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  • Want to Succeed at Forex Trading? Learn to Avoid It First

    From dailypriceaction.com

    Why do so few succeed at Forex trading? The answer to this question is incredibly subjective. Some will say it’s because the market is rigged for us to fail, or that retail traders don’t have sufficient resources to compete. There may be some truth to those, particularly the first. It’s no secret that the odds aren’t in our favor. Otherwise, there would be a lot more profitable retail traders out there. But here’s the thing…Those are just excuses. They may offer some insight into why success is so elusive, but they are not the real reason why so many fail. Want to know the only reason so many Forex retail ... (full story)

Not wanting to be cynical, but ... Retail traders giving up is the last thing the forex industry wants.
They might even get the notion of getting a real job and make real money...
Well now, I am sure retail traders will stay the course ... another crashed account is just "another challenge along the way".
Keep swimming the water is fine...
Quoting Mingary
Not wanting to be cynical, but ... Retail traders giving up is the last thing the forex industry wants. They might even get the notion of getting a real job and make real money... Thank you for this article I am sure retail traders will stay the course ... another crashed account is just another challenge along the way. Keep swimming the water is fine...
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
Never Give Up! Never Surrender!
This is my view,

Retail traders think it is a quick money making, they think if they have done some 1 week course, they are well educated in the Financial market, I have seen it over and over. What happened to the rules, of study and learn. What I mean by that is print out the chart on paper and study the chart and then add the other news on top of the chart. Only then will you see market moves before it happens. And the other thing is undercapitalized, you cant make money with a 50$ account, and not take Risk in to account.

Just my view
He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat - Napoleon Bonaparte
"If you don't have a competitive advantage don't compete"
"If your not working on finding an edge someone else is"
Article is completely misunderstanding and missleading main point of retail FX - at this Seminar it is rather explained, why the industry was made at the first place for retails to blow accounts and this all is legal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7G0OfJUON8

Anton Kreil, is one of the real guys our days, who dare to speak things as they are.
Quoting TCentral
Article is completely misunderstanding and missleading main point of retail FX - at this Seminar it is rather explained, why the industry was made at the first place for retails to blow accounts and this all is legal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7G0OfJUON8 Anton Kreil, is one of the real guys our days, who dare to speak things as they are.
Finally someone who will show us how it's done. I'll buy his course then (; (;
I can tell you this. The months that I manage my risk correctly I make money and when I don't I lose. Keep a journal. Take time to sit down and really think. Take care of your mind and body. Yes the markets are rigged, and if you don't know how they are rigged AND how to exploit that you will lose regardless. And last but not least pay your tuition, i have a 6 figure income from my job but it took me about 4-5 years to get there, I didn't expect anything else from this.
Quoting chrizianoFX
I can tell you this. The months that I manage my risk correctly I make money and when I don't I lose. Keep a journal. Take time to sit down and really think. Take care of your mind and body. Yes the markets are rigged, and if you don't know how they are rigged AND how to exploit that you will lose regardless. And last but not least pay your tuition, i have a 6 figure income from my job but it took me about 4-5 years to get there, I didn't expect anything else from this.
You couldn't put it better. The retail traders in general want to see fast gains, make money in every trade and in general do not follow his/her strategy(if they have one). They keep changing strategies and don't have the discipline to wait for the market to show a possible trade. One thing I add in my trading strategy is when I find a possible trade and open an order I close the platform and only re-open when a new candle is about to open. Doing that I use my time to do other things without the stress in looking if the price will move against me. Discipline is one of the keys to succeed in this market.
Quoting TCentral
Article is completely misunderstanding and missleading main point of retail FX - at this Seminar it is rather explained, why the industry was made at the first place for retails to blow accounts and this all is legal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7G0OfJUON8 Anton Kreil, is one of the real guys our days, who dare to speak things as they are.
Whoever being trading Forex for more than 4 years should know already how the market works and it is always against us but there is a lot of reliable information on the net that helps us, retail traders, to minimize our risks and get some money from the markets. We all should know that the money we can make is proportional to the size of our accounts and the risk we decide to take. Everything he said is already known and he is not wrong but at the end of the day his main goal is to sell his trading course.
Six thoughts on this subject:

(1) FX trading is hard work. FX day-trading is particularly hard work. Anyone who thinks it is easy money will fail. The trader needs a high degree of skill, which takes years to develop.

