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  • UK's HOL approves law which would force Johnson to seek a delay to Brexit

Added at 10:44am

Added at 10:44am

Is there anything to stop the EU from saying "You've proven yourselves to be consistently useless and we don't believe you'll ever change, as such we're not allowing another extension?"
The EU says non, nine, niet then what? WE voted OUT. Listen to the people.
Quoting normalperson
Is there anything to stop the EU from saying "You've proven yourselves to be consistently useless and we don't believe you'll ever change, as such we're not allowing another extension?"
extension will be accepted , dont live in illusion. no one interrest to have no-deal
The referendum was unconditional. 17.4 million voted to leave. Parliament is supposed to carry out the will of the people. You do not remove any negotiating tool off the table, else the other side has all of the negotiating power. Now Boris has no negotiating power. The EU has all of the negotiating power and dictates the terms of the deal. Unbelievable.
Don't wait for the wind, take to the oars.
Quoting Pleiadian
The referendum was unconditional. 17.4 million voted to leave. Parliament is supposed to carry out the will of the people. You do not remove any negotiating tool off the table, else the other side has all of the negotiating power. Now Boris has no negotiating power. The EU has all of the negotiating power and dictates the terms of the deal. Unbelievable.
Johnson looks like he'll be digging ditches then. "Dominic hand me the shovel!"
Quoting Lamplighter
{quote} Johnson looks like he'll be digging ditches then. "Dominic hand me the shovel!"
Parliament is full of incompetent fools, who need to be held to account. Traitors
Don't wait for the wind, take to the oars.
Quoting Pleiadian
The referendum was unconditional. 17.4 million voted to leave. Parliament is supposed to carry out the will of the people. You do not remove any negotiating tool off the table, else the other side has all of the negotiating power. Now Boris has no negotiating power. The EU has all of the negotiating power and dictates the terms of the deal. Unbelievable.
With respect sir.. You completely misunderstand the constitution of your own country... the nature and scope of the 2016 Referendum in its binding power, and the entire UK concept of representative democracy.
And also with respect entirely misunderstand the asymmetric negotiation power of the EU.
The UK No-Deal threat strategy means diddly-squat.

GBP..watch for possible higher close when bill is finalised in commons this evening.
But not really worth trading.
Warning: A Dangerous Subversive: 1% of comments CoCed
Quoting Ghass1234
{quote} extension will be accepted , dont live in illusion. no one interrest to have no-deal
A "No Deal"l is a negotiating tool, a leverage in negotiations for better terms! In any negotiations if the terms are not favourable and do not meet your bottom line you walk away. i.e. "No Deal"
Don't wait for the wind, take to the oars.
Quoting RossEdwards
{quote} With respect sir.. You completely misunderstand the constitution of your own country... the nature and scope of the 2016 Referendum in its binding power, and the entire UK concept of representative democracy. And also with respect entirely misunderstand the asymmetric negotiation power of the EU. The UK No-Deal threat strategy means diddly-squat. GBP..watch for possible higher close when bill is finalised in commons this evening. But not really worth trading.
You are suffering from verbal diarrhoea. In plain English that is BS.
Don't wait for the wind, take to the oars.
He doesn't miss understand it
you do!
stop highlighting the law against what was promised are you that silly.
9 million leaflets went out to every household.
Over 3 million people who never voted before engaged in that vote
Think about what you're saying

Quoting RossEdwards
{quote} With respect sir.. You completely misunderstand the constitution of your own country... the nature and scope of the 2016 Referendum in its binding power, and the entire UK concept of representative democracy. And also with respect entirely misunderstand the asymmetric negotiation power of the EU. The UK No-Deal threat strategy means diddly-squat. GBP..watch for possible higher close when bill is finalised in commons this evening. But not really worth trading.
#doyourownanalysisordietryin
Quoting Pleiadian
The referendum was unconditional. 17.4 million voted to leave. Parliament is supposed to carry out the will of the people. You do not remove any negotiating tool off the table, else the other side has all of the negotiating power. Now Boris has no negotiating power. The EU has all of the negotiating power and dictates the terms of the deal. Unbelievable.

