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  • Ignore The Noise, 2 Reasons To Stay Short EUR/USD - Citi

    From efxnews.com

    The price action in EUR/USD overnight was a painful reminder to the ECB that it may have to try harder if it wants to compete in the global currency wars, says Citibank. "One could argue that market dollar longs and thin market liquidity overnight exacerbated the selloff. Then again, there is no denying that the dollar is, once again, a 'victim' of the 'trigger-happy' proactive Fed and the euro is supported by ECB' image of being the most conservative major central bank (CB) while," Citi adds. The question is then whether the difference between the two CBs could support the currency pair over longer period of time. ... (full story)

  • #1
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  • Jul 11, 2013 11:39am Jul 11, 2013 11:39am
don't ignore anything
  • #2
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  • Jul 11, 2013 11:54am Jul 11, 2013 11:54am
Ask yourself: Why do they tell us if we are their competitors ?
  • #3
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  • Jul 11, 2013 11:58am Jul 11, 2013 11:58am
  •  Trader#4D23
  • | Status: Unregistered Trader
That is unwise. I can't ignore a 300 + pip move.
  • #4
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  • Jul 11, 2013 12:04pm Jul 11, 2013 12:04pm
oil rolling over.
  • #5
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  • Jul 11, 2013 12:08pm Jul 11, 2013 12:08pm
Quoting timos
Ask yourself: Why do they tell us if we are their competitors ?
If we go down and they go down the price will more likely go down more and we make money together. They are not (i think) bamboozling competitors, but recruiting allies.
  • #6
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  • Jul 11, 2013 12:14pm Jul 11, 2013 12:14pm
Quoting Rap Skallion
If we go down and they go down the price will more likely go down more and we make money together. They are not (i think) bamboozling competitors, but recruiting allies.
Well,how many times have they been right?
I remember few months ago,when an institution or bank (don't remember who and which one) said stay long for euro,target 1.37 and that day euro started to climb like a hell to 1.28.
They may be right,this time we may be into the same boat
  • #7
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  • Jul 11, 2013 12:49pm Jul 11, 2013 12:49pm
I put more trust in Goldman then Citi, though Goldman got smacked upside down in their latest long .3060 SL at .28 - got stopped by 47pips for them

Let's see and trade if .2930 can be hit - with the lines I have on my charts.
  • #8
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  • Jul 11, 2013 1:15pm Jul 11, 2013 1:15pm
Don't listen to this shit boys, they all have hedged positions on both ends...You do it too. Who give's a sh,t where you enter, it's where you exit that counts!
  • #9
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  • Jul 11, 2013 1:16pm Jul 11, 2013 1:16pm
I go by the citi looking at my strategy
  • #10
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  • Jul 11, 2013 1:53pm Jul 11, 2013 1:53pm
Quoting timos
Ask yourself: Why do they tell us if we are their competitors ?
no do not underestimate citi because last time they told 3 reasons why do we sell euro, and that happened euro fell 200 pips
  • #11
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  • Jul 11, 2013 2:10pm Jul 11, 2013 2:10pm
Hmmm, I kinda get what your saying but entries are very important, particularly in relation to your stop>risk>position size. I long ago learned that we'll never be satisfied with our exits (when measured over a reasonable sample of trades) but you can be completely satisfied with your entries in relation to your bullet proof trading plan.

Quoting backinblackl
Don't listen to this shit boys, they all have hedged positions on both ends...You do it too. Who give's a sh,t where you enter, it's where you exit that counts!
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #12
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  • Jul 11, 2013 2:24pm Jul 11, 2013 2:24pm
Quoting Spreadbetter
Hmmm, I kinda get what your saying but entries are very important, particularly in relation to your stop>risk>position size. I long ago learned that we'll never be satisfied with our exits (when measured over a reasonable sample of trades) but you can be completely satisfied with your entries in relation to your bullet proof trading plan.

I always close my trades with small profit and after that I repent.... but i think i am a successful trader because I take profit, profit is profit... small or big
https://my.hfm.com/en/hfcopy/provider-details.html?provider=78024851
  • #13
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  • Jul 11, 2013 3:03pm Jul 11, 2013 3:03pm
herd is short and advised to stay short for more loses.
  • #14
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  • Jul 11, 2013 3:20pm Jul 11, 2013 3:20pm
or more wins...I'm selling every DCB and making a killing! Mooooooooo!
  • #15
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  • Jul 11, 2013 3:37pm Jul 11, 2013 3:37pm
Set aside any misdirection conspiracy theories and ask yourself this; if with all their access to the finest quants, analysts, traders and micro second trading algos they still get it wrong, what does that tell you about the quality of anyone's forecasting? ;-) they're actually no 'better' than me or you at predicting direction.


