Menu
Sister Sites

  • Angela Merkel rejects one of Theresa May's key Brexit demands

    From theguardian.com

    Angela Merkel has rejected one of Theresa May’s key Brexit demands, insisting negotiations on Britain’s exit from the European Union cannot run in parallel with talks on the future UK-EU relationship. “The negotiations must first clarify how we will disentangle our interlinked relationship,” the German chancellor said in Berlin. “Only when this question is dealt with can we – hopefully soon after – begin talking about our future relationship.” In her six-page letter triggering article 50 and formally launching the process of leaving the EU, the prime minister said she believed it was “necessary to ... (full story)

Merkel may be in serious need of depends diapers! By way of trash or by way of fish she is yesterdays sentiment!
Theresa May will eventually come to the conclusion that hard Brexit is the sensible option. Trying to wade through EU bureaucratic treacle will only satisfy those in the EU who want revenge against the UK, who had the audacity to pee on their cosy little self serving parade
Excellent piece of the Joris. Make it hard make it an earth shattering hard divorce !

"A divorce is between two equal partners. But the UK is to the EU what Belgium, Austria or Portugal are to Germany: an entity eight times as small... The implication was that Britain had a choice in truth the EU has made it clear from the outset that there are two options only: hard Brexit or no Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...riage#comments
Quoting barkie
Excellent piece of the Joris. Make it hard make it an earth shattering hard divorce ! "A divorce is between two equal partners. But the UK is to the EU what Belgium, Austria or Portugal are to Germany: an entity eight times as small... The implication was that Britain had a choice in truth the EU has made it clear from the outset that there are two options only: hard Brexit or no Brexit. https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...riage#comments
I agree, a very accurate representation of the self righteous, bullying attitude of the EU, (which on quite a number of occasions you have promoted like it's a good thing). You must truly be a political thug at heart.

Clearly the UK thinks otherwise about the EUs' attitude, hence their insightful decision to leave.
Quoting Ill-b-back
{quote} I agree, a very accurate representation of the self righteous, bullying attitude of the EU, (which on quite a number of occasions you have promoted like it's a good thing). You must truly be a political thug at heart. Clearly the UK thinks otherwise about the EUs' attitude, hence their insightful decision to leave.
Good news for New Zealand though?
Full disclosure? LoL
silly Merkel..... May is trying to present an amicable ending.... only when discussion runs in parallel then there is room for negotiation...

The best way to deal with egoistic EU thugs is to just walk away... Nothing is stopping May from trade deals with the rest of the world...
Since when is it normal for a smaller entity (SCO/NIR not withstanding) to dictate the tune of divorce from a larger entity (EU)? Ms. May should keep dreaming ...... We mainland Europeans shall not let you eat your cake and have it!!

Angie is right! First we separate then "maybe" after deep consideration we "may" start trade negotiations ..... NOT Sooner!!
Yes, it is a divorce. One party files wanting it, both negotiate, and the separation includes payments, visitation rights, and asset distribution. In other words a parallel path for past and future relationships. Merkel is simply making a ridiculous statement either as a negotiating ploy or because she is not dealing with reality.

ahyau is right. May is the adult in this.

And size does not matter. This is not a boxing match.
I think it may have been helpful for the negotiations had Theresa May been a little less blunt with the Exit notification
Attached Image
Germany seeks the break up of the British Empire. It's the old "you're either with us or you're against us". British pseudo colonies will have to decide if they want to be British or European. Tough choice.

Let me give an example of what that means to an American. The Bahamas had a very large development taking place ... canals ... streets etcetera ... then came the 10% boat tax. Clearly the British didn't want American expansion. Now the Bahamas look like a ghost town. Even a short visit to the Bahamas costs American boaters $300. Ask any American yachtsman if he gives a damn about the British Empire.
May like fundamental seeing half century before UK have name power not in goods (now a days) world going to change as china changing the world and they changed from 2 decades combine Europe have more power . Un Elected PM not hearing Scottish voice results can be different.
I just wonder if anyone actually seriously believes this will all be accomplished in 2 years? The way I see it, EU and the 27 Nations will drag their feet as a ploy to apply pressure, and time will run out and then the real conversations will begin as pressure is then applied to the EU and their member states by all their companies that have increased difficulties, reduced sales and lower profitability to overcome. Eventually a new accord will emerge.

