Problem with InstaForex

Hi All,
this problem happened with me 2 months a go , and i did not report it in that time because i though that it`s a normal problem and i`m the only responsible for this problem.

but 2 weeks a go it`s happened again but by the opposite case , so i wonder how come this problem happen in the 2 ways? ,
since there was almost war between Insta and some of their Traders and the fact that they don`t deal really with a real bank or real market and all the deals pass to the dealing desk so i began to be more skeptic about that my problem caused by their dealing desk , not by me or by the MetaTrade platform.

Ok , enough with this introduction and let me explain what was my problem:
in the 16 th of last Nov i open a buy GbpUsd position ( pip = $10) , but the price went down and i lost some good money in it and in another buy position - i opened after the first one but the price continue to went down and i close the second position with a lose of $480 .

now lets back to the open losing deal , after i got $480 lose i though to hedge the open deal till i can clearly know where is the trend direction , but i make a mistake and submit a pending sell stop order higher than what i suppose to submit by 8 pips.

now the price went down again and activate the hedge order , then back to the bullish direction and in this case i had 2 losing deals that i couldn`t handle by the right way and i loss by the 2 deals.

So far all of the problem looks like caused by my hands , and Insta have nothing to do with this problem , but the real problem is that the hedge position activate ( opened ) when i had in my equity only $181 while according to their multiple support persons it should be at least %100 of the margin .
mean that in my case it should be at least $325( the required margin for gbpusd position pip = $10) in my equity , but as you will see i had only $181 instead the $325.

so the million dollar question is HOW & WHO ACTIVATE THIS HEDGE ORDER?

i think that the answer is very simple , the dealing desk did it , who else can control these orders?.

Maybe some one wonder why i did not report this problem when it`s happened? , why it`s take so long for me to figure that i have been scammed?

well,the last days i notice that many of my hedge positions canceled by the dealer , while i was have in my equity at least %90 or more from the margin , and i was wonder why is that.
also the last 3 weeks i figured that Instaforex is not fair , honest company because they said that they are allowing scalping and push the traders to try this way in trading by providing to them scalping contest, while they have in their TOS that you have to wait at least 2 minutes before you be able to close any deal , or it might be not considered in your balance.

and many other things i read in the forums about reviewing the trader history back to 6 months and if they notice any mistake they deduct it from his/her balance right a way.

Ok, now lets see the Dummy reply i got from the Chief dealer when i contact them:
can you imagine this answer?

they always said that the margin call level is %30 and the chief dealer in this company said you can hedge any order when you have %25 of the margin only.

lets pass the margin call level , but what about their support answers?
Darika here in talk gold said that it`s require %100 of the margin
the life support Alexander said that you have to have at least %130 of the margin, the Arabian support in the Arabic forums said that it must be at least %100 , so how come all of those ppl said some thing and the chief dealer said something else?

here is the images of the chief dealer replies and my statement with a detailed chart for the that period:

1-
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/9577/22324352.png

2-
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3530/20267440.png

3-
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5176/79855989.png

4-
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8984/44820219.png


here is the statement:
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4854/18712865.png

and here is the detailed chart:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1041/62269221.gif

Here i`ll post the support confessions about the margin percentage that must have before activate the hedge order.

i submitting them in a separate post because it`s very large images:

First the live support , and please note the marked lines:

here is a direct link to the whole chat:
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6280/92555723.png

and here it`s again in parts:
1-
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/9869/70971618.jpg

2-
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8056/75463872.jpg

3-
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6100/37196126.jpg


Second , Darika in Talk gold :

direct image to the whole page :
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7307/16724297.png

here it`s again in parts:
1-
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3235/55141562.jpg

2-
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1076/91712880.jpg

3-
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5549/95717995.jpg

Now for the last part of my very bad experience with Insta forex.

the Support Torture ,

don`t shocked when you review the images below , but just think and wonder why should for honest company to treat their traders like this?
unless it have many things to hide:

