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Your exit is more important than your entry?

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  • What is your main entry method?
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  • Post #1
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  • First Post: Edited 8:32am Jun 10, 2013 7:36am | Edited 8:32am
I guess this is a sequel to my thread about managing an open position. I'd like to ask for your advice on opening a position in the first place.

I totally disagree with the common teaching that says your exit is more important than you entry. I've accumulated enough live trading experience to say that your entry is AS CRUCIAL AS your exit. Many of my good trades end up as a loss as the entry was terrible.

To me, a bad entry = big drawdown/repeated SL hit = clouded mind to spot real entry = may hedge the opposite position now that my belief is shaken = big loss of money over time.

To me, a good entry, even though ended being a lost, does give me a satisfaction. I don't to rely on luck on trading, but on skill. And a great entry reflects a great skill of a trader.

Often when I had the general bias right, my stop is hit, or a hedge and martingale is opened, only to see the price went to my original direction, but leaving me behind with a big mess of hedge and martingale. I'm furious at the number of times it has happened to me. It was a stupid entry with even stupider exit.

The other thing that I also notice about making an entry is that a market entry often slips worse than a pending order entry.

Question:

How do you make your entry on your system? Live candle (market entry regardless of time)? Closed candle (market entry but entering only at specific time e.g. at the end of the hour)? Indicator signal (when price crosses your indicator regardless of time)? Pending orders (setting up pending order on where you'd like to enter the market regardless of time)?

Is there really a best method to enter the market regardless of what your trading system is?
Open, exits and MM = Oxygen, Water and Food.

Cant live without any one of them.
.
Entry and exit are important. If your have right entry, but you have wrong exit is bad. Similarly, if you have wrong entry and right exit, you still have bad result. Each parts of the system are important because all these points contribute to little efficiency to overall outcome.

I personally use MM to do entry and exit. I don't use indicators to trade, but I use price action.
some guys think its cute to say exits are all that matters.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
Quoting ~bull.bear~
Entry and exit are important. If your have right entry, but you have wrong exit is bad. Similarly, if you have wrong entry and right exit, you still have bad result. Each parts of the system are important because all these points contribute to little efficiency to overall outcome. I personally use MM to do entry and exit. I don't use indicators to trade, but I use price action.

Well, everyone have a right to their opinion. I am of the opinion that my exit is more important than my entry. My entry for instance can be random but my exit can never be. More so, I like dynamic systems not rigid ones.
As opposed to your style of trading, I use indies (MAs and MACD). The MAs are not used for entry/exits but for knowing the current market phase I am in. My entry and exits are mostly on the MACD.
I'm of the opinion that if you get entry wrong you won't make much money but if you get exit wrong you can lose a lot.
both are important

here is typical trend trading thing picture from today, gbpjpym5, ema 10 + ema 10 H1, 9 buy signals,
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gbpjpym5.png Size: 69 KB
The most important thing is how you manage your trade once opened.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
Quoting Ishtana
I totally disagree with the common teaching that says your exit is more important than you entry. I've accumulated enough live trading experience to say that your entry is AS CRUCIAL AS your exit.
Ishtana... IMHO, the above is the most important of your post and I believe you are correct.
Everyone has a different strategy, a different this or another that.

I also believe that if you stand by your own teachings (as you have demonstrated above)
.... and at that the same, realize that learning is constant

You will find great success.......

All the Best in
all Your Endeavors
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
PS...............

"It's the entry that matters"
"It's the exit that matters"
"Only management after entry matters"

None of it matters if the pieces don't fit
the puzzle ??

