Menu
Sister Sites

  • Cypriot Finance Minister: uninsured Laiki depositors could face 80% haircut

well at least they still have 20% left...
Build good relationships with others.
that's not a haircut, that's a body cut
Haircuts like that and they be stylin'!
Chance favors the prepared
Still piling the pressure on I see.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
This is a sampling of whats to come for many nations. Its been a good run the past 50 years. Time to buckle up.
Paul Krugman wrote an article on this issue recently. The international experiment of free capital flows has failed.
Build good relationships with others.
This whole Cyprus 'rescue package' is a joke.....completely mishandled by incompetent idiots. If the EU bureaucrats want to kill Cyprus, they're going the right way about it. Muppets
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
Well this is only Low-Impact apparently
Build good relationships with others.
Quoting shellsnail
Paul Krugman wrote an article on this issue recently. The international experiment of free capital flows has failed.

Nah. This is unconnected with the unfettering of capital which is an agnostic process anyways and nothing anyone can influence. This is related to the Thatcherite and Reagan Cold War years when these two decided that the best way to fend of them bad commies was to extend home ownership, by hook or by crook.

The resulting debt burden plus derivatives bungle will now have to be soaked up in the ensuing globalising process...it will as well as there is vast capacity for accumulation.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  •  Guest
  • | IP XX.XXX.56.244
I am bald I don't need haircut. Thank you.
The Cypriot tail is wagging the Euro dog IMO. There can never be a precedent of this nature in any other nation. It would mean the end of capitalism, as we know it, and so do the technocrat duffers. It is just that they suffer from a foot-in-the-mouth disease. I am counting on a brief rally in the EUR/USD to 1.2932 levels. My call, let's see.
Quoting traider
... This is related to the Thatcherite and Reagan Cold War years when these two decided that the best way to fend of them bad commies was to extend home ownership, by hook or by crook....
Thatcher extended home ownership so that she could get support for having a community charge (aka poll-tax). There were probably some other beneficial side effects.....
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life!
Quoting Exodus
Thatcher extended home ownership so that she could get support for having a community charge (aka poll-tax). There were probably some other beneficial side effects.....
If you read some of the earlier political stuff on this development, these two determined that making as many workers into small capitalists was the way to go. The poll tax was then cottoned onto as a useful means to shift away from progressive taxation (along with using sales taxes...a conservative ambition).

The long and the short however, is that any idea that capital will revert back to local sources of accumulation (all becuase of a few overindebted and maximixed Euro nations), often enough slim when compared to say, Asia or Africa with their billions lacking infrastructure and commodities, is just nonsense.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
Both you and Exodus make valid points, Thatcher followed the Milton Friedman doctrine; trickle up economics that was a cruel joke given they (Thatcher & Reagan) described it as trickle down. Friedman believed every institution would be better if given over to private enterprise.

Quoting traider
Nah. This is unconnected with the unfettering of capital which is an agnostic process anyways and nothing anyone can influence. This is related to the Thatcherite and Reagan Cold War years when these two decided that the best way to fend of them bad commies was to extend home ownership, by hook or by crook.

The resulting debt burden plus derivatives bungle will now have to be soaked up in the ensuing globalising process...it will as well as there is vast capacity for accumulation.
Quoting Squeeze
Both you and Exodus make valid points, Thatcher followed the Milton Friedman doctrine; trickle up economics that was a cruel joke given they (Thatcher & Reagan) described it as trickle down. Friedman believed every institution would be better if given over to private enterprise.
Friedman was simply articulating a fundamental force in capital. Call it a contradiction if you will in a world still used to state mercantilism.

However my point was that this crisis is a regional issue harking back to a time when a still young capitalism was fearful, and not any serious risk to the overall process of accumulation which has moved beyond nationalism and is now global (in the constant search for markets.). As traders we can use this to our advantage rather than constantly fretting as to whether the bogeyman is around the corner. We have many decades of robust capitalism (IMHO), bar the troughs between the bubbles.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  •  Guest
  • | IP XX.XXX.91.222
Dow trumps Euro news...100+ point rally = buy euro!
Quoting realjumper
This whole Cyprus 'rescue package' is a joke.....completely mishandled by incompetent idiots. If the EU bureaucrats want to kill Cyprus, they're going the right way about it. Muppets
That's exactly what the rescue package is all about, destroying Cyprus reputation as a tax heaven. So, that Money can kick back into save banks such as Germany and England ! Problem is , Cyprus didn't play the bankruptcy card very well...
"It's the Margin, Stupid."
Quoting Vachus
That's exactly what the rescue package is all about, destroying Cyprus reputation as a tax heaven. So, that Money can kick back into save banks such as Germany and England ! Problem is , Cyprus didn't play the bankruptcy card very well...
Cyprus is an extension of London and Germany does not do financial servicxes, it makes widgets.

