Education road map?

Hello all. I've been reading here for a few months now as time permits. (I have an all consuming job that requires me to work endless hours, hence the reason I'm trying to learn a new career) It seems I understand even less than when I started reading post after post after post in my quest of my first baby steps into a new career path. First off, I don't want this to come off as an ungrateful post. Quite the contrary. I am very thankful for the information successful traders bring to this forum to help others. It is a truly selfless act that is greatly appreciated. What I'm having difficulty with, and maybe other new folks do to, is I see a lot of posts saying you have to put in your time. Get your education. Get your "degree" for lack of a better term. Doctors wouldn't be Doctors without an education, and I don't expect to be a trader without the same dedication to learning how to be a good trader. But not a whole lot of posts of WHERE to get that education. So, my extremely long winded request for some of the people that have already gotten their "degree" is HOW? What path did you take? Where did you start? What things did you find valuable? What things did you find a waste of time and/or money? Something that would be of great value to all new people to trading on this site would be for the veterans to post a "road map" of their education and what was of benefit to them, and why? Every person that attends a standard university has a required curriculum to obtain their education. I feel this should be no different, but could use some assistance as to what the curriculum should be, and where to find it. I find I have a difficult time focusing, as the posts that are of benefit, reference so many other posts that a spider web effect happens, and I don't get the benefit that was intended by the poster. Thanks again for a great site.

Well this definitely stands to be a long post LOL

I’m not going to get into my exact path as to how I got where I am but I will gladly offer some information that will hopefully do some good.
Yes you hear it all the time. Put in your screen time, pay your dues, and then you will finally be blessed with the knowledge of profitable trading. Sounds like a bunch of rubbish and maybe for some it is but alas there is some truth to it as well.

You absolutely need to put your screen time in so you can see market movement. This is kind of the beginning. For many folks they pop open a chart for the first time and are dumbfounded by the massive amount of bars or candles on their chart trying to figure out where the heck I begin. So there is no replacement for chart time. But what about cutting your teeth on something? Where do you really begin?? And how do you know that the information you are diving into is even worthwhile???

There is a ton of information anyone can get their hands on; Books, E-books, websites, forums (no offense FF), and even word of mouth. Weeding out the good from the worthless is an arduous task. And I feel that not having someone to guide or recommend places to begin is where having to put in so much time to getting to a point of profitability occurs.

There are just some things you have to learn on your own. When I first got involved in trading I read information about trading psychology and essentially shrugged it off. Let me tell anyone who reads this DO NOT discount the importance of trading psychology. You must be very in touch with yourself. You need to understand how you react in stressful situations, how to you react when things are going really well, and how you react in times of boredom or being overactive. Trust me if you don’t know how you handle things such as these you surely will find out when you put some of your hard earned cash on the line.

What I offer here next is a path that I believe may be helpful to shorten ones learning curve but in no way a complete step by step process for how to become a profitable trader.

1. First and foremost, you have got to learn some things about the market you are looking to trade. Learn some of the basics. Find out who the big players are in the Spot Forex market. What is it that drives the markets, and knowing that the market can be traded around the clock it would be wise to know at what times which central banks are trading those currencies.

2. Understand what a PIP is. Do you even know what PIP means (Percentage in Point) look it up! Will it make you a profitable trader? Probably not but you’ll know what it is and what it means in relation to price. Which is probably more than most newbies who jump on this site (no offense meant).

3. Understand what leverage is. I am not going to get into it here but you need to know this. You must understand how it can be a double edged sword.

All of the things I have just mentioned above can be learned within FF and you can also go to Baby Pips School which is free, and a great place to start.

4. Open a demo account with a broker. I would recommend going with a broker that uses an MT4 platform. My reasoning behind this is that the platform is really easy to use. The purpose is to be able to get price up on a screen and see how it moves and be able to understand and learn how to use some of the basic tools (trend lines, fibs, MA’s etc) I don’t care if you never open an account with that broker but like I said the idea is to see price and learn how to apply some tools. Most platforms will allow you to do this but MT4 is one of the easiest to learn.
Now that you have some idea of what makes up the markets, understand some terminology, and have doodled around with a platform you need to start getting your feet wet.

5. Next you need to learn about market movements. You need to learn how to identify areas of support and resistance and you need to learn how to identify a trend. The basics are simple but where it becomes difficult is knowing without a doubt in your mind, is the trend continuing, stalling reversing, or entering a range. I’m not saying you need to become a predictor of price movement but you need to have rules in place that dictate when a trend has ended or begun. Trying to predict where price will turn around is a tough game to play. My recommendation here would be to pick up a book by Joe Ross called Trading the Ross Hook. It’s a great read with some very real information that can be seen in any chart. It’s not the only source for this but it surely is a really good one.

