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  • Jesse Livermore: The Greatest Trader Who Ever Lived

    From crossingwallstreet.com

    When Jesse Livermore made his first stock trade at the tender age of 15, he didn’t hedge his bets. He consulted the charts he’d compiled working as a chalkboard runner in a Boston brokerage firm, and when the figures for the company in question, Burlington, checked out, he went all in, investing everything he had—all $5—in the railroad. Two days later, he cashed in his shares, for a profit of $3.12. It was 1892. Exhilarating, that first taste. The pendulum had begun to swing. Livermore began to roam the streets of Beantown, frequenting its bucket shops, gambling counters that took bets on stocks without ... (full story)

best trading book of all time
Christ, if this is what it takes to be the greatest trader that ever lived then give me a crack at the title. I would kick Jesse Livermores arse from here to kingdom come with his rich one day bankrupt the next routine.
That's an excellent article but I question the value
of his wisdom due to the suicidal outcome.

And "deanbo",
I doubt that you would make a pimple
on Livermore's ass. Just sayin'.
Quoting Slim Buffett
That's an excellent article but I question the value
of his wisdom due to the suicidal outcome.

And "deanbo",
I doubt that you would make a pimple
on Livermore's ass. Just sayin'.
"For chaotic his life was, in spades. His broker, reflecting on his penchant for cruising the Manhattan streets at night in his canary-yellow Rolls Royce in search of young girls, quipped, “When Livermore is speculating, he is thinking of screwing, and when he is screwing he is thinking of speculating.” His first wife, Nettie Jordan, separated from him one year after their wedding, following a tearful scene in which he begged her to pawn her jewels to finance one of his bankruptcies."

If this excerpt is true, then Jesse Livermore wasn't a trader. He was a predator.
Quoting Trout
best trading book of all time
I agree.....he was right on line of sanity as most geniuses are, and in the end his depression got him. A lot of what he said still rings true today, even in FX trading.
Quoting deanbo
"For chaotic his life was, in spades. His broker, reflecting on his penchant for cruising the Manhattan streets at night in his canary-yellow Rolls Royce in search of young girls, quipped, “When Livermore is speculating, he is thinking of screwing, and when he is screwing he is thinking of speculating.” His first wife, Nettie Jordan, separated from him one year after their wedding, following a tearful scene in which he begged her to pawn her jewels to finance one of his bankruptcies."

If this excerpt is true, then Jesse Livermore wasn't a trader....

That all might be true. IDK, but something drove him to
suicide. Maybe it was more than money.

Perhaps "discipline" should be practiced not only in
trading but in our personal lives. Seems reasonable.

All the best best
awesome, awesome book!
A Classic story, that we Fx/Future Traders should learned from its lesson, the more our knowledge based experience the stronger we are to continue the walk of the walk of becoming a sustainable traders...
No Money Management
Haven't read the book have you?!
Cant even read it... says webpage not available
Quoting Schweet
No Money Management
No MM, no care
No read the book either huh?!?!
  • Post #14
  • Quote
  • Edited at 11:36am Nov 6, 2013 2:59am | Edited at 11:36am
I don't know if Livermore was the greatest trader of all time. If you believe the greatest trader is someone who became wealthy and stayed wealthy then Livermore is not your greatest. He sure did have huge testicles though, figuratively speaking.
threat detected on webpage be careful My antivirus blocked opening the page
He wrote he was a failure not because of his trading method, but because of his mental capacity, impulsiveness, and psychology. But he left abt untouchable 5 million USD.
Quoting frx_trader
He wrote he was a failure not because of his trading method, but because of his mental capacity, impulsiveness, and psychology. But he left abt untouchable 5 million USD.
That's right. Depression wasn't recognised as an illness in those days, and it can be a killer illness even today. An extremely talented and successful lawyer just took his own life earlier this year in NZ....it's sad because it IS treatable now....but it wasn't in Jesse's day
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  • | IP XX.XXX.218.77
Er, that's just so wrong it's difficult to know where to start, yes you will improve by reading of the thoughts and practices of the 'great' traders.

Quoting Loadedgun
You are not going to be a better trader from reading any book or "respecting" sages and what they think!
^^ The book is a biography of the mans life....not a trading manual.
  •  Guest
  • | IP XX.XXX.218.77
So are the collaborators in a sense your apostles? Were they involved in the hunt for the Holy Grail of trading? Can I ask where you actually discovered it? Through practice, a trading manual? Thanks.

Quoting Loadedgun
It is just me, God and a few collaborators who understand what I have gone through to gain the market visibility that makes me 99% confident that we will see 1.40$ (1.44$) sooner rather than later. what a bird brained mug this chap must be for real
  •  Guest
  • | IP XX.XXX.218.77
You appear to be confusing someone else with me. It's not up to me to prove the worth of trading manuals and biographies, on the contrary it was you who stated they have no worth and that you don't have the intellectual capacity or curiosity to read them, therefore it's up to you, swimming versus the tide of expert opinion, who should prove your statement.

Quoting Loadedgun
Fine so - read the book and by next Monday start calling trades still as "guest" though we know who you are and sign them off "it is I" or "spread" or somthing or rather - lets see where you are and how the book has changed you. And please every week read a new book and let us match up your progress a real mutt I tell you
  • Post #22
  • Quote
  • Edited at 10:03am Nov 6, 2013 9:52am | Edited at 10:03am
Jesse Livermore: The Greatest Trader Who Ever Lived

Poppycock !

Any one reading about the life of Jesse Livermore will quickly understand that he had some serious gambling problems coupled with some even more serious depression problems.
It's clear that he first tried - several times - to commit financial suicide by plunging ("the boy plunger" as he was called) in the market with huge positions; but it did not work! and he made a fortune and became a hero (not what he wanted - so he tried again to fail but made more money! - albeit did manage to "win" once in a while). Until finally, he moved from attempting financial suicide to actual suicide...