Merkel's style is based around quaint outdated ideas of thrift whereas Cyrpus needs to have its debts restructured with debt funding (it needs time) so as it may remain a node in the capital conduit. So she is basically doing more damage to a mechanism her BMW exports depend on. Sooner she goes, the better.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
You need to up your game and dyor, Friedman's policies were forcibly adopted by many countries with dictators at the helm, he had a near perfect legacy of failure with his attempts to introduce a radical re organisation of the welfare state in the USA. His Chicago school doctrine was adored by political leaders who saw a finishing line in sight for themselves whereby they could outrageously enrich themselves (so subtly that electorates were none the wiser) has provided incredibly damaging divisions in society wherever introduced. Friedman is one of the most poisonous economists to have infiltrated high office.

Your reference to the current malaise being regional yes it is, it's a Western Hemisphere catastrophe. As for taking advantage I do, most days. This quarter has been spectacular, so far so good. I disagree wrt your contention concerning decades of good growth, the model of buying growth through the creation of disproportionate amounts of debt is a failed exercise.


Quoting traider
Friedman was simply articulating a fundamental force in capital. Call it a contradiction if you will in a world still used to state mercantilism.

However my point was that this crisis is a regional issue harking back to a time when a still young capitalism was fearful, and not any serious risk to the overall process of accumulation which has moved beyond nationalism and is now global (in the constant search for markets.). As traders we can use this to our advantage rather than constantly fretting as to whether the bogeyman is around the corner....
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  •  Guest
  • | IP XX.XXX.91.222
The simple fact that the euro didn't sell off today despite all the negative news still coming out just leads me to believe a rebound north is coming.
Quoting Spreadbetter
You need to up your game and dyor, Friedman's policies were forcibly adopted by many countries with dictators at the helm, he had a near perfect legacy of failure with his attempts to introduce a radical re organisation of the welfare state in the USA. His Chicago school doctrine was adored by political leaders who saw a finishing line in sight for themselves whereby they could outrageously enrich themselves (so subtly that electorates were none the wiser) has provided incredibly damaging divisions in society wherever introduced. Friedman is one...
Well you are entitled to your opinion. However, Friedman merely articulated what has been underway since the rise of capital...globalism (withering away of the state). It may be advanced by democrats, dictators, Nazis, war, leaders for change such as Obama, strange and bizzare spectacles as Maoists on a sharp U turn or other communists, you name them, they all have a part to play....but advance will capital's unfettering.

In between the various bubbes that will result will be downturns which will invariably be accompanied by chants of end times.

This will not result until capital exhausted accumulative capacity on this globe and there are no signs yet of that notwithstanding this regional crisis;
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  •  Guest
  • | IP XXX.XXX.47.79
This is very sad. For whatever reason, those depositors can only look at their money being taken away by the institution they TRUST
Quoting Guest
The simple fact that the euro didn't sell off today despite all the negative news still coming out just leads me to believe a rebound north is coming.
To my understanding, the 'negative news' is overblown. As I had stated earlier, Cyprus is a microscopic fly in the bigger scheme of things. There is simply no question of what happened in Cyprus, happening elsewhere, regardless of the bumbling by the 'idiocrats', as I call them.

And yes, to your point, I think a rally northwards in EUR/USD is almost upon us.
Quoting Guest
This is very sad. For whatever reason, those depositors can only look at their money being taken away by the institution they TRUST
It is a sad thing indeed, especially within the EU which you would have thought was a little more up to the mark. But as for markets in general, many savvy investors will take a lesson from this....make sure you are covered....and don't rely on a territory simply because it has a long history of being "developed". This will have benefits for the new emerging blocs.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
very bad news 80% cut why they don't take it all this is stealing i think .i think a revolution will happen in Europe if this continued out .
focus while relaxed to see better
No body wants to buy EUR ." THIS is the REVOLUTION"
There is very little benefit in Cyprus staying in the Euro, this deal will result in a run on the Bank by any saver not living in Cyprus, why would you leave your money their when this deal does not stop Cyprus from going bankrupt it just delays it.