6. Once you understand these basics you need to begin testing a trading methodology that fits your temperament and schedule. The ideal method is one that can be traded on all time frames, has a complete trading plan showing entry criteria, where your initial stops would be placed, profit taking criteria and how to manage your trades that continue moving in the right direction. Without proper money management the best system in the world can fail. Read that again “Without proper money management the best system in the world can fail” and the opposite is also true, excellent money management can make a system that is only correct 30% of the time profitable.

7. Now this is where things get dicey. You have so much new knowledge and you are ready to go out and conquer the world, but how do you know that a method is worth the paper it’s written on? This my friend is where the scam artists come in and will gladly part you from your money in search of the holy grail. There are as many ways to trade the markets as there are traders. Just look at this forum as an example. There are a number of systems on this forum that are worth while. A few that stand out are James16, The System II (yes with irony), and Cornflower Hourly System. Are these the only ones? NO but they are some good ones. Don’t get hung up on using an indicator heavy system. I am not saying don’t use indictors at all but use them sparingly. Remember indicators are there as a tool to assist with trade confirmation not to determine if there is a trade worth getting into. Do not use them as a crutch, price is now and always has been king. Keep that in mind and you should be moving in the right direction.

8. Finally, stick to one system. Put it through its paces and really give it a chance. Remember there is no system that will produce 100% winning trades. Sticking to one system will allow you to find the little nuances that occur when price does certain things. As you learn the system your confidence will grow and you will start to really get your trading feet on the ground. If you turn tail and run at the first sign of adversity (losing a few trades in a row) and head off to find the next best system, you will find yourself system hopping always looking for that system that will give you the results you want to see. And as soon as it experiences a losing period you are off and running again. Take your time and keep plugging along and soon enough as your confidence grows so will your account.

One last note. There is another book that I read which did wonders for me. I would not recommend getting it right away but would highly recommend it for those of you who are experiencing some tough times with your trading or still trying to make your method profitable. Check out “Trading is a Business” by Joe Ross. It’s an easy read and will really help you flush out some internal psychology issues that may be preventing you from turning the corner. I am not a representative of the man but he sure does write some good stuff LOL

And if you have any other questions fee free to post them here or PM me. I would be glad to help where I can.

Best of luck!
Trader V

Nothing comes easy, not even the right curriculum

However.. this is the way I believe someone could start.
Note: I did not start this way myself but now I would. I trade full time and that's all I do and I make a reasonable living.

I would get a couple of demo accounts with separate brokers and trade them like your life depended on it. Trade the same pair on each. Worry when it goes backwards.. just like you would if it was real. Compare the two brokers and the results on each. Teach yourself the brokers tricks so you know what to expect. Read about order flow and how the market fills orders because that is how your price action works. Plenty of stuff on the net for this.

While you are doing that and in conjunction with your trading.. get a couple of good books like, "beating the forex dealer" and "candlestick trading for forex". Pick your trades by the books and work out which parts of the books you will carry on through to your live trading.

Always remember don't chase the market, wait for it to come.

Trade the sideways and the trends, that way you will learn to recognize the high probability setups. I am not proposing you trade a sideways market live but it is good experience and who knows, you might get really good at it.

Don't buy an EA! You will just waste your learning time.
Get yourself a trade manager or you will go bananas

Watch the difference in the session times and always close a trade 30 minutes before the London close if the price action is making your nervous.
Not really a good idea to open in the first hour of the Sydney session either.

Think about what is behind the price action and learn every day until you have made yourself a decent profit regularly.

I don't think there is a short cut but I think this approach may save you some time and money.

If you practice every day as you read, you should be able to make consistent profits after about 3 or 4 months.

Live trading will be different than a demo account, suddenly you will have requotes, slippage and higher spikes.

Not sure how you prepare for this but if your trade manager is a good one, you can get it to open the order and you will avoid the requotes from a lot of brokers and you should be able to dial in the acceptable slippage.

If you win 6 trades from 10 & risk 20% of your expected gain.. you will do just fine.

A good trader never thinks he/she is good enough and they continue toward self improvement everyday.

Good Luck and I hope this is of some help.