And (as an aside) Nicola Sturgeon is totally barking mad if she even begins to think we will know the final outcome in just 18 months - it's going to take years, but she has a totally blinkered view on everything with only one aim in life - sooooo sad for her.......
Quoting kenleander
Germany seeks the break up of the British Empire. It's the old "you're either with us or you're against us". British pseudo colonies will have to decide if they want to be British or European. Tough choice. Let me give an example of what that means to an American. The Bahamas had a very large development taking place ... canals ... streets etcetera ... then came the 10% boat tax. Clearly the British didn't want American expansion. Now the Bahamas look like a ghost town. Even a short visit to the Bahamas costs American boaters $300. Ask...
British Empire hasn't existed since the 1930's?
Quoting nbfx
{quote} British Empire hasn't existed since the 1930's?
At any rate, it probably won't exist beyond 2020.
Quoting kenleander
{quote} At any rate, it probably won't exist beyond 2020.
Given that it doesn't exist now I'd say that is a certainty?
Quoting nbfx
{quote} Given that it doesn't exist now I'd say that is a certainty?
Yeah, explain that obfuscation to the Falkland Islanders.
Quoting kenleander
Germany seeks the break up of the British Empire. It's the old "you're either with us or you're against us". British pseudo colonies will have to decide if they want to be British or European. Tough choice. Let me give an example of what that means to an American. The Bahamas had a very large development taking place ... canals ... streets etcetera ... then came the 10% boat tax. Clearly the British didn't want American expansion. Now the Bahamas look like a ghost town. Even a short visit to the Bahamas costs American boaters $300. Ask...

Ken..
The Bahamas is an independent sovereign country and has been since 1973.
It is a member of the Commonwealth of Nations and shares the same person, currently Elizabeth II, as its head of state and reigning constitutional monarch, but retains a crown legally distinct from the other realms. As of 2017, there are 16 Commonwealth realms: Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Barbados, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands, The Bahamas, Tuvalu and the United Kingdom.

The Falkland Islands are a British Overseas Territory. Totally different status. (BOT) are territories under the jurisdiction and sovereignty of the United Kingdom. They are one of 17 tiny and far flung outposts of the former British Empire that have have voted to remain British territories. These territories do not form part of the United Kingdom and, with the exception of Gibraltar, are not part of the European Union.
I think there are 9 or 10 nations with Overseas Territories... including USA.
Hope of help.
Sources: wikipedia
Merkel is supposed to be focusing on her election campaign. You'll soon be nobody to give an opinion about Brexit. Same for the clowns from France after Le Pen win and the clock starts ticking for Frexit
UK should just walk away. Not paying divorce $$$. What UK need is another Ironlady.
Quoting kenleander
{quote} At any rate, it probably won't exist beyond 2020.
Funny hearing an American talk about empires etc. Ours was over years ago, but I would look closer to home if you want to talk about empires! Nobody has invaded more countries than you lot, for your own imperialist aims. But unlike us, you have never had the guts to occupy and run a country - you just bomb and then suck out what you want, then leave.

So please dont lecture us about imperialism!
  • Post #21
  • Quote
  • Edited at 4:07pm Mar 30, 2017 3:48pm | Edited at 4:07pm
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} Good news for New Zealand though? Full disclosure? LoL
Why should I be interested in NZ?
Try to get it right...
  • Post #22
  • Quote
  • Edited at 9:34pm Mar 30, 2017 4:37pm | Edited at 9:34pm
Bitch against bitch with bunch of pussy male cheerleaders egging them on! LOL

"The negotiations must first clarify how we will disentangle our interlinked relationship, the German chancellor said in Berlin. Only when this question is dealt with can we hopefully soon after begin talking about our future relationship"

Well May can totally come back with the same argument "if we are going to be disentangled forever, then there is no point for me to guarantee 'rights of EU citizens in the UK' and also the interests of all the EU businesses in UK."