If anything he was the luckiest unluckiest trader who ever lived!
wow, what a great comeback.. dying for many times then come to life with even greater power..
but even a superhuman has limit.
Did Livermore have trading insight? Yes, he is given credit for saying "the trend is your friend". Did he make some marvelous moves? Absolutely. Was he the greatest? Hardly. Even in his own time he could never best Arthur Cutten. Cutten was far superior to Livemore, though know much about the wheat king from Canada
Yep Puritan, Cutten was far more successful than Livermore.
His was a fantastic book (a must read for all traders), but Livermore is certainly not "the greatest trader who ever lived". To be the best trader he'd have needed to be permanently successful with a strong (generally) rising trading balance, and have used a repeating methodology. Instead, he continually did the opposite.

What helped him was he was a market maker. Soon after starting his trading life he grew big enough to move the market simply by people knowing he'd entered it, and by opening huge positions, thus others followed him. Much like the market makers today.
the cast of characters was great from the other traders and the brokers and salesmen -- all manner of incompetents, cowards, false egos, and thieves. I started as a runner in the old grain room of the Chicago Board of Trade over 30 years ago and saw the same cast exhibiting the same behavior. I've read "Reminiscence of a Stock Operator" at least four times and I always pick up something new each time.

I think a lot of people don't really know how to listen to start but definitely not how to listen to lessons about trading. The very subject gets most participants so tensed up they can't absorb a thing, let alone learn something well worth learning. There is definitely nothing new under the sun...just a slightly better way of organizing things.
If you want to have sound knowledge in investing, including FX, read Benjamin Graham's "The Intelligent Investor"
Quoting realjumper
That's right. Depression wasn't recognised as an illness in those days, and it can be a killer illness even today. An extremely talented and successful lawyer just took his own life earlier this year in NZ....it's sad because it IS treatable now....but it wasn't in Jesse's day
don't agree. what you call 'cure' is actually transforming yourself using medication into something else, probably vegetable. not necessary better than dieing.
His method was proven to be effective at that time. But his trading behavior was not of good trader quality.

I wonder if you have to choose one of these two, which one will you choose? Good Trading Method or Good trading Behavior?

I wd choose the later. Method can belearned but behavior is hard to change.
Quoting seaman2
don't agree. what you call 'cure' is actually transforming yourself using medication into something else, probably vegetable. not necessary better than dieing.
I didn't mention "cure"...anywhere....ever. Don't try and put words in my mouth
RJ stated that depression is "treatable". As for reminiscences it's a novel of fiction first and biography second. The latest version, with the addendum notes adds more fact and depth. It's an enjoyable read and IMO a myth has been built up surrounding the book and Livermore and there's precious little his life can teach 'us' about trading. But that doesn't alter the fact that its a great read and he was a fascinating character.

Quoting seaman2
don't agree. what you call 'cure' is actually transforming yourself using medication into something else, probably vegetable. not necessary better than dieing.
My take away from Jesse Livermore's style:

"Being right" is not a strategy. If you stubbornly adhere to it and bet big on it, no matter how talented, insightful, or connected to the market you are, sooner or later you will lose everything.

It didn't help that he was bipolar. You think your invincible during the manic phase and can't function during the depression phase. A perfect recipe for win big, lose big, end it all. ;^)
Quoting Ever E. Man
My take away from Jesse Livermore's style:

"Being right" is not a strategy. If you stubbornly adhere to it and bet big on it, no matter how talented, insightful, or connected to the market you are, sooner or later you will lose everything.

It didn't help that he was bipolar. You think your invincible during the manic phase and can't function during the depression phase. A perfect recipe for win big, lose big, end it all. ;^)
Have you read the book?
Quoting Ever E. Man
My take away from Jesse Livermore's style:

"Being right" is not a strategy. If you stubbornly adhere to it and bet big on it, no matter how talented, insightful, or connected to the market you are, sooner or later you will lose everything.

It didn't help that he was bipolar. You think your invincible during the manic phase and can't function during the depression phase. A perfect recipe for win big, lose big, end it all. ;^)
Two days later, the San Francisco Earthquake hit. Union Pacific was decimated; he’d made $250,000 literally overnight.
  • Post #36
  • Quote
  • Edited at 6:17am Nov 7, 2013 6:15am | Edited at 6:17am
I've read "Reminiscences of a Stock Operator" a couple of times, where I found what I believed to be his greatest failing, betting everything on "being right".

Though it read like a novel & had much advice on trading, I didn't find it helpful in actually helping me know where exactly to get in, or where to get out. Lots have read it but few are successful traders. ;^)

I looked through "Jesse Livermore: World's Greatest Stock Trader" by Richard Smitten several years ago. I didn't buy it, because, frankly, I found it depressing.

I, also, have "Trade Like Jesse Livermore" on my bookshelf, though I admit I haven't read it. I had already decided that Mr. Livermore was not in my estimation the greatest trader that ever lived.

I would like to think that Paul Rotter, "the flipper", who averaged, as I recall, $60 million a year for 11 years, trading his own account, & was not, as far as I know, predatory, and did not lose all his money was a better trader.

He rarely gave interviews, only one to my knowledge, and was not overly taken with his own importance. A quality I admire.

So, if you're interested in Livermore's style as described by Smitten, RJ, send me your address, and I'll mail you an unused copy of "Trade Like Jesse Livermore". Unless you already have it. or course! ;^)
It's good that you have read all this. I don't think the book as above was ever intended as a guide or a manual or whatever to learn about trading. It was more about the way Jesse did it, right or wrong, and about the tragedy that was his life.....for various reasons. Even still, there are some hidden gems that are still useful today. I found the book to be fascinating, as a biography.....in the same way that I found 'The Greatest' (about Muhammad Ali) fascinating, but it doesn't teach the reader how to box, nor is it intended to!!!

