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Indicators Crap

  • Post #1
  • Quote
  • First Post: Feb 4, 2008 12:55pm Feb 4, 2008 12:55pm
Hi everybody,
i'd lioke to know something.. why most of the indicators out there look very great to read the price history but applied to the live price are continuosly repainting??? That's unusefull crap ain't it?
Let me know if you have the same idea
ciao
Alex
Fuck Forex Factory
I have the same idea...
The staggering bit is that people are still unwilling to part with their beloved re-painting indicators even after they find you that they are re-painting.
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
Most people wait for the close and use indicators for confirmation of what's happened in the past, not what's going to happen in the future. Some of them are helpful to paint a picture of what's going on.

If your comfortable with just price then good for you.


Personally I only just a couple moving averages to paint my picuture. Always on the last closed bar or candle.
I agree with both of you guys.. thanks for getting back on this!
I only use price, Heikin Ashi and MA and i do ok..finally! But i lost a lot of time following fake indicators and stuff that just tells you that you were right or wrong too late, when you can see it from the profit/loss!
Have a great day
Alex
Fuck Forex Factory
Presently in the "technical" trading side of forex there are two schools of thought which continuously fight ---- unfortunately, they are both based on precisely the same thing and the fight is about nothing in reality.

the "price action" or "bare chart" people eskew indicators for simple candle reading and support and resistance areas, while the "indicator" people often load their charts to the point that the candles may not even be visible.

What neither camp fully understands is that EVERYTHING you see on a chart is based on the price moving, and how you wish to LOOK at that movement is your own pursuit.

Into that melee, I am of the latter persuasion and have spent years teaching how to SEE and READ what the market is doing, and have met with more than phenominal results as my average 360 pips a day will attest.

What you miss is if one is trading the shorter term charts, candles, indicators and your girlfriend will be moving around like voodoo dolls ---- BUT they will indicate trend, tp points and everything and anything you need to know to trade well, IF YOU BOTHER TO LEARN HOW TO USE THEM.

many people think indicators should be used to signal entries and exits, but thats a ton of hogwash --- how many times have you seen a stochastic buried in oversold or overbought, and the price keeps moving ?

Forex used to be about fib numbers (which were support and resistance) but since the equities market went completely south, thousands and thousands of equity traders, both institutional and retail, have hit the Forex market, and they use SUPPORT AND RESISTANCE FIGURES.

now there are a number of s+r chart overlays ("barrys support and resistance" being one of the best and available everywhere) that will tell you to the pip where to set your tp point, and combine those with bollinger bands for the FINAL price movement, and youre well set.

the indicators themselves are used to show whether a move will continue, retrace or reverse, and only TIME and LEARNING them will provide that information, and i might just be moving over here with a bunch of newbs and open up shop and TEACH how it works.

what it all comes down to is EXPERIENCE --- like anything else, brain surgery included, if you lack the experience in forex, then you dont know what you dont know, but joy of all joys, IT CAN BE LEARNED EASILY !

enough of that, but i couldnt pass THIS conversation by without a word.

btw --- to the guy using HA candles, do understand while they are super for showing a trend, they are LATE in getting IN and OUT of a trade because of the computations needed to create the candle ---- it you used an s+r overlay, you would be spot on with your trades !

enjoy and trade well

mp
Quoting mparker
Presently in the "technical" trading side of forex there are two schools of thought which continuously fight ---- unfortunately, they are both based on precisely the same thing and the fight is about nothing in reality.

the "price action" or "bare chart" people eskew indicators for simple candle reading and support and resistance areas, while the "indicator" people often load their charts to the point that the candles may not even be visible.

What neither camp fully understands is that EVERYTHING you see on a chart is based on the price...
Greetings MP.

I am of the school of "limited to none" when it comes to indicators. S&R's and Fibs adorn most charts I use. I know that there is always room for improvement and to expand the knowledge base. It would be nice of you to open shop here and share what you deem appropriate.

Regards,

GF
Quoting mparker
many people think indicators should be used to signal entries and exits, but thats a ton of hogwash --- how many times have you seen a stochastic buried in oversold or overbought, and the price keeps moving ?