Quoting xetrader
no do not underestimate citi because last time they told 3 reasons why do we sell euro, and that happened euro fell 200 pips
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #16
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  • Jul 11, 2013 3:54pm Jul 11, 2013 3:54pm
EU continuously fell down from 1.3413 to 1.2754 and I think now the up movement is re tracement, trend is still bearish, I will go with citi.
https://my.hfm.com/en/hfcopy/provider-details.html?provider=78024851
  • #17
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  • Jul 11, 2013 6:08pm Jul 11, 2013 6:08pm
Looks like it will range between 1.32 and 1.3 or next few days. The question is which way it will break.
  • #18
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  • Jul 11, 2013 6:54pm Jul 11, 2013 6:54pm
Citi is right. That liquid market spiking on Ben's empty words are now hypnotizing an easily amused bunch of traders. EUR/USD is still bearish
  • #19
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  • Jul 11, 2013 7:45pm Jul 11, 2013 7:45pm
Ignoring the reasons - I agree on direction (given we got far more efficient ways of telling). Nice one!
  • #20
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  • Jul 11, 2013 8:55pm Jul 11, 2013 8:55pm
IGNORE THE NOISE BUY!! hahaha
"I made money every time you place your Stop loss too close to ME"
  • #21
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  • Jul 12, 2013 1:30am Jul 12, 2013 1:30am
Quoting timos
Ask yourself: Why do they tell us if we are their competitors ?
I have asked myself and others this very question a number of times.
The lack of any response tells me everything I need to know

Going by history, I would argue that most article contributors (banks, bloomberg etc) are amongst the worst traders on the planet.
It does not make any sense to me that the most powerful financial institutions in the world can get it so terribly wrong almost everytime. And yet they continue to get nearly ALL of the media coverage!!
What do you think is going on here?
Go on, take a WILD guess.
lol.....
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #22
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  • Edited 3:29am Jul 12, 2013 2:20am | Edited 3:29am
Quoting timos
Ask yourself: Why do they tell us if we are their competitors ?
Because you got it completely wrong it is a market and not a casino - people exchange values here not win stakes from a fixed pot. They understand that you do not. Of all the backward ideas retail traders burden and confuse their minds with the most laughable is the idea that your loss is another entities gain. While that sense is understandable given the reality of how we feel when we lose - the truth is very different - it is a market and no one actually need lose. But you can only see this if you look at it from the perspective of say a tourist buying forex for travel (or an importer/exporter or any other of millions of real motivations that drive the market other than speculation). Yes the price might not be what you desire at the time you purchase forex for travel but you buy it all the same - why? Because you value your upcoming trip more than the differential and it is such differentials in valuation the define and drive all markets (not just forex). Read up some of the economics of this and it might help.

The other absurd notion people carry is that these people know something we as retailers could never know and therefore always have a sense of where the market is headed. In fact and like my post elsewhere on his thread suggests they (on average) have no advantage either of foreknowledge or proprietary skill that puts them ahead of any knowledgeable retail trader - because the market is a mathematically chaotic system - no more no less and that fact evens the playing field such that if you understand the implications you will never make the mistake of holding either myth. Such a pity people live and trade with this mentality which is really borne of ignorance and a certain lack of sophistication. Real pity indeed. Nice One!