EU and UK are still on the same continent and still have mutual interest in each other. There is NO "disentangling". Everything is in one package. Even in a divorce, you don't just talk about how you are going to be separated, no, you talk about what do you get what you are not going to get, what you are entitled to, what you are not entitled to AFTER the divorce; that's the whole divorce negotiation; everything is talked about in ONE package.

Angela is just trying to make everything difficult for UK on purpose kinda like a public flogging to show to all the other countries that are potentially thinking of exiting from the EU what the consequences are if they ever exit from EU. Not surprised Angela would act this way. After all EU is Angela's baby, a project that she single-handedly put together. The last thing she wants to see is Germany becoming the only rich country left in EU holding the bag, feeding to all the beggar countries that are taking in more from EU than giving.
Quoting Ill-b-back
{quote} Why should I be interested in NZ? Try to get it right...
Forget about him , he is trying to be a detective or show himself smart but failing badly saying worthless quotes.
and about your first comment , i agree with what you said about the cheap manners from the EU trying to bully the UK about there freedom of choice with the divorce bla bla bla bla , it's really disgusting.
Britain should go for hard BREXIT. EU needs UK lot more than the other way around.
  •  Guest
  • | IP XX.XXX.87.168
C'mon guys. Use common sense! Facts: Europe is UK's biggest market. May is shitting her pants because of course trading restrictions will apply after Brexit. UK's economy will go downhill because services and products will simply be cheaper in member states of EU-Union. May is trying to uphold trade agreement pre-Brexit. And EU-members won't allow that. Uk wanted Brexit, now you have to deal with consequences.
Quoting Abhimanyu
Britain should go for hard BREXIT. EU needs UK lot more than the other way around.
Oh? Why is that?
Quoting zerotmoal
{quote} Forget about him , he is trying to be a detective or show himself smart but failing badly saying worthless quotes. and about your first comment , i agree with what you said about the cheap manners from the EU trying to bully the UK about there freedom of choice with the divorce bla bla bla bla , it's really disgusting.
That is to be expected. It is the usual double standards at play here. EU can make endless threats, but when UK engages oo la la!

Quoting g_f136da97
C'mon guys. Use common sense! Facts: Europe is UK's biggest market. May is shitting her pants because of course trading restrictions will apply after Brexit. UK's economy will go downhill because services and products will simply be cheaper in member states of EU-Union. May is trying to uphold trade agreement pre-Brexit. And EU-members won't allow that. Uk wanted Brexit, now you have to deal with consequences.
Never forget what we Brits brought to the EU table. Losing one of the largest economies in the world from the union WILL make it a lesser global force. Losing the strongest military and attendant security/intelligence services WILL dilute EU capabilities. Losing a net financial contributor WILL put burden on other wealthier EU nations. Losing automatic entry and working rights to the 'Land of Milk and Honey' (as UK has so often been dubbed) WILL lessen the prospects for particularly those poor accession EU nations whose peoples seek to migrate to 'better' lives. Diminishing trade ties with one of your best customers WILL adversely effect countless EU businesses large and small alike. The list goes on.

IT is a mistake to think that UK can so easily be 'dismissed'. There are indeed consequences for BOTH sides and the EU and its utter intransigence must carry a significant blame for Cameron losing the referendum, and deal with those into the future.
  • Post #28
  • Quote
  • Edited at 8:56am Mar 31, 2017 8:40am | Edited at 8:56am
Look... enough with the pissing contest..
The reality is that the UK and EU have a highly dependent relationship.
It absolutely NOT in UK interest that EU break up.. Nor in EU member states interest that UK great global trading dream fails. Except perhaps in the minds of anarchists fascists and Bolsheviks in what ever guise the hide their shape-changing angst.. or online image in the standard disguises of patriotism, nationalism tribalism or racism..

