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Are they any successful day trader 5min chart?

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  • First Post: May 17, 2011 12:33pm May 17, 2011 12:33pm
Are they any successful and consistently profitable day trader on very small time scale here 5min?

Is there any legendary day traders anyone know of?
Quoting jerryyap
Are they any successful and consistently profitable day trader on very small time scale here 5min?

Is there any legendary day traders anyone know of?
Paul Rotter definitely. But I think he just trades the orderbook in the futures market.

Paul Tudor Jones is I think also pretty short term. At least it seems like from his documentary.
Quoting jerryyap
Are they any successful and consistently profitable day trader on very small time scale here 5min?

Is there any legendary day traders anyone know of?
Loads of people trade off 5 minutes successfully. Not as many as who don't, though.
Gone to a better place
dont look at timeframes with that mindset.

price has no time frames

if you pull up a chart what price is doing in the daily, hourly, 15 min its doing the same thing in the 5 minute

does the quote appear 1.4200 every where?

the only dirrence is the guesswork or how your mind measures

my mind likes hourly order but i trade of the 5 minute.

it is less risky than predicting where price might be in an hour.
if youre wrong how many hours will you spend trouble shooting that trade?
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
Quoting the redlion
dont look at timeframes with that mindset.

price has no time frames

if you pull up a chart what price is doing in the daily, hourly, 15 min its doing the same thing in the 5 minute

does the quote appear 1.4200 every where?

the only dirrence is the guesswork or how your mind measures

my mind likes hourly order but i trade of the 5 minute.

it is less risky than predicting where price might be in an hour.
if youre wrong how many hours will you spend trouble shooting that trade?

Thanks to all those who shared their experience.

However, after trying Day Trading off 5 mins and 1 min chart and counter check with higher time frame of 1hr, 4hr and even daily chart for bigger picture trend direction and for locating the stronger support/resistance, I can say that day trading on anything less than 15 min is very difficult to make money and very taxing on our health.

The signals of indicators from smaller time frames are highly unreliable and they changes very rapidly especially in forex.

This is my opinion. And this is the reason I started this thread to ask does anyone saw with their own eyes a day trader who trade this very small time frame and still make money consistently.

Some say, making money day trading is a myth. The idea of the ideal do not hold position overnight is good (not subjected to how market react when we are watching it) but the reality is the opposite.

Secondly, regarding putting on stop loss:
I have heard that there are day traders who trade 1 min or 5 mins charts do not have a stop loss in their positions since they are watching it by the minute. Anyone have tried this? I've this same thinking but when time to exit, it is very difficult to implement exit at a loss psychologically without we put in our stop loss in advance. Ended up with "hope" market will reverse the next hour later.

Thirdly, regarding the drawdown:
I notice during off peak hours the market will usually creep slowly and reverse on you. And we know peak hours for forex is only about 2 hours in a day. So this slow retracing will usually eat into our paper profits and even resulted in a loss if our day trading (with a much smaller stop loss compare to swing trade) ended up becomes swing trades. Any opinion on this?

Please share your experience in day trading and your pointer to the reliable day trading courses out there. I suspect those who teaches day trading on 1 min or 5 min chart are not making money themselves with the techniques they propounded.

Thanks.
Quoting jerryyap
Are they any successful and consistently profitable day trader on very small time scale here 5min?

Is there any legendary day traders anyone know of?
from a technical standpoint a candle pattern on 1 timeframe means exactly the same as on another. Pin Bar, Outside/inside bars ect have the same bearing over all timeframes and the risk rewards are the similiar (usually better if you get the right trade and can hold it). Tne spread however will have a greater impact and the mindset is usually very different for the fast pace vs slower day to day holding and waiting.

One thing I have noticed trading the 15 min charts is that my position size doesnt change much. I have a psych barrier that only allows me a certain lot size even if the SL placement allows for double that size for the same risk. Not sure why but it might have to do with the times I do try to venture out of my comfort zone and increase the market doesnt break aswell as I was looking for and subsequently I get a little freaked. 9 times out of 10 though I act upon emotion and the market head the way I had wanted, but I on the side line nursing a sore head (from slapping it).

