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Discussions on Order Flow/Volume

Quoting DonPato
{quote} Thank you for the vote of confidence. I am now seeing a bit of a stop out on the shorts but far weaker than I expected it might be. Of course the day isn't over yet and the US session has just begun. So I'll have to see what this looks like at the end of the NY session. However I suspect another "stab" at the lows before things skyrocket. {image}
thanks @DP ... just have some freetime & read some of your recent posts again!
... as i understand the colors of your delta profile: Green bars mean heavy Ask volume & Red bars mean heavy Bid volume, am I correct, just simple like that or something else?
what does the Magenta & the SkyBlue bars mean please?

Good Day all!
positive interest or negative interest?
Quoting aPhong
... as i understand the colors of your delta profile: Green bars mean heavy Ask volume & Red bars mean heavy Bid volume, am I correct, just simple like that or something else? what does the Magenta & the SkyBlue bars mean please? Good Day all!
Let's put the terms as simply as possible. (Bid/ask) mean different things on different markets.

Green is net (Delta) buying. Agressive at the market transactions. Red is just the opposite. Aggressive at the market selling.

The cyan color represents aggressive buying but outside the area where 70% of the total volume transacted. The same applies to magenta. Aggressive selling but outside the area where 70% of the total volume transacted.

I often refer to these areas as "weaker" simply because their volume represents less than 30% but if I see price responding to this "weaker" order flow I know the overall volume as decreased significantly.

Does that help?
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Quoting detector
... I see the exchange ( if I can call it that) from sellers to buyers but only indicator based, not as accurate as your methods, a lucky guess from me, but from you, no,D
The exchange you are referring to cannot be consistently seen in indicators I'm sorry to say. If it could I would be using those indicators. However, I would like to point out two daily candles where the order flow has clearly changed from selling dominance to neutral. I call them "order flow inversions" where the order flow is the opposite of what one might expect...in other words, it is NOT "normal".

These are the kinds of things that "trigger" my attention and prompt me to consider action.
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Can you see what is NOT normal?
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Quoting DonPato
{quote} Let's put the terms as simply as possible. (Bid/ask) mean different things on different markets. Green is net (Delta) buying. Agressive at the market transactions. Red is just the opposite. Aggressive at the market selling. The cyan color represents aggressive buying but outside the area where 70% of the total volume transacted. The same applies to magenta. Aggressive selling but outside the area where 70% of the total volume transacted. I often refer to these areas as "weaker" simply because their volume represents less than 30% but if...
thanks @DP ... That is really helpful! ill practice your method
positive interest or negative interest?
Quoting aPhong
{quote} thanks @DP ... That is really helpful! ill practice your method
Again I wish to point out there is no "system" or "method" to what I am telling you all about. It is simply the way the market works. The "method" (if you want to use that word) is just good decision making...nothing special
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Quoting Rysiek
...DonPato I would like to see how Iran - USA tensions are seen from your footprint perspective.
This market has been ranging for months!!. The latest (and tightest) portion of the range broke down just before christmas. However, just after the new year strong buying came in, and I'm sure there was still a great deal of buying liquidity left at that same level. The buying appears to have been both passive and aggressive. In terms of the conflict in the middle east...I can't say for sure but I'm confident that it had very little to do with this market and was more an excuse to take advantage of the panic for smaller concerns.