(2) The average trader will need to invest around 2 years in studying his chosen pair before he even thinks of investing money. FX trading is hard work!

(3) The markets aren't rigged (though some disreputable brokers/spread bet providers may be). The markets couldn't care less about retail traders.

(4) The trader is NOT trying to predict the future. The trader is simply trying to see what the professionals are doing and to hop on for a ride - for a SHORT ride, because he will hop off again long before the move is over.

(5) For GBPUSD at least, there is generally only one significant move in a day. Identify it, hop on, hop off EARLY with your profit, shut down your computer and do something more interesting. TRADING IS BORING. If you think it is fun or interesting or enjoyable, you're a gambler and shouldn't go near it. Trading should be boring.

(6) Risk management is at least as important as the trading skills themselves. Follow the rules or get wiped out.
Great post. How is it misleading? Do you have conflict of interest? Show your post.
I think its 1st and foremost got to do with mindset. The right mindset as far as your perception of the forex market risk management and trading capitol. The problem is most traders are way under funded in comparison to their goal targets..

Trying to make a living off $1000 is just not sustainable. I have meet a few traders that are profitable. These traders have had 10 plus years experience and trade in a very mechanical way.. One trait of this is trading with well over $100k using no leverage and trading pairs with a positive swap..
20 Pips a day keeps centerlink away
Quoting PaulDaemon
I think its 1st and foremost got to do with mindset. The right mindset as far as your perception of the forex market risk management and trading capitol. The problem is most traders are way under funded in comparison to their goal targets.. Trying to make a living off $1000 is just not sustainable. I have meet a few traders that are profitable. These traders have had 10 plus years experience and trade in a very mechanical way.. One trait of this is trading with well over $100k using no leverage and trading pairs with a positive swap..
i just love the positive swaps
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
The forex market is the best and cruelest teacher retail trading is just like playing poker with small chip with high risk high roller tables no chance .
great article!
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The "right mindsets" means all and nothing at the same time.
Being successful in trading is a phenomenon, that can only be analysed appropriately (like any other phenomenon in this world) by scientific means. Of course it is difficult by itself but nevertheless not impossible.

From my point of view there are 4 interconnected success factors for any trader making money consistently:

1. Having the right market PARADIGM
2. Having the right ideas of valid PATTERNS
3. Having the right idea about how to recalibrate their VALIDITY constantly
4. Having an appropriate updating WORKFLOW for all of the above

If you fail on one of these factors you will fail completely in the long run.
Quoting TCentral
Article is completely misunderstanding and missleading main point of retail FX - at this Seminar it is rather explained, why the industry was made at the first place for retails to blow accounts and this all is legal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7G0OfJUON8 Anton Kreil, is one of the real guys our days, who dare to speak things as they are.
Thanks TCentral for sharing this video: I found very interesting infos about the trading industry!
because most trader learn from failure trader....

The wrong information distribute among the player...

when u learn the wrong concept...u will failed the rest of the day...

u failed to understand the underlying of market...

no wonder...uninformed player...
Made in Malaysia <3
good .I quite agree
"Learn to avoid it first" - quite right. But learn to avoid it altogether and trade the indexes instead.
Its a Cruel Market which Never has Emotions.....So to Trade keep Aside Yours too
every bird sings his own song.
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
Read Vladimir’s interview and see his account statement to make your own success story:

