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  • #921
  • Jan 15, 2007 11:32am Jan 15, 2007 11:32am
Quoting zarni
I tried numerous ways to take advantage of this but could not for the life of me put this to any good use. Backtesting of numerous ways to use that indicator showed breakeven or slightly better results on balance. I had more success with the other indicators.
-martin
When I first got vantage point, I tried the same thing and quickly came to the same conclusion. However, the neural index can be very usefull in strategies like Warthog's where it can be used as a verification of another trade set up.
  • #922
  • Jan 15, 2007 12:04pm Jan 15, 2007 12:04pm
Quoting warthog
I have used a system I developed with VP.
It is a buy/forget system.

Basically, a 2 period Moving average is constructed.
For Longs.
If the close is less than the 2MA and NN is 1 and the predicted MA5>MA10, then go long.

A target profit is set and a stop loss is set.
Additionally, a band is set and an offset selected for entry.

The TP, SL , band , and offset have been selected as a function of the
day of week.

I am going to attached the Tradestation system testing files for
both the GBPUSD and EURUSD pairs. (the detailed settings are included
in the tradestation report)

For optimal profits the win percents are in the 60% range, and both
systems generate about 8K per year.

What I would like to see is a history file from the new version 7.0 for either of these pairs.

enjoy
wart
Hey Warthog,
I haven't yet attempted it but you should be able to fairly easily export it all since it is held in SQL. I used to export from directly from mdb to csv to backtest in mt on 6.4 vp
  • #923
  • Jan 16, 2007 11:13am Jan 16, 2007 11:13am
Anyone get an e-mail from VP on upgrading to their new version 7. The basic upgrade is $495? Less that a year ago I spent a lot of money on version 6.4 and now they want me to spend another $495? It should be free!
  • #924
  • Jan 16, 2007 11:38am Jan 16, 2007 11:38am
After thinking about this for a while, I'd like to ask:

Where can you go and get a "free" upgrade on anything of significant value? Cable TV upgrade? Internet connection upgrade? Order a new vehicle and get free upgrades? How about a free upgrade from Coach class to First Class when you fly? I just bought a new Dell notebook computer and didn't get any free upgardes.

Get my point?


Quoting ForexMike
Anyone get an e-mail from VP on upgrading to their new version 7. The basic upgrade is $495? Less that a year ago I spent a lot of money on version 6.4 and now they want me to spend another $495? It should be free!
  • #925
  • Jan 16, 2007 11:47am Jan 16, 2007 11:47am
Quoting BeachBum
After thinking about this for a while, I'd like to ask:

Where can you go and get a "free" upgrade on anything of significant value? Cable TV upgrade? Internet connection upgrade? Order a new vehicle and get free upgrades? How about a free upgrade from Coach class to First Class when you fly? I just bought a new Dell notebook computer and didn't get any free upgardes.

Get my point?
How about the FREE upgrade to microsoft's new windows VISTA operating system!...........NOT!!

LOL....sorry, couldn't resist.
  • #926
  • Jan 16, 2007 5:46pm Jan 16, 2007 5:46pm
Point taken,

Perhaps I should have said for a minimal cost. $500 is not minimal particularly when not too long ago I spend a large sum of money already for the product.

I will not pay for the upgrade, I will use what I have currently...

I am sure all of you got the e-mail to upgrade for $3,000 and get all the markets....next week, that price will be cut in half, so you might as well wait...


Quoting baddison
How about the FREE upgrade to microsoft's new windows VISTA operating system!...........NOT!!

LOL....sorry, couldn't resist.
  • #927
  • Jan 16, 2007 6:49pm Jan 16, 2007 6:49pm
Quoting ForexMike
Anyone get an e-mail from VP on upgrading to their new version 7. The basic upgrade is $495? Less that a year ago I spent a lot of money on version 6.4 and now they want me to spend another $495? It should be free!
$495 is a bargin for VP 7.0. They would be an idiot to give out 7.0 as a free upgrade to past members.
  • #928
  • Jan 17, 2007 2:57am Jan 17, 2007 2:57am
Quoting ForexMike
Point taken,

Perhaps I should have said for a minimal cost. $500 is not minimal particularly when not too long ago I spend a large sum of money already for the product.

I will not pay for the upgrade, I will use what I have currently...