Thank you for your kind offer of the book, but I will pass on that because I'm not too interested in his style....just interested in his life. But I appreciate the offer...thank you very much
  • Post #38
  • Quote
  • Edited at 6:30am Nov 7, 2013 6:29am | Edited at 6:30am
Quoting frx_trader
Two days later, the San Francisco Earthquake hit. Union Pacific was decimated; he’d made $250,000 literally overnight.
Impressive! Paul Rotter often made, or lost, millions literally within seconds.

Funny how group perceptions elevate certain individuals to such elevated heights. ;^)

It reminds me of a study from the WSJ done years ago on monkeys.

A group of monkeys were given an amount of cherry juice, which they loved.

They were shown a variety of photos of other monkeys and taught that they could look at them longer only if they gave up some of their precious cherry juice.

Quite predictably, they wouldn't give up cherry juice for peers, but only for photos of dominant members of their tribe that held a high status, and the bottom areas of members of the opposite sex. ;^)

Do we live in monkey bodies, or what??? ;^D
Yep, Rotter was the bomb. You're a wise man, this section needs more 'yous'.

Quoting Ever E. Man
I've read "Reminiscences of a Stock Operator" a couple of times, where I found what I believed to be his greatest failing, betting everything on "being right".

Though it read like a novel & had much advice on trading, I didn't find it helpful in actually helping me know where exactly to get in, or where to get out. Lots have read it but few are successful traders. ;^)

I looked through "Jesse Livermore: World's Greatest Stock Trader" by Richard Smitten several years ago. I didn't buy it, because, frankly, I found it depressing.

I, also,...
Quoting realjumper
Thank you for your kind offer of the book, but I will pass on that because I'm not too interested in his style....just interested in his life. But I appreciate the offer...thank you very much

I realize the book was not a trading manual. I haven't found many books to be, though I bought a ton of them early on. They didn't keep me from blowing my account! ;^D

Though I don't like to make a point of it, close members of my family are bipolar, and I've had my own struggles, so reading about someone else's troubled life, in depth, probably doesn't hold as much appeal for me as it might for others. I'll stick to a wikipedia biography! ;^D

I'd love to have the money, though, I spent on all those books, seminars, workshops, expensive software, trading systems, travel expenses and prop shop fees, as I now live on Social Security! All bought and studied in order to reduce risk and maximize profit! ;^)

Can't complain, though! Life is good! ;^D
Thanks, Spreadbetter, for the kind words.

Nice to know that someone else knows about Rotter.

But you're in the business, so you probably would! ;^D

& you're welcome, RJ; it was a real offer, you know?

If I ever make back the money I "invested", maybe I'll give away the books in my trading library, so lovingly selected, to traders here at FF as a way of giving back!

That would be nice! But don't hold your breath! ;^D
Quoting Ever E. Man
you're welcome, RJ; it was a real offer, you know?

If I ever make back the money I "invested", maybe I'll give away the books in my trading library, so lovingly selected, to traders here at FF as a way of giving back!

That would be nice! But don't hold your breath! ;^D
I don't doubt the sincerity of your kind offer for one second....it's a very generous offer, and I thank you for making it.

Trading is not easy and it took the best part of 4 years for me to become consistent in taking profits.....and I don't believe that anyone can spell out in steps, how to trade profitably. Which is why I just bought one book (in my profile) on a recommendation of a very good trader. The rest has to come from within you....and it takes time and practice to recognise your own ability and how best to use and develop those skills.

Trading is hard.....but you'll never 'get it', unless you keep trying!
Just to let you know that social security in the USA is what's termed benefits in the UK, but we're also adopting the word welfare to mean benefits and social security in the UK. You're retired drawing a pension, some of our readers might translate your being on social security as something entirely different from what you mean.

Quoting Ever E. Man
I realize the book was not a trading manual. I haven't found many books to be, though I bought a ton of them early on. They didn't keep me from blowing my account! ;^D

Though I don't like to make a point of it, close members of my family are bipolar, and I've had my own struggles, so reading about someone else's troubled life, in depth, probably doesn't hold as much appeal for me as it might for others. I'll stick to a wikipedia biography! ;^D

I'd love to have the money, though, I spent on all those books, seminars, workshops, expensive...
Quoting realjumper
....
Trading is not easy and it took the best part of 4 years for me to become consistent in taking profits.....and I don't believe that anyone can spell out in steps, how to trade profitably. Which is why I just bought one book (in my profile) on a recommendation of a very good trader. The rest has to come from within you....and it takes time and practice to recognise your own ability and how best to use and develop those skills.

Trading is hard.....but you'll never 'get it', unless you keep trying!
Well, I'm 70, and I've been at it over 13 years now, so I wouldn't know what else to do at this point! Besides, I just never got the knack of giving up! ;^D

Quite honestly, I've learned so much trying to find the right way to trade for me, that I feel it's a success if I'm never profitable. But it would be nice! ;^D

The most valuable lesson for me was a simple one: if the system/method doesn't fit my personality, I can't trade it no matter how profitable it is for everyone else!

"I don't believe that anyone can spell out in steps, how to trade profitably...." I couldn't agree more! There are a thousand little parts and pieces that have to work together to get it right. Just like designing an auto engine or a video game...

What you said about trading is soooo true! I'd read it many, many times, before I blew my account! ;^D

Which I have no regrets about, BTW. I learned a lot of valuable lessons the hard way, which is, I think, the way they really stick.

All that invaluable wisdom, & I do mean it, that you've just written was hard won, by you. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the same effect to hear it, & practice it, as it does to learn it at the school of hard knocks. At least, not for me! ;^D

Perhaps, you can give away knowledge, but not wisdom. Wisdom may be something you receive after much effort, not something you attain.