They should go back to their old currency and print enough of it to cover all their saves deposits and any debts they have, true the currency will not be worth a great deal, but they will be in control and tourism, which will be their main GDP revenue (because they can forget banking after this deal) will benefit greatly from a weak currency.
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
This is not haircut, this is robbery. Imagine I put (lend) money to somebody, and they say they only have 20% to give back. Well, I am not getting into the issue. But this is insane and uncivilized.
Quoting frx_trader
This is not haircut, this is robbery. Imagine I put (lend) money to somebody, and they say they only have 20% to give back. Well, I am not getting into the issue. But this is insane and uncivilized.
The problem is the banks do not have 100% of the depositors money, they may only be liquid to 10/40% the rest of the savers money went to fund loans such as Greece (which the Germans asked Cyprus to do rather than use their own Euros) So when Greece got the bailout it cost Cyprus banks and thus in turn their savers have helped bailout Greece.
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
Quoting frx_trader
This is not haircut, this is robbery. Imagine I put (lend) money to somebody, and they say they only have 20% to give back. Well, I am not getting into the issue. But this is insane and uncivilized.
Whichever way you look at it, sovereign bankruptcy is always paid out of someone else's pockets. For example, here in New Zealand, insured depositors were paid out of the fiscal purse (taxes) when a local financial services provider went belly up. Its just the nature of the beast.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
Quoting Plofkip
that's not a haircut, that's a body cut
best comment of the year
Quoting Plofkip
that's not a haircut, that's a body cut
hahaha........you are funny man!
Quoting traider
Whichever way you look at it, sovereign bankruptcy is always paid out of someone else's pockets. For example, here in New Zealand, insured depositors were paid out of the fiscal purse (taxes) when a local financial services provider went belly up. Its just the nature of the beast.
Do these Banks belong to the state? Iceland just let their Banks go to the wall
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
Quoting Robot Trader
The problem is the banks do not have 100% of the depositors money, they may only be liquid to 10/40% the rest of the savers money went to fund loans such as Greece (which the Germans asked Cyprus to do rather than use their own Euros) So when Greece got the bailout it cost Cyprus banks and thus in turn their savers have helped bailout Greece.

This is too complicated for me. If I trust someone and I put money into their hand, I am expecting they respect my trust. At least they can write an IOU and when to return my money. They can go to someone else that will lend them money. If there is no one, then and so on.
Quoting traider
Whichever way you look at it, sovereign bankruptcy is always paid out of someone else's pockets. For example, here in New Zealand, insured depositors were paid out of the fiscal purse (taxes) when a local financial services provider went belly up. Its just the nature of the beast.
I know somebody has to pay. But the burden must be shared. I still don't get it and never will. If this is the way financial systems operate, then nothing I can say. Except a robber is a better person. At least the robber will go to jail for robbery, and he is responsible for it. This is irresponsible.
It depends on the state and the role of its financial services sector. Cyprus is in a curious position being a semi-colony of the UK and its links with London. In contrast, Icelands banks were preipheral to the global conduit for capital so it was on the fringes and dispensable..

Thr damage to trust were Cyprus, as a node in the conduit of global capital, to be seen to be acting vengefully, would be incalculable. As it is, investors in the recesses of their minds can explain this away as being a loss to the uninsured and continue with the status que, albeit ensuring that they are always covered.

These issues will have been discussed at negotioations, especially by the Brits and Americans.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
Think of it as the lesser of evils. Had the Cypriots establised a vengeful precedent vis a vis banks rather than seen to be looking for soft money to pay its debts, who would trust banks (Merkel did not think this through). No one. Liquidity would disappear and nothing would work, not even your desktop trading platform., As it is you can grumble but continue trading.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
Quoting traider
It depends on the state and the role of its financial services sector. Cyprus is in a curious position being a semi-colony of the UK and its links with London. In contrast, Icelands banks were preipheral to the global conduit for capital so it was on the fringes and dispensable..