The populist decision of UK to leave the EU (which I democratically respect) is a function of a great despair particularly among a historically, and relatively spoiled post war generation. Faith in the political system is shot for many. Society itself particularly among the older less educated and less successful, is beginning to suffer from a desperate lack of hope. and a desire to harm the system that brought that about. Academic studies of conspiracy theories in Britain show that a majority of people dont believe that democracy has any influence on who holds power, and that the E.U. is trying to take over all British law-making powers. They share a belief in harsh and even humiliating punishment for criminals, including support for the death penalty, and an authoritarian society.
Under these circumstances, individuals display what sociologists call negative solidarity, a feeling that if theyre to suffer, then everyone should, too. Psychologically, it is perhaps because easier to experience feelings of despair and powerlessness if they are collective conditions, rather than private ones.
In that context we see a phenomenon of "economic self-harm" emerging in democratic"behaviour.
A major reason why "Experts" got it all so wrong..
40 years ago I was very struck by Tofflers predictions that society was heading for collective "nervous breakdown" due to exponential acceleration of technological /societal/economic change.. together with the alienation that that would bring. Today I believe I am seeing just that.

The progress of the discussions now in hand over Brexit, will create very serious threats to EVERYONES prosperity going forward. IMHO.. its NOT a subject for pissing contests... Despite how much its trivialization boosts newpapers and broadcast audiences and profits makes for media moguls... or entertains visitors to FF.

Sources for above include: Davis UoL.
Quoting nbfx
{quote} That is to be expected. It is the usual double standards at play here. EU can make endless threats, but when UK engages oo la la! {quote} Never forget what we Brits brought to the EU table. Losing one of the largest economies in the world from the union WILL make it a lesser global force. Losing the strongest military and attendant security/intelligence services WILL dilute EU capabilities. Losing a net financial contributor WILL put burden on other wealthier EU nations. Losing automatic entry and working rights to the 'Land of Milk and...
Absolutely. The people who think the 5th largest economy in the world is not going to be missed by the EU are obviously missing some brain cells. The rhetoric coming out of the EU politicians mouths are not the words of friends. They are quickly reverting to type. They need a good deal. They sell far more to us than they buy from us, so to make it a bad deal on purpose just reinforces to me how right we were to vote for Brexit. Hard Brexit, soft Brexit either way Britain will be far, far better off without the millstone that is the EU.
Quoting cliffedwards
Look... enough with the pissing contest...
I wondered when you'd show up.
Quoting cat
I think it may have been helpful for the negotiations had Theresa May been a little less blunt with the Exit notification {image}
Naahhh, I think she got it just about right...
Quoting Ill-b-back
{quote} Naahhh, I think she got it just about right...
I'm right with you on that. The opening moves from EU were always going to deliberately difficult and contrary and designed to waste time arguing about how we're going to ague about it. Nothing like a timely reminder at the outset...........
Quoting g_f136da97
C'mon guys. Use common sense! Facts: Europe is UK's biggest market. May is shitting her pants because of course trading restrictions will apply after Brexit. UK's economy will go downhill because services and products will simply be cheaper in member states of EU-Union. May is trying to uphold trade agreement pre-Brexit. And EU-members won't allow that. Uk wanted Brexit, now you have to deal with consequences.
Based on the antagonistic and aggressive reactions from Hollande, Verhofstadt and Juncker, I would suggest that it is the EU who are having the "brown trouser moment". The EU is a poorly constructed ponzi scheme and with the UK's departure has less life left in it, than before Brexit. The truth is about to come out about the EU and the Euro. The great unaccountable and unelected of Brussels are going to be without their pensions as well as their €120,000 per year (no receipts required) expense accounts.

