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Do you believe brokers hunt your stoploss

  • #181
  • Jun 30, 2017 4:37am Jun 30, 2017 4:37am
Quoting AlastorFate
The market tends to seem to be trading at times against (retail) traders who use conventional trading strategies. Usually the big players/institutional traders are behind price manipulation because they do have the power to move prices because of the huge trading positions they tend to take. Other times, it's the market reacting to major news. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation How to Tell if Your Broker is Trading Against You https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRCrio6-k5A If you day trade using a very tight stop...
I totally agree with this. Here's how I see it. A market maker broker or institutional trader is just like any other trader. They are trying to minimize risk while maximizing profit. In the case of a broker that is a market maker, I don't believe they are going to go out of their way to try and hit your stop loss every time. That would be too risky for them to do. Think about the size of the position they would have to take to move the market to hunt each retail trader's individual stop loss. That's unrealistic. What I think they do is look at all the orders, sort of like what an equity trader would do with level 2, and after observing the market depth they can see where most of the orders are clustered. They can then decide on an entry position against those orders while anticipating a further price movement at that point due to the execution of those orders. In the case of institutional traders, they don't have the same type of market depth, but their experienced traders can use a best guess due to their experience in knowing where a lot of those kind of orders would lie. Again, they would only do this if they strongly believed a lot of traders have orders at that level. They are not looking at "your" 1 or 2 lot order alone and out to get "you." It would be too risky and there wouldn't be enough money in it for their risk to reward. So basically, if you are in their way, you will get hit. If not, you won't. Simple as that. Sometimes you will be in the way, sometimes you won't. You just have live with that I think.
  • #182
  • Jun 30, 2017 3:43pm Jun 30, 2017 3:43pm
Quoting Madinvestor
{quote} I totally agree with this. Here's how I see it. A market maker broker or institutional trader is just like any other trader. They are trying to minimize risk while maximizing profit. In the case of a broker that is a market maker, I don't believe they are going to go out of their way to try and hit your stop loss every time. That would be too risky for them to do. Think about the size of the position they would have to take to move the market to hunt each retail trader's individual stop loss. That's unrealistic. What I think they do is look...
if a broker has 300 traders with stops average pips say 40 pips that 12000 pips at a time for a broker to close , you work out the maths
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  • #183
  • Jun 30, 2017 4:08pm Jun 30, 2017 4:08pm
Yeah definitely, brokers are in it for themselves too at the end of the day
  • #184
  • Jun 30, 2017 4:15pm Jun 30, 2017 4:15pm
Quoting Madinvestor
{quote} I totally agree with this. Here's how I see it. A market maker broker or institutional trader is just like any other trader. They are trying to minimize risk while maximizing profit. In the case of a broker that is a market maker, I don't believe they are going to go out of their way to try and hit your stop loss every time. That would be too risky for them to do. Think about the size of the position they would have to take to move the market to hunt each retail trader's individual stop loss. That's unrealistic. What I think they do is look...

The dodgy brokers simply hedge your position if you are a losing trader. All this crap about market makers, brokers, and all hunting your stop loss is just not true. The fund managers that are trading hundreds of millions overnight couldn't give a rat's ass about you retail guys and most FX companies I've seen don't have professional traders in them at all - just a bunch of account managers who couldn't tell their ass from their elbow - the only objective they have is to take your money and get you to put more money in the account after you lose it (with their help in most cases) to prevent you from ever taking it out.

Again, nobody NEEDS TO HUNT YOUR STOP LOSS, nobody gives a toss where you put your stop loss. The only type of stop loss hunting that makes any sense is a spike on the spread when it's near a bunch of orders -SL/TP/Pending.

