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The Magic of Compounding

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  • First Post: Edited at 10:17am Aug 24, 2007 9:41am | Edited at 10:17am
  •  FX Articles
  • Joined Feb 2006 | Status: Member | 313 Posts
Have you ever wondered how Warren Buffet made his millions? In this article we look at the concept of compounding.

Some of you know about this, some of you don't. Either way I'm going to give you the basics of compounding, plus a couple of new slants on the concept. I suggest you read The Magic of Compounding not just once, but several times. If you have children, print this write-up and give it to them to read. If they master this concept they will become rich.


The Basics

Compounding describes how numbers, or money, can grow. Numbers can grow in an arithmetic progression, for example 2,4,6,8,10,12 or 3,6,9,12,15,18, where one unit is added on at each step in the progression and that action provides the growth, or, numbers can grow exponentially, 2,4,8,16,32,64. In an exponential progression the increase comes by doubling the number at each step in the progression. See the difference? This is compounding.

Now the really amazing part, the magic, comes when you see how fast compounding will make money grow. And guess what! That's right, I've got a little game to play with you, a little story to tell, that will illustrate this principle. This puzzle is as old as J.P. Morgan's moustache comb, so if you've already been schooled in compounding you've heard it before. But didn't I tell you to read this section several times? OK, then, solve the puzzle with us once more while I tell it for the first time to the children for whom "The Magic of Compounding" has just been printed out.


The Puzzle

I'm a wealthy and generous man, and I want to hire you to work for me for one month. Since I'm also flexible, I give you a choice: you can choose to be payed the entire month's salary up front on the first day of your employment, or, I will pay you 1 cent the first day and I'll double your pay every day for the rest of the month, but you won't get the money until the last day of the month. So on the first day you'll work 8 whole hours and you'll have 1cent coming to you. But on the second day you'll earn 2cents. Hold on, it gets better, the 3rd day with me you'll have earned 4 cents, the day after that 8 cents and so on. Saturdays and Sundays are included just to give you a chance. Oh, by the way, if you take your pay all at once on the first day I'll give you a million bucks ($1,000,000.00) cash. Seems like an easy choice, doesn't it?

Well, you decide for yourself . Now let's look at how much the individual who picked the penney-a-day plan are going to have at month's end. Remember, on the one hand $1,000,000.00. On the other hand:

Day Amount

1 $ 0.01
2 $ 0.02
3 $ 0.04
4 $ 0.08
5 $ 0.16
6 $ 0.32
7 $ 0.64
8 $ 1.28

Hey folks, it's day eight, you're up to $1.28 and you only have a month. Maybe you are better off taking the one shot deal, the million dollars.

Let's see what happens:

Day Amount

9 $ 2.56
10 $ 5.12
11 $ 10.24
12 $ 20.48
13 $ 40.96
14 $ 81.82
15 $ 163.84
16 $ 327.68
17 $ 655.36
18 $ 1310.72
19 $ 2621.44
20 $ 5242.88

By the way, did any of you ask me what month of the year we're in? Is it February with 28 days, or leap year with 29 days, or September with 30 days, or December with 31 days? You should realize that it's going to make a difference. Do you want the million dollars? Ask your kids again which they would choose?

Let's continue:

Day Amount

21 $ 10,485.76
22 $ 20,971.52
23 $ 41,943.04
24 $ 83,886.08
25 $ 167,772.16
26 $ 335,544.32
27 $ 671,772.16
28 $ 1,342,177.28
29 $ 2,684,354.56
30 $ 5,368,709.12
31 $ 10,737,418.24

If you work for me in September with 30 days you make over $5,000,000. In December it's over $10,000,000! I have never met the child who didn't leap at the $1,000,000 on day one. This is because human brains think arithmetically, not exponentially. You might say that we are hardwired to think in this linear way, that the software in our brains compels us to think about progressions as being simple arithmetic ones. Luckily though, how we think about things, our prejudices, our attitudes, and our mindsets, can all be changed and worked with. We can update the software! We can consciously change the way we think about numbers, money and investing by absorbing new information, namely, that when you make your money compound you can get rich sooner rather than later.

