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Forex Trading or Gambling

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  • Post #1
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  • First Post: Sep 9, 2009 1:49pm Sep 9, 2009 1:49pm
  •  Dopey
  • Joined Apr 2005 | Status: Dopey Bastard | 1,568 Posts
Holy Obvious, Batman!!! Thanks for that. What are you selling?
  • Post #2
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  • Sep 9, 2009 1:59pm Sep 9, 2009 1:59pm
  •  PeterFM
  • Joined Apr 2006 | Status: Suaviter in modo, fortiter in re | 1,851 Posts
The OP might just be trying to help.
 
 
  • Post #3
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  • Sep 9, 2009 2:27pm Sep 9, 2009 2:27pm
  •  FX-Petra
  • Joined Sep 2007 | Status: Member | 1,674 Posts
Gambling? Of course... in that no trader knows the outcome of any single trade that is placed. The best you can do, through a series of backtests and mathematical modeling, is establish whether or not your system has positive expactancy. With regards to daytrading forex as a retail customer, I have not found any such system to exist. I will leave my response right there, as I have found that further explaintion can evoke emotional and downright nasty resposes.

Kindest Regards,
 
 
  • Post #4
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  • Sep 10, 2009 4:14am Sep 10, 2009 4:14am
  •  Mr J
  • | Joined Aug 2009 | Status: Member | 1,074 Posts
I've dealt with this a few times, so I'll be quick and won't debate it any further:

To gamble means to place a wager on an uncertain outcome. Trading is gambling, regardless of whether or not we have positive expectation. I invite you to look up the word in the dictionary.
 
 
  • Post #5
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  • Sep 10, 2009 4:47am Sep 10, 2009 4:47am
  •  smikester
  • Joined Mar 2007 | Status: Member | 8,618 Posts
Quoting Fxgate
Disliked
But when a pilot should fly a plane can we call he a gambler too?
Ignored
I agree with everything you say and especially that you can not can not call a pilot a gambler. If you say that then almost everything we do is a gamble.

Gamble is a word with negative connotations. To say someone is a gambler suggests he may have an addiction. Not such a bad thing if he knows how to win which, in Forex, is possible. But if he sits there like a pudding pulling slots, or messing with Forex and consistently losing then he's going to cause unhappiness.

I think there are a number of people who post in these threads who are compulsive gamblers and should try to cure the habit.
Gone to a better place
 
 
  • Post #6
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  • Sep 14, 2009 8:22am Sep 14, 2009 8:22am
  •  Mikhail Tegi
  • | Joined Sep 2009 | Status: Member | 16 Posts
smikester, I believe what was met by the word "gambling" is, I shall put it this way, the part and the scope of luck during trading, how strongly can one rely on logic and real analysis...
 
 
  • Post #7
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  • Sep 14, 2009 12:30pm Sep 14, 2009 12:30pm
  •  Slight
  • | Joined May 2008 | Status: Trenfollowing | 436 Posts
Yes, gambling seems to be something different to various kinds of people. Personally, I hear "gambling" and my mind is taken to Las Vegas' Casinos right away. So that's gambling for me. And trading sure as hell isn't like playing roulette (for me ).
The Essentials of Trading: Emotions, Risk Mgt, Price.
 
 
  • Post #8
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  • Sep 14, 2009 12:36pm Sep 14, 2009 12:36pm
  •  Dopey
  • Joined Apr 2005 | Status: Dopey Bastard | 1,568 Posts
Very interesting. The original post is gone, mine was second and it now shows that I was the thread originator.
 
 
  • Post #9
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  • Sep 14, 2009 12:40pm Sep 14, 2009 12:40pm
  •  mac1956
  • | Joined Jul 2009 | Status: Member | 990 Posts
Of course it's gambling. Every aspect of it is gambling even the analysis we attempt to control trades with can only stack odds and probablilities in our favour. Like the casino though, the best odds are on taking small, consistent profits rather than going for the huge payoffs. Consistency. It is possible to make a probable (note probable) consistent profit at Roulette on a wheel that is working perfectly with no biases. The key word is "possible" and "probable".

Using fancy euphemisms like 'speculator' and 'trader' as if it really is something different. I'm proud to be a forex gambler, and proud to be making a consistent profit out of it. The Forex doesn't give a shit what I call myself - it'll kill me as soon as I lose respect for it - it does not care however if I do or not.

GO FORTH AND GAMBLE WISELY - WITH YOUR HEAD HELD HIGH!
$urvive, Pre$erve & RESPECT THE TEACHER
 
 
  • Post #10
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  • Sep 14, 2009 5:17pm Sep 14, 2009 5:17pm
  •  Phil4x
  • | Joined Sep 2008 | Status: Member | 18 Posts
I don't recall exactly what the OP said about Forex and Gambling. It doesn't matter except that somehow he was gambling with his words and someone called his bluff...POOF game over.

Semantics arguements are so tedious.Where I live the legal definer on gambling is chance. If there is skill involved its not gambling (it may be difficult or stupid but not gambling).

SO, if I open a position and don't have an edge, I'm counting on luck.

Phil
 
 
  • Post #11
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  • Sep 14, 2009 6:19pm Sep 14, 2009 6:19pm
  •  billbss
  • Joined Apr 2006 | Status: Member | 4,301 Posts
Trading forex is gambling.
Trading stocks and futures is gambling.
 