YOU JERK!!!!!! i was going to write that, but you stole my words. i hate you! lol.

but yeah, that is absolutely true.

an INDICATOR isn't a SIGNALER, it's a freakin INDICATOR it indicates stuff that happened/is happening, it doesn't predict what's going to happen.

the way i look at it is that you should always start off your trading career like you're getting dressed in the morning.

first, you start off with no clothes (indicators). you are trading naked. this way, you get to learn the market. you are relying on your own intuition, knowledge, and expericence.

next, you put on some underwear (something like MAs). These make your analysis of the market faster. these are a shortcut for finding trends, S/R, etc. you already know how to spot these things, but now you have a short cut for it.

next you put on some pants, shorts, or a skirt (something like Volumes or ATR or something) These kinds of things help show buy/sell pressure. again, a shortcut to help you with something you already know.

after that you put on your shirt (bollinger bands, volatility, whatever) to help you see when breakouts are going to occur. again, a SHORTCUT for something you ALREADY KNEW.

that's the whole point of indicators. they show general trading knowledge, but make it easier to read and quicker to acquire.

that's how i look at it. you need to know how the market works, you need to know what your doing before you can start simplifying it.

btw, i hate all those crappy fancy indicators. they are absolutely ridiculous. i also dont like oscillators. i know they have a purpose, but i believe they tell you things you can see from just looking at the market.

but anyways. yeah, indicators indicate. they don't signal.
Quoting mparker
Into that melee, I am of the latter persuasion and have spent years teaching how to SEE and READ what the market is doing, and have met with more than phenominal results as my average 360 pips a day will attest.


the indicators themselves are used to show whether a move will continue, retrace or reverse, and only TIME and LEARNING them will provide that information, and i might just be moving over here with a bunch of newbs and open up shop and TEACH how it works.

IT CAN BE LEARNED EASILY !
I suppose you write copy on websites as well. If this isn't a scam preparation, I've never seen one.

Hmmm, only 360 pips a day. You must be an amateur.
Quoting alelualdi
Hi everybody,
i'd lioke to know something.. why most of the indicators out there look very great to read the price history but applied to the live price are continuosly repainting??? That's unusefull crap ain't it?
Let me know if you have the same idea
ciao
Alex
Yes Not most But every indicator is crap as based on past data. Dont rely on them, that's why i trade without indicator's.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=155627

Pip!
Quoting goingforward
Greetings MP.

I am of the school of "limited to none" when it comes to indicators. S&R's and Fibs adorn most charts I use. I know that there is always room for improvement and to expand the knowledge base. It would be nice of you to open shop here and share what you deem appropriate.

Regards,

GF
GF, there's no need for MP to open shop here. If you want to read 114 pages worth of his non-secret secrets, you can find them here.
Your suspicions would be justified dopey, but no scam lives within me at all and if i decide to come here, there will be MANY along with me to testify that all i do is TEACH and have no other agenda ----- which you will be able to judge for yourself.

the 360 pips are PER account, of which i currently trade 3 as I'm connected with a NYS financial holding company (which neither advertises nor seeks new clients, especially newbs) I make NO statements that cannot easily be proven, but once what i teach is looked at, you will understand my experience !

But as said, I will allow you to draw your own conclusions based on what i say and my refusal to do anything but talk to newbs, via posts, PM or my nightly yahoo chat.

Thnx for the questions though -- best to get that out of the way early on !

enjoy and trade well




Quoting Dopey
I suppose you write copy on websites as well. If this isn't a scam preparation, I've never seen one.

Hmmm, only 360 pips a day. You must be an amateur.
Piphacker

let us say that what you call "repainting" is actually a dynamic market at work, with the indicators and/or the candles simply showing that movement. This is not something one sees on the higher timeframes, which are your trend guide for the day, week or month, but WILL move on the shorter ones. When using support and resistance, EACH resistance point becomes another trade, with resistance being hit, the currency retracing and then moving up to the NEXT resistance point --- the more overlays one uses, the more one can hit EACH AND EVERYONE of these resistance points as a seperate trade, and not ONE trade with numerous drawdowns.

Of course, it depends completely on how you trade, but for me, whether im scalping or lazy and just set a few tp points, it sure is nice to know in advance where the price is heading !

If you choose to trade naked, or with a simple indicator or with chicken bones and voodoo, it is of no bother or concern to me ---- I simply choose indicators that i can PROVE (and WILL prove) are both comfortable and PREDICTIVE in nature.

My reason for choosing indicators is the simple fact that "repeatedly" candle patterns emerge that prove to be wrong, not to forget that candles need to FINISH forming before they are of any worth, but (and this is for me and the ones i teach this to) indicator positions, used along with support and resistance and a simple trending system has proven to repeatedly place pips into the hands of newbs, where the previous week they were doing nothing but losing.

