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When my mind is on tilt...

  • Post #1
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  • First Post: Edited 6:50am Jun 30, 2015 6:31am | Edited 6:50am
Hello guys,

I'm trading Forex some time and finally found a strategy with works for me.
But the big problem is my mind.

So just today I started trading - first trade = lost, 2nd also. I recognized that I'm not feeling well today but nevertheless I tried.
And so the whole shit started; I was angry about myself "why did you even trade" and so on.

I opened position with increased volume, the insane thing is: At this moment I even knew I was doing the wrong thing but I couldn't do a thing about it.
I'ts like I'm forced to do so. And finally I blew my account.
It's not that big of a deal cause I only deposit 100 USD at a time.

Cause I know if I had a million buck in it, I'd even blow this in a day or two.

This happens so many times, sometimes I can control it, but when I'm a bit exhausted or some bad stuff mix together it's just like im on autopilot into the ground.
It's insane - I don't know how to stop this.
You are desperate for gains. Desperate to prove to yourself that you are right.
Stop being desperate. Realise that it takes a long time. Changing a habit does not happen overnight.

I see you've been around a while, has this been happening to you since 2008?


Something that helps me is to reward myself for doing the right thing, and to deny reward for doing the wrong thing. You need to train your subconscious, today it behaved like an unruly child.
You are forced to do so because you want revenge on the market because you keep losing, so basically at those times you are throwing stones at a tank hoping it will explode.

One small solution (just be sure it does not miss-condition you further on) is to open a smallest position size (micro 0.01) with an awefull risk:reward (such as 10 Risk 1 Reward) and just win a few. Subconscious parts in your brain needs to receive some positive information in order to move on. Despite the above is obviously not the way to go with bigger amounts, it will slightly help you to get out of this negative flow you are currently in.
Yes, Robertk, I'll try it tomorrow.

It's like a routine get's triggered when I'm losing. If I'm in a very good mood I can stop this routine but sometimes it just runs.

I know I behave like a child and this is even worse.
  • Post #5
  • Quote
  • Edited 8:27am Jun 30, 2015 8:04am | Edited 8:27am
Quoting Pierce
Hello guys, I'm trading Forex some time and finally found a strategy with works for me. But the big problem is my mind. So just today I started trading - first trade = lost, 2nd also. I recognized that I'm not feeling well today but nevertheless I tried. And so the whole shit started; I was angry about myself "why did you even trade" and so on. I opened position with increased volume, the insane thing is: At this moment I even knew I was doing the wrong thing but I couldn't do a thing about it. I'ts like I'm forced to do so. And finally I...
"the insane thing is: " ....

This is not insane. It's the way it is.
There is no one in the universe who is not making the same "mistake" -- again, not a mistake. It's par for the course.
There is no right or wrong. What's always right is the result.
Imperfection = perfection.
You expect constant result from random data. Not gonna happen.
Of course but I meant I entered trades I'd never enter under normal circumstances.
Quoting Pierce
Of course but I meant I entered trades I'd never enter under normal circumstances.
IMHO, there is no such thing as a normal circumstances.
In the mind the trading activity is divided into two conflicting reasoning:

1) the "would've, could've, should've"
2) The actual trading with a real position with real money.

Since only 2) really matters, 1) can cause some real problems when it's taken as real.
IMHO this sentence

Quoting Pierce
finally found a strategy with works for me.
in the context of your entire first post sounds like an oxymoron.

Perhaps taking some time out to reflect on your strategy might help?
Quote
I'm trading Forex some time and finally found a strategy with works for me.

This is what you want to believe but it's probably not the case.

Retail traders are too extreme: either they think trading is a strategic-game or they think it's a psychological one. You fail not because you're too weak but because you don't fuckin understand what you're doing like most retails.
OP... Do you come from a poker background? I myself do... It's the only time I've heard mental sabotage referred to as "tilt". It's the same in poker, it revolves around getting revenge (as another poster said). It's not always easy to overcome, but it CAN be done. Good luck.
Quoting Nico1359
OP... Do you come from a poker background? I myself do... It's the only time I've heard mental sabotage referred to as "tilt". It's the same in poker, it revolves around getting revenge (as another poster said). It's not always easy to overcome, but it CAN be done. Good luck.
Yes I did for some time.

I chose the word cause it describes best what happens with me in these moments.

Quoting Unabletrader
{quote} This is what you want to believe but it's probably not the case. Retail traders are too extreme: either they think trading is a strategic-game or they think it's a psychological one. You fail not because you're too weak but because you don't fuckin understand what you're doing like most retails.
There is some truth in it but let me explain my problem. My trading would be profitable if I'd stop trading after I've lost one trade and skip this day.
My problem is that after I lost a trade which is normal, I sometimes get into this crazy revenge mode where I trade like crazy.
And I try to get rid of this habit but I don't know how.
Quoting Pierce
{quote} Yes I did for some time. I chose the word cause it describes best what happens with me in these moments. {quote} There is some truth in it but let me explain my problem. My trading would be profitable if I'd stop trading after I've lost one trade and skip this day. My problem is that after I lost a trade which is normal, I sometimes get into this crazy revenge mode where I trade like crazy. And I try to get rid of this habit but I don't know how.

Why is that "crazy revenge mode" not the right thing to do?
Why is it normal to lose a trade ?
What makes your trading profitable ? (it "would be" profitable ? )
Quoting Pierce
It's not that big of a deal cause I only deposit 100 USD at a time.......
How many times have you done this? Sounds like you need to re think your strategy!
  • Post #14
  • Quote
  • Edited 4:44pm Jun 30, 2015 11:29am | Edited 4:44pm
Quoting Pierce
Hello guys, I'm trading Forex some time and finally found a strategy with works for me. But the big problem is my mind. So just today I started trading - first trade = lost, 2nd also. I recognized that I'm not feeling well today but nevertheless I tried. And so the whole shit started; I was angry about myself "why did you even trade" and so on. I opened position with increased volume, the insane thing is: At this moment I even knew I was doing the wrong thing but I couldn't do a thing about it. I'ts like I'm forced to do so. And finally I blew my...

