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On the topic of BS in trading forums...

  • #61
  • Jun 2, 2010 4:03pm Jun 2, 2010 4:03pm
Quoting hanover
I don't understand what would motivate a profitable trader to criticize the efforts of others; why he wouldn't simply be content with his own success.
I'm not criticizing your efforts, quite the contrary, I would never criticize anyone for trying to make it in this business.

Quoting hanover
I've never seen you post a chart, or outline any part of your winning formula, on the forum, other than vague references to pyramiding. Yet you've spoken out against the methods outlined by Jacko and Darkstar, whom I understand are two of the most successful traders that generously contribute their time and knowledge here. And, if I may attempt to anticipate your response, they've offered every bit as much proof of their profitability as you (or anybody else) has.
I'm not attempting to sell or promote anything so there's no need for me to prove anything, and sorry but I don't offer my trading strategy to anyone for any amount of money, I don't know one genuinely profitable trader who would or who would need to come to that! I think most experienced traders know that in order to become successful in this business people need to do pretty much what you've attempted to do for the past 4 years, discover on their own, develop their own style, with perhaps a gentle steer in the right direction if/when they're going off course. Mentoring, which was discussed at length in another thread, can be a very personal tailor-made relationship rather than the commercialized mass-education which vendors seem to try to market. There seems little point in revisiting that particular debate though!

Quoting hanover
I may well have finally 'made it' as a forex trader
Congratulations, sincerely, I have the utmost respect for anyone who has made it, it's not an easy business to get a handle on but it's extremely satisfying when it finally does 'click' and all come together.

Quoting hanover
You seem to assume that, just because somebody doesn't employ the same 'key' ingredients that you do - whatever those might be - they are guaranteed to be unsuccessful.
Again, quite the contrary, I've said numerous times there are many many ways to profit from this market, no-one has the monopoly on profitable trading strategies or approaches, in fact I mentioned that exact point in a previous post in this thread ('one man's poison'). If anything you're the one making authoritative-sounding statements about what works and what doesn't work!

Quoting hanover
If you're somehow implying that I'll be joining the list of unscrupulous vendors that sell dubious or untested forex systems and EAs, well I'm afraid that's completely untrue, and I believe that an apology would be appropriate.
David
Well I distinctly remember you saying more than once that EA's aren't profitable, and that trading profitably and consistently involves an element of 'unconscious competence'. If you're now saying you've found a way to define and can that element, package it, and then market it for sale then well done, it's something which has eluded some of the most respected trading educators!

In my opinion however there isn't a system, strategy, or approach which can be easily transferred from trader to trader, true mentorship goes far beyond the commercial stuff we see being touted around forums and on websites. Maybe your offering is different, I don't know.
  • #62
  • Jun 2, 2010 4:39pm Jun 2, 2010 4:39pm
Quoting pipmutt
.....
Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Again, quite the contrary, I've said numerous times there are many many ways to profit from this market, no-one has the monopoly on profitable trading strategies or approaches, in fact I mentioned that exact point in a previous post in this thread ('one man's poison').
Fair enough, point taken.

I'm not attempting to sell or promote anything so there's no need for me to prove anything, and sorry but I don't offer my trading strategy to anyone for any amount of money, I don't know one genuinely profitable trader who would or who would need to come to that!
That is the single biggest reason why I would take a forex trader's opinions seriously.

Well I distinctly remember you saying more than once that EA's aren't profitable, and that trading profitably and consistently involves an element of 'unconscious competence'. If you're now saying you've found a way to define and can that element, package it, and then market it for sale then well done, it's something which has eluded some of the most respected trading educators!
 Just to repeat, it is NOT my intention to market systems or EAs. If I ever do devise an EA that's profitable, I'll be selfishly keeping it for my own personal use.

In my opinion however there isn't a system, strategy, or approach which can be easily transferred from trader to trader, true mentorship goes far beyond the commercial stuff we see being touted around forums and on websites.
Agreed, that has also been my experience (to date).
  • #63
  • Jun 2, 2010 4:51pm Jun 2, 2010 4:51pm
So what? After thousands of fantastic posts he's contributed at no cost to anyone, he deserves something in return, and if he can make $ at it, more power to him.

Quoting markmm
Another one going commercial, good luck, are any of the threads in this forum not geared towards starting some commercial venture.
  • #64
  • Jun 2, 2010 4:55pm Jun 2, 2010 4:55pm
Quoting hanover
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Likewise.

