

What are your thoughts?
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Zen theoretical.pdf   51 KB | 229 downloads
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #95
  • Jul 9, 2017 4:40am Jul 9, 2017 4:40am
Looks good, although the drawdown in 2008/2009 is a bit bigger than I would be comfortable with. I would probably use 0.5% unit size until you've doubled the deposit, then gradually scale up to the 1% unit size. Just my opinion, maybe you are more tolerant of risk than me.

What I did with my system was backtest, tweak, and optimize to get the maximum return while keeping the drawdown to less than 25%. Then I scaled my 30K deposit in. i.e. I started with 5K, traded this until I had 25% profit, then added another 5K, traded the total until it was up 25%, and so on up until I had deposited 30K, and had 7.5K profit. Once my deposit was in, I then traded at this low risk until I was up 100% with 30K profit. Then I scaled my risk up gradually until the maximum historical drawdown was 35%. I traded like this for a little over 3 years. In 2011 we settled our taxes and all bills, so there are no loans and we own our house. My wife and I then both quit work. After this, every six months, I stop trading and take out half the profit made for the previous six months and continue to maintain the 60/20/20 ratio I mentioned earlier.

I have looked at implementing more systems in my portfolio, but haven't been able to come up with anything I'm happy with. Probably need to spend less time playing and more time studying, heh.
  • #96
  • Jul 9, 2017 5:49am Jul 9, 2017 5:49am
Quoting kenshin
Looks good, although the drawdown in 2008/2009 is a bit bigger than I would be comfortable with. I would probably use 0.5% unit size until you've doubled the deposit, then gradually scale up to the 1% unit size. Just my opinion, maybe you are more tolerant of risk than me. What I did with my system was backtest, tweak, and optimize to get the maximum return while keeping the drawdown to less than 25%. Then I scaled my 30K deposit in. i.e. I started with 5K, traded this until I had 25% profit, then added another 5K, traded the total until it was...

We have a similar approach. My Binary system has been running since December 2015, I gradually scaled up the capital I was using, my wife and I live entirely from my trading as you do. I use 1% of my total cash per trade on my Binary system (I call it Orac) and I compound at each month end that shows a profit. With the new system that is in forward test (I call it Zen) I will risk only 0.5% per trade, I like maximum drawn down from peak in the region of 15%, Orac since 2008 is 17%. With Zen because of the way it works I will probably only compound annually.

It occurred to me after I started this thread that it might be possible to form relationships with other like minded and successful traders to exchange signals, of course nobody would disclose their methodology, but it is probably safe to exchange signals to drive each others accounts on a quid pro quo basis, any thoughts?
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #97
  • Jul 9, 2017 6:03pm Jul 9, 2017 6:03pm
Thankyou for your offer, but I will respectfully decline. My intention by posting here was to address your opening post and demonstrate that it is possible to consider Forex as a business and give some details as to how I went about doing it.
  • #98
  • Edited 12:34am Jul 10, 2017 12:10am | Edited 12:34am
Quoting kenshin
Thankyou for your offer, but I will respectfully decline. My intention by posting here was to address your opening post and demonstrate that it is possible to consider Forex as a business and give some details as to how I went about doing it.
Yes i understand. That is the main intention of this post, to show that it can be done, with the correct approach.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #99
  • Jul 10, 2017 1:17am Jul 10, 2017 1:17am
Quoting kenshin
Thankyou for your offer, but I will respectfully decline. My intention by posting here was to address your opening post and demonstrate that it is possible to consider Forex as a business and give some details as to how I went about doing it.
Yes i understand. That is the main intention of this post, to show that it can be done, with thte correct approach.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #100
  • Jul 10, 2017 3:18am Jul 10, 2017 3:18am
It’s fairly easy to say that but to actually manage it is long shot. When I said I am able to generate that return, it’s not like without any loss. I have often faced MC, but managed it somehow, so you can’t expect to manage it with 100k investment as the mindset is different in that place. Actually, it’s very much unsustainable since mostly it’s trading through major events like NFP and such, so one wrong move and it can leave me in difficult situations.
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