Sam is a good trader, he taught me the ‘Sammy ‘ Oil Inventories Trade, and whenever we compare entries he always seems to have a better one than me – sometimes even better than Ray’s. I know that Sam trades multi-unit, multi-target on the Futures markets, mainly Bonds and Oil and I had seen him in my Forex Factory thread when I was posting things. So I asked for feedback on my documents.
I have corrected some typos in the following:
(04:02 am) Ian Foster: Only Scalpers need a 'Perfect Entry' and even they really need to use Multi-unit and Multi-Target in order to make it work properly.
(04:17 am) Sam D.: Agree on that, Ian. If your account is too small to trade more than just 1 futures contract then just don't do it. Trade CFDs or spot forex instead. [Here Captain Obvious speaking!] If you trade multiple lots/contracts always have a first target close by in. Like on oil 10 ticks or on Bonds 3-4 ticks and have your stop to BE then. Put your ego aside thinking 'I have to be right'. And be patient and alert when you are in a trade. When you are in a trade and your first target is NOT met yet but you see the value shifting then just close the trade or bump up your SL to BE. I will do the last option.
(05:23 am) Sam Van Doorn: Ian, about the document. I trust you about all the numbers you mentioned are correct. To me the important things in trading is
1. Just push the f*cking button and
2. Be disciplined in what you do. Don't make exceptions for your ego.
I always have the first targets really close to the entry. I never set goals for the day like having a pip/tick target or percentage target.
I never get when people saying I have reached my daily target and stop trading for that day/week. First that's not 'professional' and second when you are in a good flow try to stay in it. Sometimes you have some of these days that whatever you do it is profitable. So you must be really STUPID to stop then. Also setting a daily target can make you see opportunities that really are not. Besides that the stress it will give you.
Also besides the targets close by I will always take profits at levels, like SR levels, wholesale levels. I will never look at percentages win/loss but that's personal.
(05:24 am) Sam D.: I also don't want to know how much I am in profit or loss at the moment. That will be psychologically too much info for me and will influence my decisions.
(05:52 am) Ian Foster: @Sam: Thanks. Yes we are very different regarding watching %win and current P&L. Though I don't pay much attention to current P&L, just in which direction it is going. But for my style I need the win% to tell me how well in tune I am with the markets.. If it tells me that I am not much in tune, then I will start to only take the better scoring (higher quality) trades, or reduce the risk by reducing the number of levels used for potential entries.
However I didn't mention any of that stuff in the documents, but more in the other chat. So it seems you agree with the concept of the Inst Style Trade Mgmt document, but didn't check the numbers. Not surprising that you didn't check the numbers since the concept is what matters and the numbers are just a theoretical example.
Note that Sam mentioned multiple targets, but not multiple entries. So he probably doesn’t need to use multiple entry levels because his one-time multi-unit entries are so good in the first place.
I am not that good a trader and in any case suffer from the reduced accuracy of the Spot and CFD markets, so I make up for that by using multiple entry levels.
I have corrected some typos in the following:
(04:02 am) Ian Foster: Only Scalpers need a 'Perfect Entry' and even they really need to use Multi-unit and Multi-Target in order to make it work properly.
(04:17 am) Sam D.: Agree on that, Ian. If your account is too small to trade more than just 1 futures contract then just don't do it. Trade CFDs or spot forex instead. [Here Captain Obvious speaking!] If you trade multiple lots/contracts always have a first target close by in. Like on oil 10 ticks or on Bonds 3-4 ticks and have your stop to BE then. Put your ego aside thinking 'I have to be right'. And be patient and alert when you are in a trade. When you are in a trade and your first target is NOT met yet but you see the value shifting then just close the trade or bump up your SL to BE. I will do the last option.
(05:23 am) Sam Van Doorn: Ian, about the document. I trust you about all the numbers you mentioned are correct. To me the important things in trading is
1. Just push the f*cking button and
2. Be disciplined in what you do. Don't make exceptions for your ego.
I always have the first targets really close to the entry. I never set goals for the day like having a pip/tick target or percentage target.
I never get when people saying I have reached my daily target and stop trading for that day/week. First that's not 'professional' and second when you are in a good flow try to stay in it. Sometimes you have some of these days that whatever you do it is profitable. So you must be really STUPID to stop then. Also setting a daily target can make you see opportunities that really are not. Besides that the stress it will give you.
Also besides the targets close by I will always take profits at levels, like SR levels, wholesale levels. I will never look at percentages win/loss but that's personal.
(05:24 am) Sam D.: I also don't want to know how much I am in profit or loss at the moment. That will be psychologically too much info for me and will influence my decisions.
(05:52 am) Ian Foster: @Sam: Thanks. Yes we are very different regarding watching %win and current P&L. Though I don't pay much attention to current P&L, just in which direction it is going. But for my style I need the win% to tell me how well in tune I am with the markets.. If it tells me that I am not much in tune, then I will start to only take the better scoring (higher quality) trades, or reduce the risk by reducing the number of levels used for potential entries.
However I didn't mention any of that stuff in the documents, but more in the other chat. So it seems you agree with the concept of the Inst Style Trade Mgmt document, but didn't check the numbers. Not surprising that you didn't check the numbers since the concept is what matters and the numbers are just a theoretical example.
Note that Sam mentioned multiple targets, but not multiple entries. So he probably doesn’t need to use multiple entry levels because his one-time multi-unit entries are so good in the first place.
I am not that good a trader and in any case suffer from the reduced accuracy of the Spot and CFD markets, so I make up for that by using multiple entry levels.