Prof. Mark Blyth, Eastman Professor of Political Economy, Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs, Brown University. He can offer you a more honest and realistic analysis of the EU and the Euro zone than most. This guy is broadly pro EU not anti EU like me

Mark Blyth Explains The European Economic Disaster In Simple Words https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8n-78RUsCg

Economist Mark Blyth and the future of the Eurozone (with slides) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S31VLG8Qi78
Quoting nbfx
{quote} I'm right with you on that. The opening moves from EU were always going to deliberately difficult and contrary and designed to waste time arguing about how we're going to ague about it. Nothing like a timely reminder at the outset...........
Exactly. Regardless of Theresas' approach, eu were always going to play hard ball. I will be interested to see if she and the electorate will want to stomach such complex negotiation outcomes that need the consent of the member nations.
A waste of time arguing about arguing sounds about right....
"A year ago, three quarters of economists surveyed in the annual FT poll thought Brexit would harm Britains medium term economic prospects, nine times more than those who thought it would improve the outlook.
Almost half of the 120 economists who answered the Brexit question at the end of 2016 had not changed their opinion, 40 per cent had become more pessimistic, while only 13 per cent were now more optimistic"
Source FT.
  • Post #36
  • Quote
  • Edited at 11:14am Mar 31, 2017 10:38am | Edited at 11:14am
@Cliff
And I remember an article published not too long ago here in FF clearly outlining with historical data how we had been so badly let down by economists with regards to their ability to predict the future.

You yourself, rather than dispute the findings, highlighted that with the unpredictable nature of forces that influence businesses and governments and their decision making, that it was wrong to blame economists for their inability to predict the future.

Hence perhaps why "Britain has had enough of "experts" "
Quoting Ill-b-back
@Cliff And I remember an article published not too long ago here in FF clearly outlining with historical data how we had been so badly let down by economists with regards to their ability to predict the future. You yourself, rather than dispute the findings, highlighted that with the unpredictable nature of forces that influence businesses and governments and their decision making, that it was wrong to blame economists for their inability to predict the future. Hence perhaps why "Britain has had enough of "experts" "
Yes Economists can be wrong.
Nuclear Physicists can be wrong
Doctors can be wrong.

But when you are brought to A&E I doubt youll want to listen to the opinion of a plumber about your treatment?
Get a grip.
Another good video from Devauxt by Mark Blyth though long.

And I agree with Cliff in that "The reality is that the UK and EU have a highly dependent relationship.".

But not in that " It absolutely NOT in UK interest that EU break up.."

But with "Nor in EU member states interest that UK great global trading dream fails.".

And with "The populist decision of UK to leave the EU (which I democratically respect) is a function of a great despair particularly among a historically, and relatively spoiled post war generation."

Being emotional drained they needed a parent. Should have stuck with Churchill. A few Brit friends on social media have impressed me as whiney more than a few times. Brexit is Brits actually saying they want to do for themselves in some things. OR at least that they have more despair and frustration with Brussels. It IS in their interest to be sovereign. It is in all parties interest to reach a trade agreement, and to do that quickly just continue what now is. Trade and immigration etc. are not inseparable.
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} Yes Economists can be wrong. Nuclear Physicists can be wrong Doctors can be wrong. But when you are brought to A&E I doubt youll want to listen to the opinion of a plumber about your treatment? Get a grip.
Lol, what?

I've got a grip Cliff when I cite historical details.

You're the one who seems to have lost his grip with your metaphors and poor memory....