I am currently short this market, and am very interested to see what will happen in the area where selling last over came buying.
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Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Quoting DonPato
{quote} The exchange you are referring to cannot be consistently seen in indicators I'm sorry to say. If it could I would be using those indicators. However, I would like to point out two daily candles where the order flow has clearly changed from selling dominance to neutral. I call them "order flow inversions" where the order flow is the opposite of what one might expect...in other words, it is NOT "normal". These are the kinds of things that "trigger" my attention and prompt me to consider action. {image} Can you see what is NOT...
DP, your very right, only when I seen your call I opened the chart to make my constructive view according to my set up, (lucky guess on my part) while my indicators are akin to throwing darts at a board, with the bullseye the target, I may well just hit the board, getting close at times, while you darts are laser guided, a tongue and cheek way, but the true core to price movement is the very thing that creates it, D
I don't need to be good at the game, only good enough to beat my opponent,
Quoting DonPato
{quote} Again I wish to point out there is no "system" or "method" to what I am telling you all about. It is simply the way the market works. The "method" (if you want to use that word) is just good decision making...nothing special
hi, DonPato:
while you mentioned this thread here just for talking OF/V ideas not method or system, but everyone should want to apply this thoughts to their 'trading system'....and so do I. so let me just ask that If I have learned the correct knowledge about the way the market works, can I apply these to my trading and improve my performance?
learning...
Quoting hefei
hi, DonPato: while you mentioned this thread here just for talking OF/V ideas not method or system, but everyone should want to apply this thoughts to their 'trading system'...
Of course!! And indeed that is the whole point of this thread. My idea was to try and "demystify" the entire idea of Order Flow/Volume AND let you all know the true "structure" of the market. It is not the pretty pictures...it is HOW price moves from point A to point B.

The issue is this: I don't know how anyone who reads this thread trades or wants to trade. Your goals and objectives and yes your "style" of seeing the market is unique to you (an ever other person reading this). So how this information is used is up to you (and everyone else). It all depends on how YOU want to interact with the market. Are you a "momentum" trader? Are you a "tend" trader? Are you a "swing" trader? I don't know and it wouldn't help me to know unless I was directly coaching you...(which I am not). So I would hope that when this is clear...the way you use the information would become obvious. But as I stated in the beginning, this is NOT a "how to trade" thread. Nor is it a "system" or "methodology"...it is just how the market works and I suspect that you are still looking at this information from the stand point of "technical analysis" when (IMHO) should look at this from the stand point of "truth".

If you want to buy (to go long), and you see only selling dominant in the market would it make sense to buy? Wouldn't you want to wait until you see the current selling exhaust? Likewise, if you are already long and you can see the dominant buying exhaust...wouldn't want to exit and conserve your profits?

Quoting hefei
...so let me just ask that If I have learned the correct knowledge about the way the market works, can I apply these to my trading and improve my performance?
Yes I was hoping that would be obvious...but if not I would hope that you can use order flow/volume to improve not only the accuracy of your entries and exits, but also see which direction would be most advantages to trade in. Again specifics I cannot (and will not) give here about how to use this to enter and exit, but I believe I have shown several live, in-the-market, on the right hand edge entries in this thread...I'm sure you can look at some of these and figure out something that will work for you.
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Quoting DonPato
{quote} This market has been ranging for months!!. The latest (and tightest) portion of the range broke down just before christmas. However, just after the new year strong buying came in, and I'm sure there was still a great deal of buying liquidity left at that same level. The buying appears to have been both passive and aggressive. In terms of the conflict in the middle east...I can't say for sure but I'm confident that it had very little to do with this market and was more an excuse to take advantage of the panic for smaller concerns. I am currently...
thanks @DP ... I have a doubt ... What is going on at level areas with lots of ticks generated ... & my point of view is ... these levels must be lots of small moneys having their business at... because small moneys cant exactly put all their orders at the only same level/pirce & at the same time.
How is your point of view? ... am i totally wrong ?
positive interest or negative interest?
Hi DonPato!

your charts are fascinating!

What i can see is:
when there are red clusters at the high of the candles - after an upsidemove- get rdy for the downside
when there are green clusters at the low of the candles after a downside move - get ready for the upside

i marked the clusters with white circles.
I´m pretty sure it is not that simple, so where is my mistake?

Cheers from Europe
Shaga
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Quoting aPhong
thanks @DP ... I have a doubt ... What is going on at level areas with lots of ticks generated ... & my point of view is ... these levels must be lots of small moneys having their business at... because small moneys cant exactly put all their orders at the only same level/pirce & at the same time. How is your point of view? ... am i totally wrong ?
It is actually the opposite of what you are saying here. The larger histograms are indeed areas with high tick volume. But we have no way of knowing how large (or small) those ticks (transactions) are. This is why I advise people to watch price REACTION to the order flow. In the final analysis, it really doesn't matter how big the transactions are what we want to know is how is price responding to the order flow.