I am sure all of you got the e-mail to upgrade for $3,000 and get all the markets....next week, that price will be cut in half, so you might as well wait...
I got an Email a week ago saying that all 90 markets are 895.00 and that includes the upgrade.???????? When dealing with a used car dealer ............
  • #929
  • Jan 17, 2007 5:37am Jan 17, 2007 5:37am
It's my understanding that the cost of upgrading to VP v7.0 depends on the number of markets a person currently has. The previous 90 markets have now been grouped together into 10 categories. VP's intention is to get their software users to upgrade to complete categories. In my case, I only use VP to trade the Forex, but I did not have all the Forex markets. When I upgrade, I will have all the Forex markets in one complete category, but the price for me will be different than someone who already has all the Forex markets. Simple math............not smoke and mirrors.
  • #930
  • Jan 19, 2007 1:56pm Jan 19, 2007 1:56pm
Today I upgraded to Vantage Point version 7.0:

Just one word......................AWESOME!
  • #931
  • Jan 19, 2007 2:10pm Jan 19, 2007 2:10pm
Have to say VP 7.0 is slightly annoying in the following points:
1 - changed old indicators (strength for instance which i use)
2 - SQL server (why they hell they need to install a full fledged relational database engine that is a well known memory hog for something as simple as storing historical data is beyond me)
3 - can't scroll easily between markets (pgup pgdn did the trick easily...now it's all clickety click)

Sorry but this is turning into bloatware ala MSFT. Haven't tested the markets yet but the feel is definitely worse for me.
  • #932
  • Jan 19, 2007 8:46pm Jan 19, 2007 8:46pm
Quoting zarni
Have to say VP 7.0 is slightly annoying in the following points:
1 - changed old indicators (strength for instance which i use)
2 - SQL server (why they hell they need to install a full fledged relational database engine that is a well known memory hog for something as simple as storing historical data is beyond me)
3 - can't scroll easily between markets (pgup pgdn did the trick easily...now it's all clickety click)

Sorry but this is turning into bloatware ala MSFT. Haven't tested the markets yet but the feel is definitely worse for me.
Ditto the above :-( Nice new features, but this version is very very bloated. The indicators changed due to the number of markets involved now, they appear to be a bit more accurate based on some testing so far.

David
  • #933
  • Jan 19, 2007 11:54pm Jan 19, 2007 11:54pm
Simulation of VP Parameters

For the fear of bloatware, I have attempted to sim vp parameters.

For each of the pairs, VP (6.4) furnishes the following:
Predicted High, Predicted Low
5 Period Moving Average, 10 Period Moving Average
Predicted 5 Period Moving Average, Predicted 10 Period Moving Average,
Short Term Trend , Medium Term Trend,
Neural Index, and a Strength variable.

VP provides general instructions on how to use the data, but no specific trading system and advises to “cherry pick” the best parameters.

With a lot of effort, I developed two systems that seemed reasonable.

The drawback of these systems were it took a lot of maintenance time and the drawdown was almost unacceptable.

The development or refinement of systems was time-consuming.

I have found that one may simulate the VP parameters. This approach (using tradestation) allows for easier backtesting and testing of trading strategies.

Simulation:
For the Predicted High, use the floor trader pivot R1.
For the Predicted Low, use the floor trader pivot S1.
For the Predicted 5 period average, use the hull moving average.
For the Predicted 10 period average, use the hull moving average.
For the short term trend, use the difference between the predicted MA and the moving average.
For the medium term trend use the difference between the predict ma and the moving average.
For the Neural Index, compare a 3 period EMA and a simple moving average. If the EMA is greater than the MA , the NI is 1, otherwise 0.

I have not simulated the strength since I don’t use it in my systems.

I have experimented with these simulated VP numbers, they appear to meet my expectations. Attached are the tradestation results for the EURUSD pair for two of the systems.

In my lab, the following are pending:
Use the GBPUSD pair.
Vary the moving average period,…instead of 5 and 10.
Combine the parameters for the two pairs.
Can the simulated data be used for different times…4 hour, 1 hour, weekly???
Straddle, Strangle??/

If anyone has a system in mind, I shall put in my lab pending work.