Use a stop loss, or you will lose your account, eventually. Stop letting American UFO conspiracy style propaganda keep you from making any progress.
  • #185
  • Edited 6:02am Jul 1, 2017 2:11am | Edited 6:02am
Stop Loss is an order that provides liquidity, if there's a lot of SL order in certain level, prices are likely to spike there 1st to fill that.. I've experienced it before where the price hit my SL before going to the direction I want. My entry is supposed to be at the level where I usually place my stop loss. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Thanks.
Thank you
  • #186
  • Jul 1, 2017 5:12pm Jul 1, 2017 5:12pm
Quoting defxz
Stop Loss is an order that provides liquidity, if there's a lot of SL order in certain level, prices are likely to spike there 1st to fill that.. I've experienced it before where the price hit my SL before going to the direction I want. My entry is supposed to be at the level where I usually place my stop loss. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Thanks.
yep
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  • #187
  • Jul 2, 2017 9:37am Jul 2, 2017 9:37am
It shouldnt matter really, im sure you will get one loss trade here and there, but less likely to be say 5 in a row thanks to stop hunting.
  • #188
  • Jul 2, 2017 9:18pm Jul 2, 2017 9:18pm
Quoting venividivici
It shouldnt matter really, im sure you will get one loss trade here and there, but less likely to be say 5 in a row thanks to stop hunting.
even one is not good mate but i understand what you are saying
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  • #189
  • Jul 2, 2017 11:57pm Jul 2, 2017 11:57pm
Quoting Aussi
{quote} even one is not good mate but i understand what you are saying
if your stop is -50 pips then i understand but if its -5 or less it wont effect you much.
  • #190
  • Jul 3, 2017 1:58pm Jul 3, 2017 1:58pm
Quoting defxz
Stop Loss is an order that provides liquidity, if there's a lot of SL order in certain level, prices are likely to spike there 1st to fill that.. I've experienced it before where the price hit my SL before going to the direction I want. My entry is supposed to be at the level where I usually place my stop loss. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Thanks.
Yes. Technically speaking there is no in or out. There might be an in or out of leverage, which is what is really happening when leveraged traders are "in" a trade or "not", but there is always market exposure, just not always leveraged. When you're long your exit is by selling. When you're short, your exit is by buying back, the logical consequence is that every direction change is liquidity to someone, it just depends on the direction (or the market exposure) that someone was interested in.

My rule of thumb is this:
Directly on a support or a resistance or on the peak of a reversal is a bad place for trade actions. For an entry order, there is uncertainty (break or bounce? Will it reverse or extend?). So if you are a trader targeting these patterns you will probably want to look for some proof of direction change first. For a Stop Loss (the Exit order), it is an equally bad place because many (dumb?) people still have their order exactly at that place making that price a likely targeted zone (and a cluster of orders).
There is to say that it is not all happening on ill intent. Sometimes a dip is just an opportunity to get cheaper into a long position and that trader/that group of traders might have a very different time horizon than you. He isn't fighting your trade at all, he may not even be interested in the liquidity of many (bad?) placed stop losses. All he saw was a dip as an opportunity to buy.