I can trade the majority of timeframes understanding that candle patterns and pattern breakouts are very similiar, just have to get used to taking profit or having you SL hit a little earlier. Greed can also be a killer but if your in position early you can enjoy a pretty sweet ride on a new or existing trend.

RT
Quoting jerryyap
Thanks to all those who shared their experience.

However, after trying Day Trading off 5 mins and 1 min chart and counter check with higher time frame of 1hr, 4hr and even daily chart for bigger picture trend direction and for locating the stronger support/resistance, I can say that day trading on anything less than 15 min is very difficult to make money and very taxing on our health.

The signals of indicators from smaller time frames are highly unreliable and they changes very rapidly especially in forex.

This is my opinion. And this is the...
My own opinion: it is extremely hard to make any money in day trading, cause of the trading costs. You really gotta be a one of a kind trader to be able to consistently beat the trading costs and make money.

That's why I personally only trade higher time-frames. And anyways, a question you need to ask yourself: you wanna trade the whole day to make money? Or you wanna enjoy your life while making money? I go for the latter.
Quoting Custos
My own opinion: it is extremely hard to make any money in day trading, cause of the trading costs. You really gotta be a one of a kind trader to be able to consistently beat the trading costs and make money.

That's why I personally only trade higher time-frames. And anyways, a question you need to ask yourself: you wanna trade the whole day to make money? Or you wanna enjoy your life while making money? I go for the latter.
depends on the end result returns. if you can profit faster, then faster it is. yes, i did say "if".
Jerry, You may find this thread of some help ?

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=291669

Good Luck
Quoting jerryyap
Are they any successful and consistently profitable day trader on very small time scale here 5min?

Is there any legendary day traders anyone know of?
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
Quoting Razor_trader
from a technical standpoint a candle pattern on 1 timeframe means exactly the same as on another. Pin Bar, Outside/inside bars ect have the same bearing over all timeframes and the risk rewards are the similiar (usually better if you get the right trade and can hold it). Tne spread however will have a greater impact and the mindset is usually very different for the fast pace vs slower day to day holding and waiting.

One thing I have noticed trading the 15 min charts is that my position size doesnt change much. I have a psych barrier that only...
Great post Razor it is just a shame so few here on FF seem to take any notice or even bother to try to understand what price action traders do day in day out.

I too trade m15 using higher timeframes for confirmation of direction, I spend less than an hour a day looking for trades and grab 15 - 40 pips a trade normally.

Like you I can understand every timeframe in the same way but trading the higher ones messes with my mind more.

If I want more trades in a day I drop to m5.

One good trade a day is all you need.

I got involved here to learn and help people, most people it seems just want to keep asking for the holy grail without doing the work involved.

Sorry for the rant I guess I have outgrown FF.
in my opinion, the only difference between the 1 minute and trading of the daily is the amount of gambling you are doing

and stop losses are bad for your account, many people will disagree but i have read and learned from market makers and brokers hunt the stops to get a better average on big block of orders, they scalp them as to implement risk control on their end, big players do.

as stop losses are triggered they cascade the prices up creating spikes that are easily consumed by liquid hungry block orders.

back to the original view.

if you put a trade in , looking at the daily.
that means that you looked at the overal direction of the market and you have placed a bet of where you THINK the market might go in the next 24 hrs

that is 1440 1 minute candles
that is 288 5 minute candles
24 1 hour candles

you get the drift, you are betting and predicting. that is not so good.
if you are good at estimating direction why not use that to take advantage of price weakness on the lower time frames to scale your way in and snowball your profit.

if you read and bet, you get burn 95% fail at reading betting and waiting for the market to take out their stops

you see, when you put a trade you need to look at
direction, speed, momentum, key areas, be aware of where the market is at the point of the trade.

but even with all this once you buy either the market goes up or it goes down
once you sell the market either goes up or down

what do you do and what is your MO in either case is what determines your success rate.