Teach your children to live a balanced life, and also help them master this concept and you will have very happy and very rich children. In stocks make money at the bottom by buying depressed securities that are going to come right back, making you a fortune as they rocket off the bottom. In the future make money with the Warren Buffet concept, or classical Graham and Dodd analysis.


The New Slant

Really understanding compounding will make all the difference in investing. I believe that Warren Buffett, the world's greatest investor, is hardwired to think geometrically. He is rich beyond dreams because he totally gets the magic of compounding, and he executes on the concept. I am going to get these numbers wrong because I'm doing them from memory but it doesn't matter. You'll get the concept. Buffett started a partnership way back when. He had a number of limited partners invest with him, and he took 20% of the gains. In the late 1960s he terminated the partnership with his famous letter,

"When you no longer understand the way the game is played, it's time to leave the game."

I'm paraphrasing, even though it's in quotes.

Buffet took about $100 million out of that first partnership for himself, so he was working with $100 million, keep that in mind. In 1974 when the bear market bottomed, it might have been early 1975, he started another rise...he took over Berkshire Hathaway. Buffet, since the 1970's, has been getting a compounded (remember that means exponential) growth rate of about 22 to 24%.

This is where I introduce you to the cousin of the Magic of Compounding, which is called the Rule of 72. With the Rule of 72 you can calculate how long it will take you to double your money at any given rate of return. OK? Let’s take an example. If you're earning 12% on your money and you want to know how long it will take to double it (we're compounding, remember?) divide 72 by 12, and your answer is 6. It will take 6 years to double your money. Let’s do another one. If you're getting 6% on your money, divide 72 by 6 and you'll see that it will take 12 years to double. If you're getting 9%, it's 72 divided by 9, or 8 years to double up.

As for Warren Buffett, he's getting 22% on his money. This means you divide 72 by 22 and gee, in only 3.27 years, or every 3 years and 4 months, he doubles his money. Since he's been at it about 35 years with that $100 million he had to play with, he's doubled his original $100 million almost nine times. You get that by taking 35 years and dividing by a double every 3 years and 4 months. It equals 10.70, or let's go with nine doubles to adjust for a rate of compounding that is varying. The key point is he's not making 9 times his money with the $100 million, that would be an arithmetic progression that would give him $900 million. He's making nine doubles, a geometric or compounded progression.

Let's see how that works.

Warren Buffet's Geometric Progression Starting Dollar Amount: $100 million Time Periods Involved: Nine 3 year and 4 month periods

Period Time Taken Compounded Gain

Starting Point $100,000,000

1. 3 years, 4 months later $200,000,000
2. 6 years, 8 months later $400,000,000
3. 10 years later $800,000,000
4. 13 years, 4 months later $1,600,000,000
5. 16 years, 8 months later $3,200,000,000
6. 20 years later $6,400,000,000
7. 23 years, 4 months later $12,800,000,000
8. 26 years, 8 months later $25,600,000,000
9. 30 years later $51,200,000,000

I believe Buffet is worth about $47 billion. It doesn't matter, he is somewhere in his ninth double. This is the magic of compounding! Also, he never sells. This means his money is doubling every three years and four months with no tax consequences. He gets taxed only when he sells. Under normal conditions, the money compounds until he dies, then it's taxed at a capital gains rate in the far distant future. In Buffett’s case, he’s giving most of his wealth to the Gates’ foundation to benefit society.