I exactly know your problem struggling with "insane" mind that's is ready to "force" you to trade like the biggest moron on the world However, it's really easy to avoid tilt that leads to big series of idiotic trades. You can't control your emotions (if you are not a monk who meditates 10 hours a day), but you can recognize your actual state of mind. If you feel any negative or unnatural positive emotions TURN OFF your platform and make some physical exercises to release emotions and then some mind exercises like meditation or breathing exercises just to calm your mind and back to responsible trading. Small capital of account can cause some problems with discipline, because you feel that you're wasting time to earn some pennies, however if you want to trade big account you must be confident about your skills, because fear of losing big money will block you, you will be missing good trades which also leads to tilt and bad trades. Here is what I do:

1) Calm down before opening platform, several minutes of easy breathing exercise: slow inhale while counting to 3, pause, slow exhale while counting to 3 and pause, really relaxing after some training.
2) After every closed trade, break and exercise from point 1. Moreover after losing trade 50 push-ups, when trade shouldn't be made at all, because I broke my trading rules 100 push-ups.
3) Take full responsibility for all your actions. You must be aware that when you close your platform, because you must calm down and focus, you can miss trade, but it's better than taking totally wrong trade.
4) Never try to be perfect, because you will suffer that you can earn more, because you closed it too late or too early, so you need standardized rules of closing trades in different type of situation.
5) If you find out that you feel wrong after calming down and back on platform due to missed trades etc. you must leave again, maybe don't trade this day.

Best regards!

Maybe I will add something later.

EDIT:
6) Expect the unexpected Try to think about different market reactions due to random unplanned Draghi/Yellen statement, terroristic attack or enormous earthquake. Market is very sensitive and you must be ready to close position immediately when it caused reaction against you and definitely change style of closing position if it went in your favor. It can be stressful, so sometimes the best idea is to close it after first spike in your favor.
7)Due to point 6, really always remember about stop loss. You can be unlucky, go to toilet for 5 minutes and for example you can realize that your great trending EURNZD position that was 70 pips in plus, now is 150 pips in minus.
8) Again due to point 6, never become to confident about how market will behave and if your strategy assumes market need to be checked every 5 minutes, just do it. It's also good to move stop loss when you are in significant profit for case of unexpected event. In case of normal correction you can move it back to point where it should be in that moment. Few weeks ago I went long on EURNZD with initial stop loss 10 pips, entrance on 5M chart, I was about 30 pips in plus. EURUSD was in uptrend, NZDUSD in downtrend, no signs of reversals, it's usually the best trade you can get in and take profit of the whole wave min after one hour, so I left computer for about 30 minutes with stop loss unchanged. Unexpectedly Merkel said euro is too strong. If I checked chart every 5 minutes I would react fast after first fall (as I always do) and take 60 pips profit. I got -10 pips, it was good reminder of this rule
Quoting Pierce
My trading would be profitable if I'd stop trading after I've lost one trade and skip this day. My problem is that after I lost a trade which is normal, I sometimes get into this crazy revenge mode where I trade like crazy. And I try to get rid of this habit but I don't know how.
You know how!!
And you even write it down...." if I'd stop trading after I've lost one trade and skip this day..."!
You have the answer for your Problem!!
So why you don't do it?

It's a part of Discipline...

Please think about this!! You can solve it!!

Don't let your words sound like the one from a fat guy who what's to be thin...
He also know's the answer for his Problems..."if i would do more sport and eat healhty - everything would be okay"...

It's all up to you!!
Don't be lazy!! You must choose one of the two pains: the pain of regret or the pain of discipline.

You have the choise!!

I wish you all the best!!!
Quoting MFirst
{quote} You must choose one of the two pains: the pain of regret or the pain of discipline. You have the choise!! I wish you all the best!!!
That's a nice statement.
I'll try it.
@ insomniawawa

I'm really thankful for your advice. It seems like you exactly know my problem.

Your idea with the push ups sounds great, I'll try your five recommendations.


So I can leave my patterns behind.
If you want to add smehting feel free.
However I really appreciate your support so far.
Quoting Pierce
{quote} Yes I did for some time. I chose the word cause it describes best what happens with me in these moments. {quote}.
I think the approach to beating tilt in trading isn't much different than beating tilt in poker. You have to learn to focus more on the process and less on the result. If you're in the late stage of a poker tournament with just 10 BBs and pick up AK, it's a no-brainer all-in. If someone calls with AQ and spikes a Q on the flop... oh well. You have to think to yourself, "I made the best decision given the situation I was faced with." You have to think the same thing in trading. When you're presented with a potential set-up, and you analyze all the criteria and it all looks good, then take the trade. If the trade goes against you, understand that you did everything you could to win the trade... At least that's what helps me.
may this help's you a little bit...

http://traderfeed.blogspot.de/2014/0...o-on-tilt.html
Quoting Tavurth
You are desperate for gains. Desperate to prove to yourself that you are right. Stop being desperate. Realise that it takes a long time. Changing a habit does not happen overnight. I see you've been around a while, has this been happening to you since 2008? Something that helps me is to reward myself for doing the right thing, and to deny reward for doing the wrong thing. You need to train your subconscious, today it behaved like an unruly child.
Interesting
I like the idea to reward myself if I follow my plan. Will look at that idea

MT.
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