i am only a novice strategist but i am working on mastering this.
then truly can i be a technical analyst and not a gambler
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
jag, if you are making money then your probably have outgrown ff. sounds like it's time for you to start a journal.

redlion, i look forward to the day you realize that real traders do in fact use stop losses and make profit. some day you will average down the failing trade that nukes your account, and that day you will wonder how it all went so wrong after all these weeks/months of pip pip pip.

i'm so sick of this no stoploss trade-on-faith nonsense and wish someone would come along and show you how a retail trader makes serious money. anyone can make pips averaging-down. IT'S THE MOST ROOKIE OF STRATEGIES, and the most dangerous and most guaranteed to fail.

some day you will run completely out of margin. maybe not today. maybe not tomorrow. but some day. or the day will come where you begin to start cutting some of these losing trades off and set them free... but it won't stop at 1 or 2 cut losses, it will be a string of losers you need to cut to save your account. and at that point you will have wasted all of your time building up an account that you just managed to butcher all the way back down to nothing, all because you believed stoplosses are bad.

losing your account is bad. not profiting is bad. you might as well martingale your account and just get it over with. averaging-down is just another spin on martingaling. that string of losers is going to get you, unless you are just that lucky to always forever be with the trend.

using no stoplosses is about the most ill-advised trap ever devised. you don't have billions at your disposal to forever average-down, i'm sure. so cut it out. if you really can't see why you are destined to fail in a very big way some day, then you can't be helped.

seriously, any rookie can average-down and save a whole bunch of trades. investors do this all the time in the stock market, thinking they are just getting a bargain. if you think all profitable traders average-down and don't use stoplosses then you are gravely mistaken. stop drinking the koolaid.
Quoting nubcake
jag, if you are making money then your probably have outgrown ff....
how wrong you are nubcake

averaging down needs to be strategic, the way you snowball in needs to be strategic,

always actively manage losses
let me give you an example of what im talking about. using you money strategically is one of the best things that has happened to my trading.

1 lot scout if the trade goes against you 100 pips you are at a loss of 10.00 if on mini lot.

now if you are trend riding and only snowballing on profit 1,2,3,5,8,1,3

you are actively in 32 lots in the trade, using the money foraged as cushion for the next snow ball.

1 lot with 100 pips against you = 10.00
32 lots in with 100 in your favor= 302.00

sounds like a good strategy to me

now if you want to have a zero loss book.

if you are caught against the trend, the market always, retraces, calculating the retracement and entering a good rescue, getting out quickly and swiftly at break even.

what are you talking about?
i want you to give me a better strategy. or show me how you the pro does it.

i used to put stop losses, always hit before market turned my way
if i put them away from volatility i was still a lot of $ underwater before stoped out.

no thanks, you can call it rookie or martigailing, as long as i know how to use it, and able to get out b/e even after 100 plus pips against my position.

i find that better, trading is about flexibility
all we can control is our risk

hold, press, scale back, liquidate or flip
that is all we can control

use it wisely
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
Quoting the redlion
if you are caught against the trend, the market always, retraces, calculating the retracement and entering a good rescue, getting out quickly and swiftly at break even.

what are you talking about?
i want you to give me a better strategy. or show me how you the pro does it.
blah blah blah.

blah blah blah.

good luck when the market doesn't retrace as far as you need it to and then takes-off again in the direction most painful to your account.

some day. not today. not tomorrow. but it's coming. and you will finally understand.
Quoting jerryyap
Are they any successful and consistently profitable day trader on very small time scale here 5min?

Is there any legendary day traders anyone know of?
I use 5/15 minute timeframes. Shorter timeframes are my bread and butter.
Nothing worth having is easy.
Quoting Patience
I use 5/15 minute timeframes. Shorter timeframes are my bread and butter.
'Allo, 'Allo, same here.
"The Only Limit, is the One that you Set Yourself"
Quoting Shabs19
'Allo, 'Allo, same here.
Alright treacle ... nice one ... lol


Quoting Razor_trader
I have a psych barrier that only allows me a certain lot size
I have this problem. Nice to know I'm not the only one. I'm working on it .... still .....
Nothing worth having is easy.
Quoting the redlion
how wrong you are nubcake

averaging down needs to be strategic, the way you snowball in needs to be strategic,

always actively manage losses
let me give you an example of what im talking about. using you money strategically is one of the best things that has happened to my trading.

