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  • Why Europe Needs to Save Greece

    From project-syndicate.org

    The fundamental problem underlying Greece’s economic crisis is a Greek problem: the country’s deep-rooted unwillingness to modernize. Greece was subject to a long period of domination by the Ottoman Empire. Its entrenched political and economic networks are deeply corrupt. A meritocratic bureaucracy has not emerged. Even as trust in government institutions has eroded, a culture of dependency has taken hold. The Greeks, it can be argued, have not earned the right to be saved. And yet a Greek exit from the euro is not the best option for either Greece or for the European Union. Whether or not the Greeks are ... (full story)

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  • Post #1
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  • Edited at 4:53pm Apr 12, 2015 4:30pm | Edited at 4:53pm
  •  traderathome
  • Joined Mar 2008 | Status: PVSRA with Traderathome | 990 Comments
"Its entrenched political and economic networks are deeply corrupt." -
"The Greeks, it can be argued, have not earned the right to be saved." -

Geez! If I had written these lines I'd surely have been suspended again! LOL!

"And yet a Greek exit from the euro is not the best option for either Greece or for the European Union. Whether or not the Greeks are deserving of assistance, it is in Europe’s interest to help them." -

It is clear, and the writer of this article agrees, the Greek government regardless of pure structure, is rooted in corruption. Structure alone (Democracy, Dictatorship, etc.) is not truly defined in absence of how the participants actually play their roles.

The core problem is that there is no abatement of the corruption, and no willingness in their democratic process to change this. Therefore, as the saying goes, we cannot help others that will not help themselves. Period. So, why is it in Europe's interests to continue to try and help them, if they cannot be helped, because they will not help themselves?

The intelligent thing to do is to let them go and fall down and suffer. Perhaps then there will develop a greater willingness to address the core issue of time rooted corruption, and bring about an abatement of it thru law and enforcement. It has always be the way of democratic nations to reach out and help - sometimes covertly - those that exhibit by both word and deed their aspiration for a true democracy. And so it can be done with Greece,........later, when words match deeds.

To do otherwise is to simply throw good money after bad. That is unadulterated stupidity.
  • Post #2
  • Quote
  • Apr 12, 2015 4:47pm Apr 12, 2015 4:47pm
  •  Guest
  • | IP XXX.XXX.166.3
This guys is blaming the Ottoman Turks for Greece being dysfunctional? Seriously?
  • Post #3
  • Quote
  • Apr 12, 2015 4:52pm Apr 12, 2015 4:52pm
  •  mima
  • | Membership Revoked | Joined May 2008 | 966 Comments
Quoting traderathome
Disliked
.....
Ignored
In plain English, what did you really want to say?
  • Post #4
  • Quote
  • Apr 12, 2015 5:08pm Apr 12, 2015 5:08pm
  •  demp
  • | Joined Dec 2014 | Status: Member | 5 Comments
To not exclude Greece because it would be hard for them to recover surely can't be the reason we have to continue working with them and their "culture of dependence"?
  • Post #5
  • Quote
  • Apr 12, 2015 5:12pm Apr 12, 2015 5:12pm
  •  demp
  • | Joined Dec 2014 | Status: Member | 5 Comments
Quoting Guest
Disliked
This guys is blaming the Ottoman Turks for Greece being dysfunctional? Seriously?
Ignored
This guy was the best Swedish finance minister we've ever had and he wasn't blaming any Turks. Just giving you a basic history lesson explaining how they've become what we're seeing today
  • Post #6
  • Quote
  • Apr 12, 2015 5:23pm Apr 12, 2015 5:23pm
  •  mangojango
  • | Joined Jul 2013 | Status: Member | 10 Comments
Anyone read Boomerang, by Michael Lewis? It does a really good job of bringing to light the corruption in Greece in the context of the current financial issues. It's very funny as well. Greece has huge problems with culturally embedded tax evasion. Everyone has been avoiding tax so long no-one wants to be the first to have to pay it. There is a huge sense of entitlement apparently.
  • Post #7
  • Quote
  • Apr 12, 2015 6:12pm Apr 12, 2015 6:12pm
  •  membank
  • | Joined Nov 2013 | Status: Member | 1 Comment
why dont greece sell 1 of its islands off to the EU then it will be able to pay off its debts and then every time it cant pay the EU back just sell another island.........
  • Post #8
  • Quote
  • Apr 13, 2015 12:32am Apr 13, 2015 12:32am
  •  billv
  • Joined Dec 2011 | Status: Member | 1,068 Comments
Quoting demp
Disliked
To not exclude Greece because it would be hard for them to recover surely can't be the reason we have to continue working with them and their "culture of dependence"?
Ignored
Borg talked about the deficit but didn't talk about the terrible reform program which made the deficit bigger and bigger.