I don't like to take credit. It makes it hard to get my hat on! ;^D
Quoting Loadedgun
I never saw course mates in the academy who focused on military history turn out to be better commanders - I think this is groupie behavior for those not destined to be more than aftermarket participants (trainers, analysts etc but not traders who got the brains and insight). This is stupid and I wish I could delete my posts here and might just do that . Not happy about this company at all not happy
Now, about my recommendation (apparently based on outdated tech analysis) to those who trade the Euro (I don't) to sell rallies looking for 3150,

hows that coming along....?
Quoting Ever E. Man
Well, I'm 70, and I've been at it over 13 years now, so I wouldn't know what else to do at this point! Besides, I just never got the knack of giving up! ;^D

Quite honestly, I've learned so much trying to find the right way to trade for me, that I feel it's a success if I'm never profitable. But it would be nice! ;^D

The most valuable lesson for me was a simple one: if the system/method doesn't fit my personality, I can't trade it no matter how profitable it is for everyone else!

"I don't believe that anyone can spell out in steps, how...
Well I certainly hope that I'm as humble and wise as you when I reach retirement.

Trading is a great way to make money, but it's hard. I think of it like riding a bike.....in as much as, how the hell do you document 'balance??'.....of course you can't, any more than you can document 'how to swim'.....as you say, the school of hard knocks is the only place to learn this stuff.

For me....the Holy Grail *does* exist, but that Nigerian idiot doesn't have it...lol.....it's got another name...'Patience' <----- that, it the Holy Grail...imho.

You're a wise person......having no regrets is great....why worry about what you can't change??
Good decision on the V there buddy.

Quoting realjumper
Well I certainly hope that I'm as humble and wise as when I reach retirement.

Trading is a great way to make money, but it's hard. I think of it like riding a bike.....in as much as, how the hell do you document 'balance??'.....of course you can't, any more than you can document 'how to swim'.....as you say, the school of hard knocks is the only place to learn this stuff.

For me....the Holy Grail *does* exist, but that Nigerian idiot doesn't have it...lol.....it's got another name...'Patience' <----- that, it the Holy Grail...imho.

You're...
Quoting Spreadbetter
Good decision on the V there buddy.
Yup
It woz the dead entrails what did it...

All joking apart this is why his dangerous views and theories should lead to a ban, he's been deliberately encouraging new traders to stay long since the turning point on the daily time frame became evident from October 29/30th. To have stayed with his advice you'd be circa 400 pips offside. Hey, price may eventually recover to 14000 this year (unlikely) but you don't have to wear the loss he suggested whilst it gets there.

Quoting Ill-b-back
Now, about my recommendation (apparently based on outdated tech analysis) to those who trade the Euro (I don't) to sell rallies looking for 3150,

hows that coming along....?
Quoting realjumper
Well I certainly hope that I'm as humble...as you when I reach retirement.....

For me....the Holy Grail *does* exist,...it's got another name...'Patience' <----- that, it the Holy Grail...imho.

....why worry about what you can't change??
Ha, ha! Who can afford to retire? ;^D

You're right, RJ, patience is a key. To that I would add faith, in something outside yourself. It can be Love, it can be truth, or doing the right thing, or helping others,...it just can't be negative. That goes the other way! ;^D

It's even easier to have patience, if you have faith, even in yourself! Real peace of mind, though, in all situations, requires faith in something else.

We're just here for a while, you know..... ;^)
Quoting Ever E. Man
We're just here for a while, you know..... ;^)
Yeah....we're here for a good time....not a long time!!
Ha, ha! True, if you can make it happen! Some have it easy, some have it rough, but we all have a chance to learn something, I think...

BTW you remind me of another New Zealander, RJ, who thought life was an endless summer. It's one of my favorite videos on youtube, about the near death experience of one Ian McCormick.

I think you'd have fun with it since you're the adventurous type! ;^D

Thanks for the vouch! I couldn't figure out what you & spreadbetter were taking about! I'm a little dense...oh, well, back to work! ;^D

All the best to everyone!
Downward bound to 1.37 when price was already 'there', whilst insisting that 14000 will be reached short term so advises his 'subscribers' stay long. Price blasts through 1.37, his acolytes now potentially circa 300 pips down. Today he makes a call that fails. Yeah, perspective can be a right bitch eh?

Quoting Bilstein
Oct 30th:
Loadedgun shouts on his profile that the Euro is downward bound until 1.37.

November 1st:
The Euro trades below 1.35

Today's shout on his profile (12 hours ago):
Today's Euro trade

Take Profit:1.35942 stop: 1.34419 entry: 1.35053

As the Euro trades below 1.34 after ECB rate cut.

No harm in a little perspective.
Quoting Spreadbetter
Yeah, perspective can be a right bitch eh?

It's that damn pesky "1% margin of error".
LOL mutter LG, EUR/USD still going to 1.400 soon? Your holie grill chaos crystal ball is darn good!!!! LMAO with my shorts
Hahaha, yeah. Sorry I'm busy for an hour or two, just putting a bit of ice around the dead albatross entrails before I stuff em back in its ripped open gut, 'til the next time a high impact news event is on the horizon.

Quoting Bilstein
It's that damn pesky "1% margin of error".
Quoting Ever E. Man
Ha, ha! True, if you can make it happen! Some have it easy, some have it rough, but we all have a chance to learn something, I think...

BTW you remind me of another New Zealander, RJ, who thought life was an endless summer. It's one of my favorite videos on youtube, about the near death experience of one Ian McCormick.

I think you'd have fun with it since you're the adventurous type! ;^D

Thanks for the vouch! I couldn't figure out what you & spreadbetter were taking about! I'm a little dense...oh, well, back to work! ;^D

All the...
As we say in the sport.....'skydivers know why the birds sing'.......

Good talking with you....it's 3am and time to sleep
Quoting Spreadbetter
Just to let you know that social security in the USA is what's termed benefits in the UK, but we're also adopting the word welfare to mean benefits and social security in the UK. You're retired drawing a pension, some of our readers might translate your being on social security as something entirely different from what you mean.
Thanks, spreadbetter! I didn't know that! Well, it wouldn't make me less of a person, no matter where the money came from, but I just happened to have worked all my life, plus 4+ yrs of military service, for the small compensation I gratefully receive!