Just out of interest: do you realise that Wales will lose more on Brexit than any other part of the country?
Quoting Pleiadian
{quote} A "No Deal"l is a negotiating tool, a leverage in negotiations for better terms! In any negotiations if the terms are not favourable and do not meet your bottom line you walk away. i.e. "No Deal"
This is where you are fundamentally wrong. You enter negotiations because you are interested in something the other side has to offer and vice versa. It is counterproductive, therefore stupid to pretend otherwise. What would be the point to waste time, resources and energy on negotiating something you can easily do without?
Negotiation is cooperation, not confrontation.
times the enemy of the referendum, I think even Labour is remain,lol
Inserted Video
#doyourownanalysisordietryin
Ludicrous

Quoting xy76
{quote} This is where you are fundamentally wrong. You enter negotiations because you are interested in something the other side has to offer and vice versa. It is counterproductive, therefore stupid to pretend otherwise. What would be the point to waste time, resources and energy on negotiating something you can easily do without? Negotiation is cooperation, not confrontation.
#doyourownanalysisordietryin
Quoting Bones
Ludicrous {quote}
Have you ever tried to run any serious business in your life?
Yes, I have had a business 12 years why?
The reason no deal is so important is its the only card left after Mays disastrous negotiations
Quoting xy76
{quote} Have you ever tried to run any serious business in your life?
#doyourownanalysisordietryin
Your saying to me you would enter into a negotiation, that you had to take one way or the other
no matter what
Quoting xy76
{quote} Have you ever tried to run any serious business in your life?
#doyourownanalysisordietryin
BTW that's also the problem with the backstop there's no way out
That's the real reason it exists
#doyourownanalysisordietryin
Quoting Bones
Yes, I have had a business 12 years why? The reason no deal is so important is its the only card left after Mays disastrous negotiations {quote}
Because you come across as a typical non-working class individual living his entire life on taxpayer's money, no offence.
Such 'wisdoms' about negotiating are just BS.
Posturing is good for scammers, like the current POTUS and our PM. At some point, the EU will just tell us: you do not really need that deal? Fine, have it your way! In fact this is what they are telling us for quite a some time. What now, then, are we going to throw another tantrum? It never impress serious players, such as EU.
Quoting Bones
BTW that's also the problem with the backstop there's no way out That's the real reason it exists

There is a very simple way out: to negotiate a deal which is satisfactory for both parties, which means: to reach a compromise.
lol
ok let me ask
are you a businessman haha

Quoting xy76
{quote} Because you come across as a typical non-working class individual living his entire life on taxpayer's money, no offence. Such 'wisdoms' about negotiating are just BS. Posturing is good for scammers, like the current POTUS and our PM. At some point, the EU will just tell us: you do not really need that deal? Fine, have it your way! In fact this is what they are telling us for quite a some time. What now, then, are we going to throw another tantrum? It never impress serious players, such as EU.
#doyourownanalysisordietryin
I guarantee
you have a job and always had a job whatever you say
#doyourownanalysisordietryin
Quoting xy76
{quote} Just out of interest: do you realise that Wales will lose more on Brexit than any other part of the country?
I don't live in Wales !

Do you know the implications of Bail In ?

Do you know the implications of Target 2 ?

Do you know the implications of EU Military Unification also known as European Defence Union ?
Don't wait for the wind, take to the oars.
EU will never compromise while holding Mays deal and no negotiating position on the Uk side
They want us to bring back a deal that failed the worst defeat in history, That deal 'as is' will never ever pass
Let me know how that is resolved

Quoting xy76
{quote} There is a very simple way out: to negotiate a deal which is satisfactory for both parties, which means: to reach a compromise.
#doyourownanalysisordietryin
Quoting Bones
lol ok let me ask are you a businessman haha {quote}

I have been involved in a number of successful enterprises, run some of them as well, so yes, I can call myself one.
Quoting Bones
I guarantee you have a job and always had a job whatever you say
Are you having a meltdown? Speak English, please:-)
Quoting Pleiadian
{quote} I don't live in Wales ! Do you know the implications of Bail In ? Do you know the implications of Target 2 ? Do you know the implications of EU Military Unification also known as European Defence Union ?
I know for sure that reading too much yellow press and watching conspiracy theories movies on yt cooks human brains.
Quoting Bones
EU will never compromise while holding Mays deal and no negotiating position on the Uk side They want us to bring back a deal that failed the worst defeat in history, That deal 'as is' will never ever pass Let me know how that is resolved {quote}

EU will never fulfill fantasies of deluded lunatics, that is for sure. Why should they? They have been waiting to speak to an adult, ever since the referendum.
Quoting xy76
{quote} I know for sure that reading too much yellow press and watching conspiracy theories movies on yt cooks human brains.
You have no idea of what you are talking about !

A cowardly reply. You do not know any of the answers !

This will get you started, the rest of the answers you can do your own research. Here is a document from the European Commission.

Truth changes the world you used to live in!

https://ec.europa.eu/epsc/sites/epsc...fenceunion.pdf
Don't wait for the wind, take to the oars.
Quoting Pleiadian
{quote} A cowardly reply. You do not know any of the answers ! This will get you started, the rest of the answers you can do your own research. Here is a document from the European Commission. Truth changes the world you used to live in! https://ec.europa.eu/epsc/sites/epsc...fenceunion.pdf
'Cowardly'? Is it you, Boris?