How long have you been trading?
I started trading in August 2015.
How did you get involved in Forex trading?
One of my friends once told me that it is impossible to earn money on trading the Forex market. After that I realised that I had to learn it.
What is your trading style?
My strategy is mainly based on technical analysis. Generally, I use my own EAs.
Do you practice risk management?
It depends on the account. In some accounts, I use very risky strategies and risk management. In some other accounts, I don’t.
What are some good habits smart traders develop?
I think that the first and most important thing is to understand risk. The markets are completely unpredictable and anyone who thinks that they are 100% predictable are wrong!
Describe your best/most memorable trade (How much did you profit? What was the strategy? What pair?)
I haven’t had a memorable trade yet. My maximum profit was trading the GBP/USD pair. I managed to earn $150k on one trade.
What advice would you give to new traders?
The first and main thing is to learn how to trade Forex. Do not try to start earning big from the beginning. My recommendation is to take it step by step.
Considering the current state of the market, what do you think are the news/events traders should keep an eye on?
News, because news “always” create volatility.
What are the most important things you look for in a Forex broker?
Fast and clear money in, fast withdrawals, speed of order execution, as well as website and Client Area functionality.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf tom_2017_06_statement.pdf   247 KB | 317 downloads
Study and risk taking are the engine & fuel that will propel you to success
If someone came to you and made an offer as follows I wonder what you would say?


Play this Game with me.


I will set-up some prices for you to buy and sell at.
I will set those prices to loosely reflect something else but benefit my order-book.
You will be forced to buy at the higher price and sell at the lower price.
I will buy from you at the lower price and sell to you at the higher price.
I will set the distance of those prices and so set my Fee (which may vary at my discretion).
By doing that you will pay my fee.
I will also charge you a commission which may be charged separately or included in my above fee.
I will borrow large sums very cheaply and lend them to you more expensively. (another fee for me).

Assuming you make a decision to buy,

If the price moves up 10 points you will win 10 points (minus fees of approx 3 points = 7 points)

If the Price moves down 10 points you lose 10 points (plus fees of approx 3 points = 13 points)

In this example you need to be right more than 65% of the time to make profit.

AND just to make sure, I reserve the right to cancel any or all or your trades at any time. (particularly the winning ones)

If this was the proposition put to you - would you play this game? It is clearly rigged to benefit me and not you. I rather suspect that there wouldn't be any takers at all. And yet - that is precisely the proposition put forward by retail brokers to their customers. And we are debating WHY retail traders lose in droves? The answer lies above.
Q: Want to Succeed at Forex Trading?
A: Learn
In the court of lord, only love and devotion is counted...
Quoting jecklom
Read Vladimir’s interview and see his account statement to make your own success story: How long have you been trading? I started trading in August 2015. How did you get involved in Forex trading? One of my friends once told me that it is impossible to earn money on trading the Forex market. After that I realised that I had to learn it. What is your trading style? My strategy is mainly based on technical analysis. Generally, I use my own EAs. Do you...
Complete and utter tosh
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Risk MANAGEMENT should ALWAYS be part of any forex traders toolbox. Large accounts can be blown just as fast as small accounts without disciplined risk management. Case in point, my trade risk amount is no more than 2% of my funds available on every trade I get into. And remember, NEVER TRADE WITHOUT A STOP LOSS, if you do then forex is not for you.
Last point, I learnt that without knowledge you fail. I spent over 3 years studying the forex market before making my first trade. I am now moderately successful. It's true what some of the previous guys posted, forex is not a get-rich-quick scheme, if you think it is again, forex is not for you.
Quoting tomase
"Learn to avoid it first" - quite right. But learn to avoid it altogether and trade the indexes instead.
What?????
Who are you lying to??? Indexes are rigged as a cork-screw....mostly.