THEY (and there are many) will do any touting needed ---- I have no need

enjoy and trade well

mp




Quoting PipHacker
Yes Not most But every indicator is crap as based on past data. Dont rely on them, that's why i trade without indicator's.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=155627

Pip!
Craig, please note that the information for trading only candles or trading indicators COMES FROM EXACTLY THE SAME PLACE --- THE MOVEMENT OF PRICE.

one could watch the market digitally, analoggy or with popcorn being thrown in the air (heck, you could even read the tape if youre really good), but ALL show exactly the same thing !

I rarely use candles because thats not my STYLE, but also do not argue with those that do and love them. I DO find that many reversal candles form followed by NO reversal, so it sometimes gets this old noggin thinkin !

I have found, and have proven, that one can ANTICIPATE and predict where to take profit on a small move or an 8 hour move, and that is fully witnessed and attested to so i continue to believe in WHAT WORKS FOR ME !

I can teach others WHO REALLY WANT TO KNOW, how that works, but like all pursuits in this world, it requires time and experience.

And btw, ive been a member of FF for a decent time --- its not a matter of setting up shop --- just checking out the neighborhood !

enjoy and trade well

mp




Quoting Craig
I have the same idea...
The staggering bit is that people are still unwilling to part with their beloved re-painting indicators even after they find you that they are re-painting.
"Indicators Crap" ... the same can be said of the new fad: "Price Action" crap!
  • Post #15
  • Quote
  • Edited at 4:19pm Mar 20, 2009 3:53pm | Edited at 4:19pm
Quoting happy1234
"Indicators Crap" ... the same can be said of the new fad: "Price Action" crap!
"Price Action" crap! ? not true, if you could using stochastic this indicator to help you!

Indicator reprint. Sure it does, since indicator just programmed to do what ever it is been told to. if current condition is good for signal, then printed, next few bar show lower condition moving the printed bar.

if you only using a single indicator yet it is Crap!, using more then 4 indicator to help you to determine the trend.

and always using longer time frame indicator like 30 min or 1 hour as your guide.

Quoting blacksun1
an INDICATOR isn't a SIGNALER, it's a freakin INDICATOR it indicates stuff that happened/is happening, it doesn't predict what's going to happen.
I am not going to fight with you that indicator can not predict what is going, however indicators could predict what is going to happend. however you have to find the indicator that will predict what going to happend first...

Quoting PipHacker
Yes Not most But every indicator is crap as based on past data. Dont rely on them, that's why i trade without indicator's.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=155627

Pip!
using support and resistance still are indicators because it told you if the price is go over or below the support and resistance line. you enter when price go over, but if you can using indicator to help you would be better, what I would recommand you an indicator is ADX, when support or resistance line been hit, check ADX to see if DI+ and DI- has big gap between the two line.
mtuppers, I was only stating that there is no real edge in either indicators or these S/R lines that everyone has caught up on recently. I know this goes against the whole TA analysis, but what can I say... One is better off holding a Magic 8-Ball. The only real edge is one's discretion. And I will leave it there.
An "edge" is something that can be measured.

I see the "repainting" crowd has found a new home. How about the high of the day and low of the day indicator does that repaint? It places a dot at the high of the day bar and a dot at the low of the day bar. As time marches on, sometimes a new high or low is made and the indicator moves the dot. Is that repainting?

If you can use a repainting indicator and make money, keep using it. If you can't then perhaps you don't understand what you are looking at in the first place. Either way, there's no reason to be nasty to other posters.
TRO
Quoting alelualdi
Hi everybody,
i'd lioke to know something.. why most of the indicators out there look very great to read the price history but applied to the live price are continuosly repainting??? That's unusefull crap ain't it?
Let me know if you have the same idea
ciao
Alex
I have the same idea too
I see the indicator basher's are out in force again. Most people are just too lazy to learn how to use an indicator properly. Those who bash indicators are usually those who either claim to trade without any or have gotten burned by some of the free ones out there.

If you took someone else's word that a particular indicator was the best thing in the world and it wasn't, you deserve to lose your money and I would like to say thank you because I have enjoyed taking it from you.

Repainting indicators are a result of poor programming nothing else. While I believe that most were created with the best of intentions the code behind them is incorrect. The good news is that most can be fixed by changing 1 line of code. But I guess that would take a little honest effort on the whiner's part to actually do a little work and figure it out. Or, at least be willing to post it here and ask someone to look at it to figure out if it can be made to work correctly.

Instead of crying to mommy that this indicator repaints or that indicator repaints start figuring out what needs to be done to make them right. If you can't at least make the effort, then I suggest you close your account now before I take the rest of your money.
Quoting Toddfx
...perhaps you don't understand what you are looking at in the first place....
or hearing...
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