Richard Stoyeck’s background includes being a limited partner at Bear Stearns, Senior VP at Lehman Brothers, Kuhn Loeb, Arthur Andersen, and KPMG. Educated at Pace University, NYU, and Harvard.

http://www.stocksatbottom.com
  • Post #2
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  • Aug 24, 2007 9:51am Aug 24, 2007 9:51am
  •  Big Wave Rider
  • Joined Jul 2007 | Status: C.E.O of BWR Investment firm | 4,736 Posts
Brilliant! Great Article, I am printing this one out.
The puzzle is a great riddle to play on your friends as well, I am going to do it tonight, I bet everyone will take the million.
Just Trade It
  • Post #3
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  • Edited at 10:22am Aug 24, 2007 10:21am | Edited at 10:22am
  •  tsnowfx
  • | Joined Jun 2007 | Status: Member | 10 Posts
Very good article. Thanks for posting!

PS. Day 8 has a typo: should be 1.28, not 0.28.

Thanks
  • Post #4
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  • Aug 24, 2007 10:22am Aug 24, 2007 10:22am
  •  Isotonic
  • Joined Jul 2005 | Status: Member | 974 Posts
reminds me of this tale -

There is a story about an Emperor of China who was so excited about the game of chess that he offered the inventor of the game one wish. The inventor replied that he wanted one grain of rice on the first square of the chess board, two grains on the second square, four on the third and so on through the 64th square. The unwitting emperor agreed to the modest request. But two to the 64th power is 18 million trillion grains of rice - more than enough to cover the entire surface of the earth. The Emperor, realizing that he had been duped, had the inventor of the game beheaded.

Btw, I think Bufett bought Berkshire in the sixties, not the seventies and he picked up many great bargains during the 73/4 bear market and aftermath like Washington Post and Geico - "being greedy when others are fearful, and fearful when others are greedy." He still had to buy quality stocks on the cheap - overdone on Mr Market paranoia and not just any old crap before the markets recovered and he compounded his investments through a mix of captial appreciation and dividend reinvestment.

Otherwise a nice article.

  • Post #5
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  • Aug 24, 2007 1:22pm Aug 24, 2007 1:22pm
  •  G-Man
  • | Joined Mar 2006 | Status: Member | 423 Posts
It is hard to explain this to someone who doesn't understand it or can see the potential.

BTW, I would expect to be paid around $21.25m for the months work as you said I would be paid 1c on day 1, 2c on day 2 etc.

That means on the 30th day you would pay me $5m, and on the 31st $10m.

Adding up all the individual days would amount to about $21.25m.

G-Man
  • Post #6
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  • Aug 24, 2007 8:18pm Aug 24, 2007 8:18pm
  •  ForexDragon
  • | Joined Aug 2007 | Status: Member | 16 Posts
Great article man! It's exactly what I have in my signature!
Thanks for sharing, I think I will print it out and keep it in my binder so I can view it more and have it hardwired into my system!

-Dickens
  • Post #7
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  • Aug 24, 2007 8:58pm Aug 24, 2007 8:58pm
  •  Antra
  • Joined Jun 2004 | Status: Member | 387 Posts
Thanks for the article Editor. It is good to read interesting and informative articles and also good to have the message of compounding and the good sense of money management brought to light every now and then.
Thanks!
Cheers
  • Post #8
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  • Aug 24, 2007 9:26pm Aug 24, 2007 9:26pm
  •  johnedoe
  • | Membership Revoked | Joined Dec 2005 | 2,298 Posts
Here is a little extra fuel for the fires of desire...
there are about 221 trading days in a year, sooooo