As a side note...most participants with large volume don't put all that volume to work at the same level. They place it in at different levels to spread out their risk exposure. Again here the price reaction to their order is the major concern. If a large buy order is placed (for example) the price will respond higher and the large participant won't get all their order filled. So they "scale in" with smaller orders to keep price from rising too fast.
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Quoting Shaga
Hi DonPato! your charts are fascinating! What i can see is: when there are red clusters at the high of the candles - after an upsidemove- get rdy for the downside when there are green clusters at the low of the candles after a downside move - get ready for the upside i marked the clusters with white circles. I´m pretty sure it is not that simple, so where is my mistake? Cheers from Europe Shaga {image}
The chart you refer to is what I term a "stable" range. Buying at the bottom and selling at the top. When one of those two things changes the range ceases to be "stable" and very soon thereafter it breaks.
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Quoting DonPato
{quote} The chart you refer to is what I term a "stable" range. Buying at the bottom and selling at the top. When one of those two things changes the range ceases to be "stable" and very soon thereafter it breaks.

i see, thank you!
Quoting DonPato
{quote} This market has been ranging for months!!. The latest (and tightest) portion of the range broke down just before christmas. However, just after the new year strong buying came in, and I'm sure there was still a great deal of buying liquidity left at that same level. The buying appears to have been both passive and aggressive. In terms of the conflict in the middle east...I can't say for sure but I'm confident that it had very little to do with this market and was more an excuse to take advantage of the panic for smaller concerns. I am currently...
I know that using order flow one can hedge profitable using longer and shorter term trades and this is a market that the trader can use more tight stops, UC (the last trade) was a winner and gave many options to a lot of different systems and traders.
Feels right this time!
This is my first ever post on ForexFactory. It was this thread that motivated me to join, so a big thank you to the OP for such an interesting, informative thread.

Unfortunately I can't install and use CTrader as it's not available for the Linux operating system I use.

Would anyone happen to know if the Delta Volume Profile for CTrader will work in the CTrader web browser platform? I'm guessing it might not, as it requires payment and downloading, so it maybe needs some kind of local storage area to reside in.
Monopoly Money Trader
Quoting Flunky
This is my first ever post on ForexFactory. It was this thread that motivated me to join, so a big thank you to the OP for such an interesting, informative thread. Unfortunately I can't install and use CTrader as it's not available for the Linux operating system I use. Would anyone happen to know if the Delta Volume Profile for CTrader will work in the CTrader web browser platform? I'm guessing it might not, as it requires payment and downloading, so it maybe needs some kind of local storage area to reside in.
You can go to this link: https://www.algodeveloper.com/product/volume-profile/
And ask the proprietor if his indicator works on the web platform.
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Just started reading this thread today and am currently on page 5. But I just had to stop to say thank you so much DonPato, incredible information you're sharing with all of us! Looking forward to learning more as I read on.
Hello all...not much time this AM but wanted to follow up on the USD/CAD long that I was looking at two weeks ago. I currently have one position running that is positive about 78 pips (down slightly from over 100). I am now looking at the weekly order flow and have seen the following:
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This is my own term (order flow inversion). And when it happens on a weekly chart that generally signals a change in trend. So I am anticipating that price will generally change direction to a bid but may return to test the area where the buying overcame the selling, and may even spike down to test for stops at this most recent low. If that happens I have another pending order left at the lows to add in.
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
Quoting mangoeater
Just started reading this thread today and am currently on page 5. But I just had to stop to say thank you so much DonPato, incredible information you're sharing with all of us! Looking forward to learning more as I read on.
I'm grateful you found this thread valuable. Please contribute or ask any questions to clarify. Looking forward to hearing from you again soon.
Do more of that which succeeds and less of that which does not - Dennis Gar
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