I probably should call it a pension, then...makes me feel older, though. ;^D

I'm sure you're aware that the FED/BLS/Treasury massage the numbers so they have to pay less to us pensioners....well, that's okay. It is what it is, & I'm grateful for it! ;^)
Quoting spreadbetter
what we should do is take bets on how long his village has a black out this time, i'm going for 3 days. Assuming he doesn't get stoned and banished for sharing his trading methods with the chief.

what?!
Hahahahahahaha!
To be fair - I did not expect a rate cut and that is something out of my control - there is no way to read a fluctuant like that so my trade for the day was wrong and I lost but so what?

BTW: I was out all day and just got back to my station to see the tragic debacle but you cannot win them all and that is fact.
Quoting Loadedgun
To be fair - I did not expect a rate cut .
Some people knew as early as 31 of October. On that day they just kept dumping huge orders. You can even see it on the intraday chart that many were buying that day, but someone huge kept dumping. Unlike today, it was a zig zag. Today it was just a free fall when everybody knew, but there somebody kept the price from going up.Poor folks who were buying.

Too bad some zionists make money this easy.
Quoting Loadedgun
To be fair - I did not expect a rate cut and that is something out of my control - there is no way to read a fluctuant like that so my trade for the day was wrong and I lost but so what?

BTW: I was out all day and just got back to my station to see the tragic debacle but you cannot win them all and that is fact.
Typical excuse again - I was out..........

"I did not expect a rate cut........." What? Are you Mario's PA or something who sucks on Mario's balls (oops I meant crystal ball) - perhaps that how you don't need technical for your chaos theory. What a laugh LMFAO with my SHORTS - hear that LG my SHORTS!
Quoting Spreadbetter
Downward bound to 1.37 when price was already 'there', whilst insisting that 14000 will be reached short term so advises his 'subscribers' stay long. Price blasts through 1.37, his acolytes now potentially circa 300 pips down. Today he makes a call that fails. Yeah, perspective can be a right bitch eh?
Do you think and sure ECB will cut rate today? NO YOU DON"T
1. Mr. LG just share his perspective with risk and reward 1:2
(buy euro 3505 SL 3441 TP 3594)
2. Mr.LG write stop loss , i think is normal if hit on stop in forex trading.
Quoting Bilstein
Nah bro. I'm not wrong. If there is anything I know about you it's that you vehemently defend your calls and analysis with other posters. The fact that you're so quick to pull the rip cord on this one and bail out is proof enough for anyone who's ever had any experience with you.

"Euro downward bound until 1.37" - Shouted on your profile on 10/30/2013

WRONG.

Then your Euro trade of the day - Shouted on your profile today;


WRONG.

No matter how many "ROFL" smileys you plaster around your posts it doesn't take away from the fact...
Thank you Bilstein, i am 100% behind you. Very well expressed :-D
Quoting Loadedgun
To be fair - I did not expect a rate cut and that is something out of my control - there is no way to read a fluctuant like that so my trade for the day was wrong and I lost but so what?

BTW: I was out all day and just got back to my station to see the tragic debacle but you cannot win them all and that is fact.
This is my first time to read if some one make a call then was wrong and write again that get loss. No cheat, no lie, ACCEPTABLE. Gentle and fair enough.

I am sure on the next call will make profit bigger then loss.
Quoting Bilstein
Don't get fussy because you got called out. If you don't like it, don't crap on everyone else with your "vector analysis", "nonlinear regression models", and "unitary this and that" like it means anything. I'm all down for hearing about other folks' trading methods. But if you're gonna barrel in and lay your nuts on the table, bragging about how big they are, don't get mad at us when we laugh after the market smashes them with a tack hammer.
Very well said, accurate and true.
If you make yourself a target, don't complain when you get shot.
Quoting Ill-b-back
If you make yourself a target, don't complain when you get shot.
Exactly.
You summed it up right there.
Twee is a deeply flawed admin - for instance, in his selective purging of these pages he shows why FF has a less than is desirable setup (in terms of administration) and exhibits a repugnant bias in favor of some specific posters that you got to ask what is the criteria since clearly the criteria cannot be even - truly disgusting that Twee stoops so low each time his interests are involved. He is either intimidated, corrupt or incompetent to execute such a clear and biased admin platform - really shameless.

Or all of the above Nice One!

BTW: If you want to censor pages do it with evenness so that it is clear what you are doing rather than promoting the argument for one side.
Quoting Loadedgun
Twee is a deeply flawed admin - for instance, in his selective purging of these pages he shows why FF has a less than is desirable setup (in terms of administration) and exhibits a repugnant bias in favor of some specific posters that you got to ask what is the criteria since clearly the criteria cannot be even - truly disgusting that Twee stoops so low each time his interests are involved. He is either intimidated, corrupt or incompetent to execute such a clear and biased admin platform - really shameless.

Or all of the above Nice...
Stay on topic and you'll be ok.....
Quoting Ill-b-back
lol...
There is only one side that needs censoring

Funny that you blame someone for wrong call when you:

"Hope you guys are adding to cable shorts ready to land feet first on 1.57 " by Ill-b-back.

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Quoting Slim Buffett
That's an excellent article but I question the value
of his wisdom due to the suicidal outcome.

And "deanbo",
I doubt that you would make a pimple
on Livermore's ass. Just sayin'.
But how are we sure you are not a sucidal type - now way to tell until your death which could be soon or later. Really it is hard to use how someone ended as a measure of anything. Indeed it is never 100% conclusive how someone died it could be the case that something else took place.
Quoting Ill-b-back
Yep, I made that call "after" Cable made its rally on good GBP news (oops, I mean entrails)

WOW!!

You mean to say you are not in that trade despite this bullish retrace giving you a golden opportunity to buy some more USD at a bargain price???

Maybe you need a new teacher....
1. I play EM pairs.

