hi guys,
Can anyone tell me what's the differences btwn gambling and trading?
Can anyone tell me what's the differences btwn gambling and trading?
Gambling VS Trading 39 replies
What are similarities between trading and gambling? 286 replies
Trading IS Gambling... 46 replies
Forex Trading or Gambling 21 replies
trading or gambling? 14 replies
Quoting BlackshipDislikedhi guys,
Can anyone tell me what's the differences btwn gambling and trading?Ignored
Quoting BlackshipDislikedhi guys,
Can anyone tell me what's the differences btwn gambling and trading?Ignored
Quoting BlackshipDislikedhi guys,
Can anyone tell me what's the differences btwn gambling and trading?Ignored
Quoting hagadolDislikedNafara - I am going to tell the wife that too. Love it. She will have no arguement anymore !
Have a great weekend !
Hag.Ignored
Quoting MaryDislikedI get the feeling that your asking because your wife views forex as gambling. However, my background is in poker (I play for a living) and as I learn forex, I feel it gives me a great advantage. Things I already do to protect my bankroll with money management and calculating risk easily translate to the markets.
Keeping your emotions in check and sticking with your strategy also translate since with poker, the decisions I make in the game are +EV and although I receive the occasional badbeat, I know I will make money in the long run. I've already conditioned myself to play with in my means (the 2% br rule is universal) and my tolerance of risk is high (there's a saying that scared money is dead money).
I'm not defending gambling or proclaiming one is better than the other, I'm just saying, in my experience, they are very similar. One thing I can say of both, and I see it all the time, if you don't know what your doing, you will lose a lot of money.
As you can see, this is my first post. I am new to the forex game and I am amazed at the wealth of information on this forum. I hope to switch over to trading forex full-time. One thing I can say, trading forex gets a lot more respect than playing poker in the public's image.Ignored
Quoting ElectricSavantDislikedYou can't calculate chance...only in BlackJackIgnored
Quoting narafaDislikedIn gambling:
In trading:
- You are playing a game which affects the lives of people all over the world and which is closely related to almost all the events in the worldIgnored
QuoteDislikedIn trading:
- People are almost certain that the markets are tweaked to the favour of certain people, market makers and brokers, and they strongly believe that the markets contain a very large and hidden conspiracy, while they actually don't
Quoting FanatDislikedInteresting... What about 9/11 and Katrina??? How many people has it affected??? Apparently FX thought otherwise...Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedI politely disagree... Forex IS tweaked against you, and it is a FACT. Spread is against you, slippage is against you, occasional strong move is against you... Leverage is another reason why the market has to play against you.
95%+ of people lose in order to make FX exist (and brokers paid).Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedAnd why does almost every book published on trading is 99% carbon copy of the other??? I have read DOZENS of books, articles, etc on trading. I have heard many lectures... Yet they all seem to be rehash and repeat of each other with the only difference is the style they are presented in...Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedAnd beleive me, you cannot control your risk.... I have backtested many strategies on TICK BY TICK basis and there were times when price has crashed 100-200+ pips and rather than having lets say 10 sl (I played with many variables), it was full 200.
I also tested indicators... Funny thing that they failed BADLY, even if I reversed the entries....
Risk reward ratios also do not work well....Ignored
Quoting narafaDislikedSorry my friend but I think I can't understand what you are trying to say?? I was comparing that gambling is not affected or affecting almost anything in the world except the people inside the business and of course the players themselves...But gambling has nothing to do with the imports/exports, has nothing to do with huge companies hedging positions, has nothing to do with the real outer world...Ignored
QuoteDislikedTrading on the other hand has to do, if there is no one on the other side of a hedging trade, there won't be a hedge in the first place, and thus markets should be extremely illiquid...
QuoteDislikedIt's my turn to politely disagree..
QuoteDislikedThere is a difference between the rules of the game which everyone know and should take into consideration before actually being engaged in the game, and other hidden practices that can be made to make the percentage of winners a minimum...In trading, spread, slippage, strong moves, leverage and all other things are the rules of the game...If you accept them, then go ahead, play the game, if you don't accept them, just quit...
QuoteDislikedWhy FX is not tweaked against traders..?? I will tell you why...Because no body can control this market to tweak it to his favor...
QuoteDislikedEveryone is just a part of the whole big system, and really no one gives a shit who is on the other side of the trade...No body controls the market over the long term, on the short term, ya I might agree that the FX can be a little bit tweaked towards the favor of brokers and market makers, yet again, this is one of the rules of the game...Everyone know that the market is too big to be controlled by one single trader, but they know for sure that it can be controlled over the short term, or else, why do most traders avoid the asian session for example?? Because they know the volume is thin there and the possibility of manipulation is higher, so they simply avoid it, but you have 2 other sessions where the possibility of manipulation is at minimum....That's again one of the rules you get to know when you start trading the market, and many traders even know it from the very beginning...
QuoteDislikedIn gambling, when you play a slot machine, you can calculate probabilities, but what you don't know, is that the machine itself is programmed to even reduce those probabilities below the random level...That's what people are not convinced of, and most of them won't even believe it...The roulette wheel is the same, it can be adjusted with many many methods to go against most gamblers everytime, and thus everyone loses and the bank wins almost in 97% of the time..