Hey man I'm a relatively new trader as well and have felt the same way. I say the best thing that you can do to save you time and aggravation is take a course on FX. I mean take a course that you pay for! There are a lot of them offered out there for hundreds or thousands of dollars but I took an 8 day intensive online course through FXCM for $20. By far the best $20 ever spent. You learn about all the major technical indicators and how to best utilize them, as well as all the fundamentals that our friend spoke about above. You can then develop your own strategy through practice, they suggest make at least 10 trades with each indicator so you can judge its strengths and weaknesses. Once your develop your system test it with at least 100 trades on your demo account and keep a trade journal so you can go back and analyze your thought process and then evaluate if you deviated from your initial thinking. If you are really serious about becoming a trader invest in yourself and if you take the one from FXCM do every lesson, take every quiz, and participate in discussion as much as possible. I promise you I was in the same situation, unable to develop any kinda of strategy and now I've never had a down day in the 2 months trading live. Good luck!

http://www.babypips.com/school/

Goes from basic to more complex. If you want to get more in depth in a particular area

http://www.investopedia.com

has a slew of information from common definitions to trading related strategies and articles. Much better than sifting through the trading section here IMO.

There are also several magazines to look into:

TASC
SFO (free)
Currency Trader Mag (also free)

And books (authors)

Pring
Steenbarger
Elder
Tharp (I particularly get a lot out of his books)
Douglas

and I agree with the others about screen time. Lots of that is needed.

I want to thanks Trader_V. I downloaded one of the books and I'm searching for the another one.
I'm following those steps (specially babypips).
Hope someday I will get there.

Just remember to take your time and don't rush the learning process. Give yourself time to learn test and develop as a trader and keep at it.

All the best!

Trader V

A big miconception on the part of novice traders is that there are 2 ways of trading (technical or fundamental) and all they need to do is pick one to learn. The reality is that there are as many ways to trade as there are traders in the market. And this is where all the confusion comes from.

It's not uncommon to read two posts, by two highly successful technical traders, and find that their suggestions directly contradict each other. Looking at it from a right and wrong perspective will leave you lost and confused. If you assume they are both right "within their own trading system", then your free to extract the information that makes sense "for you".

You won't find a course outline because each individual trader mixes his life expriences, his personality, and the information he comes across while learning to trade, into a system that works "for him".

The best you can do is read as much as possible on the subject while you try out your own ideas on demo. When you are successful with that, move on to a small real money account. Once you do, you'll realize how screwed up you are psychologically and you'll spend a couple years slaying your personal demons. If you take yourself seriously and have the discepline to change yourself, you'll achieve success.

The one bit of advice "I" would offer to any aspiring trader is to take the changing yourself bit seriously. It's ironic but I've found that the people who are most often attracted to this career are those least capable of succeeding in it. The freedom attracts those with little discepline and the money sucks in those most in need of it. If you are here under either pretext, then you need to accept that you are either going to completely change who you are as a human being, or your going to be a failure at this business.

Fix yourself... fix your life... and with little more then some time and a couple of bucks, you can make all your dreams come true.

Luck be with you.

minimum 4-6 years......If you work during the day..more like 6 because you likely want to code your stuff. Then it gets tricky.... I am sure there are some manual traders doing well...likely 2-3 years of hard study....They aint given money away, thats for sure.

That's right. Take your time. Be patient. I am 1 year in and I am constantly reminded of how little I know & understand.

If you think you want to become a "quant" - here is a link that lays out a basic fundamental curriculum:

http://www.cqf.com/ (dozens of uni's offer MFE programs & those are worth a look, too. Some have the course materials posted online..)

...and here is a link to a critique of how useful being a "quant" is...

http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~jhasbrou...%20finance.pdf

Thank you all for your responses. I'm truly approaching this new career path as if I'm going to college to learn a new trade (no pun intended). I've taken the same approach with my current career, and have constantly learned and evolved to become better at my job. But after 18 years of it, it's time for a new chapter in my life, and I know full well I cannot expect to become successful without the same dedication I've put into learning my current career. Maybe this is the wrong way to start, but I want to understand how things work before opening any demo accounts. I believe without that understanding, or at least some education I'll be setting myself up for hours of frustration and failure without knowing the "how's and why's" of what is going on. Thank you again.

Good Luck!

A few other titles that are well worth spending some time with:

"Trading and Exchanges" by Larry Harris

"An Arbitrage Guide to Financial Markets" by Robert Dubil

books on trading psychology by Steenbarger

I cant really advice you on any education roadmap as I believe each one of us learn things differently.

However below is how I get started and eventually make a living with currency trading today.

Step 1: I read up on the basic of forex from a book called '10 Essentials of Forex'. I find that I am very interested in this topic and thus search around the internet to look for more materials.

Step 2: I enrolled into an online forex course to learn how to trade forex swing and then another course that teaches me on candlesticks and other technical analysis stuff.