Torture 1
Yahoo messenger support
before you review the chat i would like to mention that i post this chat in 3 famous forex forums asking if my English language was so bad that caused to this support person not to respond to me ,but no one said so at all , actually some of the reviewer said that my English language better than him/her.

direct link to the whole chat:
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8883/67351014.jpg

again in 2 parts
1-
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7339/12996200.jpg

2-
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/598/28097018.jpg

Torture 2

the live support man ,
as you saw this person the first one give me peace of information that it must be at least %130 in the margin volume , but when i asked him to send to me this chat to my email to use it as an evidence , he refuse , and refuse , and refuse.
see the important part from his chat

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2135/65630607.jpg

WOW,140 views but no one comment / post?

ok , maybe the mistake in the chart that i did not write the word LOSE beside the $690 confused some members and prevent them from posting their opinion.

here is a correction for the same chart , but this time i add the word Lose

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/1041/62269221.gif

Waiting for response...
For you to connect operator Ekaterina
14:54:52 Ekaterina: Hello. How can I help you?

14:55:14 You:: Good afternoon. Dear madam, which is the minimum margin requirements in order to open a hedged position?

14:55:20 You:: are*

14:57:41 You:: Are you with me?

14:58:16 Ekaterina: I think you mean loked position.

14:59:42 You:: I mean % margin

15:00:08 Ekaterina: I don't understand your question.

15:00:27 Ekaterina: Could you provide more detailed information?

15:00:51 Ekaterina: What do you mean saying hedged position?

15:01:27 You:: If I sell one full lot of, let's say, GBPUSD. I would need about 350$ to open that position. Which is the minimum amount of money that I should have in my account in order to hedge that position?

15:02:24 Ekaterina: What do you mean saying hedge?

15:02:56 You:: Buy a full lot without having my sell position closed.

15:03:31 Ekaterina: You mean loking, not hedging.

15:04:57 You:: They are equivalent terms : http://business.solveyourproblem.com...ng-forex.shtml

15:07:37 You:: So yes, locking, hedging, the essence is the same: avoid further losses by opening an opposite position to your current one until the trend changes in your favor.

15:08:03 You:: I hope you're not reading the whole article right now

Joined operator Alexey
15:08:30 Alexey: No of course . Wait 5 minutes pls.

15:08:55 Evgeniy: I think you confuse the notion of locking and hedging.

15:09:27 You:: Do I need three operators to find out the answer to one question?

Joined operator Evgeniy
15:10:16 Evgeniy: Write please more exactly your question.

15:10:22 You:: Sir/madam, I think I made myself clear when I offered the example with pound lots.

15:10:36 Evgeniy: Could you please write in one sentence?

15:10:36 You:: I don't care if that is hedging/locking

15:11:11 Alexey: To open hedge/lock position, you just need the level to be more than 100%.

15:11:21 You:: I invest 350$ by selling pound. The trend turns up so in order to avoid losses I want to buy until the trend resumes its down path

15:11:26 You:: which is the minimum amount

15:11:32 You:: that I need to have in my account?

15:12:21 Evgeniy: If you have leverage 1:500 by currency pair GBPUSD and 1 lot you need to minimum amount 32usd.

15:13:19 You:: So..I have 70$ in my account. I buy at 1:500 in account I have 70-32=38$

15:13:25 You:: Or less

15:13:30 You:: because of spread

15:13:40 You:: will I be able to sell another lot?

15:13:52 Evgeniy: Right.

15:14:07 You:: But if my equities drop to 30$?

15:14:35 Evgeniy: So 38 usd is free money which you can use for open other position.

15:15:02 You:: But if my equities drop to 30$? Will I be able to fully lock/hedge?

15:17:04 You:: Is there a fourth operator waiting on the line to simply write <> or <>?

15:17:15 You:: yes or no*

15:17:50 Evgeniy: Yes sir, able.

15:18:10 You:: Didn't you said there should be at least 100%?

15:21:30 Evgeniy: No sir.