BTW: There are a million good reasons for a bank to go public with its views and currency positions. None of which has anything to do with doing anyone in. Rather they have a stake in and are promoting their brand mostly. Pity most traders come in with a very narrow experience of the business world. But what I have said here is the truth and based on real world experience of business at the highest levels (not to mention incontrovertible economic precepts but why people will not work with that baffles me to no end).
  • #23
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  • Jul 12, 2013 2:30am Jul 12, 2013 2:30am
Quoting Loadedgun
The other absurd notion people carry is that these people know something we as retailers could never know and therefore always have a sense of where the market is headed
True. However, "these people" don't need to know where the market is headed, they only need to know how to manipulate it short term. It's rather easy to notice when a game is in play...
  • #24
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  • Jul 12, 2013 2:30am Jul 12, 2013 2:30am
  •  Trader#90D6
  • | Status: Unregistered Trader
Quoting Loadedgun
Because you got it completely wrong it is a market and not a casino - people exchange values here not win stakes from a fixed pot. They understand that you do not. Of all the backward ideas retail traders burden and confuse the minds with is the idea that your loss is another entities gain. While that framework is understandable given the reality of how we feel when we lose - the truth is very different - it is a market and no one actually need lose. But you can only see this if you are say a tourist buy forex for travel. Yes the price might not...
Finally you have come to realise too that there is a market, ie fundamental! Instead of chaos...
  • #25
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  • Jul 12, 2013 2:41am Jul 12, 2013 2:41am
Quoting Mingary
True. However, "these people" don't need to know where the market is headed, they only need to know how to manipulate it short term. It's rather easy to notice when a game is in play...
A third myth - the idea that the market can be manipulated.To understand why that is impossible is part microstructure but like I hint at above more fundamentally the fact of a mathematically chaotic system. However, it is indeed the third ignorant view many carry around - market manipulation. Not so sir whether in theory or in practice. It is not doable since all actions of a transactional nature entail direct financial risk. Were that not the case then you would have a point. But given what I have said is true there cannot be by definition what we call manipulation. Cheers Nice One!
  • #26
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  • Jul 12, 2013 2:51am Jul 12, 2013 2:51am
Quoting Loadedgun
It is not doable since all actions of a transactional nature entail direct financial risk.
Yes, I agree, but isn't that common knowledge?
What "these people" do is to use price action (the more dramatic the better) to fulfill their internal business agenda.


i.e. How am I going to sell 1/2 billion euros VS usd without moving the market and without tipping my hand so I can get the best price possible.
  • #27
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  • Jul 12, 2013 3:01am Jul 12, 2013 3:01am
Quoting Mingary
Yes, I agree, but isn't that common knowledge?
What "these people" do is to use price action (the more dramatic the better) to fulfill their internal business agenda.


i.e. How am I going to sell 1/2 billion euros VS usd without moving the market and without tipping my hand so I can get the best price possible.
First like I said they cannot "use" price action especially since "these people" are actually quite disparate entities and in any case will be taking quite some risk acting that way for the purpose you have in mind (not really worth the pennies that would result). But just suppose you are right - PA is PA you can see it , they can see it and I can see it so if it fools you into a position that is what happened a lack of skill on your part not manipulation. I think we should drop it at this point. Cheers but nice chatting with you. Happy trading got to go look at how my trades are cooking. Nice one!
  • #28
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  • Jul 12, 2013 3:04am Jul 12, 2013 3:04am
Quoting Loadedgun
First like I said they cannot "use" price action especially since "these people" are actually quite disparate entities and in any case will be taking quite some risk acting that way for the purpose you have in mind (not really worth the pennies that would result). But just suppose you are right - PA is PA you can see it , they can see it and I can see it so if it fools you into a position that is what happened a lack of skill on your part not manipulation. I think we should drop it at this point. Cheers but nice chatting with you. Happy trading...
Ok then.. Bye (:
  • #29
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  • Jul 12, 2013 4:52am Jul 12, 2013 4:52am
One aspect is that the likes of JPM and GS do not put out trading advice for general consumption, they may be asked for a quote via Bloomberg or Reuters or make a pronouncement through their networks on either 'terminal'. Then someone picks up the statement and moulds it into an article. FX Briefs and EFX are the biggest culprits of that on here.

I'll send you a link and you'll see how detailed a report can be from the best and the brightest in our industry you'll see its a world away from the snippets and bird seed we eventually see handed down the food chain.

Quoting Ill-b-back
I have asked myself and others this very question a number of times.
The lack of any response tells me everything I need to know

Going by history, I would argue that most article contributors (banks, bloomberg etc) are amongst the worst traders on the planet.
It does not make any sense to me that the most powerful financial institutions in the world can get it so terribly wrong almost everytime. And yet they continue to get nearly ALL of the media coverage!!
What do you think is going on here?
Go on, take a WILD guess.
lol.....
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #30
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  • Jul 12, 2013 5:02am Jul 12, 2013 5:02am
Loadedgun .... good thoughts you post ....... well said.
  • #31
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  • Jul 12, 2013 6:18am Jul 12, 2013 6:18am
Quoting acetrader
Loadedgun .... good thoughts you post ....... well said.
Thanks - another thing is that long winded reports from banks and so on (of which I used to subscribe to as a newbie) are to be avoided like a plague - they are totally useless. Mostly designed to impress passive traders and give the impression that they (bank analysts) not only know what they are doing but are on top of things. This is a problem treated in economics under the general heading of agency.