QuoteDislikedSee what's the great difference between the slot machine and the markets....The markets don't work as a slot machine, they might have a little tweak in the short term, but for sure they are not engineered over the long term, you can't engineer a trend like the one of the recent USD/JPY and sustain it for over 3 months, this simply can't work out even if you have the wealth of the top 10 on the forbes combined...
QuoteDislikedWell, in my opinion, 99% of the books are the same because they tell traders and investors just what they want to know, not what is right for them to trade better...I also read a lot of books, they almost told the same things..I read about Technical Analysis, about 3 books, all were almost the same...I read about candlesticks, 1 book and a couple of websites, they all tell the same patterns and the same things, they are all telling what everyone wants to know, but this is not essentially correct...
QuoteDislikedBooks that don't tell the same things as others are "Market Wizards" and "Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom"...Those 2 books are remarkeable...They are telling everyone what you need to know to correctly make it through in this type of business, they are not telling how, you have to discover yourself, because everyone has his own way of doing it, you can't be a grand master in chess unless you have your own unique strategies and methods...
QuoteDislikedThe chess board is never just pieces alone, it's a complete strategy, attack, defense, maneuver, psychology, and many other things that you have to consider to consitently win and make it...It doesn't make you a great player to know how pieces can move on the board, everyone knows how to move pieces the correct way, it doesn't make you successful to implement a strategy that is not right to be used with your opponent or is not right for you, but it makes you successful to make innovative moves with harmony between your pieces and in context with the whole situation...It doesn't make you successful to ignore your strengths and weakneses, if you master playing the whole game with your queen alive, then you should do everything possible throughout the game to keep the queen alive, or else, you know you are in big trouble...
QuoteDislikedBacktesting systems have in my opinion a major drawback, they don't factor in news and economic reports, you actually can't factor them....For example, the 1 Hour tunnel trading system avoids opening positions on the NFP day...If a position is open, it's left as it is, no problem, but if there were no position, and we are on the NFP day, no positions are allowed...That's a very imporant setup for the system, because if it is ignored, it can destroy the whole performance of the system...
QuoteDislikedJust to tell you something as well, I came up with a very simple trading system before, and formulated it, and one of the members here volunteered to backtest it for me in TradeStation...It was tested for the EUR/USD pair for the data of the past 2 years, tick by tick, this was in mid 2005, so the testing data was mid-2003 to mid-2005...Guess what, the system is profitable for those 2 years, long trades and short trades both returned a profit and I have the test results as a proof for that I can't remember more details about the results, but overall, the system was doing fine..So, there is actually profitable systems out there, everyone can find one to work with...
QuoteDislikedWhen you say that you tested indicators and they fail, this is normal, even if you reverse the entries, this is still logical...Because the issue is not the entries, it's the exits that make the difference...
QuoteDislikedThanks,
Nader
Quoting FanatDislikedWhat I've tried to say is that sometimes currency exchange rates seem as connected to the world as casinos... (Sometimes, not always). I mean during 9/11 currencies didn't move what they should have... Katrina didn't send USD trending down (infact very soon USD started to grow like crazy). There have been times when interest rates caused the currency to move hard in the OTHER direction, etc etc.Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedSince 90+% of traders lose and their loses usually go to the brokers, I think that you will not find it difficult to know who wants to be on the other side (hey it is safe!!).Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedIn disagreement we can arrive at the truthIgnored
Quoting FanatDislikedI am sorry I was not eloquent enough. When I was talking about rules, I was more talking about actual price mechanics and the theory behind the forex. I was not talking about commonly know and tought characteristics. I was talking about the purpose and how it can be made workable in the forex market for those who made it so.Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedCould you please justify this? When you are trading equities or products such as soybeans, you have tangiable thing. You can eat soybeans. You can use gold... Can you eat exchange rates? It is just a bunch of abstract numbers!!!Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedSince Forex is electronic market (not physical), since all brokers use about the same datafeed (it would be disadvantageous for them to stray too far off the price due to arbitrage opportunities), there is a central exchange rate. It doesn't take much to figure out that computer is programmed by people... It can be controled (it has too).Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedSpread in the forex....Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedWhy does there have to be wealth???? Just tell the computer to quote lowering prices!!! Who is going to check how many flying ""virtual exchange rate contracts there is" ??!!!! Even top level economic statistics is falsified!!!Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedThe more people fail, the more money they will give away to the organizers.Ignored
Quoting FanatDisliked2 books out of HOW MANY TRADING BOOKS EVER PUBLISHED?Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedThat is what I was asking in this post. The pieces moving are indicators... The chessboard is forex, the player on the other side is/are..., and what are the rules???!!!!Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedI was actually thinking about that too...Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedWhat about testing on out of sample data?Ignored
Quoting FanatDislikedI agree 100% that exits are important. But what I was testing was that after an indicator gave a signal, how likely will it be to move 20,50 (and so on) pips in that direction vs in the opposite direction and triggering stop loss. The idea is that if the indicator is good, then it should signal before strong movement occurs (or atleast finishes).Ignored
Quoting merlinDislikedif you are betting with an edge, then you are investing. if you are betting without an edge, you are gambling. thats how i always saw it...
so i dont consider playing poker gambling, because you can actaully have an edge. counting cards in blackjack is also not gambling, becuase again you can get an edge.Ignored