I know what these are, but you, my friend, are facing a choice. You can either go on explaining why do you think bail in, target 2 and european defence are such an evil - or jog on.
Quoting xy76
{quote} 'Cowardly'? Is it you, Boris? I know what these are, but you, my friend, are facing a choice. You can either go on explaining why do you think bail in, tier 2 and european defence are such an evil - or jog on.
You don't have a clue on any of my questions. Also it is not tier 2..........clueless, it is known as Target 2

Truth changes the world that you used to live in.
Don't wait for the wind, take to the oars.
Quoting Pleiadian
{quote} You don't have a clue on any of my questions. Also it is not tier 2..........clueless, it is known as Target 2 Truth changes the world that you used to live in.
Yeah, I made a typo, or rather my phone's keyboard did. Glad you stay vigilant.
The question remains unanswered, though: why are you so affraid of these? Is this because Viscunt Rothermere and Rupert Murdick said you should be?
@XY76..
You are wasting your time with this discussion.

May didnt screw up, she and the UK never had the cards. The asymmetrical advantages and misunderstood priorities of their counterparty was never realised at the political level. And even when it was, never revealed to the british people because it was impolitic.. Goves famous faux pas " we hold all the cards" left most informed players gobsmacked.. since it indicated that he either hadnt a fkucing clue or was a consimate lier.As was his faux attack on informed opinion.. with the in-famous "Britons have had enough of experts. (What an idiot) But I still dont know. Fool or con man. . I suspect the latter.
Some old EU hands in the diplomatic and trade services tried to quietly warn the government but they were quickly retired and silenced as nay-sayers.

Whats unreal is that so many dont understand going forward, is that leaving with No-Deal on what ever day, the day after, will leave the UK with EXACTLY the same negotiating conditions, issues and problems as they had the day before... just that at that stage the gloves will be truly off and the full force of the power asymmetry will become obvious... an their negotiation position will be seriously depleted.

Look..- it maybe incomprehensible to some folks so let them get on with it. and maybe best leave it for now. What will be will be.
Our job is to make money from the fallout .. on every level including Fx. So Lets get on with that.
Endless redux of all the reasons justifications and ideology for Brexit with "Believers" is just a waste of time.
Warning: A Dangerous Subversive: 1% of comments CoCed
Quoting RossEdwards
@XY76.. You are wasting your time with this discussion. May didnt screw up, she and the UK never had the cards. The asymmetrical advantages and misunderstood priorities of their counterparty was never realised at the political level. And even when it was, never revealed to the british people because it was impolitic.. Goves famous faux pas " we hold all the cards" left most informed players gobsmacked.. since it indicated that he either hadnt a fkucing clue or was a consimate lier.As was his faux attack on informed opinion.. with the in-famous...
Do not get me started on this one. Most dot not even have a frickin' clue that the WA is not the actual deal with the EU and the latter WILL HAVE TO BE negotiated with the EU following Brexit anyway, WA or not. The difference is that without WA, our starting position will be much weaker.
May is as guilty as any of them. She called that idiotic election, she sent that imbecil Davies to Brussels so he could pretend negotiating, she was too narrow-minded to understand that she could note rely on DUP and her party alone to push ANY kind of WA through the parliament. I had high hopes when she took over PM's office . Her idea of resuscitating state grammar schools system was nothing short of brilliant. That did not last long, though.
You really believe that.
Remain lost and will again, all you're typing will be in vain.
But you're still be crying unfair somehow.Picking through statistics fault finding to figure out why.

Quoting xy76
{quote} Do not get me started on this one. Most dot not even have a frickin' clue that the WA is not the actual deal with the EU and the latter WILL HAVE TO BE negotiated with the EU following Brexit anyway, WA or not. The difference is that without WA, our starting position will be much weaker. May is as guilty as any of them. She called that idiotic election, she sent that imbecil Davies to Brussels so he could pretend negotiating, she was too narrow-minded to understand that she could note rely on DUP and her party alone to push ANY kind...
#doyourownanalysisordietryin
Cliff
Ross's brother apparently.
Had a whole thread dedicated to remain winning ...all the polls and vital info.
He knows his onions.
#doyourownanalysisordietryin
I need to put this thread aside for Christmas reading and a swear dictionary. Interesting number of comments compared to any other 'news'. As BJ investigates his hat for missing rabbit am losing all my excitement about late October. This is where I came in goes an old saying.
Quoting Pleiadian
{quote} A "No Deal"l is a negotiating tool, a leverage in negotiations for better terms! In any negotiations if the terms are not favourable and do not meet your bottom line you walk away. i.e. "No Deal"
It's not a negotiating tool because the EU know that Britain will want some sort of a deal at some point.
That means that no-deal is BS and only shoots Britain in the economic foot.