$1000 compounded at 1% for 221 days comes to $8838.55
$1000 compounded at 2% for 221 days comes to $76,460.58
$1000 compounded at 3% for 221 days comes to $647,667.66
$1000 compounded at 5% for 221 days comes to $43,697,490.47

just some goals to set......
Same Whore .... Different Dress
1
  • Post #9
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  • Aug 24, 2007 11:03pm Aug 24, 2007 11:03pm
  •  CateFul
  • | Joined Jun 2007 | Status: Member | 236 Posts
true but not practical for small accounts.
once you increase your position you also expose yourself to greater risk.
say if you're getting 20 pips a day, you have an account of $500 and leverage is set to 50:1.
so the first day you trade 1 mini lot, you get 20 bucks, the next day you trade 1.1 lots, and so on.
by the 30th day, let's say youre now trading at 10 lots (I made this one up), and get a loss of 20 pips, you will be down $200 on that single day, completely erasing your profit from the previous days.
Take a report.
1
  • Post #10
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  • Aug 24, 2007 11:21pm Aug 24, 2007 11:21pm
  •  johnedoe
  • | Membership Revoked | Joined Dec 2005 | 2,298 Posts
it was only an example of compounding.......

But if you wanted to make 1% per day you would trade 100% margin and you would only need just a tiny bit over 2 pip per day to do it..... NOT ADVISABLE HOWEVER......
Same Whore .... Different Dress
  • Post #11
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  • Aug 24, 2007 11:55pm Aug 24, 2007 11:55pm
  •  Holypendant
  • | Joined Jul 2007 | Status: Member | 431 Posts
i suddenly love compounding.. haha.. the rule of 72 is for compounding of 2 4 8 16 33 etc etc etc.. how to calculate like day 1 u earn 1cent, day2 2 cent day3 3cents n so on?

1 more thing. hw to include MAGIC OF COMPOUNDING to trading?
  • Post #12
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  • Aug 25, 2007 12:24am Aug 25, 2007 12:24am
  •  johnedoe
  • | Membership Revoked | Joined Dec 2005 | 2,298 Posts
if you wanted to make 1% per day you would trade 100% margin and you would only need just a tiny bit over 2 pip per day to do it..... NOT ADVISABLE HOWEVER......
Same Whore .... Different Dress
  • Post #13
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  • Aug 25, 2007 1:29am Aug 25, 2007 1:29am
  •  C.E.O.
  • | Joined Dec 2006 | Status: WTF! | 243 Posts
Quoting CateFul
Disliked
true but not practical for small accounts.
once you increase your position you also expose yourself to greater risk.
say if you're getting 20 pips a day, you have an account of $500 and leverage is set to 50:1.
so the first day you trade 1 mini lot, you get 20 bucks, the next day you trade 1.1 lots, and so on.
by the 30th day, let's say youre now trading at 10 lots (I made this one up), and get a loss of 20 pips, you will be down $200 on that single day, completely erasing your profit from the previous days.No, just the day before
Ignored
Thats not true.
Lets start with 1000.00 to make it easy, and you trade .1 lot (.1%) of capitol.
Assume you make 20 pips($'s) a day on day 1 (2%) increasing lot size to maintain .1%
A day from now, a week, a month or a year from now if you lose 20 pips it is still only 2% of your total account balance as long as you compound.
Assume 20 days a month..
Month 1
Capitol --Lot size
1456.811--0.145681
Month 2
2164.745--0.216474
Month 3
3216.697---0.32167
Month 4
4779.842---0.477984
Month 5
7102.594---0.710259
Month 6
10554.08---1.055408
Month 7
15682.81---1.568281
Month 8
23303.83---2.330383
Month 9
34628.27---3.462827
Month 10
51455.78---5.145578
Month 11
76460.58---7.646058
Month 12
113616.4---11.36164
Month 13
168828---16.8828
Month 14
250870---25.08695
Month 15
372779---37.27789
Month 16
553930---55.39299
Month 17
823111---82.31107
Month 18
1223099---122.3099

Thats one point two MILLION in 18 months just like above. But look at the lot size, 122x10$=1,220 per pip x 20 =24,400. Account balance is 1,223,099, 2% is 24,461. Obviously these figures wont work because of lot sizing but if you increase .1 lot for every 1,000 in capitol it will generally work.