2. Sorry, you seem to be more like a gambler. 50/50
Quoting Kuba
1. I play EM pairs.

2. Sorry, you seem to be more like a gambler. 50/50
A gambler?

Well I sure as heck didn't "gamble" on the Euro yesterday that's for sure

The dead entrails of the ECB just can't be trusted,

But you know that right??

Now I'm heading off to dinner, enjoy yourself.
Quoting jonathanhk
LMAO with my shorts, sounds irritating as it is Shorts hear me? Remember your master LG brushing the yearly pivot line .3833 that I mentioned as a tech line to go short?

Perhaps next tell yourself and your master LG, everyone have their own strategy to trade, there is absolutely no need to brush everyone down just to glorify your holie grill chaos theory.

I'm sure you monthly subscription folks to LG had lost quite a BIG chunk this round? In forex, to be honest, we are bound to lose and win, but there is no need to be so bloody cocky on...
1. Again, I dont play eurusd.

2. You are the one who is attacking. Read again your post and find how much anger and agression there is. You are very emotional.

3. It has nothing to do with Bill William theory. (but you should know it before attacking.)

4. Even if it was yearly pivot, so what?
Quoting Kuba
1. Again, I dont play eurusd.

2. You are the one who is attacking. Read again your post and find how much anger and agression there is. You are very emotional.

3. It has nothing to do with Bill William theory. (but you should know it before attacking.)

4. Even if it was yearly pivot, so what?

I'm not attacking, just find it funny when you folks turn the table and says everyone are attacking you folks when you bunch of re-invented chaos clowns are firing chaos blanks all over the place. If you want to get better treatment, then treat others with DUE respect.

BTW - even if it was yearly pivot - that was the point where I shorted, duh!

Ain't arguing with you nor your master LG, off to trading table.
Quoting jonathanhk
I'm not attacking, just find it funny when you folks turn the table and says everyone are attacking you folks when you bunch of re-invented chaos clowns are firing chaos blanks all over the place. If you want to get better treatment, then treat others with DUE respect.

BTW - even if it was yearly pivot - that was the point where I shorted, duh!

Ain't arguing with you nor your master LG, off to trading table.
The same, I find funny when you write your theories. That is normal. We will never agree on this.

I dont want any treatment from you. You are just some guy on some forum for me. Dont get to confident.

I just pointed out your attitude toward people with whom you dont agree.

What is more, stop writing like you know my positions.

Thats all
Quoting Guest
But how are we sure you are not a sucidal type - now way to tell until your death which could be soon or later. Really it is hard to use how someone ended as a measure of anything. Indeed it is never 100% conclusive how someone died it could be the case that something else took place.
As I mentioned earlier, depression, even today is a very insidious killer. The lawyer I spoke of was one on NZ's top criminal lawyers and had just won a major case. He had it all....fame, money, family, beautiful home, the Mercedes etc etc etc, yet he committed suicide, and the note he left shows that he was very depressed and had been treated for it previously. His wife didn't even know!!

now step back to Jesse's life......in those times depression wasn't even recognised by the best medics in the world....he had nowhere to turn and so he ended it.

because he suffered from depression in no way diminishes the magnitude of his accomplishments. Sure, he made mistakes, but he kept coming back, in spectacular fashion and he left a lot of money and assets behind, so he was successful to the end.......but he didn't see it that way because that's what depression does to a person!
  • Post #78
  • Quote
  • Edited at 9:22pm Nov 8, 2013 5:23am | Edited at 9:22pm
So why don't stop acting like you know and state clearly your views about next months. In other words is it going to be a down year for euro(2013 open 3195) or not and based on what since the aim is contribution no?
Suppose entrails and voodoo provide 2 months foresight ATM?

Cheers and Nice... Two!
Ask me wrt your "intellectual level"? Er how does that work? I state that you're holding onto your sanity by a gossamer thread stretched beyond its normal tensile strength? You're unhealthy, you're damaged and are displaying (amongst your other personality disorders) a multi personality disorder.

Quoting Timetraveler
I stopped arguing with medics when they told me I had weak sperm and ended up with 3 kids. Laughed each time they did their christian cross.

Nevertheless medics(and weather guys) come up with the same conclusions that fundamentals give when they read our entrails to tell the future of our health.

I checked the comments of those who did read it and it is a biography not a trading approach which in his case was a bit diverged like gambling no?

You obviously too have no knowledge of what I know or what I'm capable of so cut the know-it-all...
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Quoting realjumper
because he suffered from depression in no way diminishes the magnitude of his accomplishments. Sure, he made mistakes, but he kept coming back, in spectacular fashion and he left a lot of money and assets behind, so he was successful to the end.......but he didn't see it that way because that's what depression does to a person!
Oh sure you do not have to go into a lot of details for me - I am depressed right now even as I write - not sure it is clinical depression of the sort we call manic depression or bi polar disorder since no shrink will confirm it - but if you know what I know about the market and its structure and dynamics it is profoundly amazing and yet I do feel like ending it all sometimes - really sometimes I come to FF to just take some of that away but then again sometimes that leaves me even more depressed - there is something about genius and mental health and really there is something there - so I understand in a lot of ways what we are talking about. Really do. Cheers
Quoting Loadedgun
To be fair - I did not expect a rate cut and that is something out of my control - there is no way to read a fluctuant like that so my trade for the day was wrong and I lost but so what?

BTW: I was out all day and just got back to my station to see the tragic debacle but you cannot win them all and that is fact.
I wet myself reading this... Oh the irony! Fundamentals, oh sorry I mean fluctuant, came back and bit you in the arse. That is what you get when you ignore the fundamentals... Every man and his dog was predicting the rate cut but you chose to ignore it and all other fundamentals. You will never make it!
One clear lesson I took from that great book, was that Livermore knew no one had a crystal ball and that in the end the path that stock prices take, i.e. chart patterns, were/are a reflection of market-maker activity and underlying fundamentals. Analysis is not for predicting the future but for telling us to be long or short now, or not.