Thr damage to trust were Cyprus, as a node in the conduit of global capital, to be seen to be acting vengefully, would be incalculable. As it is, investors in the recesses of their minds can explain this away as being a loss to the uninsured and continue with the status...
The damage from this deal will not be forgotten by depositors, so Cyprus needs to look at other ways to get back the GDP lost through this deal, because its Banking sector can no longer deliver at anything like the levels it did, hence my earlier post regarding returning to their own currency and tourism.
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
Quoting frx_trader
I know somebody has to pay. But the burden must be shared. I still don't get it and never will. If this is the way financial systems operate, then nothing I can say. Except a robber is a better person. At least the robber will go to jail for robbery, and he is responsible for it. This is irresponsible.
Hay at least a Robber has the decency to ware a mask when he takes your money, these guys ware suits
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
Quoting Plofkip
that's not a haircut, that's a body cut

what will be left if 80% is gone from the account. these fools don't understand the hardship people have to go through for earning that money.
Quoting Robot Trader
The damage from this deal will not be forgotten by depositors, so Cyprus needs to look at other ways to get back the GDP lost through this deal, because its Banking sector can no longer deliver at anything like the levels it did, hence my earlier post regarding returning to their own currency and tourism.
I'm not so sure. I see this more as a battle (by the Brits and Americans) to move the EU beyond the sort of thinking that is dominated by Germany and France. Listen, in the next 10 years or so, retail trading will be a massive form of self employment in the West (with varying degrees of success.) and these are early days as financial services take over more and more of our lives. We are just gonna have to get used to be proactive in protecting our interests. The state isn't going to do that.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
LOL, from 10% to 20 to 25 to 30 to 40 to 80, I wonder if today's number is going to be 160%.
Quoting IndigoPingvi
LOL, from 10% to 20 to 25 to 30 to 40 to 80, I wonder if today's number is going to be 160%.
I think the higher numbers reflects targeting, whereas previously they were being asked to cast the net more indiscriminately.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
...I'm seriously thinking of keeping my money under the bed like my old folks.....cant trust Bank anymore....maybe bcos of phobia....LOL
Quoting traider
I think the higher numbers reflects targeting, whereas previously they were being asked to cast the net more indiscriminately.
Of course, in order not to spread panic. But I suspect that money run had something to do with it as well (remember that London branch is opened all this time while Cyprius banks are closed, and there is NO restriction on withdraw). So I do expect 100% will be taken (of what is being left).

People in Slovenia are withdrawing their money from the banks (at least this is what they say on forums), but we are not going to be next in line for 'troika', situation is nowhere close to this. Italy or Spain maybe next?
Quoting IndigoPingvi
Of course, in order not to spread panic. But I suspect that money run had something to do with it as well (remember that London branch is opened all this time while Cyprius banks are closed, and there is NO restriction on withdraw). So I do expect 100% will be taken (of what is being left).

People in Slovenia are withdrawing their money from the banks (at least this is what they say on forums), but we are not going to be next in line for 'troika', situation is nowhere close to this. Italy or Spain maybe next?
Ahh, but you have to remember that banks are indispensable...we need mortgages after all, and credit to buy our rubbish from China, that other paradox in this global system. Punters may take their money out of the system this week and next, but memories are short, shopping therapy addictive and we will be back to BAU after a wee while.

On the other hand, if they had really spooked the markets Depression style, we would have been looking at dire consequences in a stroke.

This is all about management and as a trader, I can't quibble. Now, as a political animal, thats another manner. But I don't come on here to confuse with my political invective...I'm here to help my trading brothers make sense of this mess so as we can all go away and trade for a living.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
Quoting surewin
...I'm seriously thinking of keeping my money under the bed like my old folks.....cant trust Bank anymore....maybe bcos of phobia....LOL
Errrr. Do you trade?
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  •  Guest
  • | IP XX.XX.43.193
This is Germany trying to get revenge against Russia for world war 2. problem is that there is British money involved as well. gonna be interesting. Cyprus is a puppet.
Cyprus's failure began with the collapse of Greece, its curious how you fail to understand the nature of contagion. The size of the Cyprus failure is not irrelevant, the fact that such a small failed state could cause such chaos is highly relevant given that it reveals the domino affect that exists in the Euro zone. That affect suggests that it is highly likely that one of the PIIGS or another EU member could find itself in a similar position to Cyprus and depositors (not bond holders or shareholders) once again suffer disproportionately.