Step 3: I opened a demo account to put what I have learned to use to see if they are effective. From this process, I screened out some of those strategies that I do not really like or not effective and then stick to 2 strategies that I find suits me best.

Step 4: I practice and fine tune the strategies for six months on demo account until I am able to generate consistent profit for 3 months.

Step 5: I started a mini account and trade the same strategies that I use on the demo account. Although I am making consistent profit on a demo account, the transition to live trading does give me a losing month as I am finding myself cutting my profit short because I am trading with real money. It tooks me sometime to finally get back to the winning stage of money by sticking to my discipline to let the profit run.

Step 6: After accumulating my capital from the profit I have generated from the past few months, I move to a standard account with some additional funding and eventually become a full time trader today.

The whole process took me about 13 to 15 months and I will say this is completely worthwhile as trading has given me the freedom and money that I cant get from my previous day job as an engineer.

All the best to you

Thanks again to everyone that has posted. I've never really been one to participate in forums and the like, but as an effort to keep myself focused, I may continually update this thread as I work my own way through this journey to show one person's "road map" through the process from the very beginning. Hopefully it will be of some use to people like myself who are an absolute beginner into attempting a new career. Starting with the information contained above and leading wherever it may take me. Either through success or failure to provide information to anyone looking to break into trading with opinion on what may be worthwhile, and what might be a waste of time. I appreciate everyone's input thus far.

Hi

i m sure e/one started their own way but i started this way and its going ok

1. Baby pips .com

2. I suggest you read the first 100 pages of Jims Price Action thread here on FF, Ddownload his and others charts and understand the terms used

3. then , try to read a book a month, read Mark Douglas, Tharpe, Elder , Steenbarger etc

4. inbetween times squeeze in some chart time applying your knowledge from Jims PA thread

5. ask the more experienced ff peeps qns, they are really helpful and know alot

take your time and enjoy, im 6 months in and beginning to crawl thanks to Jim and FF!

Hey Mate

My advice is remember baby steps first the market will always be there.But what ever you decide to do is focus on one project at a time. The mistake I made was started testing one idea then i would read a forum than get a new idea and this processes repeated itself over and over for a while ( no offense is met to forum junkies) but this is my story and a lesson I wish I had learned earlier.

So first if time is an issue trade longer term charts say a daily for a trend and a four hour for trade placement, then trade one pair at a time only. Then test it properly then forward test on a demo then go live on the smallest amount possible and focus on taking the trades as they come forget about how much you make just take the right trades and follow your rules.

About a system well there are thousands of them out there and most work the problem is you start a new system and it losses for the first two weeks then you give up.Most traders take the losing ones and don't stick around for the winners.

Remember be honest to yourself and the time you have to trade, day trading is what I like but my job gives me a couple of hours a day to this I still reckon longer term is best for less stress.

If you have any questions or would like more information about my roller coaster ride to finally getting consistent returns(I am no millionaire and trade part time) leave a comment on my blog and I will go into more detail for you.

Best of luck with what ever you do but you are the only who can make it work,we can guide you and there are many willing helpers here, Forget robots I am testing one and is not a good place to go IMO

Darren

http://www.fxtradingfactory.com

Like others said screentime is important. I’m using mt4 and a trading simulation add-on to speed-up the amount of screentime I’m getting. I also try to record a few hours of my live trading each day and review it on weekends. In this way you can fast track your experience and push yourself along the learning curve.

And I agree that the learning has less to do with understanding how to trade and more to do with understanding your own personality.

I too am a novice and have recently started on the road to becoming a trader. The advice above is good but there is just so much information on the forums that seem to contradict each other. I just want a simple explanation of a good, tried and true method.

This is one of the best. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=27286
Check the link in the signature too

Its probably better if you dont get this information at this stage, because your way of thinking at this stage just isnt appropriate and you would be unable to understand or derive any benefit from that information. You wouldnt know a good system from a hole in the ground, and right now you dont have the faintest idea of how you might objectively differentiate between a good and bad system !

You'll try the method, and you'll fail, and at a point in time a little later, you may actually discount the method based on your earlier experiences.

Right now you are light years from being able to succed, your expectations and the way that you think is the complete opposite of what they need to be, and the only way that you'll change that its through an extremely painful process and hard work.

You might seriously want to consider why you want to do this because for most people, the rewards are simply not worth the price that needs to be paid.

The answer you seek is to cut losses short, and allow profits to run. Conceptually it really is as simple as that, you could probably take enties at random and still do OK, but understanding what that actually means in the context of a market, and then doing it, well thats an entirely different problem.