?
When the Joker is in the deck.. fear not and play it well
I find exits harder than entries (psychologically). More important not so. Entries and exits do not exist on their own. Since they are dependent, their importance can only be the same. They must be tailored to fit well together. Bad entries directly reduce the possibility of good exits (profits). This is self evident (does anyone really care/dare to immediately enter the market following a coin toss? I think not). Good entries, in turn, directly increase the number of bad exits (losses) one can take at any moment. Trade management only has room to exist and affect trade outcome, assuming the bad exits can somehow be sufficiently mitigated/avoided, which is the same as saying, trade management only makes sense assuming the entries are good (good enough to be managed into minimum break even).
"To hold, you must first open your hand. Let go." - Lao Tzu
  • Post #12
  • Quote
  • Edited 7:46am Jun 11, 2013 4:17am | Edited 7:46am
Quoting hefhem911
{quote} Well, everyone have a right to their opinion. I am of the opinion that my exit is more important than my entry. My entry for instance can be random but my exit can never be. More so, I like dynamic systems not rigid ones. As opposed to your style of trading, I use indies (MAs and MACD). The MAs are not used for entry/exits but for knowing the current market phase I am in. My entry and exits are mostly on the MACD.
Your entry can be random? I find it hard to digest. The purpose of all proper trading system is to find the right entry at the market. With a random entry, you're leaning more towards gambling than analysis. One of my goals in forex is to create profit, and I've learned enough now that in trading NOTHING can be left to chance. The more randomized your every part of trading is, the more risk you introduce to your trading. Every trade must be calculated and analyzed, anything else is gambling. And making a random entry is disregarding your own MAs and MACD isn't it?

Quoting Slim Buffett
{quote} Ishtana... IMHO, the above is the most important of your post and I believe you are correct. Everyone has a different strategy, a different this or another that. I also believe that if you stand by your own teachings (as you have demonstrated above) .... and at that the same, realize that learning is constant You will find great success....... All the Best in all Your Endeavors
Thank you kindly. Likewise to you my friend. I do try to stand by my own teaching because no one else will.
Quoting Ishtana
With a random entry, you're leaning more towards gambling than analysis.
This is where you are wrong. A random entry will teach you how to find the best exit in order to have overall profits.

This is what I said earlier : the most important thing is how you manage the position once entered.

A great reading would be the Ronald Raygun profile ...
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
Quoting nasir.khan
Open, exits and MM = Oxygen, Water and Food. Cant live without any one of them. .

Thatīs it.
Just ignore me. Thanks.
Quoting FerruFx
{quote} This is where you are wrong. A random entry will teach you how to find the best exit in order to have overall profits. This is what I said earlier : the most important thing is how you manage the position once entered. A great reading would be the Ronald Raygun profile ...
Can you define what random entry is? My definition of random entry is when you flip a coin, or make absolutely no analysis whatsoever, then you enter 10 lots on random pair.

That's my definition, and I stand firm on my statement that random entry is gambling.

And "how you manage the position once entered" depends entirely on your entry.
Quoting Ishtana
Can you define what random entry is? My definition of random entry is when you flip a coin
We have the same definition.

Quoting Ishtana
And "how you manage the position once entered" depends entirely on your entry.
Absolutely not. Once entered, you depend on what the market is giving you ... not on what is in your back.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
Quoting FerruFx
{quote} We have the same definition. {quote} Absolutely not. Once entered, you depend on what the market is giving you ... not on what is in your back.
And I would rather stack the probability on my side for the market to give me a profit by making a good entry. By "depending on what the market is giving you", you're trading on hope, not understanding. Again, leaning towards gambling.

Random entry doesn't give a consistent trading system. Your trading plan must include your entry criteria. If you entry criteria is "random", then I don't know how you can make profit consistently.
Quoting Ishtana
Random entry doesn't give a consistent trading system.
I fully agree on this.

My initial post was only to say that it's a good learning process to manage a trade doesn't matter the entry.

Did you read the Ronald Raygun profile I talked in a previous post ? You will see exactly what I meant.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
Why can't they be equally important?
Quoting Ishtana
................. The other thing that I also notice about making an entry is that a market entry often slips worse than a pending order entry...............
That could be due to the fact that the pending order details are already on the broker's server.
A market entry has to leave your computer and travel through the internet before it can be processed.
Only milliseconds most of the time, but it can possibly make a difference to slippage in a fast moving market.
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