15:21:44 You:: Indeed, I'm sorry

15:21:50 You:: It wasn't you.

15:21:55 You:: It was the second.

15:22:26 Evgeniy: If a present trading account condition (equity) is less than 10% of the necessary margin to maintain an open position, the Company has the right to force a Client's closing position without prior notice.

15:22:46 Evgeniy: The server controls the present account conditions. In the case that conditions, which are described in paragraph 3.7.2. of the present Agreement, are violated, the server will generate a forced order position (stop out). A stop out is executed according to the market price. A forced closing position is recorded in the server log file as a "stop out".

15:22:50 You:: I've been talking with your support for more than 25 minutes in order to find out the answer to some questions regarding the same matter, punctually: I buy a lot. I need 32$. Which is the minimum amount that I need to have in my equities in order to lock that position?

15:22:59 Evgeniy: The Company guarantees, after closing the last trading account position that a balance of 0% - 10% margin will remain, which is necessary for maintaining that last forced position closing.

15:23:11 You:: And still, I've been talking with your support for more than 25 minutes in order to find out the answer to some questions regarding the same matter, punctually: I buy a lot. I need 32$. Which is the minimum amount that I need to have in my equities in order to lock that position?

15:24:43 Alexey: 25% of normal margin.

15:25:04 You:: That means 25% of 32$?

15:25:41 You:: Alexey?>

15:25:44 You:: You told me

15:25:49 You:: I need 100%

15:26:09 Alexey: Your LEVEL must me more than 100% when you open lock/hedge position.

15:26:16 You:: Sir, please

15:26:20 You:: with examples

15:26:26 You:: as I explained to you

15:26:37 You:: 100% of what?

15:26:41 You:: 25% of what?

15:26:56 You:: level of what?

15:27:41 You:: I invested 32$ in pound. I need 25% of 32$ to open an opposite position? That means 8$?

15:28:02 You:: Or I need at least another 32$>

15:28:05 You:: ?

15:28:21 Alexey: Level = Margin level.

15:28:29 You:: With examples.

15:28:46 Alexey: Equity/Margin = Margin level. It has be more than 100%.

15:29:12 Alexey: 25% of normal margin needed to open such position.

15:29:14 You:: Come on, sir, there are only two situations: 8$ or 32$?

15:29:21 You:: I gave you the examples

15:29:26 You:: you give me the answer

15:31:22 Alexey: Okay. You have one position opened. It requires maring = Position volume/500. If you open opposite position, 75% of margin of 1st position becomes free and 1/4 of that 75% will be used to open hedging position.

15:31:28 You:: Here we go again: I have 70$ in my account. I sell pound. One lot, 1:500. It costs me 32$. In my equities I remain with 38$. This is less than 100% of my equities, isn't it?

15:31:47 You:: of initial equities*

15:32:00 You:: it's about 55%

15:32:58 You:: Ok..now apply your theory on my example

15:33:05 You:: and make me understand what you've saying there

15:33:24 You:: When I ask for example, I mean an example, not theory.

15:34:58 You:: For the moment all of you three have an F, as in 40 minutes you weren't able to make a simple, logical, mathematical equation and give an appropriate answer.

15:35:49 You:: Explain that margin thing and level and 25% on the 70$ account margin, with a pound sell lot open.

15:38:25 Alexey: Do you have any questions?

15:38:31 You:: Yes

15:38:44 You:: I have 70$ in my account.

15:38:48 You:: I sell one lot

15:38:53 You:: GBPusd

15:38:57 You:: at a 1:500 leverage

15:39:03 You:: I need 32$

15:39:11 You:: I remain with less than 38$

15:39:15 You:: in my account.

15:39:21 You:: I guess 35

15:39:55 You:: Can I lock/hedge that position? And if yes, when will I become unable to lock/hedge it?

15:40:42 You:: Do you have any answer?

15:44:45 You:: Well?

15:45:56 You:: Please, until now you didn't prove at all professionalism but don't prove incompetence.

15:48:13 You:: Do you have an answer?