On reflection perhaps I was a little harsh for which I unreservedly apologise, you've always appeared genuinely helpful and have held your own with reason and logic when your opinions were challenged, I suppose it was the shock of seeing the least likely going commercial that made me throw up my hands in despair! I really do hope you and your business partner have something worthwhile to offer, there's a void that needs filling in the education arena, an awful lot of novices could benefit from genuine help and guidance.

You've always struck me as someone with integrity so I'll wish you well in your endeavour, I don't believe you're the type to take advantage of gullible novices the way some vendors try to do. Be warned though, you'll need endless patience....and keep a bottle handy, you'll likely need it!
  • #65
  • Jun 2, 2010 5:00pm Jun 2, 2010 5:00pm
Quoting eagle4x
So what? After thousands of fantastic posts he's contributed at no cost to anyone, he deserves something in return, and if he can make $ at it, more power to him.
So making some post on a forum is now worth money? I haven't read many of Hanovers posts, they usually are long winded, over thought efforts. No offence just my opinion.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #66
  • Jun 2, 2010 5:08pm Jun 2, 2010 5:08pm
Quoting markmm
So making some post on a forum is now worth money? I haven't read many of Hanovers posts, they usually are long winded, over thought efforts. No offence just my opinion.
Hanover will not be teaching anyone how to trade. He's offering his programming services for money... which is about as dishonest as any other profession that exists.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #67
  • Jun 2, 2010 5:10pm Jun 2, 2010 5:10pm
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Hanover will not be teaching anyone how to trade. He's offering his programming services for money... which is about as dishonest as any other profession that exists.
As I said in my earlier post good luck to him.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #68
  • Jun 2, 2010 5:19pm Jun 2, 2010 5:19pm
Quoting markmm
I haven't read many of Hanovers posts, they usually are long winded, over thought efforts. No offence just my opinion.
lol, I've got to agree, they do get a little 'involved' sometimes but great if you're an insomniac trader!

(just kiddin David, better too much than not enough!)
  • #69
  • Jun 2, 2010 5:25pm Jun 2, 2010 5:25pm
Programmers for hire in same boat as politicians, lawyers, used car salesmen? Wow, never heard that one before.

Quoting Leonlorenzo
Hanover will not be teaching anyone how to trade. He's offering his programming services for money... which is about as dishonest as any other profession that exists.
  • #70
  • Jun 2, 2010 5:32pm Jun 2, 2010 5:32pm
Quoting eagle4x
Programmers for hire in same boat as politicians, lawyers, used car salesmen? Wow, never heard that one before.
Well, programming requires the programmer to do exactly as the customer wishes so that a good reputation is built and maintained, so it can't be placed in the same category as those professions. Politicians, for example, have a conflict of interest that does not exist for programmers. I'm sure you know all this.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #71
  • Jun 2, 2010 6:49pm Jun 2, 2010 6:49pm
Wishing you all the best in any venture you undertake David.

As always the empty vessels make most noise.

Funny how it is always the usual suspects.
The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.
  • #72
  • Jun 2, 2010 7:49pm Jun 2, 2010 7:49pm
Many thanks, everybody, for your kind comments and good wishes.

I don't make any claim to the correctness, or otherwise, of my original post, LOL (I think Craig summed it up pretty well). It's merely a watered-down summary of observations and conclusions that I've reached after a my first 4 years. As I said, it's been largely a process of elimination, i.e. filtering out the ideas and processes that I haven't been able to get to work for me. Of course it's quite possible that somebody else might become profitable by, for example, stacking their charts with a plethora of different oscillators, or employing a Martingale variant (Craig Harris does!), or by making coin-toss entries backed by some kind of subliminal meditation. All I'm saying is that I've taken these ideas far enough to convince myself that, given what I've learned about how and why markets operate, I should focus my time and effort elsewhere.

I posted in the hope that it might short circuit parts of the learning curve for somebody else. Take from it whatever you will, good or bad. At the end of the day (and to state the obvious), each individual must work through the learning process by him- or herself.

Perhaps naively, I didn't anticipate the reaction to my "I'm going commercial" statement. I was approached by a professional forex trader and coach who wanted software developed, and he offered me the opportunity of a joint venture. Since forum rule #3 states "If you make money by servicing Forex traders in any way, shape, or form, or have any commercial agenda whatsoever, you are NOT permitted to post in the forums regardless of whether your posts are promotional or not", I decided to be declare my intentions, and apply for commercial membership. That's all.
  • #73
  • Jun 2, 2010 8:12pm Jun 2, 2010 8:12pm
This thread exhibits a good variety of typical human behaviour, and how some minor disagreement can be blown out of proportion.
  • #74
  • Jun 2, 2010 8:31pm Jun 2, 2010 8:31pm
Quoting hanover
Many thanks, everybody, for your kind comments and good wishes.
Well Hanover, you have my kind comments and good wishes as well.