A percentage is a percentage, its all relative.
  • Post #14
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  • Aug 25, 2007 2:15am Aug 25, 2007 2:15am
  •  johnedoe
  • | Membership Revoked | Joined Dec 2005 | 2,298 Posts
Acutally with Oanda you can........you just set up the trading preferances to the percentage you want and your positions automatically compound, also Oanda's position size is in units instead of lots, so you have total flexability in trade size...
Same Whore .... Different Dress
  • Post #15
  • Quote
  • Aug 25, 2007 8:14am Aug 25, 2007 8:14am
  •  ForexDragon
  • | Joined Aug 2007 | Status: Member | 16 Posts
Compounding, Warren Buffett's wealth formula...
if we could all be consistent and actually follow this formula then in about 30 years we could be multi-millionaires too.
Why so many of us struggle with trading is because of fear and greed, the two most powerful elements of human nature..

-Dickens
  • Post #16
  • Quote
  • Aug 25, 2007 10:38am Aug 25, 2007 10:38am
  •  HalifaxCB
  • | Joined Apr 2007 | Status: Ich habe genug | 551 Posts
Perhaps the original author could also balance the article by showing how compunding works in a losing situation. As a limited partner at Bear Sterns, he should have lots of real examples to draw from....
  • Post #17
  • Quote
  • Aug 25, 2007 11:05am Aug 25, 2007 11:05am
  •  johnedoe
  • | Membership Revoked | Joined Dec 2005 | 2,298 Posts
Good point Halifax....it can be a double edged sword.....alot of the time the back edge is sharper
Same Whore .... Different Dress
  • Post #18
  • Quote
  • Aug 25, 2007 12:23pm Aug 25, 2007 12:23pm
  •  Syafi
  • | Joined Aug 2007 | Status: Climbing Peaks Gliding Valleys | 1,601 Posts
this is interesting.......
I sure hope I will use it.
  • Post #19
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  • Aug 25, 2007 4:19pm Aug 25, 2007 4:19pm
  •  hard times
  • | Joined Feb 2007 | Status: Crumbs to Pips | 12 Posts
Ah... Compounding...making your money work for you, or at least giving it a chance, will always give you the sharper edge.
JP (A.K.A. HT)
  • Post #20
  • Quote
  • Aug 25, 2007 6:38pm Aug 25, 2007 6:38pm
  •  SeekingLight
  • Joined Jul 2006 | Status: Charts + PA > * | 3,251 Posts
Quoting johnedoe
Disliked
Acutally with Oanda you can........you just set up the trading preferances to the percentage you want and your positions automatically compound, also Oanda's position size is in units instead of lots, so you have total flexability in trade size...
Ignored
Not really.

I originally thought itwas a nice idea, too, but BS application as I soon found out.

You can still only enter a set pre-fixed stop + % amount and the calculations for the latter are also wrong sometimes. Don't ask me why, maybe it's a bug or something. The point is - you change your stop size by one pip by waiting for 2 seconds and having price change for example or by widening the stop to 10 or 20 or 30 more pips than "default" and it all flies out the window. So it's pretty much a completely and utterly useless feature, since the only SENSIBLE THING to do, to allow a user to enter 2% instead of x units, is not possible.
I submitted this idea to them months ago but nada. Takes a "real" programmer about 2 hours to apply this (Allowing the use of % of account instead of units and rounding the result to the next possible unit size. This could all be done through a simple "frontend" which simply calculates the units for you on the fly in realtime and then submits the order in units instead, but noooooooooooooooo, that'd actually HELP traders, we can't have that..).
Instead you need to keep hacking away at the unit size until you can fit it to your wished for % or always need to have an excel sheet open.

Useless, as I said.

P.S. I recommend thinking in % per week or month, not per day. That's just silly and conforms again with the "oh I need to trade every DAY to make money" mis-thinking. 10 months at 10% = twice your money. That's all anyone needs to know(in their head I mean)about compounding really. For anything fany there's always compounding calculators.
Trust price. Know yourself.
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