15:56:55 You:: May I know why is taking so long to respond?

15:59:50 You:: Take you're time. I'll go to eat for the moment.

15:59:56 You:: Brb

16:13:46 You:: Back.

16:13:51 You:: So..what's up ?

16:13:59 You:: Do you have an answer?

16:16:18 You:: Well, it won't be a positive advertisement for your company to post this chat and everybody see your pathetic support. Letting a customer to chat in vain for a half of hour without giving him an answer.

16:16:46 You:: As far as your company concerned, you are pure scam in it's deepest meaning.

16:17:22 You:: I had to chat with three representatives for one question.

16:17:49 You:: This is a brilliant example of the highest incompetence that can exist in a company.

16:18:23 You:: I wish you a quick insolvency.

16:18:26 You:: Have a good day.

I wonder if InstafraudX is renting an office near Chernobyl ? That would explain a lot.

@pollux

Welcome to the torture section in Instaforex.com

if you notice my second post in this thread , you will see that Alexander said that i must have %130 in my margin level / equity .

also in another forex forum that have sticky topic in the forex section , i asked the representative there the same question and they answer like your Alexy answer at first ( at least %100 ) , but when i submit this topic in the same section they logged in and denied what she said before and claim that i need only %25 margin level to be able to open hedge for lose position.

now the big surprise and / or the bad joke / or the stinky fishy rule here is like that:

according to their saying margin call i hit at %30 and in their TOS they said that the dealer may close your position at %30 (margin call )

but

here they said that i can open a hedge for any losing position when i have only %25 of my margin level.

so my question is :
how i can open a hedge at %25 while at the same time the dealer already closed my position because my level hit the margin call percentage (%30)?

you got it?

All in all, I am sorry that you lost money and that there are almost no chances to get them back. The chatting proves that they are aware of this little tricks to steal your money as more than one hour I kept asking the same question over and over again without having a clear, direct yes/no answer. I don't know why you invested 1000$ with them. They have high spreads, incompetent representatives (here I was mean. They are just liars) and no regulatory body supervising their activity. With 1000$ you could just go with an ecn , or FXCM, or Oanda etc. What to do now because you wanted high leverage?

They were claim that they are regulated in some Russian organization , till some Mod - in other forum - expose their trick and post that this organization is responsible only for stock brokerages , not for forex brokerage .

here is the licence page:
http://instaforex.com/licence.php
you can see that they still say instaforex while the certificate belong to Insta trade investment - the stock company - .


also they make a huge promotion campaigns for the %25 bonus when you deposit any amount , then they higher it to %30.

also they did many demo contests .

mean they play it right to blind newbies like me and thousand more.

Can Any one else volunteer to contact the live chat in Instaforex.com and ask them the same question that Pollux ask them ?

the question again is:
1-
how much % i need at least in my margin level to be able to hedge any losing position ?

2-
what ever the answer is you have to ask them to show you the page or the agreement section that confirm what % they said.

3-
in case they said %25 and show this page:
http://instaforex.com/account_types.php

please ask them how come you will be able to open hedge for a losing position while they write in the same page - below - that the margin call MAY BE FORCIBLY CLOSE this losing position at %30 of my margin level.

4-
kindly ask them to email you this chat between you and them so you can use it as evidence , to see if they have something to hide or not.

please help me to expose this fake , scam , fraud broker

so no more newbies fall in their trap.

On the link they gave you :
http://instaforex.com/account_types.php

it clearly says:

Margin** 25% 25%
Margin Call*** 30% 30%
Stop Out**** 10% 10%

** - margin means the percent of volume of the total deposit that is necessary for maintaining the opposite positions for a single pair.
*** - level, when reached, positions may be forcibly closed.
**** - level, when reached, positions will be automatically closed.

So, as I understand the above:

Say the margin needed to open the position is $400.
25% of $400 = $100 is the amount of equity left needed to open the hedging position.