The forex trade - best advice - trade what you know, avoid before news, avoid fake currencies!!!
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
Quoting Not-KPMG
{quote} What????? Who are you lying to??? Indexes are rigged as a cork-screw....mostly. The forex trade - best advice - trade what you know, avoid before news, avoid fake currencies!!!
Yes everything is rigged blah, blah blah.....Well learn how to de-rig it, follow the money and make it work for you. It takes years of practice, many blown accounts (small, practice ones if you've got any sense - but real money, not demo) and if you maintain a real passion for trading, work out your own strategy (not someone elses "system"), stick at it and learn slowly from the repeated mistakes everybody makes when they learn to trade, then all you have to do is make more money from your winning trades than you lose from your losing trades. That's all that counts.
I just prefer indexes - generally smaller spreads, I can mostly ignore all the daily currency "news" apart from interest rates, NFP and central bankers blathering inanely but bumping the market and the indexes suit my style of trading.
"Who are you lying to???" - what an utterly hysterical comment...calm down dear.
Quoting tomase
{quote} Yes everything is rigged blah, blah blah.....Well learn how to de-rig it, follow the money and make it work for you. It takes years of practice, many blown accounts (small, practice ones if you've got any sense - but real money, not demo) and if you maintain a real passion for trading, work out your own strategy (not someone elses "system"), stick at it and learn slowly from the repeated mistakes everybody makes when they learn to trade, then all you have to do is make more money from your winning trades than you lose from your...
I think few retail traders have any experience of trading in the real world, i.e. proper markets on proper exchanges where you buy a contract and someone else (not your broker) is on the other side of that contract. Once you properly get and understand the idea of how Order Flow works You start to understand the mechanics of How and Why very quickly.

When all you get is a crappy graph with lots of squiggles and wiggles, and your broker is always on the other side of your trade, you lose sight of the mechanics of how a market actually operates. Who is Buying, Who is selling, in what volume, where, Is someone absorbing quantities, is someone iceberging, Or maybe they've switched to lifting the bid, or the offer aggressively because they've got most of their order away. How many are trapped on the wrong side (short for example) needing to buy to cover their shorts providing more buying power into the market to keep it flowing up, or getting their profits squeezed, needing to cover to retain some sort of profit from their trade, and then of course who is simply reversing, scaling into it adding volume and pressure. Are the offers firm or are they being pulled and replaced at a higher level or what about spoofing? (same for bids). where are they firming up. Where is the volume running out and who is taking the other side and why? What footprint are the Algo's leaving atm. etc. etc. etc.

Retail traders, in the main, have no knowledge or understanding of such concepts. No-one teaches it outside professional institutions. Retail traders get fed things like - when this crosses that while uranus is in the fourth quadrant then you must buy but if it is the third you must sell. It's all crap designed to keep you coming back and parting with money to feed the machine. Most training that is sold to retailers is snakeoil provided by the unscrupulous. Combine that with a heavily stacked deck and no wonder they fail in droves...
Quoting nbfx
{quote} I think few retail traders have any experience of trading in the real world, i.e. proper markets on proper exchanges where you buy a contract and someone else (not your broker) is on the other side of that contract. Once you properly get and understand the idea of how Order Flow works You start to understand the mechanics of How and Why very quickly. When all you get is a crappy graph with lots of squiggles and wiggles, and your broker is always on the other side of your trade, you lose sight of the mechanics of how a market actually operates....
100% .
Really dont want to take at all from your points.. You nailed lot of stuff above IMHO.
But couple of thoughts...
In particular IMHO, one big cavat.. Fx doesnt quite work like that.
(Its NOT a "proper" Market..on "proper" Exchanges"
Its a highly decentralised market and so orderflow is effectively impossible..
Yep I know some people have tried to synthesize it even at at institutional level (EBS/REUTERs feeds).
but if only because Spot is only one element in the market.. ie swaps/options etc, its hit and miss.
The problem about Fx is that its impossibly too big and liquid to conspiratorially effectively manipulate..
Sure off-market theres lost of maniplation.. broker TC ..spreads etc.. But actual underlying IB price.? difficult.
Ironically Fx some say is not a market to "Trade" in the same sense as bonds or equities.. since its real value is when matched with yielding secuity investment strategies..?? so its purely speculative and facilatory.?

This a interesting/useful conversation.. Let me know what you think..
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} 100% . Really dont want to take at all from your points.. You nailed lot of stuff above IMHO. But couple of thoughts... In particular IMHO, one big cavat.. Fx doesnt quite work like that. (Its NOT a "proper" Market..on "proper" Exchanges" Its a highly decentralised market and so orderflow is effectively impossible.. Yep I know some people have tried to synthesize it even at at institutional level (EBS/REUTERs feeds)....
You're quite correct in everything you have said about specifically the FX market and there-in lies one of the conundrums we face trading it.