Those clowns in the banks are the same in terms of ability as the average author of any article you see on FF. Their guess is as good as yours - only a moron would think otherwise. Most pretenders about want to suggest that they provide something of an edge - that is a hugely naive mindset borne out of crass ignorance. Like I have said - the market is a mathematically chaotic system and anyone with a knowledge of chaos will excel (plus a good knowledge of modeling). So be careful of taking advice from banks etc.

They routinely make losses and report the fact . Many upstart banks have had to shut their forex trading operations, and you know their traders are routinely jailed for fraud etc. So no big deal about them a lot of their operations are actually struggling so lets not worry about banks and their trading per se. Retail trading if you know what you are doing makes more sense a lot of the time. Cheers Nice One!
  • #32
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  • Jul 12, 2013 6:19am Jul 12, 2013 6:19am
Quoting acetrader
Loadedgun .... good thoughts you post ....... well said.
Loaded gun is well worth listening to.
  • #33
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  • Jul 12, 2013 6:27am Jul 12, 2013 6:27am
Quoting Spreadbetter
One aspect is that the likes of JPM and GS do not put out trading advice for general consumption, they may be asked for a quote via Bloomberg or Reuters or make a pronouncement through their networks on either 'terminal'. Then someone picks up the statement and moulds it into an article. FX Briefs and EFX are the biggest culprits of that on here.

I'll send you a link and you'll see how detailed a report can be from the best and the brightest in our industry you'll see its a world away from the snippets and bird seed we eventually see handed...
This maybe true, honestly, I wouldn't really know.
What I have noticed however particularly with the Euro and some extent cable, is that once the move is matured and bouncing off support/resistance, they give advice on the direct opposite direction of where the market actually goes.
At last years summit, it was fade the rally the summit is not a game changer. That was at 1.2 or so.
Anyway, 1700 pips later, it was hold your longs (what longs, I thought we were to fade the rally?), we are going to 1.4xx.
Anyway, now we are back down here, it's hold your shorts (what shorts, I thought we were going to 1.4xx).
Get in once the move is fully matured, buy very high, sell very low, (at BOTH ends of the spectrum) what faster way for retailers to blow their accounts.
Honestly, they very rarely get it right, even I, a Fulltime massage therapist and casual trader have a better track record. Makes no sense and when shit don't make no sense, something is up.
I don't doubt the banks etc make forex money despite their "apparent" poor performance, but I don't trust the mainstream media as far as I can crap after a weekend away.
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #34
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  • Jul 12, 2013 6:29am Jul 12, 2013 6:29am
Quoting Spreadbetter
One aspect is that the likes of JPM and GS do not put out trading advice for general consumption, they may be asked for a quote via Bloomberg or Reuters or make a pronouncement through their networks on either 'terminal'. Then someone picks up the statement and moulds it into an article. FX Briefs and EFX are the biggest culprits of that on here.

I'll send you a link and you'll see how detailed a report can be from the best and the brightest in our industry you'll see its a world away from the snippets and bird seed we eventually see handed...
This maybe true, honestly, I wouldn't really know.
What I have noticed however particularly with the Euro and some extent cable, is that once the move is matured and bouncing off support/resistance, they give advice on the direct opposite direction of where the market actually goes.
At last years summit, it was fade the rally the summit is not a game changer. That was at 1.2 or so.
Anyway, 1700 pips later, at 1.37, it was hold your longs, we are going to 1.4xx (what longs, I thought we were to fade the rally?).
Anyway, now we are back down here, it's hold your shorts (what shorts, I thought we were going to 1.4xx).
Get in once the move is fully matured, buy very high, sell very low, (at BOTH ends of the spectrum) what faster way for retailers to blow their accounts.
Honestly, they very rarely get it right, even I, a Fulltime massage therapist and casual trader have a better track record. Makes no sense and when shit don't make no sense, something is up.
I don't doubt the banks etc make forex money despite their "apparent" poor performance, but I don't trust the mainstream media as far as I can crap after a weekend away.
Come with me if you want to live....
  • #35
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  • Jul 12, 2013 6:30am Jul 12, 2013 6:30am
Quoting Rap Skallion
Loaded gun is well worth listening to.
His analysis is good to listen to but when he talks chaos, no one fooking understand as I'm a fooking noob!