1 lot scout if the trade goes against you 100 pips you are at a loss of 10.00 if on mini lot.

now if you are trend riding and only snowballing on profit 1,2,3,5,8,1,3

you are actively in 32 lots in the trade, using the money foraged as cushion for the next...
There is no long term future for averaging down. At some point you will hit the run that gives you a margin call. If you have ever done testing over a 10 year period you will always find retracements that exceed the wildest dreams and travel that bit too far and grants the other side of the market your account. Dont trust me, download a simple program or better still program it into MT4 and you will see. Regardless of the time frame, there is no knowing when your initial order is going to be the biggest mistake of your life. There is no knowing that your initial order backed up with that 2nd order, backed by that 3rd order is now 1000 pips off the mark and still diving. Your initial position might be 1000 pips, your second 600 pips and 3 and most recent only 300 and you are now looking at a bargain price to get in at so you open your 4th position. Your average loss will be 400 or so pips but for every point backwards it is now costing your 4 points on account of 4 orders. Where do you draw the line. At what point do you say your wrong and bite the bullet and close. If you cant then your not ready, that simple.

If you dont believe me then so be it. I did my initial training in forex a good number of years ago and was privledge to listen to someone who built a million dollar account in the same fashion you are speaking only to hand it back in 3 weeks. His averaging down worked great, it might have been slightly risky given the gains but still it failed. You talk about broker stop hunting well theres a bigger risk to your averaging down and that is being on the wrong side of a Black Swan event. I would rather my broker hunt my stops every now and then taking my .5-1% than to have no SL in place and the market plunge 5-10%. You know what dumb money does in those instances, they buy/sell more because it is now a bargain, and then it falls more with no retracements and you buy more until your holding on for dear life.

You wont get far trading this way and if you do dont play it as skill. Talk about gambling, do you go to the roulette wheel and after 6-7 red state that the next one has to be black. If you answered no then why approach the forex market with the mindset that this retracement has to move in my favour today, surely it has too...


RT
i'll give the rebuttal that i anticipate is coming...

"oh but this method has been taught by a tier 1 blah blah. this is how pro's trade. 50%. snowball. yadda yadda".

these guys do not get the difference between having the monies of a country backing you versus a damn retail account. they live in their own little fantasy world where they can do what they like as long as they have faith.

it's beyond head-scratching. it makes me both a little sad, and a little happy. sad that some just don't get it, but happy that i do.

they don't get that although they are making pips day after day that they actually don't know how to trade. the humble pie is going to taste foul since it will have gone off by the time they have to eat it.
Quoting Razor_trader
There is no long term future for averaging down. At some point you will hit the run that gives you a margin call. If you have ever done testing over a 10 year period you will always find retracements that exceed the wildest dreams and travel that bit too far and grants the other side of the market your account. Dont trust me, download a simple program or better still program it into MT4 and you will see. Regardless of the time frame, there is no knowing when your initial order is going to be the biggest mistake of your life. There is no knowing...
didnt finish reading your whole reply, but i all i have to say,

is that it is a strategy and like all strategies needs to be done using your BRAIN first and foremost and within your risk apetite.

as i mentioned before, one can start averaging up using a scout and only adding when in profit, checking for momentum change to take chips off the table.

if you rescued 1 then 2 and now you are 100 pips underwater,
i would have considered flipping a long time ago.
or you determine your position is dead in the waters and its better to kill it than to risk a big loss


FLEXIBILITY, ADAPTABILITY, and never UNDERESTIMATE the market
always LOOK TO SEE IF YOU ARE TRADING CHANGED PICTURES.


the market cannot be read once, set and forget,
ACTIVELY MANAGE RISK

if you dont agree then dont do it, if done correctly can be very powerful
AVT INVENIAM VIAM AVT FACIAM
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