RossEdwards has got it right. The situation is slanted heavily in the EU's favour.
SyntaxFX
Quoting syntaxfx
{quote} It's not a negotiating tool because the EU know that Britain will want some sort of a deal at some point. That means that no-deal is BS and only shoots Britain in the economic foot. RossEdwards has got it right. The situation is slanted heavily in the EU's favour.
Bolderdash ! The EU is terrified of a No Deal.
Don't wait for the wind, take to the oars.
Quoting xy76
{quote} Do not get me started on this one. Most dot not even have a frickin' clue that the WA is not the actual deal with the EU and the latter WILL HAVE TO BE negotiated with the EU following Brexit anyway, WA or not. The difference is that without WA, our starting position will be much weaker. May is as guilty as any of them. She called that idiotic election, she sent that imbecil Davies to Brussels so he could pretend negotiating, she was too narrow-minded to understand that she could note rely on DUP and her party alone to push ANY kind of WA...
And therein lies the rub. With May's WA, there is no incentive for EU to negotiate anything after Brexit but can just sit back, refuse everything out of hand and UK are trapped. Without a WA UK might appear weaker but are at least a free agent to deal on an ongoing basis with anyone they choose. The real issue isn't whether there is a WA but rather at what cost to the UK both short and long term.

The short term costs are disruption, some sag in economic activity and changes to the fabric of our industries in the short term. These effects would be reduced but not eradicated by the WA, but then UK enters a kind of twightlight zone / groundhog day screnario where nothing can be done to improve and no further forwards movement can be achieved unless EU decide to relinquish.

The long term costs become much more apparent once stuck in the Groundhog day scenario where no further movement can be achieved by UK and nothing can change or improve. That means that UK can not be dynamic and has no control over it's future until EU decides (if ever) to let go. The short term potential economic advantages become long term economic shackles with no possibility of escape. Again these effects are reduced significantly by being unencumbered while leaving and being a free agent to forge an economic future that better suits both our economic cycle, but eneables us to operate within a global economy. The starting point would be less good, but the opportunities would be much better once the initial turmoil has subsided.

So there are pro's and con's to both sides of the argument. Those that harp on short-term exigencies miss a whole plethora of opportunity after the inevitable turmoil, (turmoil that will occur with or without a WA), and those that stare solely out at the longer term vista fail to see the (undeniably important) short term disruption and the dangers that poses whether there is a WA or not.
Quoting Pleiadian
{quote} Bolderdash ! The EU is terrified of a No Deal.
I'd suggest that the only thing worrying the EU is the Northern Ireland border.
If they don't get what's in the backstop (or something better) then "no-deal" is fine with them. They've already made it clear that they don't want to "reward" departures.

Britain is the one that can't articulate clearly what it wants (as evidenced by the paralysis in the parliament).
When you're not absolutely clear what you want out of a deal, you're at the mercy of those that are.

A lot of companies are already moving their HQ from Britain to Europe, simply to get certainty around their access to European markets. The more of those that move, the less Britain has in the way of bargaining chips.

It's messier now that that the anti no-deal legislation has passed, but the EU has known what they want for a long time now and will hold to it.

It's bit like trading without well defined goals and rules. The outcome is no better than day at the casino. The casino is more likely to win.
SyntaxFX
Quoting syntaxfx
{quote}. A lot of companies are already moving their HQ from Britain...
The reason that companies move their HQ from Britain to Europe is for tax purposes then add the letters SARL at the end of their company name. All billing / invoicing is then done from their European SARL headquarters

Honeywell used to have their European headquarters in Bracknell in the UK. About 10 years ago they moved their European headquarter to Switzerland, long before any EU referendum. Any services provided in the UK were then Billed/Invoiced from Switzerland.

UK could encourage companies to move to the UK by making corporate tax one of the most competitive and attractive, currently 19% and 18% in the new tax year in April 2020
Don't wait for the wind, take to the oars.
Does the UK want globalist pinheads in Brussels ordering them around? And does the EU really want to be greatly weakened by dumping and disowning a MAJOR player their economy will still desperately need with or without Brexit? The UK has the upper hand despite all the crybaby hoopla from the cowardly naysayers.
Quoting Maxthetrader
Does the UK want globalist pinheads in Brussels ordering them around? And does the EU really want to be greatly weakened by dumping and disowning a MAJOR player their economy will still desperately need with or without Brexit? The UK has the upper hand despite all the crybaby hoopla from the cowardly naysayers.

I hear what you are saying. The EU, Brussels, has shown themselves in their true colours during the Brexit negotiations with their behaviour towards the UK. There is nothing honourable in their dealings.
Don't wait for the wind, take to the oars.
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  • Posted: Sep 6, 2019 10:42am
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