I'm but just a noob who trade what my chart shows and follow what the market says
  • #36
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  • Jul 12, 2013 6:37am Jul 12, 2013 6:37am
  •  Trader#9826
  • | Status: Unregistered Trader
Quoting jonathanhk
His analysis is good to listen to but when he talks chaos, no one fooking understand as I'm a fooking noob!

I'm but just a noob who trade what my chart shows and follow what the market says
Not everyone is smart - most traders are lazy and they like rumors and cheap easy statements. But those do not work since everyone know about them. Yes I look up chaos and I understand it now - very useful not only for trading many other areas. Try an learn it too.
  • #37
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  • Jul 12, 2013 7:19am Jul 12, 2013 7:19am
  •  Trader#26DD
  • | Status: Unregistered Trader
Could you name the upstart banks you refer to and the fx operations they have shut? Have you noted the results from JPM today? As for retail "making more sense" in what way?

Quoting Loadedgun
They routinely make losses and report the fact . Many upstart banks have had to shut their forex trading operations, and you know their traders are routinely jailed for fraud etc. So no big deal about them a lot of their operations are actually struggling so lets not worry about banks and their trading per se. Retail trading if you know what you are doing makes more sense a lot of the time!
  • #38
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  • Jul 12, 2013 7:28am Jul 12, 2013 7:28am
Your analogy of the wheel is right, its been invented now it's just a lighter, shinier, more balanced alloy, but its still just a wheel. There is nothing new left to be discovered trading FX, its all been done, the best and brightest quants in IBs have tried everything and discarded the vast majority.

Anyone claiming to have found something new is a third world fraud setting up a sale aimed at the extremely gullible and naive. And many experienced traders have seen these frauds come and go over the past decade or so. The pitch is generally the same and the result is that mug punters lose a few hundred euros but to the fraud it's a kings ransom if he gets a hundred followers. These guys are generally failed traders or ideas guys who haven't got the funds to trade.


Quoting jonathanhk
Think you didn't understand me. Reading, progamming and writing indicators ain't difficult at all.

Its the constant fluff'boon theory that ain't much different from what had been done that fooking makes one not understand what the fook is the chap is trying to achieve.

Wheels have been invented, which are round. But when a fluff'boon comes talking about another wheel - just what the fook means to me - plain noise. Not to mention the constant verbal attacks that is neverending. O well it's soap drama.

FF is for tech disucssion, if one...
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #39
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  • Jul 12, 2013 7:44am Jul 12, 2013 7:44am
Quoting Guest
Could you name the upstart banks you refer to and the fx operations they have shut? Have you noted the results from JPM today? As for retail "making more sense" in what way?
You would be mighty stupid to imagine that I have time for your sort. Nice one!
  • #40
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  • Jul 12, 2013 7:56am Jul 12, 2013 7:56am
I'm not sure what an "upstart" bank is, I'm not aware of any major bank or IB closing their FX department. Naturally prop trading went through a metamorphosis due to the Volcker rule, for example JPM closed their commodities prop trading arm. However, they (like many IBs) then backed new starts, its how many amongst us managed to get a big break in the spin offs.

Quoting Guest
Could you name the upstart banks you refer to and the fx operations they have shut? Have you noted the results from JPM today? As for retail "making more sense" in what way?
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • #41
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  • Jul 12, 2013 9:28am Jul 12, 2013 9:28am
+1

Quoting Spreadbetter
There is nothing new left to be discovered trading FX, its all been done, the best and brightest quants in IBs have tried everything and discarded the vast majority.

Anyone claiming to have found something new is a third world fraud setting up a sale aimed at the extremely gullible and naive. And many experienced traders have seen these frauds come and go over the past decade or so. The pitch is generally the same and the result is that mug punters lose a few hundred euros but to the fraud it's a kings ransom if he gets a hundred followers.
  • #42
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  • Jul 12, 2013 2:50pm Jul 12, 2013 2:50pm
iirc Bill now gives his book away for free, to be fair back in the day, circa 1995, before this new fangled interweb thingy, it was fascinating, but its been debunked many times since. Chaos = random and there lies the irony. There is no maths model you can apply in that form to trading, if you could there wouldn't be a market, it really is that simple.

There's been a scammer on this forum attempting to 'take ownership' of Bill's theories, it follows the usual sales pathology; "this isn't any snake oil, no siree, this is the new improved snake oil with added cactus plant.."