While we may not be able to actually See the order flow lot by lot being pushed through and matched because of the lack of centralised exchange, it is nevertheless happening on an OTC basis. All of the aspects I listed above are happening but not necessarily in plain sight.

My contention is that retail traders, due to their lack of exposure to e.g. a futures market and level 2 information (and the requisite training) do not bring with them the kind of depth of understanding of the mechanisms of how markets actually work, be they Exchange driven or OTC.
Quoting nbfx
{quote} You're quite correct in everything you have said about specifically the FX market and there-in lies one of the conundrums we face trading it. While we may not be able to actually See the order flow lot by lot being pushed through and matched because of the lack of centralised exchange, it is nevertheless happening on an OTC basis. All of the aspects I listed above are happening but not necessarily in plain sight. My contention is that retail traders, due to their lack of exposure to e.g. a futures market and level 2 information (and the...
"While we may not be able to actually See the order flow lot by lot being pushed through and matched because of the lack of centralised exchange, it is nevertheless happening on an OTC basis. All of the aspects I listed above are happening but not necessarily in plain sight."

Yes indeed.
Quoting nbfx
{quote} I think few retail traders have any experience of trading in the real world, i.e. proper markets on proper exchanges where you buy a contract and someone else (not your broker) is on the other side of that contract. Once you properly get and understand the idea of how Order Flow works You start to understand the mechanics of How and Why very quickly. When all you get is a crappy graph with lots of squiggles and wiggles, and your broker is always on the other side of your trade, you lose sight of the mechanics of how a market actually operates....
As you say, all we have as retail traders in some crappy graph and not the first idea of real order flow. But we have what we have and I would argue that it's still possible to make money consistently after a good many years of practice. Elliot waves and Fibonacci still appear on the crappy charts and personally I've found these are the only reliable "routemap".
Quoting nbfx
{quote} You're quite correct in everything you have said about specifically the FX market and there-in lies one of the conundrums we face trading it. While we may not be able to actually See the order flow lot by lot being pushed through and matched because of the lack of centralised exchange, it is nevertheless happening on an OTC basis. All of the aspects I listed above are happening but not necessarily in plain sight. My contention is that retail traders, due to their lack of exposure to e.g. a futures market and level 2 information (and the...
Your point absolutely taken..
But (perhaps Ive misunderstood your post) I dont recognise the underlying currency spot market.. ie EBS/Reuters IB as an OTC market ..at least in the normal sense of industry terminology. And as you clarified, there is no way to establish orderflow in that underlying IB Spot market. If orderflow does exists as a tradable indicator, its only at very marginal levels in off-market " manipulation of the Retail OTC space and with ENC and DMA that is reducing daily.
The more interesting issues for me is whether Fx is a actually a suitable standalone vehicle for investment at all? And how we evaluate TC across retail brokers...
Any ideas?
Quoting tomase
{quote} As you say, all we have as retail traders in some crappy graph and not the first idea of real order flow. But we have what we have and I would argue that it's still possible to make money consistently after a good many years of practice. Elliot waves and Fibonacci still appear on the crappy charts and personally I've found these are the only reliable "routemap".
Firstly. It was not my intention to offend anyone by referring the charts provided as being crappy.

There are indeed a number of mathematical tools and subjective tools that can help people provide themselves with a "routemap". And indeed they all work some of the time. Some of them work more of the time than others. Some are more crude than others. Some are indeed really rather sophisticated. Some are more subjective than others. (I've yet to meet two people who consistently agree on a wave count.)

But they all have something in common. They are all attempts to try to explain what is actually happening in the market to which they are applied. i.e. Trying to explain Order Flow. The Buying The Selling. The different groups with different motives and the consequent order flow.

Maybe I'm just a dinosaur to break things down to such basics.