Just another example of your delusional hypocrisy...
Merkel does not dictate terms to Britain - May should just laugh at her to remind Merkel how irrelevant she really is. Angela, your party lost seats , your message is yesterday's news, and you look like you wear Depends. Please stop embarrassing yourself. Resign.
Quoting Ill-b-back
{quote} Lol, what? I've got a grip Cliff when I cite historical details. You're the one who seems to have lost his grip with your metaphors and poor memory.... Just another example of your delusional hypocrisy...
heck..You got me Kid..
You are just too intellectual for me. LoL
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} You are too intellectual for me. LoL
At least we agree on something
Brexit: idiocracy at work.
  • Post #44
  • Quote
  • Edited at 8:56am Apr 1, 2017 8:40am | Edited at 8:56am
EU will make an example out of UK.
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} Yes Economists can be wrong. Nuclear Physicists can be wrong Doctors can be wrong. But when you are brought to A&E I doubt youll want to listen to the opinion of a plumber about your treatment? Get a grip.
This is a bad analogy.

You go to A and E to see a doctor because you know that he/she is of a system where their performance is under check. - If a doctor was to perform inadequately over a period of time the doctor would lose his/her license and depending on the severity of the case be done for manslaughter. This doctor would be released from the system. These performance requirements do not apply to economists - if they did you would have no economists left.
Quoting Johnramb0
{quote} This is a bad analogy. You go to A and E to see a doctor because you know that he/she is of a system where their performance is under check. - If a doctor was to perform inadequately over a period of time the doctor would lose his/her license and depending on the severity of the case be done for manslaughter. This doctor would be released from the system. These performance requirements do not apply to economists - if they did you would have no economists left.
ain't that the truth...
Quoting Johnramb0
{quote} This is a bad analogy. You go to A and E to see a doctor because you know that he/she is of a system where their performance is under check. - If a doctor was to perform inadequately over a period of time the doctor would lose his/her license and depending on the severity of the case be done for manslaughter. This doctor would be released from the system. These performance requirements do not apply to economists - if they did you would have no economists left.
I eat bananas. Anything wrong with bananas? Who should I call? GHOSTBUSTER. Tret Tret Tret Tretetetettttttttt
Quoting g_f136da97
C'mon guys. Use common sense! Facts: Europe is UK's biggest market. May is shitting her pants because of course trading restrictions will apply after Brexit. UK's economy will go downhill because services and products will simply be cheaper in member states of EU-Union. May is trying to uphold trade agreement pre-Brexit. And EU-members won't allow that. Uk wanted Brexit, now you have to deal with consequences.
Yeah like people have no way around trading restrictions. Well there is also agreements about EU's rights in UK. I guess EU doesn't care anymore? They are going to ditch that just to play hardball? And UK is not a market for EU? LOL UK can survive a LOT better than EU without the baggage of those 15 other beggar nations on their back and EU knows it. No this is just all muscle-flexing. EU is just to make things difficult for UK to be a deterrent for others who are also thinking of leaving. Face it, EU does NOT work; it's a sinking ship. UK just jumped first and in order to stop others from jumping, EU is just making it difficult for UK to swim to safety as a "showing of consequences".
Quoting Forexia
{quote} Yeah like people have no way around trading restrictions. Well there is also agreements about EU's rights in UK. I guess EU doesn't care anymore? They are going to ditch that just to play hardball? And UK is not a market for EU? LOL UK can survive a LOT better than EU without the baggage of those 15 other beggar nations on their back and EU knows it. No this is just all muscle-flexing. EU is just to make things difficult for UK to be a deterrent for others who are also thinking of leaving. Face it, EU does NOT work; it's a sinking ship....
That is a fair and accurate response. When he said " UK's economy will go downhill because services and products will simply be cheaper in member states of EU-Union". Didn't he realise that the EU and Euro has made everything more expensive across Europe with the exception of Germany. Food stuffs from regions outside of the EU can be considerably cheaper, especially when take away the EU protection racket fees, sorry membership fees
  •  Guest
  • | IP XX.XXX.25.51
Join FF
  • Story Stats
  • Posted: Mar 30, 2017 6:29am
  • Submitted by:
     Newsstand
    Category: Fundamental Analysis
    Comments: 49  /  Views: 15,241