Quoting karmacola
As I had stated earlier, Cyprus is a microscopic fly in the bigger scheme of things. There is simply no question of what happened in Cyprus, happening elsewhere
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
many forextraders also have an account at cyprus. large sum of platforms are located at cyprus.
I think you'll find that many brokers registered office is in Cyprus (for tax reasons), but not much else.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
What do you expect when you have a bunch of power hungry, greedy politicians flying
the plane? That plane will eventually crash & burn taking all onboard with them.

This can & most likely will happen in every country in the coming months.

Should we be surprised? NO. Last one out please turn out the lights.
Quoting acetrader
What do you expect when you have a bunch of power hungry, greedy politicians flying
the plane? That plane will eventually crash & burn taking all onboard with them.

This can & most likely will happen in every country in the coming months.

Should we be surprised? NO. Last one out please turn out the lights.
Hahahaha. These outcomes are natural to the act of accumulation. You have to lack a conscience somewhat to play in this game. Otherwise, the contradictions would drive you crazy.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
That's nonsense, you don't have to be a sociopath and or psychopath or "lack conscience" to take a considerable amount from the markets, in fact and having a fuller understanding of the market mechanism and it's impact from the top of the food chain to the bottom is an advantage. Similarly developing a wider intellectual curiosity on many economic subjects is essential.



Quoting traider
Hahahaha. These outcomes are natural to the act of accumulation. You have to lack a conscience somewhat to play in this game. Otherwise, the contradictions would drive you crazy.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
Let's not miss the wider issue; if and when capital controls are established and a new normal ensues Cyprus will be finished as a commercial enterprise were trading is concerned. It will never be a refuge for flight money again, unemployment will spike further and many of the trading off shoots, such as Leverate who create copy trading software, will be dragged down with the lack of business. The damage is done, many traders will simply close their accounts and move elsewhere irrespective of their individual accounts remaining untouched.



Quoting realjumper
I think you'll find that many brokers registered office is in Cyprus (for tax reasons), but not much else.
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
Quoting Spreadbetter
Let's not miss the wider issue; if and when capital controls are established and a new normal ensues Cyprus will be finished as a commercial enterprise were trading is concerned. It will never be a refuge for flight money again, unemployment will spike further and many of the trading off shoots, such as Leverate who create copy trading software, will be dragged down with the lack of business. The damage is done, many traders will simply close their accounts and move elsewhere irrespective of their individual accounts remaining untouched.
I agree. Also, if I held savings in Any European bank, I would withdraw it all as soon as I could, keep just enough to ensure my own liquidity, and deposit the bulk in HSBC after converting to HK dollars. Capital controls may slow that down some but surely it would get done. I have little more faith in US banks and hold only what I need in cash. The western world is a collection of banana republics.
Dialogue at the Barber shop in Cyprus:

Barber:
"Hello. Have a seat in my chair. How much do you want me to take off the top?"

Customer:
"Just trim it a little."

Barber:
"I am very sorry. I can cut off your head only."
“Do not sell morning weakness in the strong uptrend” – old Sumer prov
...Lucky I did not open a trading account with Cyprus broker, otherwise my money may also be in trouble water.....
How much money is really left in these banks, based on the info in this link I cannot see any saver willing to risk leaving their money in these banks.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-27/furious-cyprus-begins-investigating-who-breached-capital-controls
Some people say I'm lucky, but the more I practice the luckier I get
Your money probably wouldn't be in danger but we assume enough risks in this profession without worrying wrt the safety of your funds. Cyprus is finished as an international banking centre and that will eventually impact on brokers; some may die quickly some may stay on respirator for a while, but without the oxygen of new business they will fail. Incidentally keep a weather eye on ICAP they'll divulge the truth wrt trading numbers. Their shares fell circa 8% this morning due to lack of trading.

Quoting surewin
...Lucky I did not open a trading account with Cyprus broker, otherwise my money may also be in trouble water.....
"The meek shall inherit the earth.." Yeah right, good luck with that shit..
  • New Comment
  •  Guest
  • | IP X.XXX.226.14
Join FF
  • Story Stats
  • Posted: Mar 26, 2013 5:14pm
  • Submitted by:
     Newsstand
    Category: Low Impact Breaking News
    Comments: 60  /  Views: 8,026