Rule number 1 in my "Trading Bible"

"The market will always move in such a manner as to inflict the greatest loss on the largest number of people."
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} Your point absolutely taken.. But (perhaps Ive misunderstood your post) I dont recognise the underlying currency spot market.. ie EBS/Reuters IB as an OTC market ..at least in the normal sense of industry terminology. And as you clarified, there is no way to establish orderflow in that underlying IB Spot market. If orderflow does exists as a tradable indicator, its only at very marginal levels in off-market " manipulation of the Retail OTC space and with ENC and DMA that is reducing daily. The more interesting issues for me is whether...
"The more interesting issues for me is whether Fx is a actually a suitable standalone vehicle for investment at all? And how we evaluate TC across retail brokers...
Any ideas?"

Agreed with whole post.

As to the question you posed.

I'm not sure I use FX as an investment vehicle anyway.

Either - I do 'trade' specific situations where I can identify specific imbalances likely to lead to an unwinding of positions and traders being forced and squeezed over time into buying or selling. (order flow)

Or - I hedge currency exposure from trading other markets.

Or - Use One to enhance profitability of the other...

Your thoughts?
Quoting nbfx
{quote} Firstly. It was not my intention to offend anyone by referring the charts provided as being crappy. There are indeed a number of mathematical tools and subjective tools that can help people provide themselves with a "routemap". And indeed they all work some of the time. Some of them work more of the time than others. Some are more crude than others. Some are indeed really rather sophisticated. Some are more subjective than others. (I've yet to meet two people who consistently agree on a wave count.) But they all have something...

"The market will always move in such a manner as to inflict the greatest loss on the largest number of people."

Good line. I wonder where it's from ? (;
Quoting Mingary
{quote} "The market will always move in such a manner as to inflict the greatest loss on the largest number of people." Good line. I wonder where it's from ? (;
This is far from being a line I lifted from somewhere.

This is Rule One of my own personal rule set and the foundation of the entire strategy I have used for many many years....
Quoting nbfx
{quote} Firstly. It was not my intention to offend anyone by referring the charts provided as being crappy. There are indeed a number of mathematical tools and subjective tools that can help people provide themselves with a "routemap". And indeed they all work some of the time. Some of them work more of the time than others. Some are more crude than others. Some are indeed really rather sophisticated. Some are more subjective than others. (I've yet to meet two people who consistently agree on a wave count.) But they all have something...
I assure you I wasn't offended - some charts (the ones that include Sunday) really are crappy. And yes Elliot waves are a way to explain order flow and in that sense they're useful for retail traders. Getting the count right is the hard part and takes a lot of observation and practice, but on the plus side, impulse waves and corrective waves are fairly easily recognised and if you start with a weekly or daily timeframe and work downwards, you stand a chance of trading in the right direction. And you'll know pretty quickly when you've got it wrong.
Also, as a side note, it's just satisfying to see the same 5 wave pattern on a weekly or daily as well as on a 1hr or 15m.
Quoting nbfx
{quote} This is far from being a line I lifted from somewhere. This is Rule One of my own personal rule set and the foundation of the entire strategy I have used for many many years....
I see .. great minds think alike then (;
For example:
https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=9795622#post9795622
Quoting nbfx
{quote} This is far from being a line I lifted from somewhere. This is Rule One of my own personal rule set and the foundation of the entire strategy I have used for many many years....
The Great God Google would appear to agree with you...
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} The Great God Google would appear to agree with you...
I need to start copyrighting stuff .. (;

Anyhow " price will simply always move in the direction that causes the greatest financial damage to the largest number of accounts."

is fundamental ..
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I see .. great minds think alike then (; For example: https://www.forexfactory.com/showthr...22#post9795622
Hmm. Seems so indeed. Except I've been using these rules since well into the previous century (I guess that dates me... Oh dear - I must be a dinosaur then)


Added , and I'm sure I wasn't the first either...
Quoting nbfx
{quote} Hmm. Seems so indeed. Except I've been using these rules since well into the previous century (I guess that dates me... Oh dear - I must be a dinosaur then)
I don't doubt that other people may have arrived at the same conclusion about the true nature of the price move in an open auction type of market.
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I don't doubt that other people may have arrived at the same conclusion about the true nature of the price move in an open auction type of market.
I would go a stage further in that those that have arrived at that or similar conclusions are the ones making money...
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  • Posted: Aug 23, 2017 11:58pm
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    Category: Educational News
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