You've always displayed a high level of integrity and patience around here.

You've always set a good example, and you went straight to commercial status
just because you're doing some programming for some guy.....

See what I mean folks ??....... Integrity.
  • #75
  • Jun 2, 2010 9:06pm Jun 2, 2010 9:06pm
Quoting Price
Well Hanover, you have my kind comments and good wishes as well.

You've always displayed a high level of integrity and patience around here.

You've always set a good example, and you went straight to commercial status
just because you're doing some programming for some guy.....

See what I mean folks ??....... Integrity.
Ditto.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #76
  • Jun 2, 2010 9:49pm Jun 2, 2010 9:49pm
Bah @ the negativity here. Too much emotionalism.

I'd love to discuss the nature of stacking edges, how to measure edges, and how to
determine optimal exit strategies.

@hanover - Have you considered a fixed exit strategy, rather than a variable strategy
based on ranging/trending? What criteria do you use to determine your exit?

I don't think details are useless at all. Devil's in the details, as they say. Maybe we can
talk detail sometime? Detail is what separates the feel-good from what actually works.
  • #77
  • Edited Jun 3, 2010 12:56am Jun 2, 2010 11:55pm | Edited Jun 3, 2010 12:56am
Quoting hanover
Of course it's quite possible that somebody else might become profitable by, for example, stacking their charts with a plethora of different oscillators, or employing a Martingale variant (Craig Harris does!), or by making coin-toss entries backed by some kind of subliminal meditation.
lol, talk about extremes, there is some ground in-between you know!


Quoting hanover
Perhaps naively, I didn't anticipate the reaction to my "I'm going commercial" statement. I was approached by a professional forex trader and coach who wanted software developed, and he offered me the opportunity of a joint venture.
If you don't mind me saying that was an odd decision to make seeing as you agree there isn't a system, strategy, or approach which can be easily transferred from trader to trader. True mentoring isn't intended, or viable, as a commercial venture so it makes one wonder what exactly you're going to offer between you, I expect we'll find out in the commercial section. As for programming, it's an extremely competitive marketplace. I myself had an alert written for MT4 by a young Eastern European guy who worked on it for over 3 weeks and made numerous revisions.....he only asked for $20 and was elated when I sent him a $100 bill in the post, so for the majority I wouldn't think programming in this space is exactly lucrative either!

Rarely are professional traders seen touting commercial wares to the masses at this level, they're aware it's unlikely to offer value for the buyer, besides which novices either don't have the money to spend in the first place or if they do they don't want to spend it!

Like I said before, so far I haven't seen anything for sale that isn't either snakeoil and/or available free (or extremely cheaply) elsewhere.
  • #78
  • Jun 3, 2010 1:42am Jun 3, 2010 1:42am
I wish you well David. I know you've done a lot of work for your partner already, so I'm sure you'll get on well.

I'm certain that whatever your venture is, it won't be typical of the rubbish anticipated by the skeptics. It's odd that some people are already finding fault with your plans when you haven't even revealed them. So it goes.

Following the rules and voluntarily donning the dubious commercial tag validates the integrity you're known for. A lot of us will miss your "long-winded" posts and all your help in the programming forum. I've never found your posts over-thought but, rather well-thought out and explained in a way that anyone at any level could understand. And with a lot of references to support your opinions. You've earned a lot of respect from new people and those who've been around a little longer.

Happy sailing on the cyber-sea.

Bill
  • #79
  • Jun 3, 2010 2:20am Jun 3, 2010 2:20am
Quoting billflet

I know you've done a lot of work for your partner already, so I'm sure you'll get on well.
Don't keep us in suspense, who is it!
  • #80
  • Jun 3, 2010 3:10am Jun 3, 2010 3:10am
Quoting pipmutt
As for programming, it's an extremely competitive marketplace. I myself had an alert written for MT4 by a young Eastern European guy who worked on it for over 3 weeks and made numerous revisions.....he only asked for $20 and was elated when I sent him a $100 bill in the post, so for the majority I wouldn't think programming in this space is exactly lucrative either!
There are programmers and programmers. Check what an average salary is for an usual fund tech guy compared to industry standard.
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