Making people unemployed doesn't improve tax revenue.
  • Post #9
  • Quote
  • Apr 13, 2015 2:44am Apr 13, 2015 2:44am
  •  nikitasnax
  • | Membership Revoked | Joined Dec 2014 | 90 Comments
They can't afford to buy even one island but i agree with mima LET GREECE OUT.

Make Greece a favour and dont save any more
  • Post #10
  • Quote
  • Edited at 2:58am Apr 13, 2015 2:47am | Edited at 2:58am
  •  Macdon
  • Joined Jul 2009 | Status: Member | 550 Comments
Quoting mangojango
Disliked
Anyone read Boomerang, by Michael Lewis? It does a really good job of bringing to light the corruption in Greece in the context of the current financial issues. It's very funny as well. Greece has huge problems with culturally embedded tax evasion. Everyone has been avoiding tax so long no-one wants to be the first to have to pay it. There is a huge sense of entitlement apparently.
Ignored
Yeah, Greece has problems with "culturally embedded tax evasion" but in places like Australia it's all fine and dandy, right? If I were Greek, I would absolutely try my damndest not to pay tax to venal and corrupt politicians in order that they may pay off, indeed bail out, venal and corrupt foreign banks. It's this sort of peaceful non-compliance which can change world orders.

Some letters from today's AU newspapers.
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-pol...12-1mje7u.html
The Australian Taxation Office's submission to the inquiry into corporate tax avoidance shows that in 2012-13 $388.4 billion – more than half of Australia's trade – is money sent offshore by companies to their overseas arms.

Then how about getting the corporate sector to actually pay some tax? Glencore, $13 BILLION clear profit, ZERO tax paid.
Quoting billv
Disliked
Borg talked about the deficit but didn't talk about the terrible reform program which made the deficit bigger and bigger.

Making people unemployed doesn't improve tax revenue.
Ignored
Before I listen to what this this Swedish quisling has to say, I'd like to listen to what an Icelander has to say, especially on how they jailed their crooked politicians and banksters.

This bloke won't mention how the troika policies reduced the Greek GDP by over 25% thus increasing its GDP to debt ratio as well as destroying its economy and ability to pay.

May I suggest to Greece to jail the troika once they set foot in Greece if for no other reason than what I mentioned above? I detest incompetence and arrogance and they have it in spades.
  • Post #11
  • Quote
  • Apr 13, 2015 3:14am Apr 13, 2015 3:14am
  •  billv
  • Joined Dec 2011 | Status: Member | 1,068 Comments
Quoting Macdon
Disliked
May I suggest to Greece to jail the troika once they set foot in Greece if for no other reason than what I mentioned above? I detest incompetence and arrogance and they have it in spades.
Ignored
100% agree
  • Post #12
  • Quote
  • Apr 13, 2015 4:38am Apr 13, 2015 4:38am
  •  fxstir
  • | Joined Sep 2011 | Status: Its in the waiting | 53 Comments
"The fundamental problem underlying Greece’s economic crisis is a Greek problem: the country’s deep-rooted unwillingness to modernize."

Remember this quote?
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws.“
— Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Greece's fundamental problem is that it joined the European Union and gave up its sovereignty by adopting the Euro. As I recall, the Euro was proposed to provide stability for Europe. It is evident that it has done just the opposite. What Greece needs are jobs for its citizens. Instead Greece is stuck in a prison of debt controlled by European central bankers.

Happy Trades
  • Post #13
  • Quote
  • Apr 13, 2015 10:01am Apr 13, 2015 10:01am
  •  peacourt
  • | Joined Nov 2012 | Status: Member | 84 Comments
one way or another, greece will be saved
  • Post #14
  • Quote
  • Apr 13, 2015 11:55am Apr 13, 2015 11:55am
  •  JeffZhou
  • | Joined Feb 2015 | Status: Member | 237 Comments
Greek corruption is the root of the problem and we have seen the govt's inability dealing with the "Lagarde List" a coupe of years ago. EU could save Greece economically out of political reason, only for the short term, but it simply cannot the cure the problem. It will repeat again and again.
  •  Guest
  • | IP XX.XXX.27.11
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  • Story Stats
  • Posted: Apr 12, 2015 3:52pm
  • Submitted by:
     Newsstand
    Category: Fundamental Analysis
    Comments: 14  /  Views: 2,664
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