It's bullshit, but you knew that anyway.

Quoting jonathanhk
This Bill Willam Chaos theory article is all over the place, just go to Alpari site and they give traders the exact Chaos Theory as the attached.

I often wonder what's new in this chaos theory and went to look into the fluff'boon claims and wrote the indicators and got fooked up of the time wasted programming it really becos the indicators I wrote behaved fooking identically as what is readily available in MT4 and MT5 under Bill Williams indicators.

So all in all, I can only say, what a fook! This is what I fooking call a reinvention of a...
  • #43
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  • Jul 12, 2013 2:58pm Jul 12, 2013 2:58pm
Bloody upstarts eh, they should give it up and trade "da retail forex innit" ;-)


JPMorgan Chase, the biggest U.S. bank, says its second-quarter earnings surged from a year ago as profits from investment banking grew.

The bank made $6.1 billion in the second quarter after stripping out payments to preferred shareholders. That was up 32 percent from the same period a year ago, when it made $4.6 billion. Profits in the year-ago period were affected by a trading loss.

JPMorgan's profits from investment banking surged 19 percent to $2.8 billion, driven by higher fees for underwriting debt and stock offerings as financial markets revived.

Average total deposits rose 8 percent to $389.5 billion from the same period a year ago. Mortgage loan applications rose 37 percent from the prior year to $66.9 billion, reflecting an increase in refinancing activity. The bank's mortgage originations rose 12 percent to $49 billion compared to a year ago, but fell 7 percent from the previous quarter.

The earnings were equivalent to $1.60 per share. That exceeded the estimates of analysts polled by FactSet, who had forecast earnings of $1.44 per share.

Revenue in the period grew by 14 percent to $25.2 billion. That compared with $24.9 billion forecast by analysts.


Quoting Guest
Could you name the upstart banks you refer to and the fx operations they have shut? Have you noted the results from JPM today? As for retail "making more sense" in what way?
  • #44
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  • Jul 12, 2013 3:05pm Jul 12, 2013 3:05pm
Quoting Squeeze
It's bullshit, but you knew that anyway.
Well I done my time programming it just to see what the holy grail this fluff'boon been bragging. Even before I started doing the MT4 programming, I knew it's reinventing the wheel but wanted to proof to myself that what this fluff'boon been glorifying is all in all - nothing new.

Been there, done it and all I can say is - fook me for doing it! But yippee happy that I done it, one good reason to skip whatever this snoobish fluff'boon brag about nowadays.

Hey that's learning something new everyday - ie relearning how a fooking wheel is made.

What I can't comprehend is how naive that this fluff'boon thinks that market moved becos of his chaos theory not by Uncle Ben or Draggy. Well a lot of articles are waste of space but this chaos theory done its time, so moved on.
  • #45
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  • Jul 12, 2013 3:55pm Jul 12, 2013 3:55pm
I like that.

Quoting jonathanhk

What I can't comprehend is how naive that this fluff'boon thinks that market moved becos of his chaos theory not by Uncle Ben or Draggy. .
  • #46
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  • Edited 4:11am Jul 13, 2013 3:56am | Edited 4:11am
Quoting jonathanhk
This Bill Willam Chaos theory article is all over the place, just go to Alpari site and they give traders the exact Chaos Theory as the attached.

I often wonder what's new in this chaos theory by this snoobish fluff'boon and went to look into the fluff'boon claims and wrote the indicators and got fooked up of the time wasted programming it really becos the indicators I wrote behaved fooking identically as what is readily available in MT4 and MT5 under Bill Williams indicators.

So all in all, I can only say, what a fook! This is what I fooking...
I took the Bill Williams seminar many years ago. Chaos and fractals were "hot" and captured the imagination. James Gleick became famous... Mr. Williams picked up on the popularity and built his "unique approach". Unfortunately, I was suckered into it as a total gullible noob.
Mr. Williams is a quack , it's been almost 20 years and I still want my money back..
  • #47
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  • Jul 13, 2013 6:50am Jul 13, 2013 6:50am
any successful trader needs not to be gullible but to take decision base on his/her experience about the direction of the market.. be wise my distinguished trader.
  • #48
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  • Jul 13, 2013 6:51am Jul 13, 2013 6:51am
400 odd pips, that's a lot of "noise".
It's not like the bullish PA was lazy either.

2 reasons (not) to ignore the noise...
Come with me if you want to live....
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  • Posted: Jul 11, 2013 11:23am
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