I consider myself a reversal trader but that is actually a problematic description because I'm not jumping on the reversal signal. I'm jumping on the start of an extension that follows a reversal signal and that is because of that "rule of thumb". It is also because of that rule of thumb that my stop loss is never directly on the peak - it is somewhere above that peak (or below that bottom). Sometimes it is just where I would change my direction anyway. Other people would even go so far and say "no reason to close a short, without a reason to buy" - ping-pong with money.
  • #191
  • Jul 3, 2017 2:19pm Jul 3, 2017 2:19pm
Quoting JensG
{quote} Yes. Technically speaking there is no in or out. There might be an in or out of leverage, which is what is really happening when leveraged traders are "in" a trade or "not", but there is always market exposure, just not always leveraged. When you're long your exit is by selling. When you're short, your exit is by buying back, the logical consequence is that every direction change is liquidity to someone, it just depends on the direction (or the market exposure) that someone was interested in. My rule of thumb is this: Directly on a support...
true, ping pong is extrem good, because tp and sl are then correct calculated (when you win). without pingpong its only guessing or unsecure about future direction. i like it too, and its one of the best and most profitable calculation to run from 1, 2, 3,.. conncected trades to a big block and you see your tp and sl hit perfect. you need to love math for this calculation.
  • #192
  • Jul 3, 2017 6:24pm Jul 3, 2017 6:24pm
i have another issue about my broker's mt5 platform,it oftens by itself open posiitons without my knowing,pardon me for my poor english,i have asked to them but they ussualy said that it's my responsibility since i never activate auto trade feature,and i know nothing about expert advisor,it occurs happen after i clear positions made by me,in my mt5 appears auto trade(pending order e.a sell limit,but limit etc with various volume size),i just wonder why did it happened and what should i do to cancel this order? did my broker put this EA in my mt5 platform? thanks alot guys...
  • #193
  • Jul 3, 2017 8:06pm Jul 3, 2017 8:06pm
Quoting boepoensoe
i have another issue about my broker's mt5 platform,it oftens by itself open posiitons without my knowing,pardon me for my poor english,i have asked to them but they ussualy said that it's my responsibility since i never activate auto trade feature,and i know nothing about expert advisor,it occurs happen after i clear positions made by me,in my mt5 appears auto trade(pending order e.a sell limit,but limit etc with various volume size),i just wonder why did it happened and what should i do to cancel this order? did my broker put this EA in my mt5...
Change your account's password , uninstall your mt5 and reinstall it again. hope the problem will fixed
  • #194
  • Jul 4, 2017 7:28pm Jul 4, 2017 7:28pm
Quoting JensG
{quote} Yes. Technically speaking there is no in or out. There might be an in or out of leverage, which is what is really happening when leveraged traders are "in" a trade or "not", but there is always market exposure, just not always leveraged. When you're long your exit is by selling. When you're short, your exit is by buying back, the logical consequence is that every direction change is liquidity to someone, it just depends on the direction (or the market exposure) that someone was interested in. My rule of thumb is this: Directly on a support...
now thats thinking
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  • #195
  • Jul 6, 2017 6:53pm Jul 6, 2017 6:53pm
Quoting boepoensoe
i have another issue about my broker's mt5 platform,it oftens by itself open posiitons without my knowing,pardon me for my poor english,i have asked to them but they ussualy said that it's my responsibility since i never activate auto trade feature,and i know nothing about expert advisor,it occurs happen after i clear positions made by me,in my mt5 appears auto trade(pending order e.a sell limit,but limit etc with various volume size),i just wonder why did it happened and what should i do to cancel this order? did my broker put this EA in my mt5...
??????
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  • #196
  • Jul 6, 2017 8:21pm Jul 6, 2017 8:21pm
Quoting defxz
Stop Loss is an order that provides liquidity, if there's a lot of SL order in certain level, prices are likely to spike there 1st to fill that.. I've experienced it before where the price hit my SL before going to the direction I want. My entry is supposed to be at the level where I usually place my stop loss. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Thanks.

Well said
  • #197
  • Jul 6, 2017 9:56pm Jul 6, 2017 9:56pm
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well
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  • #198
  • Jul 9, 2017 3:04am Jul 9, 2017 3:04am
Quoting Aussi
Hi girls and guys does your broker hunt your stoploss and do you believe a stoploss is a must
This is appropriate for the market maker (mainly non-regulated Forex brokers). Even they create false spikes in market! But, transparent Forex brokers are different! They secure traders trading capital and moderate their live trades position in the right way!
  • #199
  • Jul 9, 2017 3:21am Jul 9, 2017 3:21am
When I was a newbie I trade with a scam broker where I always used SL to reduce my loss but alas! My Stop loss didn’t work at all even sometimes demo. That’s why we have to make sure the real regulated broker which doesn’t hunts traders SL.
  • #200
  • Jul 9, 2017 7:47pm Jul 9, 2017 7:47pm
Quoting JensG
{quote} Yes. Technically speaking there is no in or out. There might be an in or out of leverage, which is what is really happening when leveraged traders are "in" a trade or "not", but there is always market exposure, just not always leveraged. When you're long your exit is by selling. When you're short, your exit is by buying back, the logical consequence is that every direction change is liquidity to someone, it just depends on the direction (or the market exposure) that someone was interested in. My rule of thumb is this:...
Exactly, this really helps me when I first realized it. When most trader let's say buy at 110.00 and all of their SL is at 100.00, that means they're also selling at 100.00 and of course 100.00 is the cheaper price for me Please correct me if I'm wrong
Thank you
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