 
  • Post #12
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  • Sep 14, 2009 6:22pm Sep 14, 2009 6:22pm
  •  hilmy83
  • Joined Jun 2006 | Status: Do NOT tilt | 5,708 Posts
Just because the outcome is not certain, it's gambling. Nothing in this world is certain. it's probablity.

So gambling is just negative probability..you'll lose in the long run

trading can have positive probability..that is if you got the skills, edge, mindset, etc etc.
Working towards CME membership
 
 
  • Post #13
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  • Sep 14, 2009 7:02pm Sep 14, 2009 7:02pm
  •  billbss
  • Joined Apr 2006 | Status: Member | 4,301 Posts
Quoting hilmy83
Disliked
Just because the outcome is not certain, it's gambling. Nothing in this world is certain. it's probablity.

So gambling is just negative probability..you'll lose in the long run

trading can have positive probability..that is if you got the skills, edge, mindset, etc etc.
Ignored
Gambling doesn't require a negative probability.
I can bet you even money on a coin toss. That isn't a negative probability, but it's gambling.
 
 
  • Post #14
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  • Sep 14, 2009 7:13pm Sep 14, 2009 7:13pm
  •  CHFJunkie
  • | Joined Oct 2007 | Status: member | 190 Posts
it depends on how you approach forex or any liquid market that you trade.
it's ur actions that separates gambling from trading.
If you act then you you think of the outcome ( impulsive trades?! ) , then u r gambling.
If you follow a plan , think , decide on your risk parameters , then you are trading the markets , or to be more precise your are speculating ( the right word to be used ).

traders ( speculators ) should know that the Fx market exisits for commercial interest , it's not there or were founded to amuse them or to follow their MA systems.
large corporates use it worldwide to provide liquidity to investors , traders ( car dealers , raw materials imp /exp , hedgers among them to protect their profits and banks to invest in currencies and buy bonds and such from governments ) .

this is what I believe to be moving the markets, and again it's our approach to the market and how we read it that decide who we are , Gamblers or speculators.

Regards
Enter Signature
 
 
  • Post #15
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  • Sep 14, 2009 8:00pm Sep 14, 2009 8:00pm
  •  TwoBuckChuck
  • | Commercial Member | Joined Jul 2009 | 184 Posts
Define gamble?

First rule of thumb, state what definition you are referring to, otherwise the debate is futile. I know the OP's post has disappeared, but I bet "gambling" was not adequately defined (quite common around here). You must define the terms in the context in which they are used. Otherwise it's a big fat (F)ail on the argument.

If it's "playing games of chance for money stake" (Oxford dictionary). No, trading is not gambling to most. Trading is a business, most people treat it as such (sure there are gambling traders by this definition). Most pro traders are not gamblers. They are conducting a business, not "playing games".

If it's the "risky undertaking" definition (Oxford dictionary). Then yes, it is gambling. By that definition, so is walking across the street, running a business, swimming in the ocean, driving a car, flying a plane or just life in itself is a "risky undertaking".
 
 
  • Post #16
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  • Sep 14, 2009 8:20pm Sep 14, 2009 8:20pm
  •  billbss
  • Joined Apr 2006 | Status: Member | 4,301 Posts
Miriam- Webster

Quote
Disliked
Gamble:

1 a : to play a game for money or property b : to bet on an uncertain outcome
2 : to stake something on a contingency : take a chance
To bet on an uncertain outcome - Unless you hit 100%, with each trade you risk money on an uncertain outcome.

Definition 2, also applies- To stake something on a contingency.


Trading forex is gambling.
 
 
  • Post #17
  • Quote
  • Sep 14, 2009 10:20pm Sep 14, 2009 10:20pm
  •  TwoBuckChuck
  • | Commercial Member | Joined Jul 2009 | 184 Posts
Quoting billbss
Disliked
....Trading forex is gambling.
Ignored
lol

I could also go "cherry picking" definitions to support the argument for and against.

Bottom line is that according to some definitions it is, and others it's not.

Go with whatever helps you sleep at night.
 
 
  • Post #18
  • Quote
  • Edited 3:36am Sep 15, 2009 2:14am | Edited 3:36am
  •  Mikhail Tegi
  • | Joined Sep 2009 | Status: Member | 16 Posts
so it appears that trading forex contains the element of gambling =) though people do realise that nomatter how much do they count on luck, as much depends on one's personal skills and expectations, morover much depends on the broker or a dealing centre which one deals with (let alone the market or correlated markets itself)...
 
 
  • Post #19
  • Quote
  • Sep 15, 2009 3:09am Sep 15, 2009 3:09am
  •  CindyXXXX
  • Joined Feb 2008 | Status: Member | 6,736 Posts
blah blah blah
Time hides Nothing
 
 
  • Post #20
  • Quote
  • Sep 15, 2009 4:15am Sep 15, 2009 4:15am
  •  mac1956
  • | Joined Jul 2009 | Status: Member | 990 Posts
Quoting CindyXXXX
Disliked
blah blah blah
Ignored
ROFL
$urvive, Pre$erve & RESPECT THE TEACHER
 
 
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