The last two sessions were wild in the financials --- market makers "reset" USDJPY to put themselves in a better position for a potential upside break-out while EURUSD is trying to shift it's 50-day pattern lower -- but they have given us great definition for next week's trade!
Is that you LG?

Quoting Guest
Oh sure you do not have to go into a lot of details for me - I am depressed right now even as I write - not sure it is clinical depression of the sort we call manic depression or bi polar disorder since no shrink will confirm it - but if you know what I know about the market and its structure and dynamics it is profoundly amazing and yet I do feel like ending it all sometimes - really sometimes I come to FF to just take some of that away but then again sometimes that leaves me even more depressed - there is something about genius and mental health...
Anyone ever 'use' or are influenced any of the quotes attributed to him? Here's a selection, that are as fresh today as they were during his lifetime. For me it's these type of quotes that elevate Reminiscences into something quite special and I'm speaking as someone who hasn't really bought into the whole Jesse myth. Look at quote 3 and think about it in relation to where price action happens and why...

1: The only thing to do when a person is wrong is to be right, by ceasing to be wrong. Cut your losses quickly, without hesitation. Don’t waste time. When a stock moves below a mental-stop, sell it immediately.

2: Emotional control is the most essential factor in playing the market. Never lose control of your emotions when the market moves against you. Don’t get too confident over your wins or too despondent over your losses.

3: Watch the market leaders, the stocks that have led the charge upward in a bull market. That is where the action is and where the money is to be made. As the leaders go, so goes the entire market. If you cannot make money in the leaders, you are not going to make money in the stock market. Watching the leaders keeps your universe of stocks limited, focused, and more easily controlled.

4: There is nothing new on Wall Street or in stock speculation. What has happened in the past will happen again, and again, and again. This is because human nature does not change, and it is human emotion, solidly build into human nature, that always gets in the way of human intelligence. Of this I am sure.





Quoting Trout
One clear lesson I took from that great book, was that Livermore knew no one had a crystal ball and that in the end the path that stock prices take, i.e. chart patterns, were/are a reflection of market-maker activity and underlying fundamentals. Analysis is not for predicting the future but for telling us to be long or short now, or not.

The last two sessions were wild in the financials --- market makers "reset" USDJPY to put themselves in a better position for a potential upside break-out while EURUSD is trying to shift it's 50-day pattern...
Quoting Spreadbetter
Is that you LG?
Was wondering that also!! Is that you mate?
Wow! this thread, friday and a beer in my hand..
Need no TV :-D
And it's been purged :-0

Quoting braincooler
Wow! this thread, friday and a beer in my hand..
Need no TV :-D
Quoting Spreadbetter
And it's been purged :-0
Haha, really?
Well i will always wonder what i missed.
There was some criticism of the admin from specific places south of Sweden..
Was any user banned or censored only
;-)
Quoting braincooler
Haha, really?
Well i will always wonder what i missed.
Try the bleeding obvious!!
Quoting Spreadbetter
Anyone ever 'use' or are influenced any of the quotes attributed to him? Here's a selection, that are as fresh today as they were during his lifetime. For me it's these type of quotes that elevate Reminiscences into something quite special and I'm speaking as someone who hasn't really bought into the whole Jesse myth. Look at quote 3 and think about it in relation to where price action happens and why...

1: The only thing to do when a person is wrong is to be right, by ceasing to be wrong. Cut your losses quickly, without hesitation. Don’t waste time. When a stock moves below a mental-stop, sell it immediately.

2: Emotional control is the most essential factor in playing the market. Never lose control of your emotions when the market moves against you. Don’t get too confident over your wins or too despondent over your losses.

3: Watch the market leaders, the stocks that have led the charge upward in a bull market. That is where the action is and where the money is to be made. As the leaders go, so goes the entire market. If you cannot make money in the leaders, you are not going to make money in the stock market. Watching the leaders keeps your universe of stocks limited, focused, and more easily controlled.

4: There is nothing new on Wall Street or in stock speculation. What has happened in the past will happen again, and again, and again. This is because human nature does not change, and it is human emotion, solidly build into human nature, that always gets in the way of human intelligence. Of this I am sure.
Solid advice in my opinion. Thank you .
Two more off the top of my head so mightn't be perfect; "I made more money sittin rather than doin" and "you never know 'til you bet".


Quoting deanbo
Solid advice in my opinion. Thank you .
Ok, Thanks Spread Better, probably a well- founded decision. However, I missed what was said of him that justifies banning . I have not followed this long enough though.

But is it possible that traders followed his misleading instructions and lost money because of them? Maybe, if you have a similar mindset and strategies.
For me it has always been only entertainment. I have found my own approach, wich is far from vectors and regressor engines etc.

Yes, perhaps this environment improved, however, it's usually more fun to avoid banning and come to mutual respect towards each other. But, it is sometimes a relief that the banning feature is available ..

I wonder if I will miss phrases such as : "what a laugh at a scandal "
" Nice one " "what a mutt" etc. .

Or such as this one for the news: Euro rallies on reduced ECB cut hopes and strong German data , Aussie strong.

"Really Is that why the euro has been rising ? Funny I am trading the euro up Because my vectors ( from my regressor engine) are pointing up into the range of interest ( and certainly not Because of this headline since I do not care a damn about ecb ) but I am sure these guys have a polling system ( else what are they talking about and how would they know ) That asks the universe or a sample of the traders That traded up at the point from Which the euro rose (not to mention Those Who havebeen trading up for days , weeks and months now ) why They hit the buy button - and everyone Answered " ooooooooh it is Because we feel ecb will not raise rates "what gass "

It is likely , however, that more aliases will be created.
:-)
Livermore was the greatest trader who ever wrote.

The greatest trader who ever lived was actually Gann.

The the title of greatest trader who lives is torn between Buffet & Soros.
  • Post #94
  • Quote
  • Edited at 9:21am Nov 9, 2013 8:14am | Edited at 9:21am
Quoting wmd
Livermore was the greatest trader who ever wrote.