Also attached is an Strategy that just uses the two trend values, with moving average periods of 13 and 23. 40K over 4 years…but large drawdown. It is still in progress.

enjoy
Attached File(s)
File Type: zip vpNueralIndexSystem.zip   576 KB | 351 downloads
File Type: zip vpSimNueralIndexSystem.zip   548 KB | 325 downloads
File Type: zip vpSmattering.zip   613 KB | 303 downloads
File Type: zip vpSimSmattering.zip   601 KB | 331 downloads
File Type: zip vpSimExperiment.zip   493 KB | 329 downloads
  • #934
  • Jan 20, 2007 4:35am Jan 20, 2007 4:35am
hi,
does anyone know if i am right in saying market technologies will have the vp software and books back and give me a refund?
i have not registered with them yet and would be able to get it back to them within the 15 days trial,
obviously i cannot contact them today, an unforseen reason has ocurred and do not need the software
much appreciated,
gb
  • #935
  • Jan 20, 2007 9:46am Jan 20, 2007 9:46am
Howdy VP traders,

I have been reading the post over the last week or so and have to say I'm shocked and amazed over what I am reading. Why are you guys making things so complicated. I have been using VP since Sept first with 6.4 and now 7.0 and I have to say it keeps on getting better. I have been back testing using my SIMPLE trading method of "4 out of 5" that I have posted here previously and with 6.4 was running a respectable 70% winners but now with 7.0 I have been running over 10% better @ 80-85%.

And when I mean SIMPLE I MEAN SIMPLE when I download the data for the day I analyze the crosses I follow place my trades @ the Market set my StopLoss (a must) and set my 2 limits to start. THEN you ready for this I go and harass my family(just kidding). To me its a true set it and forget it system . I then will do the same thing all over again the next data download. I don't touch it till the next day because it doesn't matter how U trade make a trading plan and stick to the plan.

This last week I grabbed 650pips with 3 crosses using this method. I showed a guy in Australia this method and he just texted me that he has captured 3,500 pips since he started using this "4 out of 5" method. I am not saying that you need to use my method do something because if you don't I'll be waiting on the other side of Ur trade

Fellow Pip Hunter

Bill
"When there is no peril in the fight there is no glory in the triumph."
  • #936
  • Jan 20, 2007 11:26am Jan 20, 2007 11:26am
I have to agree with williamk. I don't understand why some of you traders are making this soooooooo complicated. Maybe I'm just too simple. I don't look that "deeply" at the software. "SQL server", "bloatware", click instead of scroll...............what are you guys talking about? I'm looking for good results with use on a simple system. I have that. So does williamk. So do many others. 80-85% succcess with a "set & forget" system? What more do you want?


Quoting williamk
Howdy VP traders,

I have been reading the post over the last week or so and have to say I'm shocked and amazed over what I am reading. Why are you guys making things so complicated. I have been using VP since Sept first with 6.4 and now 7.0 and I have to say it keeps on getting better. I have been back testing using my SIMPLE trading method of "4 out of 5" that I have posted here previously and with 6.4 was running a respectable 70% winners but now with 7.0 I have been running over 10% better @ 80-85%.

And when I mean SIMPLE I MEAN SIMPLE when I download the data for the day I analyze the crosses I follow place my trades @ the Market set my StopLoss (a must) and set my 2 limits to start. THEN you ready for this I go and harass my family(just kidding). To me its a true set it and forget it system . I then will do the same thing all over again the next data download. I don't touch it till the next day because it doesn't matter how U trade make a trading plan and stick to the plan.

This last week I grabbed 650pips with 3 crosses using this method. I showed a guy in Australia this method and he just texted me that he has captured 3,500 pips since he started using this "4 out of 5" method. I am not saying that you need to use my method do something because if you don't I'll be waiting on the other side of Ur trade

Fellow Pip Hunter

Bill
  • #937
  • Jan 20, 2007 1:03pm Jan 20, 2007 1:03pm
BeachBum, williamK...KUDOS!!!

"Keeping it simple" works like a charm!
  • #938
  • Jan 20, 2007 1:36pm Jan 20, 2007 1:36pm
I just purchased Vp and am waiting for delivery Mon. Any tips or help would be welcome.
  • #939
  • Edited 2:30pm Jan 20, 2007 2:13pm | Edited 2:30pm
Quoting warthog
Simulation of VP Parameters

For the fear of bloatware, I have attempted to sim vp parameters.