Supposing you have already a position open with $400 as margin locked.
Your equity has dropped to $200 which is 50% margin level (negative free margin)
(200*100/400 = 50)

You are not yet eligible for a margin call as you still have 20% margin level left up to that situation; and 40% margin level up to being stopped out.

Your equity of $200 is enough to cover the $100 margin required for the second (hedging) position.

You chose to place the hedging position.
The system checks and sees that Equity amount covers the margin required.
The system automatically accepts the order.

Assuming the price hasn't moved, you are now left with $100 equity minus the spread on the new position (let's say 3 pips on GBPUSD on 1 standard lot, that's $30 => 100-30 = $70).

$70 is the 14% of the margin required ($400+$100 for the two positions)

As you are below the margin call level (30%), you most probably get a margin call. Positions MAY (probability) be closed out (STOP OUT) but won't be with certainty until the equity reaches $50 (10% of the margin required - two pips later).

Though the position is locked, thus equity remaining stable, there is still a chance that those two pips or $20 reduce the equity, either because of a momentary change in spread - rising to 5 instead of 3 - or at the end of the trading day because of the rollover differential rate.

At that moment, equity reaching $50, all your open positions WILL BE (certainty) closed (stopped out).

Note: keep in mind that those operations are performed by an automated system that does actions in a given order, like I have tried to describe above. They go from A to B to C, and if the conditions for B aren't met at A, they will do A, even if doing A will then bring about the B conditions, which the system will acknowledge and then perform B, and only then C.

And, specifically in your case above:


25% of $325 = $81.25
This was the amount needed to open the hedge.

At the moment when the hedge was opened, you had enough required margin as per their specifications (25% of required margin), and if that was the only two opened positions, the remaining $99,xx amount minus spread 3 pips = $69,xx, which gives an about 16% margin level thus corresponding roughly to the example I described.

New and Important update.

i chat today with 2 of the most respectable staff in Instaforex and they admit that my claim was right and my case / deals will reconsidered again , then i`ll receive new answer from the chief dealer and new action in this forum according to the result.

here is the important parts in this long , long chat

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7333/thebest1.png


http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4811/thebest2.png

Glad to know you're finally getting a revision of your case.

If what the br0ker's support staff affirms in that chat is true, they will have to adjust and reprogram their platform so it performs as such.

Good luck!

Dear doblece,
i would like to thank you a lot for your great response to my topic and your sympathy with my sitution.

about all the explanations and examples you write above you miss the only fact that you submit by your own hands , just like the forum support of Insta do the same fault ,

you said/read that the Margin call hit at %30 and it MAY BE FORCIBLY CLOSE MY POSITION.
the one million dollar question is like this

how i`ll be able to hedge any losing position at %25 of the margin level while i`ll be already hit by margin call ( MAY BE) and closed this losing position.

hope you got it

again big thanx for your effort.

It`s not only that.

they owe me big apology , respectable compensation for the lose caused by this mistake , also a good compensation for the bad treatment i faced by their all kind of support staff.

don`t you think?

Certainly they do.

Instaforex and their counterparts liteforex, corsa capital, forexhunt, UWCFX and God only knows how many other shell companies they hide under are the biggest swindle since the sex pistols (The band that couldn't actually play an instrument).

Their owner Sergey Mayzus is on other forums claiming his competitors are in kahoots with Al Qaeda, Taliban and other nonsense. They guy is a drunken fool.

I'm so sorry you got sucked in to their lies. There is not much you can do about Instaforex. They are registered in BVI which has no regulation at all.

Hi All,
today i got this reply from the chief dealer in Insta:

Already request a withdrew and received it with in 5 hours.

now i can announce truth with Instaforex .

thanx to all FF members ,visitors and all who support me , advice me.

all the best wishes to all of you.

http://www.talkgold.com/forum/images/misc/progress.gif http://www.talkgold.com/forum/images/buttons/edit.gif

Good news! It took a torrent of forum posts and a very public argument where they made scurrilous accusations against you instead of fixing the problem, but you got what was due to you in the end.