The greatest trader who ever lived was actually Gann.

The the title of greatest trader who lives is torn between Buffet & Soros.
None of this makes sense as the world turns - really there is still life and time ahead for this distraction. The issue right now is how has the average trader become better off? Really I do not understand what this struggle for title serves? Nice One!

BTW: Who is measuring? By what standards? and who really cares? think about it - how does it affect the price of fish especially if you do not know any better right now about the market than you did yesterday?
This thread is still alive?

Well, okay, trying to remain topical; personally, I enjoyed "Reminiscences of a Stock Operator". I never looked at it as "trading advice" or a "learning tool" I just really enjoyed the way is was written in that "roaring 20's" vernacular. I read it early on in my trading "venture" and it was a refreshing break from books about technical analysis and market micro structure.

All truths, titles, and whatnot aside, I thought it was a cool story.
Quoting Bilstein
This thread is still alive?

Well, okay, trying to remain topical; personally, I enjoyed "Reminiscences of a Stock Operator". I never looked at it as "trading advice" or a "learning tool" I just really enjoyed the way is was written in that "roaring 20's" vernacular. I read it early on in my trading "venture" and it was a refreshing break from books about technical analysis and market micro structure.

All truths, titles, and whatnot aside, I thought it was a cool story.
Fair if you had nothing better doing. Was your time and in economics the measure for anything consumed is utility or the satisfaction gained in terms of opportunity cost. my point is merely that this is a bit overdone and for what?
Quoting Loadedgun
Fair if you had nothing better doing. Was your time and in economics the measure for anything consumed is utility or the satisfaction gained in terms of opportunity cost. my point is merely that this is a bit overdone and for what?
I agree with you, I mean, I took some bits from the book but really, it was just a good story to read before bed is all. You'll have to forgive me if I didn't take into consideration opportunity cost when reading a book as I lie awake in bed.
Quoting Bilstein
I agree with you, I mean, I took some bits from the book but really, it was just a good story to read before bed is all. You'll have to forgive me if I didn't take into consideration opportunity cost when reading a book as I lie awake in bed.
Oh you did - that is the funny thing - we assume all human beings are rational whether they express this rationality explicitly or intuitively - in other words you must have made some mental check and decided the book was the best from competing alternatives - and so worth your time at that point or those points you gave it a read. Economics is complete in its logic - that is why - pardon me - it is idiotic for anyone to think there is merit in fundamental analysis - when we say there is none for the purpose of trading.

Nice One!
Quoting Loadedgun
Oh you did - that is the funny thing - we assume all human beings are rational whether they express this rationality explicitly or intuitively - in other words you must have made some mental check and decided the book was the best from competing alternatives - and so worth your time at that point or those points you gave it a read. Economics is complete in its logic - that is why - pardon me - it is idiotic for anyone to think there is merit in fundamental analysis - when we say there is none for the purpose of trading.

Nice One!
I dunno, the decision to read the book really wasn't a "process" lol. I just kinda read it. I got it for my brother for his birthday and he never got around to reading it so I just figured "what the hell?" and read it myself. As for fundamental analysis being "idiotic" - I can't make that claim. I know everyone who participates on this forum has their own way of analyzing the market - including you. Who am I to say one method is better than another given that many members decline to create real money, live trade explorers for others to analyze.

Sadly, a Forex forum isn't going to be all that different from any other forum; whether it be about news, video games, or movies. It's a place where people are supposed to gather and exchange ideas and realistically, in the end, it's just a place where people go and tout that their opinions are better and everyone else is stupid. I'm not just referencing the experience we've had here. That trend resonates across many threads on the forum. It is what it is, I suppose.
  • Post #100
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  • Edited at 12:33pm Nov 9, 2013 10:21am | Edited at 12:33pm
Quoting Bilstein
I dunno, the decision to read the book really wasn't a "process" lol. I just kinda read it. I got it for my brother for his birthday and he never got around to reading it so I just figured "what the hell?" and read it myself. As for fundamental analysis being "idiotic" - I can't make that claim. I know everyone who participates on this forum has their own way of analyzing the market - including you. Who am I to say one method is better than another given that many members decline to create real money, live trade explorers for others to analyze.

Sadly,...
a) With respect to the book I told you how it is analysed in economics. We say (and it does not require your agreement) that you made a rational decision at the time you read the book. That is the way it works. It may not really be important to you but that is how we work in economic analysis. You can check that out with any authority on the subject.

b) the issue here is not about opinions - it is about reason backed by proof. I understand that because we are in an exchange as members with equal rights you assume it is only appropriate then that everything among us should be expressed in a way that maintains some equilibrating balance. That is not true - and as a consequence there is an argument ongoing a struggle for the truth and progress resulting from the truth - like it or not - it is not by being politically correct that the truth spreads.

c) when I say something is stupid I mean it in the absolute sense - that is it can be proven to be stupid by the strictures of the discipline with which it is being justified. There is therefore nothing civilized about a contrary opinion or even tack in expressing the same thing given that the very existence of this ignorance (especially on the scale we find it here) is discivilizing.

Cheers - may be we leave it at that. Nice One!

Few people can stand the truly brilliant among them (especially in a business such as this) even when it is true that the brilliant of mind understand that about them. I say this in passing and without reference in any sense to our little conversation here.
It needs to be understood that not only do I know this thing beyond the common - I am passionate about others seeing the light. Nice One!
me, just reading it now. real good stuff . this guy seem totally sane. it could be 100 reasons why he took his life, could even be fake suicide.....
What's a ''fake suicide'' again?
Quoting backinblackl
What's a ''fake suicide'' again?
when someone kills person and makes it look like suicide.

seen lots of this on the movies.
Quoting seaman2
when someone kills person and makes it look like suicide.

seen lots of this on the movies.
Inserted Video


Is this the way to do it?
Best book ever. Does anyone know if there's a movie about it or something related?
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