For each of the pairs, VP (6.4) furnishes the following:
Predicted High, Predicted Low
5 Period Moving Average, 10 Period Moving Average
Predicted 5 Period Moving Average, Predicted 10 Period Moving Average,
Short Term Trend , Medium Term Trend,
Neural Index, and a Strength variable.

VP provides general instructions on how to use the data, but no specific trading system and advises to “cherry pick” the best parameters.

With a lot of effort, I developed two systems that seemed reasonable.

The drawback of these systems were it took a lot of maintenance time and the drawdown was almost unacceptable.

The development or refinement of systems was time-consuming.

I have found that one may simulate the VP parameters. This approach (using tradestation) allows for easier backtesting and testing of trading strategies.

Simulation:
For the Predicted High, use the floor trader pivot R1.
For the Predicted Low, use the floor trader pivot S1.
For the Predicted 5 period average, use the hull moving average.
For the Predicted 10 period average, use the hull moving average.
For the short term trend, use the difference between the predicted MA and the moving average.
For the medium term trend use the difference between the predict ma and the moving average.
For the Neural Index, compare a 3 period EMA and a simple moving average. If the EMA is greater than the MA , the NI is 1, otherwise 0.

I have not simulated the strength since I don’t use it in my systems.

I have experimented with these simulated VP numbers, they appear to meet my expectations. Attached are the tradestation results for the EURUSD pair for two of the systems.

In my lab, the following are pending:
Use the GBPUSD pair.
Vary the moving average period,…instead of 5 and 10.
Combine the parameters for the two pairs.
Can the simulated data be used for different times…4 hour, 1 hour, weekly???
Straddle, Strangle??/

If anyone has a system in mind, I shall put in my lab pending work.

Also attached is an Strategy that just uses the two trend values, with moving average periods of 13 and 23. 40K over 4 years…but large drawdown. It is still in progress.

enjoy
I have spent a great deal of time reading FF forums, VP, James 16 both public and private. Everywhere I have found knowledgeable giving people! Thanks to one and all. I scalp! 5min charts and I usually use the tick chart as an indicatror for entry/exit. There have been many statements against such a risky business. I have found it both fun and painful. AND lucrative! Will I continue this way I do not know. But for now it "fits" me and it works. There are some cautions that need to be put in place. I will lay out what I use if anyone is interested. If not... The first thing I use is trend. My opinion is that a pair is always trending. That statement got your attention if nothing else! Many disagree strongly. I find trends on every time frame for that pair. I use a variation of the "turtles". I have had VP for almost a year now and from time to time my frustration lead me to turn it off. But I paid for it. So I turn it back on again beacause I also paid for a year of CSI data. I use my finger on the mouse and my finger as my ONLY stop loss most often. I spend 12 hours a day infront of my computer trading, watching, worrying, laughing, playing pakman, watching movies (and the screen). All the while wondering why there are so many admonitions against day trading? Most of my weeks are 4 digit profits, if not 5 and I usually only trade GBP/USD and GBP/JPY. My slogan has become: "In the beginning was the word and the word was motion". I do not use an automated system because I do not think it is possible to automate a system that is trying to predict human emotion. With the current level of data and low tech level of our computers. The human mind handles millions of actions a minute. No currently availble "off the shelf" computer can get close to that level of action. The human "interface" is rediculously slow compared to my DELL. By the time a computer is as fast as a person Battle Star Galactica will most likely be a reality! While human emotion can be predicted it is a very spontaneous affair and a very changeable one. The markets are a reflection of human emotion.
I do not analyze charts I evaluate them! Technical analysis is what John Murphy does. I will never write a pgm for a new indicator! When I look at a chart I look for something of value to me! If I can't find it I look else where. There will always be a trend! Because there will always be a difference of opinion amongst the millions that makeup this planet! Thanks to one and all again I have enjoyed your contributions greatly.
  • #940
  • Jan 20, 2007 2:23pm Jan 20, 2007 2:23pm
hk334...

Your post is interesting for a variety of reasons. However, the following statement almost seems "wreckless". What will you do if someday you loose your internet connection while in a trade that does NOT have a S/L? Just the thought of having a trading account emptied in this way makes me break out in a cold sweat...........

Quoting hk334
I use my finger on the mouse and my finger as my ONLY stop loss most often.
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